You hate me, or people like me?
That seems extreme and very judgemental, do you know me personally? You hate me because my opinion is different to yours? How tolerant of you.
I could sit here and debate the ins and outs of it all but to be honest, it's not worth my time.
You've shown no maturity in this thread. You've made assumptions, been judgemental, insulting and rude.
On Topic: Don't like how the fleet you joined is being run, leave and make your own. Drama over!!
Yea, I hate apathetic people. Hate em. They are parasites that cause dysfunction in society. I didn't say a word about your opinion, I stated a reaction to your apathetic attitude, then I insinuated that you were either a tween or ignorant. Read it again if you have to. Tolerance is not something you should afford everyone. Intolerance isn't universally evil, that's stupid. Sorry I polarized you man, I felt your tude was unwarranted and I reacted. I don't want a flame war, I'm really sorry I reacted that way. You're right that I shouldn't judge you on one forum post.
wish there was a spectator mode for PvP's. Coliseum style,why not?
I really do feel for those who get the short end of the stick by the actions of a few, this shouldn't have a place anywhere, much less here, but it's a necessary evil that we all must deal with.
WELL IF THE JAPORI INCIDENT HAS TAUGHT ME ANYTHING, IT'S THAT MY EXISTENCE IS AN EXPLOIT. THANKS CRYPTIC.
IF YOU ARE READING MY SIG - THEN YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG
Thanks guy, except Johnny who for some reason thinks hijackings are subjective only to the hijacker. We'll see what we can do with tickets. If we all keep sending them maybe we'll at least get a response. He might calm down but I'm not holding my breath.
Hate to say it but - The person you guys should be upset with is the other Leader who gave this guy full Leadership rights back when he knew this guy had a 'history' as it were.
No one violated any rules and it wasn't Cryptic who made the mistake that lead to all this drama. Guild implosions happen (in 13 years of MMOing I have a nukmber of 'self-destruct' Guild stories for Guilds I was involved with - and in the end, the game developer's response was: "Sorry, he/she didn't break any rules, as he had permissions to make those changes...")
If Cryptic/PWE does something for you, great; but from past experience, I wouldn't be surprised if the response is something like the above. Your best bet is to take those willing to come, and start over - and make sure the person you pick as the Guild Leader is a little more stable - and keep it to the ONE ultimate GL. Guild drama sucks.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
So five of us had been running a 50 player fleet pretty amicably for about a year. One of our leaders had a temper tantrum (literally) and quit with all his characters. He has personal issues or whatever, I don't listen to his excuses anymore. Now, overnight, he came back, convinced one leader (who we are not happy with) that he was sorry and wanted to come back. He immediately demoted everyone but him and renamed his rank "god".
So, if I wasn't in danger of losing my fleet and starbase to a 40 year old man's fit of childish rage over a video game it would be funny.
What I need to know is do we have ANY recourse here? Would a GM help us with what is essentially a social issue? I feel like the next time I log on I'm gonna be fleetless with a rude message in my inbox.
help?
hate to be rude here but since he quit earlier and you all didnt really want him back but what gets me is the other leader he was able to convince that you all wasnt happy with, hate to say it all you got SOLed and if he was able to do that its just too bad because somehow he got all the power.
Hate to say it but - The person you guys should be upset with is the other Leader who gave this guy full Leadership rights back when he knew this guy had a 'history' as it were.
No one violated any rules and it wasn't Cryptic who made the mistake that lead to all this drama. Guild implosions happen (in 13 years of MMOing I have a nukmber of 'self-destruct' Guild stories for Guilds I was involved with - and in the end, the game developer's response was: "Sorry, he/she didn't break any rules, as he had permissions to make those changes...")
If Cryptic/PWE does something for you, great; but from past experience, I wouldn't be surprised if the response is something like the above. Your best bet is to take those willing to come, and start over - and make sure the person you pick as the Guild Leader is a little more stable - and keep it to the ONE ultimate GL. Guild drama sucks.
