It is annoying, but obviously they found a problem and are moving quickly to fix it. I'd rather them do this and not have access for however long than have them just leave it up with a problem. Isn't that what everyone on these boards is always complaining about? Bugs that never get fixed? Well here you go, they're fixing one, and its probably something major if they did it this way rather than roll it into a regular patch.
I was just looking forward to fixing some more errors on my first ever foundry mission after I ran it with my friend, then I was told it was down again. I hope that something important gets fixed, I'm afraid to delete maps. This also sucks for our fleet because we have our own mission set, as skaldra said earlier. She also happens to build our fleet HQ with the foundry as well as make the missions, so this is just a bit of a disappointment.
It is annoying, but obviously they found a problem and are moving quickly to fix it. I'd rather them do this and not have access for however long than have them just leave it up with a problem. Isn't that what everyone on these boards is always complaining about? Bugs that never get fixed? Well here you go, they're fixing one, and its probably something major if they did it this way rather than roll it into a regular patch.
Good lord, not this same tired argument again. Of COURSE we would rather it work than be broken, but that doesnt excuse how horrible they are at testing. First they fail to properly test on tribble and the entire foundry is offline for several weeks. And when they finally bring it back, now they have to take the editor down. Whoever is supposed to be testing their systems obviously isnt doing their job. Its sad and pathetic.
Yeah, calling for calm and understanding is tiring, cause it never seems to catch on. You should see The Old Republic's forum, yeesh. In any case I wasn't talking about the testing process before something goes live. That's a whole other thing.
I'm no software engineer, but I would guess that there's no way in the world you can squash every bug before something goes live, I don't care how good your QA people are. How many bugs go live in World of ********, The Old Republic, Lord of the Rings Online, etc etc. I can tell you firsthand that plenty slip through testing in any game made by any company. I run a newspaper for a living, and I can tell you no matter how many times we proof something, errors still make it in.
Were you on Tribble when the Foundry update was being tested? I was and I never saw the duplicate map bugs or the importable mission bugs, or the delete map CTD and to my knowledge nobody reported those on the forums. I also never saw the lag that people are reporting.
Plus, when you get things into the live environment, players are going to use them in ways devs can't anticipate and so are going to find bugs that nobody would think to check on Tribble or in internal testing.
Whoops no Foundry for me today it seems now haha...
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] EXPLORE.
Dec '07 Account I EARNED 1000 days...I didn't BUY it! New LTS=Death to Vet.System: 10/10/12 Never Forget Something should be done for those who cared enough to have a 1000+ day sub.
I'm no software engineer, but I would guess that there's no way in the world you can squash every bug before something goes live, I don't care how good your QA people are.
You are responding to things no one even said(aka a "straw man" argument). No one said ANYTHING about 'they should have fixed every single bug before it went live'. Some bugs will always make it live, and that is just the reality of programming. But that isnt the point here. The point is that the foundry was ALREADY down for several week AFTER season 6 went live. Then, when they finally do bring it back up, now they have to take the editor offline AGAIN because they failed to get it right during the several weeks it was offline. This isnt about the fact that some bugs always make it live, its about how terrible their testing is when first they cant get it right on tribble, then they cant get it right several weeks after launch.
Yeah, calling for calm and understanding is tiring, cause it never seems to catch on. You should see The Old Republic's forum, yeesh. In any case I wasn't talking about the testing process before something goes live. That's a whole other thing.
I'm no software engineer, but I would guess that there's no way in the world you can squash every bug before something goes live, I don't care how good your QA people are. How many bugs go live in World of ********, The Old Republic, Lord of the Rings Online, etc etc. I can tell you firsthand that plenty slip through testing in any game made by any company. I run a newspaper for a living, and I can tell you no matter how many times we proof something, errors still make it in.
Were you on Tribble when the Foundry update was being tested? I was and I never saw the duplicate map bugs or the importable mission bugs, or the delete map CTD and to my knowledge nobody reported those on the forums. I also never saw the lag that people are reporting.
Plus, when you get things into the live environment, players are going to use them in ways devs can't anticipate and so are going to find bugs that nobody would think to check on Tribble or in internal testing.
You know, if the Foundry had actually been online when S6 went live, I could agree with you and give them a pass about some bugs slipping through. But it wasnt. They should have caught all of this on tribble, but they didnt. And since they didnt, they definitely should have caught all of this during the weeks the foundry was offline after S6 went live. But once again, they didnt. Theres comes a point where you cant just keep making excuses and have to accept the reality that they are doing something very wrong.
