Last thing to add here, when we do get the Ambassador at last, with or without the Niagara skin option, I hope they give us a frikking bridge pack for it! They've certainly had enough time to make an Ambassador bridge to go with the Ambassador hull model given how they've been dragging their feet on this ship for the last two years.
Last thing to add here, when we do get the Ambassador at last, with or without the Niagara skin option, I hope they give us a frikking bridge pack for it! They've certainly had enough time to make an Ambassador bridge to go with the Ambassador hull model given how they've been dragging their feet on this ship for the last two years.
Also....add to that list an Ambassador costume (TNG: Yesterday's Enterprise style)
even when the reliant's nacelle exploded, the underside of the ship didn't have any viable hull breach from it, just looked kinda scorched. nacelle detonation on a connie would more likely damage its impulse engine if it damages anything.
Are you kidding, there is more warp nacelle mass in a closer proximity to the miranda impulse engines than there is on the connie refit. But thats not even the point, its all about the internal problems and explosions nacelle destruction creates. The bridge of the enterprise d was on fire in about a minute, and its nacelles looked better than the reliants. Furthermore, when enterprise phasers destroyed a giant chunk of the reliants nacelle, there was a giant explosion in the reliants engineering section, where a vertical warp core is shown. The longer pylons give a better chance to isolate the damage with bulk heads, force fields, or just plain explosions running out of juice.
Theres a chance Checkov blew the nacelle off to save the reliant from total destruction.
3 twice huh? that had more to do with shot placement, and every time the connie fired 2 beams were basically hitting the same place. the miranda has fore AND aft torp launchers, the same number of saucer banks, and larger emitters in the corner of its role bars. the connie is out gunned, it was kahn's inexperience let kirk get the better of him.
This really says nothing other than that the reliant has better torpedo coverage. Thats nice and all, but the enterprise shots destroy whole chunks of miranda nacelle when multiple miranda hits only scar constitution nacelles (you don't even see where the enterprise hits the nacelles, the phasers hit the obstructed side). We can directly infer that connie phasers are more powerful since we now know the miranda class had a tiny warp core, phasers are powered directly by the warp core as established in TMP.
this has never been implied by me. there is every indication that its a close to home design
This comes back to the largest flaw in your argument. The miranda class is not just used for close to home missions, it is often deployed far out as well. Here is the proof. http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Miranda_class
There is no way a ship that so underperforms another could replace it in such large numbers when its job requirements are still so incredibly varied. Don't try to bring up the excelsior class again, the star fleet favored larger ships aspect defends the connie more than it does the reliant.
it has the same sensor package as the connie, they are a visible exterior feature :rolleyes: they likely canned the soyuz because those enhanced sensor's became obsolete equipment because of some packaging or tech break through, those arrays were its key design feature. or its was done away with because the cold war with the klingons was coming to an end, so a dedicated sensor/espionage boat wasn't needed.
Yeah there might have been some sort of tech breakthrough, like the sensor package on the miranda varient named Saratoga. You might recognize the name.
You are so determined to defend CBS or the devs decision to not include a tier 5 connie that you will say anything.
On a side note, sorry for assisting an off topic discussion, im pretty much done after this, and I really want the ambassador class in game too.
You know what drunkshoot, you are just plain wrong, on so many levels.
your biased opinion does not trump my more objective observation of the canon facts. there is also no authority or proof to prove any one, including me, 100% right.
Are you kidding, there is more warp nacelle mass in a closer proximity to the miranda impulse engines than there is on the connie refit. But thats not even the point, its all about the internal problems and explosions nacelle destruction creates. The bridge of the enterprise d was on fire in about a minute, and its nacelles looked better than the reliants. Furthermore, when enterprise phasers destroyed a giant chunk of the reliants nacelle, there was a giant explosion in the reliants engineering section, where a vertical warp core is shown. The longer pylons give a better chance to isolate the damage with bulk heads, force fields, or just plain explosions running out of juice.
Theres a chance Checkov blew the nacelle off to save the reliant from total destruction.
This really says nothing other than that the reliant has better torpedo coverage. Thats nice and all, but the enterprise shots destroy whole chunks of miranda nacelle when multiple miranda hits only scar constitution nacelles (you don't even see where the enterprise hits the nacelles, the phasers hit the obstructed side). We can directly infer that connie phasers are more powerful since we now know the miranda class had a tiny warp core, phasers are powered directly by the warp core as established in TMP.
jeez the reliant fight again. first shots fired were by the reliant, shooting to disable. destroying the ship at that point was not kahns objective, or he would have fired a full spread of torpedoes and all the phaser banks that were in the forward arc before the enterprise got its shields up. it no doubt had enough firepower to do in the enterprise under those conditions easily. if it were the revers a connie could have proboly done the same back as well.