There are really that many people who think the OP basically deserves what he got? Boy I am glad I am not in a fleet with you people!!! Just because someone didn't break a rule doesn't change the fact that that someone just screwed a ton of people over. Thanks to starbases, "pack up and leave" isn't as easy a choice as it once was, especially considering how freaking expensive many of the base upgrades are.
I'd say try your luck with the gamemasters. If they are really "game masters" they should have the power to do something. Doesn't Cryptic/PWE basically reserve the right to do basically anything to you including kick you out of the game on a whim? Now, they might not actually ever go to that extent, but I don't see the harm in getting your fleetmates together and making an attempt to go over this guy's head.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Former/Cryptic Name: Captain_Hans_Langsdorff
Founding member, Special Service Squadron
"Fear God and Dread Nought." First Sea Lord, Adm. Jacky Fisher
1 the original five people need to be listed as "founder/leader" and be impossible to demote , remove or dispatch
if they QUIT thats different.
2 kicking from fleets should be by majority vote of the "founder/leaders" or other leaders ONLY
3 Fleet bank withdrawals should be on a time lag example "James janeway the 3rd wishes to withdraw 74 ec tomorrow at 10am gmt" "Le Cuteness of Borg wishes to withdraw 400 shield generators at 11 am gmt" and give leaders a chance to hit a NO button
4 Fleet rank names should not be possible to change to things like "stoner" "peon" "slave" "drug mule" and "hoe"
5 minimum rank should be MEMBER
6 if a person who has contributed heavily to a starbase is BOOTED (not leaves on their own) the fleet should incur a "fleet debt" that has to be paid before the starbase can increase in size
7 once a person LEAVES a fleet they should not be able to return to that fleet at officer ranks (for say 1 year)
1 the original five people need to be listed as "founder/leader" and be impossible to demote , remove or dispatch
if they QUIT thats different.
2 kicking from fleets should be by majority vote of the "founder/leaders" or other leaders ONLY
3 Fleet bank withdrawals should be on a time lag example "James janeway the 3rd wishes to withdraw 74 ec tomorrow at 10am gmt" "Le Cuteness of Borg wishes to withdraw 400 shield generators at 11 am gmt" and give leaders a chance to hit a NO button
4 Fleet rank names should not be possible to change to things like "stoner" "peon" "slave" "drug mule" and "hoe"
5 minimum rank should be MEMBER
6 if a person who has contributed heavily to a starbase is BOOTED (not leaves on their own) the fleet should incur a "fleet debt" that has to be paid before the starbase can increase in size
7 once a person LEAVES a fleet they should not be able to return to that fleet at officer ranks (for say 1 year)
You do make good points but with sound personnel management policies these do not need to be implemented. People don't need to operate under draconian rules set by the game you know? They can police their own guilds effectively.
If you want a Founders rank with top privledges then just promote them accordingly on fleet creation.
But that's not a smart thing to do to share admin rights because that's exactly why OP got his problem.
The existing system works fine as it is, don't make the assumption that just because people get exploited once in a while, you have to lock everything down tighter than East Germany in the late '40s.
**** happens, and with the general culture of guilds being a friendly, supportive one, no one could have prevented OP's issue.
STF Flight Instructor since Early 2012. Newbies are the reason why STO lives and breathes today. Do not discriminate.
I have read the entire thread before posting, BUT if you CAN read you'll notice than NOWHERE did I say it was the OP who let the thief back in, I said it was HIS fault for letting untrustworthy people (the guy who DID let the thief back in) run the fleet.
BIG difference.
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
And who is to say they 'elected' him? It's quite likely that the new leader had merely stepped in when the old leader (which is also the 'god' of the fleet) left. Not too dissimilar to what happened when the old leader returned, except there was no dictatorship involved, and the new leader didn't kick the old one to get his power.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
That's why I appoint a deputy Wing Commander to manage fleet holdings in case of any RL issues I have.
