I can read the numbers. Almost any ship can heal away what DEM does. And DEM does even less than transphasics do right now.
You understand that DEM scales with tactical buffs ? You understand it is applied on top of the standard bleedthrough ? You can perhaps read tooltip numbers, but you cannot judge them from combat log.
Your so called "battleship" for example, would be killed by it in few seconds.
But let's not polute this threat with your non-sense again.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
DEM is supplemental damage skill,
it increases your energy weapons fire damage potential.
Transphasics torpedoes are not a skill but a weapon by themselves.
Major difference.
And yes, we fought a 1v1 before, and yes it was that mentioned 10 seconds fight.
The difference being that there isn't much competition for an Engineer's skill slots in terms of offensive power. If Aceton Beam and Boarding Party were as useful as comparative tactical powers (that is, not so easily counterable), no one would use DEM.
Aceton beam is mainly debuff, while boarding party is a control skill. DEM is purely offensive engineering skill. Both skills are fne, problem is in the accessibility of counters = everyone has them.
Originally, HE did only clear hazzards and provided very minor HoT, so not everyone had it. When the first major healing change happened, the skill was made to a no-brain choice while gimping aceton in the process.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
Nothing bad about dem... its also a pretty selfish skill, compared to say an extend or a sif or an engi team.... what the heck is team based about DEM ?
Its also far from a garbage skill. DEM dmg is effected by weapon power and tactical buffs... Engis and Tacs can both make DEM dmg extremely useful.
The design philosophy that led to an additional proc being added to Transphasic is as follows:
Shield Bleed Thru on a single type of weapon means very little unless everyone in a particular team is using similar weaponry. In fact, high-bleed Transphasics could potentially be seen as less team-friendly than Quantums (e.g.) because they have a lesser effect on the enemies' shields, which your teammates need to have dropped in order to reach their maximum DPS potential. Additionally, hitting somebody's hull while their shields are still up means they're likely to have ample opportunity to recover from that hit before they are defeated.
Or, to put it another way, ignoring an enemy's shields is ultimately a bad idea. We wanted to find a way to offset that.
Some of you will be happy to hear that the current proc is, we've decided, far too PvP-effective, and PvE-ineffective, to be the final iteration that goes live. As a result, it will be removed in a future build and is likely to be replaced with an effect that will apply for both Mines and Torpedoes.
The design of this potential Transphasic proc replacement is still in discussion so I'd rather not spill any half-complete details at this time. As soon as we've got some more solid plans, I'll be happy to discuss them.
You intrigue me. Transphasics have always been my favorite type of torpedo, especially when coupled with Tetryon beams. The Idea of adding some sort of shield debuff do the Transphasics would be very interesting. Will they still have the bleed through effect?
I suppose a shield debuff would make sense since you are disrupting the shields when you pass through them. Other than that I'm stumped as to how you would change Transphasics from a lore perspective. I am looking forward to seeing what you have in mind.
I think a nice way to revamp phasic torps would be to make them extremely rapid fire with ~80% shield pen, but the damage per volley is much lower, kind of like consistent pressure/nuisance torps. I know I'd love such a thing on a sci ship. The only problem I guess is that it'd be very easy to exploit them for proccing torp DOffs
Why not give them all cloak, just as the tractor mines...
This clears the mine spam but you will still be hit.
The principle of mines is that, because they have a fixed position, they have to be somehow hidden from sight. Its like a spider waiting for its prey. Think about land and sea mines. Or the cloaked mines in one of the Star Trek episodes (cant remember which one)...
AFAIK Mines are MESed (poor mans cloak) when they are activated.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
The design philosophy that led to an additional proc being added to Transphasic is as follows:
Shield Bleed Thru on a single type of weapon means very little unless everyone in a particular team is using similar weaponry. In fact, high-bleed Transphasics could potentially be seen as less team-friendly than Quantums (e.g.) because they have a lesser effect on the enemies' shields, which your teammates need to have dropped in order to reach their maximum DPS potential. Additionally, hitting somebody's hull while their shields are still up means they're likely to have ample opportunity to recover from that hit before they are defeated.
