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New KDF Ship Line?
majesticmsfc
Member Posts: 1,401 Arc User
Back on the 2nd Anniversary of STO, the KDF side was awarded with the Bortas class which later was re-released as the Bortasqu'. It was to go along side the new Federation Odyssey class. But lets face it, while a beautiful design it's not what we hopped. It seems a lot of Fan fans don't like it, it's a brick a slow turning brick.
We are told they the KDF ships don't sell, that they don't have time to make models and such for the KDF etc. Well when ships like this are released is it any wonder? I recommend that we are due for a flagship(s) that live up to the KDF population expectations while remaining balanced. We don't want god ships, we want new fun and competitive vessels.
So we're told they don't have the time to spend on the KDF faction, yet they found the time to produce 3 new ships for season 6. These designs are great looking designs that could be re-purposed for players as perhaps a new line of flagships or heavy battlecruisers.
http://www.stowiki.org/Warbarge_Dreadnought
http://www.stowiki.org/Balaur_Dreadnought
http://www.stowiki.org/Ravager_Dreadnought
I would like to suggest to the Dev's and KDF Fan community that these models which seems very well done be worked in and released as C-store ships for the KDF. I for one would love some new ships and half the work is already done as they are already in-game. I feel that the current NPC ships for the Gorn, Orions and Nausicaans should be added as playable ships, including the three linked above. It would give us KDF players something new and bring in more money for Cryptic, that's got to be a win-win.
So my fellow warriors of the empire and any Dev's who wish to respond, what do you think?
We are told they the KDF ships don't sell, that they don't have time to make models and such for the KDF etc. Well when ships like this are released is it any wonder? I recommend that we are due for a flagship(s) that live up to the KDF population expectations while remaining balanced. We don't want god ships, we want new fun and competitive vessels.
So we're told they don't have the time to spend on the KDF faction, yet they found the time to produce 3 new ships for season 6. These designs are great looking designs that could be re-purposed for players as perhaps a new line of flagships or heavy battlecruisers.
http://www.stowiki.org/Warbarge_Dreadnought
http://www.stowiki.org/Balaur_Dreadnought
http://www.stowiki.org/Ravager_Dreadnought
I would like to suggest to the Dev's and KDF Fan community that these models which seems very well done be worked in and released as C-store ships for the KDF. I for one would love some new ships and half the work is already done as they are already in-game. I feel that the current NPC ships for the Gorn, Orions and Nausicaans should be added as playable ships, including the three linked above. It would give us KDF players something new and bring in more money for Cryptic, that's got to be a win-win.
So my fellow warriors of the empire and any Dev's who wish to respond, what do you think?
Support the Game by Supporting the KDF, equality and uniqueness for all factions!
Post edited by majesticmsfc on
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I do like your ship ideas though, but it would be nice to see an escort type carrier for the KDF too.
The possibility also exists to add Fek'lhri ships as well. We already have one and there are numerous others:
http://www.stowiki.org/Drek%27Hi_Dreadnought
http://www.stowiki.org/K%27Norr_Escort
http://www.stowiki.org/Fer%27Jai_Frigate
http://www.stowiki.org/S%27Kul_Fighter
The Raptor class ships are not pointless, they are the KDF's escort class of ship, your thinking of it being pointless is being very narrow minded in regards to them.
The bops do ~not~ need to be buffed to fill a hybrid role, they are perfect for what they are, also, what they are is a raider, not an escort. and I'm sorry, but if can't deal with a single fed escort in your bop, then you lack the ability, mindset, skills, and loadout to effectively use a bop. Small hint, you don't come at any ship head on in a bop, you use cloak to get behind them, or to your favoured attack vector, same with the raptor, and battle cruiser.
As for those ships in the links, sure, they would be interesting ships to use, but they would either be put in at lower tiers, or need a lot of work to get them to t5 standards.
No need to lecture me on using the BoP, I've been blowing the TRIBBLE out of enemies in Ker'rat with just that tactic for the past 2 weeks. . .escorts, cruisers, and science ships. I've also been mutilated by competent escort pilots that can out-tank and out-DPS me, or I've been flattened by fed balls before I can scurry on out of the area.
Can it do that science role with a Tactical captain that's been specc'd for another role? I, unlike some elite players, don't apparently respec my characters every week. I've got it specc'd for hit-and-run ambushing, and it's staying there. That means it can be swatted like a damn fly if the enemy finds so much as a 1-2 second gap between Tac Teams/RSP. It's ridiculous. Even a Federation Escort can last the gaps between Tac Team/RSP buffs, enough to stay in the fight.
Exactly.
We KDF have been set aside again so Cryptic could focus on more pressing concerns, like endgame, but we where not forgotten or left to die.
Oddly enough rumor from Vegas says we KDF fans are desired to continue our campaign for completion so they changes we desire can be pushed and proven needed to the hihher ups.