I also have strategic operations officers having 90% of fleet rights who are supposed to manage crew training, inventory, recruitment and starbase holdings.
A large number of people have middle management rights for individual squadrons or interest groups but no one person can take over and start deleting things.
Well except for the two wing commanders, who do have a duty to keep strategic ops moving forward and that constant communications and joint leadership opportunities doesn't allow anyone to have time to think about sabotaging the system or to even try doing so.
They've all become managers in the fleet because they are managers IRL.
STF Flight Instructor since Early 2012. Newbies are the reason why STO lives and breathes today. Do not discriminate.
There are really that many people who think the OP basically deserves what he got? Boy I am glad I am not in a fleet with you people!!! Just because someone didn't break a rule doesn't change the fact that that someone just screwed a ton of people over. Thanks to starbases, "pack up and leave" isn't as easy a choice as it once was, especially considering how freaking expensive many of the base upgrades are.
I'd say try your luck with the gamemasters. If they are really "game masters" they should have the power to do something. Doesn't Cryptic/PWE basically reserve the right to do basically anything to you including kick you out of the game on a whim? Now, they might not actually ever go to that extent, but I don't see the harm in getting your fleetmates together and making an attempt to go over this guy's head.
Heh, exactly! Unfortunately, I'm not sure the GMs will respond, as stated by other posters. The most likely options really are to wait until he goes offline for 30 days in a row (not too likely, but will be less expensive should it succeed... extremely expensive if it fails though) for the next ranking officer in the fleet to take over, or to rally whatever members he can and rebuild the fleet from scratch.
I'm glad my own fleet has a strictly established hierarchy, 3 fed variants, and stuff...
There's a small 'Council' that decides stuff from what I can tell, and the other ranks merely have privileges.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
I'm so glad TSI doesnt have this kind of TRIBBLE to worry about... come to think of it, most pvp fleets doesnt have these issues to worry about.
maybe its cause we vent all our rage in battle rather then at each other?
Battle is the greatest motivation of them all. Organise forces or be slaugthered by the Klingons
Regular activities, Star Trek canon discussions and keeping people challenged does do wonders to keep enthusiasm high just as it does to keep RL Trek fanclubs together.
It's the "I made a fleet because its cool" type that run into problems with inactivity and random raging. "I just want to be happy" mentality does not make an effective master and commander.
Or the "I paid real money so I can abuse whomever I want" managers who create unnecessary drama in supposedly non-drama fleets.
Just speaking from experience.
STF Flight Instructor since Early 2012. Newbies are the reason why STO lives and breathes today. Do not discriminate.
There are really that many people who think the OP basically deserves what he got? Boy I am glad I am not in a fleet with you people!!! Just because someone didn't break a rule doesn't change the fact that that someone just screwed a ton of people over. Thanks to starbases, "pack up and leave" isn't as easy a choice as it once was, especially considering how freaking expensive many of the base upgrades are.
I'd say try your luck with the gamemasters. If they are really "game masters" they should have the power to do something. Doesn't Cryptic/PWE basically reserve the right to do basically anything to you including kick you out of the game on a whim? Now, they might not actually ever go to that extent, but I don't see the harm in getting your fleetmates together and making an attempt to go over this guy's head.
I don't think many people are saying that the fleet deserved to be jacked. What we're saying is that the system is not designed to prevent what happened and PWE can't reasonably intervene because someone with fleet privileges allowed it to happen.
If PWE gets involved in something like this, customer support will be spending half their time trying to mediate internal fleet disputes and probably make an unfair decision in most of those cases.
1 the original five people need to be listed as "founder/leader" and be impossible to demote , remove or dispatch
if they QUIT thats different.