Listen, i agree with you guys, I think their testing process needs to be better. I'm just saying no amount of testing is going to find everything and sometimes problems will arise that no one anticipated which is going to result in a need to take down the thing to fix it. I feel the same frustration you do that bugs constantly go live, but I think yelling "you suck" after everything they do is not the way to encourage them to do better.
But maybe I characterized some of your statements, if so I apologize.
Bottom line, I just want to see the Foundry up and in working order. If it takes some downtime to do it, fine. I have enough other things going on in my life that I can survive without the Foundry for a few days.
On a lighter note: How hilarious is it that PWE censors the name of a certain competing MMO. It reminds me of that joke from the West Wing where the president's advisers are telling him not to say the name of his opponent cause it gives him free advertizing. "I think it's going to make me look like I can't remember his name..."
Drogyn, I think you are a nice person, and I appreciate your attempts to deflect the issue and defend the company.
BUT
Dude, please do not take offense at this, because I like and respect you, but you do not need to leap in and try and rebut EVERY single post that is semi negative about the state of the Foundry!
Some of us are mostly just venting, but you seem to be on a crusade to pour water on any flame no matter how small.
Again, please do not take offense as I respect you, but i had to say this.:cool:
One of the most annoying and destructive things to see is one consumer blocking the grievances of another. Before the invention of the digital forum, consumers use to take their issues directly to the company. Most customer issues were dealt with behind closed doors; thus, companies were able to control any negative backlash. Once manufacturing and developer companies started to use forums, consumers began to see each other as the enemy. Here is the kicker... Its not the consumer's fault.
Cryptic/Perfect World knows that issues will surface, so they created a customer service network. Phone numbers, forums, and in game tickets provide different pathways to help. Consumer forums are always going to be filled with positive and negative feedback. Even though we may have different grievances, the bottom line is that we are all passionate fans.
Before trying to shout at the consumer who left negative feedback (or has suffered a negative experience), ask yourself, "If I had a problem with this game (or any other product), wouldn't I want to be heard? Or, get the help necessary to solve my problems?" When it comes to external software issues (corrupt data on an external machine), the only person who can help these people is the developer.
After all, this is a consumer forum used for public relations, customer service, and consumer feedback.
Well, first let me say that if I made anyone feel like their opinion or criticism was invalid, I apologize, that was not my intention.
Why do I feel a need to stick up for Cryptic and the Foundry? Because it often seems like no one else does. Its not as bad as some forums I've seen, but there's a lot of negativity, and it seems like anytime Cryptic does anything its met with a chorus of complaints. Plenty of these are deserved, but I feel like I should voice positive comments to balance it out. I'm perfectly willing to admit that I have been zealous ? perhaps overly zealous ? in doing so where the Foundry is concerned. If some of you took that as an attack, again I apologize.
That said, if the stay-positive, pro-Cryptic opinion is not welcome here, I will go back to simply helping people down in the Foundry forum.
My problem with the constant excuse making and pretending everything is just hunky-dory is that it gives the devs absolutely zero motivation to actually improve. Like I said in my last post, I could give this a pass if the foundry had actually been online when S6 launched, but it wasnt. So not only did they fail to fix whatever is wrong on tribble, they also failed to fix it during the several weeks the foundry was offline after S6 launched, and now the editor is down again. That is NOT fine, and I'm not going to pretend like it is just to "stay positive". They have a serious problem with the way they do their testing and they absolutely NEED to be told that or they will never improve.
this foundry being down all all the freaking time is starting to get on my nerves BIG TIME along with all the stupid nerfs and TRIBBLE happening, i dont blame people for gripping i am starting to get there myself i mean really this is DOWN RIGHT REDICULOUS!!!!!
Im wanting my husband to finish up his great mish and this TRIBBLE of foundry being down is ticking me off!!!!!!
Im a paid customer learn to to start appreciating us paid people for once and stop TRIBBLE things up !!!!!!!!!
Drog, no one is asking you to hide. All I am saying is it seems as if you were jumping at every chance to patch up the negative comments.
It;'s fine because i am a cryptic fan, I am 100% a believer in their intentions in sto. That said,. the need to be able to vent is sometimes justified, and it does not make us a**hats.
:P
Zero knows me personally, and she knows I love cryptic, so I hope if she reads this she understands that any complaints are not made lightly by me. She has talked to me when I was SSr staff and before that and knows I absolutely support the hard work Cryptic does.
I did encounter a mission where an NPC I was supposed to talk to was nowhere to be seen--probably sunken into the floor, so I couldn't continue. But that's the only bug I've found thus far.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
I'm pretty sure that the reason it's down is a forbidden subject.