Or, to put it another way, ignoring an enemy's shields is ultimately a bad idea. We wanted to find a way to offset that.
Some of you will be happy to hear that the current proc is, we've decided, far too PvP-effective, and PvE-ineffective, to be the final iteration that goes live. As a result, it will be removed in a future build and is likely to be replaced with an effect that will apply for both Mines and Torpedoes.
The design of this potential Transphasic proc replacement is still in discussion so I'd rather not spill any half-complete details at this time. As soon as we've got some more solid plans, I'll be happy to discuss them.
Looks like we might have been a bit premature with our reaction then. Of course, can't really blame people with the poorly thought out, untested changes that have been rammed down our throats in the past. PvPers are fast learners though. If the way things are done really has changed I wouldn't expect any more dev pile-ons in the future.
The design philosophy that led to an additional proc being added to Transphasic is as follows:
Shield Bleed Thru on a single type of weapon means very little unless everyone in a particular team is using similar weaponry. In fact, high-bleed Transphasics could potentially be seen as less team-friendly than Quantums (e.g.) because they have a lesser effect on the enemies' shields, which your teammates need to have dropped in order to reach their maximum DPS potential. Additionally, hitting somebody's hull while their shields are still up means they're likely to have ample opportunity to recover from that hit before they are defeated.
Or, to put it another way, ignoring an enemy's shields is ultimately a bad idea. We wanted to find a way to offset that.
Some of you will be happy to hear that the current proc is, we've decided, far too PvP-effective, and PvE-ineffective, to be the final iteration that goes live. As a result, it will be removed in a future build and is likely to be replaced with an effect that will apply for both Mines and Torpedoes.
The design of this potential Transphasic proc replacement is still in discussion so I'd rather not spill any half-complete details at this time. As soon as we've got some more solid plans, I'll be happy to discuss them.
Is the Breen cluster transphasic included in those discussions ? I'm still miffed that it's broken since S6 AND now it didn't get the penetration doubling the droppable transphasic mine did. Doesn't the Breen cluster release the same mines as the transphasic drop mine ?
I'll try not to be such a harsh critic if you guys can stop balancing a weapon against itself and instead balance them against similiar weapons.
So, I have a better chance of winning the lottery with a 33% chance of winning with 5 tickets than I do with 100% chance with 4 ?
:rolleyes:
not exactly right...
The 4 have a guarantee of winning 1 time between them. Never more, never less.
The 5 have no guarantee, but will on average give you 1.65 winnings. Almost always one, often 2, and very seldom 0.
Transphasics seem utterly nuts. I really like the idea of the buff you are giving it but when you can use a dispersal pattern and debuff a whole team or atleast multiple people it becomes inherently better than most any player controlled ability/debuff.
Chrons have rarely bothered me in the past, but the idea of flying into a chron clump of mines and getting completely slowed seems bad.
Its important to remember that things in pvp will be taken to there utmost extremes if you let them. Yes this means a whole team will run chron mines and possibly a dispersal pattern just so they completely demolish the opposing team.
Mines and kinetic damage in general needs to be more threatening. Right now things like BO3 or super cannon spam is usually better at hull killing than kinetic which is how it shouldn't be. It isn't that the energy options are too good, but that kinetic is just so clunky and slow in comparison.
While these changes certainly make transphasics and chrons more threatening the rest that are pure damage are all more or less still laughable. In general I'd just say up there damage to shields, as it stands taking any sort of torpedo or mines to your shields is shrug worthy when in reality any sort of burst attack to any part of your shield/ships should be a big threat.
I'd also really like if you considered giving mines bonus damage against fighters/small ships. Much like how the PDS console does bonus damage to small ships having mines have a real purpose of countering spam would be wonderful and make sense.
The problem with torpedoes in game are a general problem with torpedoes in Trek.
In TOS, especially at the start, photon torpedoes where really powerful weapons, fast traveling, heavy hitting. Plus they looked awesome. Then with the movies the trend started to make them more and more just a light show, traveling slower and slower and doing barely enough damage to crush a building. See Voyager. While given their stated yield, it would blow up an entire city in one shot.