2 kicking from fleets should be by majority vote of the "founder/leaders" or other leaders ONLY
3 Fleet bank withdrawals should be on a time lag example "James janeway the 3rd wishes to withdraw 74 ec tomorrow at 10am gmt" "Le Cuteness of Borg wishes to withdraw 400 shield generators at 11 am gmt" and give leaders a chance to hit a NO button
4 Fleet rank names should not be possible to change to things like "stoner" "peon" "slave" "drug mule" and "hoe"
5 minimum rank should be MEMBER
6 if a person who has contributed heavily to a starbase is BOOTED (not leaves on their own) the fleet should incur a "fleet debt" that has to be paid before the starbase can increase in size
7 once a person LEAVES a fleet they should not be able to return to that fleet at officer ranks (for say 1 year)
A1. There's a reason why Cryptic leaves this open and flexible, so people can use whatever form of fleet governance they choose.
A2. There are a few problems inherent in putting every decision to a vote or up for committee.
Quick decisions can't be made; Joe Ripoff and Sam Anarchy can't be stopped before they do more damage
New fleet functionality can't be taken advantage of immediately
Internal squabbles could actually get worse and splinter the fleet
See #A1
A3. People can't always wait for what they need. Plus, the "No" button already exists in a crude fashion; the bank rights can be given, revoked, and withheld. Also see #A2.
4. See #A1
5. See #A1
6. If someone gets kicked out for good cause (for example, if they're a thief), why should the fleet go into debt because someone else is at fault?
7. See #A1
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Personally, I feel bad for the OP... they got the shaft... Unfortunately, it is a live and learn situation.
Originally Posted by sollvax
1 the original five people need to be listed as "founder/leader" and be impossible to demote , remove or dispatch
if they QUIT thats different.
I agree with bluegeek, a leadership model you choose, may not be applicable to the one I choose. It should be a collaborative decision. Admittedly this leaves the door open to problems.
2 kicking from fleets should be by majority vote of the "founder/leaders" or other leaders ONLY
This really is an internal policy... we use this is my fleet.. we have only had to kick 2 players since its founding. With us being spread our around the globe, and at times have different schedules... its difficult to get us all in a room to chat about it. Albeit, we do use an officers only section of the our website to disuss this type of stuff... but there are times when rapid action must be taken.
3 Fleet bank withdrawals should be on a time lag example "James janeway the 3rd wishes to withdraw 74 ec tomorrow at 10am gmt" "Le Cuteness of Borg wishes to withdraw 400 shield generators at 11 am gmt" and give leaders a chance to hit a NO button
Just no... We have a pretty liberal banking policy, and never had any issues... well 1, and it was my fault (didn't double check the permissions). Personally, I do no want to get alerted each and everytime someone wants to make a withdraw. If I didn't trust them, they wouldn't have withdraw capabilities i gave them. Not to mention this solves nothing, as a tyrannical fleet leader can just disapprove of anyone that hasn't made their inner circle (same thing happens now in bad fleets).
4 Fleet rank names should not be possible to change to things like "stoner" "peon" "slave" "drug mule" and "hoe"
Not that I have anything like this, but why shouldn't a fleet of likeminded individuals be able to set it up anyway they wish... not to put to fine a point on it.. but there is a leave button if you don't like the direction the fleet is going.
5 minimum rank should be MEMBER
In name? No thanks... I enjoy the fact that we could set-up the rank names as we see fit.. some people have fun with it (My recruit member rank is Red Shirt... but we are all members...
6 if a person who has contributed heavily to a starbase is BOOTED (not leaves on their own) the fleet should incur a "fleet debt" that has to be paid before the starbase can increase in size
Contributions to the fleet projects are made to the fleet... if you have bad fleet leadership... you should have known that before contributing heavily.
Point being, members should take time before investing heavily to decide if the fleet, fleet leaders, etc are also a good fit for them.
7 once a person LEAVES a fleet they should not be able to return to that fleet at officer ranks (for say 1 year)
Again this is an internal policy you need to work out with your leadership.