So I'll just say the following to those accusing the Foundry guys of poor QA; there's so, so much that's possible in the Foundry, checking everything's a massive job and probably exceeds their man-hours by rather a lot. Secondly, throughout the entire period it was on Tribble, none of the player base thought of trying the thing that's hopefully being fixed either. I know, we're not "paid to", but the point stands, especially seeing as that's part of the point of Tribble. It's an obscure and unlikely thing and was a result of "original thinking" and "had the virtue of having never been tried". As soon as the problem came to light, action was taken.
All in all, between ensuring there was nothing like the Season 4 dog n' pony show assosciated with the Foundry, and jumping on bugs like this one, I think they've got things handled pretty ok this Season, and when it was briefly up, appeared to have made leaps and bounds in functionality.
I'm pretty sure that the reason it's down is a forbidden subject.
So I'll just say the following to those accusing the Foundry guys of poor QA; there's so, so much that's possible in the Foundry, checking everything's a massive job and probably exceeds their man-hours by rather a lot. Secondly, throughout the entire period it was on Tribble, none of the player base thought of trying the thing that's hopefully being fixed either. I know, we're not "paid to", but the point stands, especially seeing as that's part of the point of Tribble. It's an obscure and unlikely thing and was a result of "original thinking" and "had the virtue of having never been tried". As soon as the problem came to light, action was taken.
All in all, between ensuring there was nothing like the Season 4 dog n' pony show assosciated with the Foundry, and jumping on bugs like this one, I think they've got things handled pretty ok this Season, and when it was briefly up, appeared to have made leaps and bounds in functionality.
You know, if the Foundry had actually been online when S6 went live, I could agree with you and give them a pass about some bugs slipping through. But it wasnt. They should have caught all of this on tribble, but they didnt. And since they didnt, they definitely should have caught all of this during the weeks the foundry was offline after S6 went live. But once again, they didnt. Theres comes a point where you cant just keep making excuses and have to accept the reality that they are doing something very wrong.
My problem with the constant excuse making and pretending everything is just hunky-dory is that it gives the devs absolutely zero motivation to actually improve. Like I said in my last post, I could give this a pass if the foundry had actually been online when S6 launched, but it wasnt. So not only did they fail to fix whatever is wrong on tribble, they also failed to fix it during the several weeks the foundry was offline after S6 launched, and now the editor is down again. That is NOT fine, and I'm not going to pretend like it is just to "stay positive". They have a serious problem with the way they do their testing and they absolutely NEED to be told that or they will never improve.
Ok, but bear this in mind: The only people who are in any sort of position to opine on whether or not it should've been picked up are those that know about it, and of those, I'm the only one able to do so without the benefit of hindsight, as I actually found it (and submitted a ticket). Any other viewpoint is rooted in speculation and generalization without any kind of factual basis due to the absence of facts available to it's proponent.
I know I can't elaborate due to the rules, and that's a terrible cop-out, but I'd ask that you trust me in this, and not blame the devs for this particular bug, as the kind of rigorous QA that'd have caught it would need enormous manpower or a lot of time. Both of which would need more money thrown at it.
Something else to bear in mind: If it had been found before, we wouldn't have had the Foundry for any longer, as the fix'll come no quicker now than it would've before, it'd just mean the Foundry would've come back later, rather than coming back briefly then going again.
Ok, but bear this in mind: The only people who are in any sort of position to opine on whether or not it should've been picked up are those that know about it, and of those, I'm the only one able to do so without the benefit of hindsight, as I actually found it (and submitted a ticket). Any other viewpoint is rooted in speculation and generalization without any kind of factual basis due to the absence of facts available to it's proponent.
I know I can't elaborate due to the rules, and that's a terrible cop-out, but I'd ask that you trust me in this, and not blame the devs for this particular bug, as the kind of rigorous QA that'd have caught it would need enormous manpower or a lot of time. Both of which would need more money thrown at it.
Something else to bear in mind: If it had been found before, we wouldn't have had the Foundry for any longer, as the fix'll come no quicker now than it would've before, it'd just mean the Foundry would've come back later, rather than coming back briefly then going again.
Your comments are much appreciated ebeneezer. Thank you.
I did encounter a mission where an NPC I was supposed to talk to was nowhere to be seen--probably sunken into the floor, so I couldn't continue. But that's the only bug I've found thus far.
gulberat, do you happen to remember which mission this was? It would be good to let the author know this happened, if you haven't done so already.