with just a few shots from battery power they managed to hit the engenering section of the reliant, dealing system wide damage, not just knocking out power like the reliant's shots were meant to do. his shields were also brought down so he then withdrew at that point. in the nebula they hit the weak point grill assembly on the nacelle, blasting the TRIBBLE out of it. just about any hit like that there looks pretty devastating. i never got the feel that 1 ship had significantly more firepower then the other, but the miranda certainly had superior torpedo capacity. the miranda always seemed like a heavily armed bulldog for border patrolling that could also just as easily be used as a science ship.
theres likely a capacitor of some kind between the warp core and the phaser banks, not a strait tap, that would be 1 hell of a power draw. for the first time the weapons are being powered by energy the warp core generates though. that wouldn't effect the output of the weapons, just the rate of fire and how many shots you had by how large and how long it takes for the capacitor to charge. so its arguable that a connie could have more dps, if that core tallness directly effects power output. the connie's battery powered shots were full power shots, they just had only a few of them, for example
This comes back to the largest flaw in your argument. The miranda class is not just used for close to home missions, it is often deployed far out as well. Here is the proof. http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Miranda_class
There is no way a ship that so underperforms another could replace it in such large numbers when its job requirements are still so incredibly varied. Don't try to bring up the excelsior class again, the star fleet favored larger ships aspect defends the connie more than it does the reliant.
memory alpha- "The mission profile of the Miranda-class varied from performing various scientific roles to conducting patrol duties."
close to home defense and scientific missions, not long range exploring. and again, the connie is not significantly larger. the volume of both ships is very similar, and the mirand doesn't have a good chunk of its volume taken up by a huge deflector dish and supplies for a 5 year trip into the unknown. the miranda has more usable interior space as a result. the miranda is simply optimized for close to home roles, wile the connie is not, so why keep it around when its not deep space exploration worthy anymore? when ever that was determined. the miranda will always be there doing a better job then a down rated connie could.
I wonder if the T5 Ambassador and the T5 Constitution would work as science ship (Ambassador) and escort (Connie) class ships.
Adding more cruisers is difficult, but sci ships and escorts could need another one or two. And since obviously those ships still/again in service would have to be refitted a lot, why not have them be refitted for a new role?
Well on the one hand the differentiation between larger science ships and cruisers with science missions in mind as it exists in STO is not applicable in Star Trek itself.
Look at the Nebula: she would have worked equally well in both functions and her first proposed stats were for a cruiser.
On the other hand one of rules stated by the folks at Cryptic regarding any "USS Enterprise-type class" is that it must be a cruiser.
So my guess is that's what we'll end up with whether one likes it or not.
Ah, but of course, these "Retrofits" would not be actually of the Ambassador or Constitution class, but of classes of their own... I mean, there is the Exeter, the Vesper, etc.
That one, by the way, has a beautiful skin, but obviously much too small for a T5 cruiser.
As an escort, however...
Now you're trying to get out of it with a technicality, one that has no precedence in this game either.
Even the Akira retrofit still has the designation "escort" in it.
Besides if for example the Ambassador skin is among the ship class' retrofit your proposal is not going to work since it would violate the CBS directive as well.
And let's not forget even the tiny (214m) K't'inga was pressed into the cruiser category.
I have to LOL at the whole Miranda argument going on. I mean come on, those ships were just cannon fodder for the Breen/Jem Hadar in the Dominion War. Was watching some DS9 on Netflix last night and that entire battle it's funny how many Mirandas get one shotted and pinwheel off the screen in flames.
hate to tell you, in ds9 everything but the defiant gets 1 shotted and whirls around before exploding. DS9 = wtf we need shields for?! The space battles in the dominion wars didnt really do any justice to any of the ships and defiant just had plot armor.
hate to tell you, in ds9 everything but the defiant gets 1 shotted and whirls around before exploding. DS9 = wtf we need shields for?! The space battles in the dominion wars didnt really do any justice to any of the ships and defiant just had plot armor.
pretty much. every ship in DS9 basically removed there shield generator
Comments
These links should provide a good shot of the Niagara.....
http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/14/13251/F_TNG_NIAGARA.jpg
http://images.wikia.com/stexpanded/images/7/7c/Niagara_Class.jpg
http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/7215/niagarawip5.jpg
Hope it works for everyone this time, not sure what's up with the first one it works for me when I click it here.
Beautiful picture!...would love to get Niagara with Ambassador...but I'm sure that's pressing my luck.
Also....add to that list an Ambassador costume (TNG: Yesterday's Enterprise style)
Its not your fault the class is so stinted in that category, but it is a flaw in your argument.