In the end, the system is flexible to allow people to enjoy it the way they want... unfortunately things like what happened to the OP can happen, but to some extent they are avoidable. At some point you, as a player, should have a clue as to what the fleet is like. You can see the permissions, bank and rank. We use a recruiting period... As much as it is used for us fleet leaders to make sure that we don't think will present a problem, I hope that the members are taking this time to see if the fleet is a good fit for them.
Point being, with the right people, right mindset, and sense of fair play (by the way, click on bluegeek's link for the 4F's, its a great read... still rewording a bit for my use, but still great). Then you won't have these issues... granted it might take some time to find the right fleet... but with over 8000... there is one out there.
I dont think spending a lot of development time on this makes anysense personally.
And who is to say they 'elected' him? It's quite likely that the new leader had merely stepped in when the old leader (which is also the 'god' of the fleet) left. Not too dissimilar to what happened when the old leader returned, except there was no dictatorship involved, and the new leader didn't kick the old one to get his power.
Again, I said nothing about the leadership being elected, I gleaned all I needed to know from the original post:
So, if I wasn't in danger of losing my fleet and starbase to a 40 year old man's fit of childish rage over a video game it would be funny.
...It says 'my fleet', so the OP put his fleet into the hands of untrustworthy cohorts with the permissions he gave, they allowed a disgruntled former member back in and returned his permissions to destabilize the fleet (which he did), and now the OP want's PWE to correct HIS mistake.
I think the OP should accept some responsibility in the debacle and move on with lesson he just learned. I know I would.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Granted, not that this helps you, but perhaps others reading might think about this:
This is the reason you don't get into a Fleet, clan, or guild with strangers or why, if you do, you "try them on" for a while before you commit time and non-renewable/hard to come by resources, particularly to a group kitty you have no immediate influence over via vote or ability to opt out of.
I realize this is a multi-player game and, unless you start and keep with folks you know, there is little recourse but to group with strangers. But where there are people concerned, there is drama.
I agree that Cryptic/PWE will likely do little, if anything, to help out, and all I can add is that I'm sorry this has happened to you: sounds like these folks at the "top" have some "daddy-didn't-love-me-and-I-had-no-friends-in-school" issues...
Fleet Commander
Caprica's Revenge (...actually active since November 2010, which may one day be important to archaeologists, but not to anyone else...)
This is the reason you don't get into a Fleet, clan, or guild with strangers or why, if you do, you "try them on" for a while before you commit time and non-renewable/hard to come by resources, particularly to a group kitty you have no immediate influence over via vote or ability to opt out of.
^^ This.
You can tell very quickly if the fleet you just joined is going to work for you or not.
and if for any reason he doesn't you are all invited to Join guardians of Earth. I can promise you We don't lock everyone else out when we get TO'd we just take a breather.
Again, I said nothing about the leadership being elected, I gleaned all I needed to know from the original post:
...It says 'my fleet', so the OP put his fleet into the hands of untrustworthy cohorts with the permissions he gave, they allowed a disgruntled former member back in and returned his permissions to destabilize the fleet (which he did), and now the OP want's PWE to correct HIS mistake.
I think the OP should accept some responsibility in the debacle and move on with lesson he just learned. I know I would.
I also say "my fleet" whenever I'm referring to the fleet I'm in, despite the fact that I had NEVER been above rank 1 in it. NEVER. It's quite visible that he's doing the same.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
I also say "my fleet" whenever I'm referring to the fleet I'm in, despite the fact that I had NEVER been above rank 1 in it. NEVER. It's quite visible that he's doing the same.
It's quite visible that he's definitely above rank 1.
I also say "my fleet" whenever I'm referring to the fleet I'm in, despite the fact that I had NEVER been above rank 1 in it. NEVER. It's quite visible that he's doing the same.
Is it ?
So, if I wasn't in danger of losing my fleet and starbase to a 40 year old man's fit of childish rage over a video game it would be funny.
I know I'm not in danger of losing my fleet to some thief.