I know I can't elaborate due to the rules, and that's a terrible cop-out, but I'd ask that you trust me in this
No offense, but trust is earned. And since I dont know you, I dont trust you any more than any other random joe posting on the forums. And speaking of random joes, I agree with the ones who said the team had plenty of time to catch these bugs but still failed to do so. First on tribble, then in the weeks that the foundry was offline after season 6 went live. Its time to stop making excuses and seriously examine what is wrong with their testing procedures, and how it can be fixed going forward.
Ok, but bear this in mind: The only people who are in any sort of position to opine on whether or not it should've been picked up are those that know about it, and of those, I'm the only one able to do so without the benefit of hindsight, as I actually found it (and submitted a ticket). Any other viewpoint is rooted in speculation and generalization without any kind of factual basis due to the absence of facts available to it's proponent.
I know I can't elaborate due to the rules, and that's a terrible cop-out, but I'd ask that you trust me in this, and not blame the devs for this particular bug, as the kind of rigorous QA that'd have caught it would need enormous manpower or a lot of time. Both of which would need more money thrown at it.
Something else to bear in mind: If it had been found before, we wouldn't have had the Foundry for any longer, as the fix'll come no quicker now than it would've before, it'd just mean the Foundry would've come back later, rather than coming back briefly then going again.
Who are you again? What rules are you talking about? Why are you important? I think you said all that to deflect any opposition to your opinion. I do not think you really know what is happening. No one knows the exact specifics, for Perfect World has not said anything. We will have to wait and see.
Secondly, throughout the entire period it was on Tribble, none of the player base thought of trying the thing that's hopefully being fixed either. I know, we're not "paid to", but the point stands, especially seeing as that's part of the point of Tribble..
Do you realize that it takes weeks to build a good mission? And that we can't really see if there is a bug without building one? If we could import AND export (both are extremely important) our projects between tribble and holodeck, I would be happy to heavily help to test the thing, but the point is that if the devs wants us to test the foundry, they first have to give us the tools to test them.
Because testing is currently a pure waste of time for us.
Do you realize that it takes weeks to build a good mission? And that we can't really see if there is a bug without building one? If we could import AND export (both are extremely important) our projects between trible and holodeck, I would be happy to heavily help to test the thing, but the point is that if the devs wants us to test the foundry, they first have to give us the tools to test them.
It took me only two to three days to build my mission. Its rather easy.
Comments
"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
Good lord, not this same tired argument again. Of COURSE we would rather it work than be broken, but that doesnt excuse how horrible they are at testing. First they fail to properly test on tribble and the entire foundry is offline for several weeks. And when they finally bring it back, now they have to take the editor down. Whoever is supposed to be testing their systems obviously isnt doing their job. Its sad and pathetic.
I'm no software engineer, but I would guess that there's no way in the world you can squash every bug before something goes live, I don't care how good your QA people are. How many bugs go live in World of ********, The Old Republic, Lord of the Rings Online, etc etc. I can tell you firsthand that plenty slip through testing in any game made by any company. I run a newspaper for a living, and I can tell you no matter how many times we proof something, errors still make it in.
Were you on Tribble when the Foundry update was being tested? I was and I never saw the duplicate map bugs or the importable mission bugs, or the delete map CTD and to my knowledge nobody reported those on the forums. I also never saw the lag that people are reporting.
Plus, when you get things into the live environment, players are going to use them in ways devs can't anticipate and so are going to find bugs that nobody would think to check on Tribble or in internal testing.
Dec '07 Account
I EARNED 1000 days...I didn't BUY it! New LTS=Death to Vet.System: 10/10/12 Never Forget
Something should be done for those who cared enough to have a 1000+ day sub.
You are responding to things no one even said(aka a "straw man" argument). No one said ANYTHING about 'they should have fixed every single bug before it went live'. Some bugs will always make it live, and that is just the reality of programming. But that isnt the point here. The point is that the foundry was ALREADY down for several week AFTER season 6 went live. Then, when they finally do bring it back up, now they have to take the editor offline AGAIN because they failed to get it right during the several weeks it was offline. This isnt about the fact that some bugs always make it live, its about how terrible their testing is when first they cant get it right on tribble, then they cant get it right several weeks after launch.
You know, if the Foundry had actually been online when S6 went live, I could agree with you and give them a pass about some bugs slipping through. But it wasnt. They should have caught all of this on tribble, but they didnt. And since they didnt, they definitely should have caught all of this during the weeks the foundry was offline after S6 went live. But once again, they didnt. Theres comes a point where you cant just keep making excuses and have to accept the reality that they are doing something very wrong.
Original Join Date: January 30th, 2010
But maybe I characterized some of your statements, if so I apologize.
Bottom line, I just want to see the Foundry up and in working order. If it takes some downtime to do it, fine. I have enough other things going on in my life that I can survive without the Foundry for a few days.