Are you kidding, there is more warp nacelle mass in a closer proximity to the miranda impulse engines than there is on the connie refit. But thats not even the point, its all about the internal problems and explosions nacelle destruction creates. The bridge of the enterprise d was on fire in about a minute, and its nacelles looked better than the reliants. Furthermore, when enterprise phasers destroyed a giant chunk of the reliants nacelle, there was a giant explosion in the reliants engineering section, where a vertical warp core is shown. The longer pylons give a better chance to isolate the damage with bulk heads, force fields, or just plain explosions running out of juice.
Theres a chance Checkov blew the nacelle off to save the reliant from total destruction.
This really says nothing other than that the reliant has better torpedo coverage. Thats nice and all, but the enterprise shots destroy whole chunks of miranda nacelle when multiple miranda hits only scar constitution nacelles (you don't even see where the enterprise hits the nacelles, the phasers hit the obstructed side). We can directly infer that connie phasers are more powerful since we now know the miranda class had a tiny warp core, phasers are powered directly by the warp core as established in TMP.
This comes back to the largest flaw in your argument. The miranda class is not just used for close to home missions, it is often deployed far out as well. Here is the proof.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Miranda_class
There is no way a ship that so underperforms another could replace it in such large numbers when its job requirements are still so incredibly varied. Don't try to bring up the excelsior class again, the star fleet favored larger ships aspect defends the connie more than it does the reliant.
Yeah there might have been some sort of tech breakthrough, like the sensor package on the miranda varient named Saratoga. You might recognize the name.
You are so determined to defend CBS or the devs decision to not include a tier 5 connie that you will say anything.
On a side note, sorry for assisting an off topic discussion, im pretty much done after this, and I really want the ambassador class in game too.
https://youtube.com/channel/UCJZ5FBJ9bFaZ6yAFiNpZiRQ/featured?view_as=subscriber
Twitter:
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your biased opinion does not trump my more objective observation of the canon facts. there is also no authority or proof to prove any one, including me, 100% right.
jeez the reliant fight again. first shots fired were by the reliant, shooting to disable. destroying the ship at that point was not kahns objective, or he would have fired a full spread of torpedoes and all the phaser banks that were in the forward arc before the enterprise got its shields up. it no doubt had enough firepower to do in the enterprise under those conditions easily. if it were the revers a connie could have proboly done the same back as well.
with just a few shots from battery power they managed to hit the engenering section of the reliant, dealing system wide damage, not just knocking out power like the reliant's shots were meant to do. his shields were also brought down so he then withdrew at that point. in the nebula they hit the weak point grill assembly on the nacelle, blasting the TRIBBLE out of it. just about any hit like that there looks pretty devastating. i never got the feel that 1 ship had significantly more firepower then the other, but the miranda certainly had superior torpedo capacity. the miranda always seemed like a heavily armed bulldog for border patrolling that could also just as easily be used as a science ship.
theres likely a capacitor of some kind between the warp core and the phaser banks, not a strait tap, that would be 1 hell of a power draw. for the first time the weapons are being powered by energy the warp core generates though. that wouldn't effect the output of the weapons, just the rate of fire and how many shots you had by how large and how long it takes for the capacitor to charge. so its arguable that a connie could have more dps, if that core tallness directly effects power output. the connie's battery powered shots were full power shots, they just had only a few of them, for example
memory alpha- "The mission profile of the Miranda-class varied from performing various scientific roles to conducting patrol duties."
close to home defense and scientific missions, not long range exploring. and again, the connie is not significantly larger. the volume of both ships is very similar, and the mirand doesn't have a good chunk of its volume taken up by a huge deflector dish and supplies for a 5 year trip into the unknown. the miranda has more usable interior space as a result. the miranda is simply optimized for close to home roles, wile the connie is not, so why keep it around when its not deep space exploration worthy anymore? when ever that was determined. the miranda will always be there doing a better job then a down rated connie could.
it tends to be the tier 5 connie fans that are willing to say anything, i just have to say were was it during the entire tng-voy run?
Well on the one hand the differentiation between larger science ships and cruisers with science missions in mind as it exists in STO is not applicable in Star Trek itself.
Look at the Nebula: she would have worked equally well in both functions and her first proposed stats were for a cruiser.
On the other hand one of rules stated by the folks at Cryptic regarding any "USS Enterprise-type class" is that it must be a cruiser.
So my guess is that's what we'll end up with whether one likes it or not.
Now you're trying to get out of it with a technicality, one that has no precedence in this game either.
Even the Akira retrofit still has the designation "escort" in it.
Besides if for example the Ambassador skin is among the ship class' retrofit your proposal is not going to work since it would violate the CBS directive as well.
And let's not forget even the tiny (214m) K't'inga was pressed into the cruiser category.
pretty much. every ship in DS9 basically removed there shield generator
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWi-pJLO2m4
in that video only the defiant and Lakota had shields and DS9... some times