...see how I used your 'rule' to refer to the fleet I belong to (that I don't have 'god' permissions to kick/rename/loot the bank/disband) ?
Sure sounds like the OP is a founder of that fleet, don't you think ?
Why did God go the first time,and if it was that bad why did one of you let him back in at top rank.if he came back he should of started at the bottom to see if he had change.I know its makes you mad but thats life,untill we get command codes that the top 5 players (or 4 out of the 5) in a fleet must put in to change anything like kicking you down a rank or two.
P.S if he was that bad why did he not just kick you out of the fleet there are always two sides of the story,so please can we have it
Comments
Yea, I hate apathetic people. Hate em. They are parasites that cause dysfunction in society. I didn't say a word about your opinion, I stated a reaction to your apathetic attitude, then I insinuated that you were either a tween or ignorant. Read it again if you have to. Tolerance is not something you should afford everyone. Intolerance isn't universally evil, that's stupid. Sorry I polarized you man, I felt your tude was unwarranted and I reacted. I don't want a flame war, I'm really sorry I reacted that way. You're right that I shouldn't judge you on one forum post.
Thats what I'm doing
No one gains anything trading insults on a forum. Get in game and do a PvP at high noon to sort it out
My Youtube Channel
I really do feel for those who get the short end of the stick by the actions of a few, this shouldn't have a place anywhere, much less here, but it's a necessary evil that we all must deal with.
IF YOU ARE READING MY SIG - THEN YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG
Hate to say it but - The person you guys should be upset with is the other Leader who gave this guy full Leadership rights back when he knew this guy had a 'history' as it were.
No one violated any rules and it wasn't Cryptic who made the mistake that lead to all this drama. Guild implosions happen (in 13 years of MMOing I have a nukmber of 'self-destruct' Guild stories for Guilds I was involved with - and in the end, the game developer's response was: "Sorry, he/she didn't break any rules, as he had permissions to make those changes...")
If Cryptic/PWE does something for you, great; but from past experience, I wouldn't be surprised if the response is something like the above. Your best bet is to take those willing to come, and start over - and make sure the person you pick as the Guild Leader is a little more stable - and keep it to the ONE ultimate GL. Guild drama sucks.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
hate to be rude here but since he quit earlier and you all didnt really want him back but what gets me is the other leader he was able to convince that you all wasnt happy with, hate to say it all you got SOLed and if he was able to do that its just too bad because somehow he got all the power.
exactly /ten
I'd say try your luck with the gamemasters. If they are really "game masters" they should have the power to do something. Doesn't Cryptic/PWE basically reserve the right to do basically anything to you including kick you out of the game on a whim? Now, they might not actually ever go to that extent, but I don't see the harm in getting your fleetmates together and making an attempt to go over this guy's head.
Former/Cryptic Name: Captain_Hans_Langsdorff
Founding member, Special Service Squadron
"Fear God and Dread Nought." First Sea Lord, Adm. Jacky Fisher
1 the original five people need to be listed as "founder/leader" and be impossible to demote , remove or dispatch
if they QUIT thats different.
2 kicking from fleets should be by majority vote of the "founder/leaders" or other leaders ONLY
3 Fleet bank withdrawals should be on a time lag example "James janeway the 3rd wishes to withdraw 74 ec tomorrow at 10am gmt" "Le Cuteness of Borg wishes to withdraw 400 shield generators at 11 am gmt" and give leaders a chance to hit a NO button
4 Fleet rank names should not be possible to change to things like "stoner" "peon" "slave" "drug mule" and "hoe"
5 minimum rank should be MEMBER
6 if a person who has contributed heavily to a starbase is BOOTED (not leaves on their own) the fleet should incur a "fleet debt" that has to be paid before the starbase can increase in size
7 once a person LEAVES a fleet they should not be able to return to that fleet at officer ranks (for say 1 year)
You do make good points but with sound personnel management policies these do not need to be implemented. People don't need to operate under draconian rules set by the game you know? They can police their own guilds effectively.