On a lighter note: How hilarious is it that PWE censors the name of a certain competing MMO. It reminds me of that joke from the West Wing where the president's advisers are telling him not to say the name of his opponent cause it gives him free advertizing. "I think it's going to make me look like I can't remember his name..."
BUT
Dude, please do not take offense at this, because I like and respect you, but you do not need to leap in and try and rebut EVERY single post that is semi negative about the state of the Foundry!
Some of us are mostly just venting, but you seem to be on a crusade to pour water on any flame no matter how small.
Again, please do not take offense as I respect you, but i had to say this.:cool:
Cryptic/Perfect World knows that issues will surface, so they created a customer service network. Phone numbers, forums, and in game tickets provide different pathways to help. Consumer forums are always going to be filled with positive and negative feedback. Even though we may have different grievances, the bottom line is that we are all passionate fans.
Before trying to shout at the consumer who left negative feedback (or has suffered a negative experience), ask yourself, "If I had a problem with this game (or any other product), wouldn't I want to be heard? Or, get the help necessary to solve my problems?" When it comes to external software issues (corrupt data on an external machine), the only person who can help these people is the developer.
After all, this is a consumer forum used for public relations, customer service, and consumer feedback.
Its the nature of the beast.
Why do I feel a need to stick up for Cryptic and the Foundry? Because it often seems like no one else does. Its not as bad as some forums I've seen, but there's a lot of negativity, and it seems like anytime Cryptic does anything its met with a chorus of complaints. Plenty of these are deserved, but I feel like I should voice positive comments to balance it out. I'm perfectly willing to admit that I have been zealous ? perhaps overly zealous ? in doing so where the Foundry is concerned. If some of you took that as an attack, again I apologize.
That said, if the stay-positive, pro-Cryptic opinion is not welcome here, I will go back to simply helping people down in the Foundry forum.
Im wanting my husband to finish up his great mish and this TRIBBLE of foundry being down is ticking me off!!!!!!
Im a paid customer learn to to start appreciating us paid people for once and stop TRIBBLE things up !!!!!!!!!
That's a mjor exaggeration...
My character Tsin'xing
It;'s fine because i am a cryptic fan, I am 100% a believer in their intentions in sto. That said,. the need to be able to vent is sometimes justified, and it does not make us a**hats.
:P
Zero knows me personally, and she knows I love cryptic, so I hope if she reads this she understands that any complaints are not made lightly by me.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Remember, it's a game.
So I'll just say the following to those accusing the Foundry guys of poor QA; there's so, so much that's possible in the Foundry, checking everything's a massive job and probably exceeds their man-hours by rather a lot. Secondly, throughout the entire period it was on Tribble, none of the player base thought of trying the thing that's hopefully being fixed either. I know, we're not "paid to", but the point stands, especially seeing as that's part of the point of Tribble. It's an obscure and unlikely thing and was a result of "original thinking" and "had the virtue of having never been tried". As soon as the problem came to light, action was taken.
All in all, between ensuring there was nothing like the Season 4 dog n' pony show assosciated with the Foundry, and jumping on bugs like this one, I think they've got things handled pretty ok this Season, and when it was briefly up, appeared to have made leaps and bounds in functionality.
I agree with that the Captain said earlier:
I know I can't elaborate due to the rules, and that's a terrible cop-out, but I'd ask that you trust me in this, and not blame the devs for this particular bug, as the kind of rigorous QA that'd have caught it would need enormous manpower or a lot of time. Both of which would need more money thrown at it.
Something else to bear in mind: If it had been found before, we wouldn't have had the Foundry for any longer, as the fix'll come no quicker now than it would've before, it'd just mean the Foundry would've come back later, rather than coming back briefly then going again.
Your comments are much appreciated ebeneezer. Thank you.
gulberat, do you happen to remember which mission this was? It would be good to let the author know this happened, if you haven't done so already.
No offense, but trust is earned. And since I dont know you, I dont trust you any more than any other random joe posting on the forums. And speaking of random joes, I agree with the ones who said the team had plenty of time to catch these bugs but still failed to do so. First on tribble, then in the weeks that the foundry was offline after season 6 went live. Its time to stop making excuses and seriously examine what is wrong with their testing procedures, and how it can be fixed going forward.
Do you realize that it takes weeks to build a good mission? And that we can't really see if there is a bug without building one? If we could import AND export (both are extremely important) our projects between tribble and holodeck, I would be happy to heavily help to test the thing, but the point is that if the devs wants us to test the foundry, they first have to give us the tools to test them.
Because testing is currently a pure waste of time for us.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.