Make torpedoes travel faster, i can outrun my own quantums in my vor'cha. I should not be able to. Granted its somewhat cool to evasive at the poor target, fire up everything you get and while you pass the target your torpedo barrage flies in after you against the downed shield side.
Weapon fire in general should be faster moving, but especially torpedoes.
As for mines,
Really no one needs them, they where used in like 2 episodes of all Trek. Taht doesn't makes them deserving of been a main weapon class in themselves.
What i could see is giving torpedoes the ability to be fired at an area and go dormant there, creating basically a mine but a mine with an engine that goes then to fly at the target when its enters it engagement range.
I think that would have the following benefits,
Reduced balancing need because you would lose the entire mine weapons. More functionality for the player, one system can be used for torpedoes and laying mines.
You can keep the dispersal pattern skills, but when a torpedo launcher is used with it, it shots out the going dormant torpedoes instead.
Heres my mines feedback.
(...)
While these changes certainly make transphasics and chrons more threatening the rest
(...).
The proposed transphasic stats have already been cancled.
Even the original notes where new chronitons were given a 100% proc chance, would have been a 40% nerf to chrons. The ones you have now will accumulate procs faster when used in numbers of 4 or more. Besides, there was a typo, the right number is 80% chance.
The way chrons are on Live now : 100 mines will give 33 full procs.
The way chrons are on tribble now: 100 mines will give 80 quarter procs = 20 full procs, AND there is a 20% reduction in droprate, reducing the number of full procs to 16.
Now a nerf from 33 to 16 is considerable! Chroniton efficiency down by 52%.
What we WILL see, is MORE partial procs, and FEWER full procs and multiple procs.
The big question is: How will a partial proc be felt? And how will it be felt if you have resistance against it?
Comments
You understand that DEM scales with tactical buffs ? You understand it is applied on top of the standard bleedthrough ? You can perhaps read tooltip numbers, but you cannot judge them from combat log.
Your so called "battleship" for example, would be killed by it in few seconds.
But let's not polute this threat with your non-sense again.
If Idali is who I think it is, Sophlogimo already fought his Vor'cha and popped in about ten seconds.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
it increases your energy weapons fire damage potential.
Transphasics torpedoes are not a skill but a weapon by themselves.
Major difference.
And yes, we fought a 1v1 before, and yes it was that mentioned 10 seconds fight.
Aceton beam is mainly debuff, while boarding party is a control skill. DEM is purely offensive engineering skill. Both skills are fne, problem is in the accessibility of counters = everyone has them.
Originally, HE did only clear hazzards and provided very minor HoT, so not everyone had it. When the first major healing change happened, the skill was made to a no-brain choice while gimping aceton in the process.
Its also far from a garbage skill. DEM dmg is effected by weapon power and tactical buffs... Engis and Tacs can both make DEM dmg extremely useful.
So, I have a better chance of winning the lottery with a 33% chance of winning with 5 tickets than I do with 100% chance with 4 ?
:rolleyes:
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
You intrigue me. Transphasics have always been my favorite type of torpedo, especially when coupled with Tetryon beams. The Idea of adding some sort of shield debuff do the Transphasics would be very interesting. Will they still have the bleed through effect?
I suppose a shield debuff would make sense since you are disrupting the shields when you pass through them. Other than that I'm stumped as to how you would change Transphasics from a lore perspective. I am looking forward to seeing what you have in mind.
Master using it and you can have this!
Be black on the right side. Add properly colored Cheron to the game today!
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Why not give them all cloak, just as the tractor mines...
This clears the mine spam but you will still be hit.
The principle of mines is that, because they have a fixed position, they have to be somehow hidden from sight. Its like a spider waiting for its prey. Think about land and sea mines. Or the cloaked mines in one of the Star Trek episodes (cant remember which one)...