If you want a Founders rank with top privledges then just promote them accordingly on fleet creation.
But that's not a smart thing to do to share admin rights because that's exactly why OP got his problem.
The existing system works fine as it is, don't make the assumption that just because people get exploited once in a while, you have to lock everything down tighter than East Germany in the late '40s.
**** happens, and with the general culture of guilds being a friendly, supportive one, no one could have prevented OP's issue.
My Youtube Channel
And who is to say they 'elected' him? It's quite likely that the new leader had merely stepped in when the old leader (which is also the 'god' of the fleet) left. Not too dissimilar to what happened when the old leader returned, except there was no dictatorship involved, and the new leader didn't kick the old one to get his power.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Correct.
That's why I appoint a deputy Wing Commander to manage fleet holdings in case of any RL issues I have.
I also have strategic operations officers having 90% of fleet rights who are supposed to manage crew training, inventory, recruitment and starbase holdings.
A large number of people have middle management rights for individual squadrons or interest groups but no one person can take over and start deleting things.
Well except for the two wing commanders, who do have a duty to keep strategic ops moving forward and that constant communications and joint leadership opportunities doesn't allow anyone to have time to think about sabotaging the system or to even try doing so.
They've all become managers in the fleet because they are managers IRL.
My Youtube Channel
Heh, exactly! Unfortunately, I'm not sure the GMs will respond, as stated by other posters. The most likely options really are to wait until he goes offline for 30 days in a row (not too likely, but will be less expensive should it succeed... extremely expensive if it fails though) for the next ranking officer in the fleet to take over, or to rally whatever members he can and rebuild the fleet from scratch.
I'm glad my own fleet has a strictly established hierarchy, 3 fed variants, and stuff...
There's a small 'Council' that decides stuff from what I can tell, and the other ranks merely have privileges.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
I'm so glad TSI doesnt have this kind of TRIBBLE to worry about... come to think of it, most pvp fleets doesnt have these issues to worry about.
maybe its cause we vent all our rage in battle rather then at each other?
yeah they are TOTALLY united (thats why there are so damn many of them of course)
Sarcasm
Battle is the greatest motivation of them all. Organise forces or be slaugthered by the Klingons
Regular activities, Star Trek canon discussions and keeping people challenged does do wonders to keep enthusiasm high just as it does to keep RL Trek fanclubs together.
It's the "I made a fleet because its cool" type that run into problems with inactivity and random raging. "I just want to be happy" mentality does not make an effective master and commander.
Or the "I paid real money so I can abuse whomever I want" managers who create unnecessary drama in supposedly non-drama fleets.
Just speaking from experience.
My Youtube Channel
I don't think many people are saying that the fleet deserved to be jacked. What we're saying is that the system is not designed to prevent what happened and PWE can't reasonably intervene because someone with fleet privileges allowed it to happen.
If PWE gets involved in something like this, customer support will be spending half their time trying to mediate internal fleet disputes and probably make an unfair decision in most of those cases.
The system is working as designed
A1. There's a reason why Cryptic leaves this open and flexible, so people can use whatever form of fleet governance they choose.
A2. There are a few problems inherent in putting every decision to a vote or up for committee.
A3. People can't always wait for what they need. Plus, the "No" button already exists in a crude fashion; the bank rights can be given, revoked, and withheld. Also see #A2.
4. See #A1
5. See #A1
6. If someone gets kicked out for good cause (for example, if they're a thief), why should the fleet go into debt because someone else is at fault?
7. See #A1
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
I agree with bluegeek, a leadership model you choose, may not be applicable to the one I choose. It should be a collaborative decision. Admittedly this leaves the door open to problems.
This really is an internal policy... we use this is my fleet.. we have only had to kick 2 players since its founding. With us being spread our around the globe, and at times have different schedules... its difficult to get us all in a room to chat about it. Albeit, we do use an officers only section of the our website to disuss this type of stuff... but there are times when rapid action must be taken.