R.I.P
If you look at the non-playable of the other races in the KDF We don't really need Klingon type ships. Use the other races that is in KDF. There is plenty to use from that.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
They'll have to pry my Qin from my cold, dead hands.
STO Forum member since before February 2010.
STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link
I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
Ambushes and destroys crusty8mac from decloak and snatches the Qin from his cold, dead hands
It's not ridiculous that a fed escort can survive longer, it ~is~ an escort, it has more hull, more shields than a bop. Expecting to survive every encounter with a bop IS ridiculous, asking for a bop that can survive every encounter is not just ridiculous it's also ludicrous, and asking for it to be buffed is, I'm sorry to say, pure lunacy.
To me, from a tactical perspective, bops are pretty much bang on the money, a highly agile ship like a fighter, capable of delivering devastating amounts of damage in a very small time frame, and disappearing out of sight/weapons range to set up for the next attack, whilst at the same time not able to withstand an attack from either the target, or the targets allies.
All players know a bop is a soft, high dmg target, and there fore, it will be targeted and attacked until it's dead and not a threat. If you don't like that fact, go back to the shipyard and buy yourself a raptor or a battle cruiser. Just stop asking for something to be changed because 1 aspect of it doesn't fit your ideal of what it should be.
Just some pointers to point out most of any damage you will take during the recloaking integration is kinetic damage using most any skill will help with keeping you alive during that transition the 2 skills in particular are the evasive manuevars and brace for impact... they will give defense and the other kinetic damage resistance. The main purpose tho is a sneak attack get just close enough behind the target where they cant see you while cloaked and then decloak and open fire. The b'rels advantage is that it can prebuff a lot of skills other buffs have greyed out while cloaked. Although there are still many bugs that hinder using the b'rel I still enjoy it.
First they need to make the raptors actually on par with the Fed escorts. Then it might be worth flying 'em around in PVP. Until then, I'd just get ripped to pieces by any competent escort pilot (believe me, I've given it a try), due to the several flaws in the raptor design. At this point in time, raptors are only really effective in PVE and whenever you're fighting someone incompetent in PVP.
^^ +1
I get that special feeling feeling when crushing an enemy with a ship that he can see, don't know if I'm the kinda guy who prefers to hide behind a cloak while knifing my opponent in the back.
...Got that feeling the first time I killed a bug.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
Rally us common KDFers, Roach ... I'll pass out the pitch forks and torches as we hold a good ole fashion KDF pep rally.
Seriously ... It is good to rally us together behind the cause of more KDF content ... period.
U.S.S. Maelstrom, NCC-71417 (Constitution III-class/flagship) --- Fleet Admiral Hauk' --|-- Dahar Master Hauk --- I.K.S. qu'In 'an bortaS (D7-class / flagship)
This^^^. The Raptor only falls short in its turn pivot. Takes way too long for that nose to travel to target.
All Escorts out turn it and even the Armitage can out turn it.
Thats sad and needs to be addresed, or they can make the Raptor the first 5/2 weapons set up to compensate.
Until one other or the other is done, the KDF has a subpar version of an escort compared to every other escort in game.
R.I.P
However, looking solely at the lvl 40 Qin raptor, it has the weapon hard points on par with any other t4 and t5 escort. The base turn rate is on par with the same escorts, as is hull and shields, what it has over the same escorts is: cloak, yes I know just standard cloak, but cloak none the less, the ability to load, 2 tac teams, 2 attack patterns of your choice, 2 cannon skills of your choice and 2 torpedo skills of your choice, while still having the essential hull and shield heals.
Yes I am aware that there are T5 fed escorts that can do the same, but unless your P2P your going to be paying for them, either via dil grind or real cold hard cash, any KDF at lvl 40 can pick up the Qin/Birok raptor for free.
We all need to stop doing direct comparisons of KDF ships to fed ships, they are not meant to be mirror images of each other, they are meant to have quirks and differences. As a classic example, the ME 109 and Spitfire from WW II, the Spitfire had the advantage in guns, the 109 had the advantage of being able to out turn it by going inverted due to fuel injection, yet both were fighters.
Thanks I too hope we see them and they are given justice in their stats etc. Lets hope the Dev's are watching this thread and section.
When it comes to 'escorts', turning rate is everything. If the Raptors are out-turned by all other escort-level ships, then what's the point? They can and will be made mincemeat in the PVP arenas and in Ker'rat the majority of the time. If you can't turn your ship about to AIM at the enemy, then you're just a sitting duck that can't tank enough to deal with being a sitting duck.
It works fine against cruisers and against clumsy PVE enemies. But it needs to be able to properly fight against Fed escorts in order to be worth flying regularly.
Oh, and you can't really 'work around' the turn point disadvantage. . .not easily, at least. I literally put 3 RCS consoles on my Qin, and it was still out-turned by the escorts it came across, especially those cursed Defiants. They just circle you and make you dizzy trying to keep up. I didn't try any EPtE or Aux-to-Dampeners or any of the other movement-boosting skills (other than Pattern Omega), because there isn't ROOM for those things, not if you want to retain a semblance of tanking skill.