@rudiefix Feds: Rudiefix / Thron / Opa
@rudiefix KDFs: Lill / Xifeidur / Dehr / Ugly
@rudiefix Roms (KDF alligned): Chicita
Looks like we might have been a bit premature with our reaction then. Of course, can't really blame people with the poorly thought out, untested changes that have been rammed down our throats in the past. PvPers are fast learners though. If the way things are done really has changed I wouldn't expect any more dev pile-ons in the future.
Is the Breen cluster transphasic included in those discussions ? I'm still miffed that it's broken since S6 AND now it didn't get the penetration doubling the droppable transphasic mine did. Doesn't the Breen cluster release the same mines as the transphasic drop mine ?
I'll try not to be such a harsh critic if you guys can stop balancing a weapon against itself and instead balance them against similiar weapons.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
not exactly right...
The 4 have a guarantee of winning 1 time between them. Never more, never less.
The 5 have no guarantee, but will on average give you 1.65 winnings. Almost always one, often 2, and very seldom 0.
Transphasics seem utterly nuts. I really like the idea of the buff you are giving it but when you can use a dispersal pattern and debuff a whole team or atleast multiple people it becomes inherently better than most any player controlled ability/debuff.
Chrons have rarely bothered me in the past, but the idea of flying into a chron clump of mines and getting completely slowed seems bad.
Its important to remember that things in pvp will be taken to there utmost extremes if you let them. Yes this means a whole team will run chron mines and possibly a dispersal pattern just so they completely demolish the opposing team.
Mines and kinetic damage in general needs to be more threatening. Right now things like BO3 or super cannon spam is usually better at hull killing than kinetic which is how it shouldn't be. It isn't that the energy options are too good, but that kinetic is just so clunky and slow in comparison.
While these changes certainly make transphasics and chrons more threatening the rest that are pure damage are all more or less still laughable. In general I'd just say up there damage to shields, as it stands taking any sort of torpedo or mines to your shields is shrug worthy when in reality any sort of burst attack to any part of your shield/ships should be a big threat.
I'd also really like if you considered giving mines bonus damage against fighters/small ships. Much like how the PDS console does bonus damage to small ships having mines have a real purpose of countering spam would be wonderful and make sense.
In TOS, especially at the start, photon torpedoes where really powerful weapons, fast traveling, heavy hitting. Plus they looked awesome. Then with the movies the trend started to make them more and more just a light show, traveling slower and slower and doing barely enough damage to crush a building. See Voyager. While given their stated yield, it would blow up an entire city in one shot.
Make torpedoes travel faster, i can outrun my own quantums in my vor'cha. I should not be able to. Granted its somewhat cool to evasive at the poor target, fire up everything you get and while you pass the target your torpedo barrage flies in after you against the downed shield side.
Weapon fire in general should be faster moving, but especially torpedoes.
As for mines,
Really no one needs them, they where used in like 2 episodes of all Trek. Taht doesn't makes them deserving of been a main weapon class in themselves.
What i could see is giving torpedoes the ability to be fired at an area and go dormant there, creating basically a mine but a mine with an engine that goes then to fly at the target when its enters it engagement range.
I think that would have the following benefits,
Reduced balancing need because you would lose the entire mine weapons. More functionality for the player, one system can be used for torpedoes and laying mines.
You can keep the dispersal pattern skills, but when a torpedo launcher is used with it, it shots out the going dormant torpedoes instead.
The proposed transphasic stats have already been cancled.
Even the original notes where new chronitons were given a 100% proc chance, would have been a 40% nerf to chrons. The ones you have now will accumulate procs faster when used in numbers of 4 or more. Besides, there was a typo, the right number is 80% chance.
The way chrons are on Live now : 100 mines will give 33 full procs.
The way chrons are on tribble now: 100 mines will give 80 quarter procs = 20 full procs, AND there is a 20% reduction in droprate, reducing the number of full procs to 16.
Now a nerf from 33 to 16 is considerable! Chroniton efficiency down by 52%.
What we WILL see, is MORE partial procs, and FEWER full procs and multiple procs.
The big question is: How will a partial proc be felt? And how will it be felt if you have resistance against it?