Just no... We have a pretty liberal banking policy, and never had any issues... well 1, and it was my fault (didn't double check the permissions). Personally, I do no want to get alerted each and everytime someone wants to make a withdraw. If I didn't trust them, they wouldn't have withdraw capabilities i gave them. Not to mention this solves nothing, as a tyrannical fleet leader can just disapprove of anyone that hasn't made their inner circle (same thing happens now in bad fleets).
Not that I have anything like this, but why shouldn't a fleet of likeminded individuals be able to set it up anyway they wish... not to put to fine a point on it.. but there is a leave button if you don't like the direction the fleet is going.
In name? No thanks... I enjoy the fact that we could set-up the rank names as we see fit.. some people have fun with it (My recruit member rank is Red Shirt... but we are all members...
Contributions to the fleet projects are made to the fleet... if you have bad fleet leadership... you should have known that before contributing heavily.
Point being, members should take time before investing heavily to decide if the fleet, fleet leaders, etc are also a good fit for them.
Again this is an internal policy you need to work out with your leadership.
In the end, the system is flexible to allow people to enjoy it the way they want... unfortunately things like what happened to the OP can happen, but to some extent they are avoidable. At some point you, as a player, should have a clue as to what the fleet is like. You can see the permissions, bank and rank. We use a recruiting period... As much as it is used for us fleet leaders to make sure that we don't think will present a problem, I hope that the members are taking this time to see if the fleet is a good fit for them.
Point being, with the right people, right mindset, and sense of fair play (by the way, click on bluegeek's link for the 4F's, its a great read... still rewording a bit for my use, but still great). Then you won't have these issues... granted it might take some time to find the right fleet... but with over 8000... there is one out there.
I dont think spending a lot of development time on this makes anysense personally.
Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
Again, I said nothing about the leadership being elected, I gleaned all I needed to know from the original post:
...It says 'my fleet', so the OP put his fleet into the hands of untrustworthy cohorts with the permissions he gave, they allowed a disgruntled former member back in and returned his permissions to destabilize the fleet (which he did), and now the OP want's PWE to correct HIS mistake.
I think the OP should accept some responsibility in the debacle and move on with lesson he just learned. I know I would.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
This is the reason you don't get into a Fleet, clan, or guild with strangers or why, if you do, you "try them on" for a while before you commit time and non-renewable/hard to come by resources, particularly to a group kitty you have no immediate influence over via vote or ability to opt out of.
I realize this is a multi-player game and, unless you start and keep with folks you know, there is little recourse but to group with strangers. But where there are people concerned, there is drama.
I agree that Cryptic/PWE will likely do little, if anything, to help out, and all I can add is that I'm sorry this has happened to you: sounds like these folks at the "top" have some "daddy-didn't-love-me-and-I-had-no-friends-in-school" issues...
Fleet Commander
Caprica's Revenge
(...actually active since November 2010, which may one day be important to archaeologists, but not to anyone else...)
^^ This.
You can tell very quickly if the fleet you just joined is going to work for you or not.
Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
galacticguards.enjin.com/
Formerly Jewkesman Member from Nov 2009!
I also say "my fleet" whenever I'm referring to the fleet I'm in, despite the fact that I had NEVER been above rank 1 in it. NEVER. It's quite visible that he's doing the same.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Perhaps, but it doesn't mean he's rank 7. Furthermore, that statement could easily have meant that they were the only ACTIVE members in the fleet.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Is it ?
I know I'm not in danger of losing my fleet to some thief.
...see how I used your 'rule' to refer to the fleet I belong to (that I don't have 'god' permissions to kick/rename/loot the bank/disband) ?
Sure sounds like the OP is a founder of that fleet, don't you think ?
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
P.S if he was that bad why did he not just kick you out of the fleet there are always two sides of the story,so please can we have it