Did you actually read my post? or just the first sentence that I posted?
As for turn rate, I said it was possible, I did not say it would be easy.
The Defiant can out turn you ~because~ it has a high base turn rate than a Qin, that is to be expected regardless of what you do, my bop can out turn any escort in the game for that fact alone.
And to clarify part of my post, the kdf escorts and the fed escorts come from 2 different factions with different outlooks on what the ships should and shouldn't do, and therefore they ~should~ be different in more than just appearance.
IMO, this is just another way towards asking for KDF to be streamlined for integration into the federation, KDF as a whole is different, the ships reflect that difference and present a challenge to any player attempting to get the best result out of any given ship.
You got those two mixed up, the canons on the 109 were feared and indeed canon equiped Spit's were experimented on during the Battle of Britain, but the issues weren't ironed out until after the battle and were finally produced from the Mk VB onwards...
The issue with the Merlin engine centered around the gravity feed, the engine would cut out under negative g's (although this was later at least partially solved), of course if you wished to dive you could do half roll and therebye end up inverted so when you pull back you pull positive G's.
The turning and roll rate characteristics of the Spitfire are legendary, although there still seems to be some debate over this even to this day, but the roll rate of the Spitfire was defiantly superior.
Yes, your main point is still spot on, both were equally well matched and as always it comes down to the pilot, which was also exemplified by Chuck Yeager when he won two mock dogfights, once in a Mig 15 vs F-86 Sabre, and again in the Sabre vs Mig-15
I agree a 1/1 release would be good, even a 1/2 would be okay, but it seems that the Federation have gotten 3 probably be 4 or even 5 before the KDF gets one. We all know the Vesta will probably be the next ship released.
The KDF just needs more content and work done on it, plain and simple.
And you're ignoring the fact that if an 'escort' is out-turned by every other effing escort on the opposing side, without decent tanking ability to compensate, then there's really no friggin point in flying said escort. . .at least, not in competitive PVP against people who know what they're doing.
I know the BoP can out-turn pretty much every other ship in the game with the occasional exception of the Defiant and the Jem'hadar bug. And guess what? It sacrifices hullpoints, a tac console, a 3rd rear weapon slot, and overall survivability to get that. Meanwhile, an effing Defiant can at least come close to matching the turn rate, and seems to have higher overall survivability and definitely has higher DPS. . .AND it has a cloak. It's what the raptors SHOULD be, but aren't.
I'm not saying make raptors identical to fed escorts, though it would be hard to claim they're a whole lot different, given the way STO's ship equipping system is set up. I'm saying make them COMPETITIVE, so that you can fly the darn things in a decent PVP match without being turned into mincemeat by every escort on the map. I have to try doing it in a BoP, because the raptor can't keep up turn-rate wise.
Oh, and don't give me that BS about 'oh, it won't be easy to make it turn properly, but it's possible'. I know it's possible (as I clearly explained). . .but at the expense of any pretense towards survivability on the part of the raptor, because they have to devote 1-2 of their engineering slots towards this nonsense.
This is a textbook example of missing the point.
Nobody here asks for ships to be identical.
Nobody asked to be integrated into the Federation.
What people ask is:
"why are Klingon Raptors at best comparable in some parts and certainly inferior in others?"
Because last time I checked "balance" is achieved by giving a unit (as a general term) a certain number of characteristics with a certain number of advantages and disadvantages that should even each other out.
In this case we have Raptors with the same strengths as their Federation counterparts and an additional weakness.
Why the heck is this weakness not compensated by something (for example by fixing the turn axis)?
That's the point you're missing.
I use twin ApO to get the turn boost up as much as possible or I sacrifice armor for RCS consoles and I always use my impulse engine speed to make for as tight a turn as possible. I even carry Engine batteries to use to get as much turn as possible becuase in a dog fight turning is key to victory.
My complaint about the Raptor is that in all respects it is a copy paste of the Defiant-R and a poorer shadow of the other fed escorts that gains nothing to call its on unique flavor. Not even Cloaking.
If the vessel is not to be a dog fighter or scrapper, with the ability to turn tight and swiftly to keep its opponent always in its sights, then it need to be the Brute or warrior of the line rushing headlong into the face of battle with guns blazzing, ready to come around for another pass to decimate any foes left standing from its first onslaught.
I already experience the need to do wide sweeping turns to get those passes down, especially with the vessels long nose travel. Unfortunately the Raptor does not fall into iether description due to this and is niether scrapper or brute.
If the turn pivot is not to be addressed and one must keep the long nose travel to keep the Raptor different from the fed escort designs then its time the Raptor had a strictly KDF design of mostly forward weapons points.
Give it a 5/2 set-up weapons set-up so the charge it has to make is more inline with how it has to be flown. The slower turning brute to the faster turning fed scrappers. No otehr change would ever be needed.
R.I.P
6/1
^.^