or get 40,000 normal people to invest only $100 each into KDF only content? tho to make it so its not a single big gamble it could be 4 lots of $25 per person to ensure that its pro-KDF content (aka they keep up their side they get all of it in a gated approach, but would lose upto 75% of its not upto standards etc on the first checkpoint).
Tho not too sure on this idea as there are prob problems that I'm not noticing atm (half awake currently).
Also first time posting on here since the forum-change sillyness ?_?
40,000 people would mean convincing almost everyone with an active KDF toon to drop $100 KDF side.
It's not realistic.
It's not going to happen.
Cryptic wouldn't be able to guarantee the money went that way and collecting the money for someone to sign a contract is a recipe for massive fraud.
Cryptic isn't really in the game of producing leveling missions anymore. Even if they do FEs, it will probably be for max level players.
You're pushing for leveling content. It's more likely that we'd see leveling get eliminated.
The more I consider this, the more I think that eliminating levels is the answer.
Give people a tutorial that is better done and cross faction, that really preps someone for endgame.
Tie people's rank title options and ship options to completing certain story missions. So you're always level 50 but you can progress through ship tiers and titles and gear. But if you buy a C-Store ship and a weapons pack, you can go straight from tutorial to STFs.
But just make the game truly levelless otherwise.
Everybody starts at level 50.
I think it's the better fix from a business standpoint.
I have a content system I think is better than episodic missions or traditional MMO quests and cheaper to produce but I'm not casually handing it out, either.
Maybe you should.
How much hype do you think it would generate?
How many new players would you expect it to bring in? Say, to the nearest 10 thousand?
Are you sure it would excite people enough that they wouldn't just give up on it when they realized they had to play to Commander as a Fed first?
Would you expect it to generate more ships sales? Got any estimates for that?
You see the problem.
As it stands, they're making KDF content for a player base that is primarily Fed. Doesn't make much sense when you look at it that way does it? They need more KDF players to make it worthwhile; and they need to do it without just poaching players off the far more profitable Fed faction.
For that matter, any new players would likely make them more money if they played Fed; so what the KDF really needs here is something that will appeal to a gamer niche who are simply not interested in anything the Fed faction currently offers (which is to say, something that isn't in STO at all right now). Something that'll only really work for the KDF faction.
Myself, I'd go with piracy and ship stealing (since we've got the Orions and Nausicaans, both of whom are known for that sort of thing). NPC only of course.
Cryptic wouldn't be able to guarantee the money went that way and collecting the money for someone to sign a contract is a recipe for massive fraud.
Cryptic isn't really in the game of producing leveling missions anymore. Even if they do FEs, it will probably be for max level players.
You're pushing for leveling content. It's more likely that we'd see leveling get eliminated.
was thinking that would be one of the problems and really couldn't think of a solution for that, and wasn't trying to push for leveling content, just KDF only content in general, but the option of using in leveling content to be left upto how the content fitted in (something like that anyways).
Tho after reading your other post, I do see your point on removing levels being a solution, also reminds me of other games that use a similar system (somewhat) so is workable.
I have a content system I think is better than episodic missions or traditional MMO quests and cheaper to produce but I'm not casually handing it out, either.
I've seen you talk about this nonsense before, and its time to finally call you out on it. Anybody can claim they have some groundbreaking idea that would revolutionize the industry as long as they dont have to actually explain what it is. So if you arent willing to do that, then dont bother mentioning it. Because without any details, its just a bunch of hot air.
How many new players would you expect it to bring in? Say, to the nearest 10 thousand?
Are you sure it would excite people enough that they wouldn't just give up on it when they realized they had to play to Commander as a Fed first?
Would you expect it to generate more ships sales? Got any estimates for that?
I think it would generate as much hype as the DOff system or fleet starbases.
In terms of new players, I can't speculate. I think there are other hurdles to new players. I maintain that Mac accessibility reduces the number of PC players. I think leveling is an obsolete concept and is the prime barrier I run into when talking to old MMO players. It doesn't matter that it's fast; numeric leveling is a huge active turnoff to a lot of people. In terms of retaining players, I think it's solid, and in terms of monetization, I think it's solid based on a number of scholarly sources both dealing with MMOs and the principles of selling virtual goods and online businesses.
Again, what level you have to play to in order to be a Klingon is counter to what I'm concerned with here. If I had to focus there, I'd probably look at a rock solid tutorial and then drop EVERYONE at level 50 in a T1 ship. More levels or time spent leveling is not the answer, as much as that drives vets and people who like questing crazy. More things to do is the answer and more story is a part of the answer. People need more reasons to engage in storylines besides leveling, including existing story missions which need a reason to replay massively, which I do take into account.
It would create massive dilithium demand and C-Store sales for a category of object that doesn't presently exist.
I'm not fresh off the shuttle here. I may not agree with everyone here but my positions and our disagreements are not rooted in ignorance.
Well, space PvP. I'll cop ignorance to that. It seems to have a lot of arbitrary rules and math and requires situational mastery beyond what I consider to be the norm in MMO PvE raiding, which is more my background. I can crunch numbers on mobs. That's different from situationally reacting to what a live person is doing. And I'll cop ignorance there because it's just one big blob of sensory overload once you get beyond theory crafting for me.
I've seen you talk about this nonsense before, and its time to finally call you out on it. Anybody can claim they have some groundbreaking idea that would revolutionize the industry as long as they dont have to actually explain what it is. So if you arent willing to do that, then dont bother mentioning it. Because without any details, its just a bunch of hot air.
I'm entitled to my hot air and you're entitled to call it hot air and, at the end of the day, both of our forum posts will be the sole property of Cryptic Studios, a subsidiary of Perfect World Entertainment.
I'm entitled to my hot air and you're entitled to call it hot air and, at the end of the day, both of our forum posts will be the sole property of Cryptic Studios, a subsidiary of Perfect World Entertainment.
Yeah yeah, we get it; you dont want Cryptic to steal your little dream system. Fine. But since you arent going to explain what it supposedly is then there is absolutely no point in even mentioning it in the first place.
Last December a mission was put into the game. A simple mission, go to DS9 talk to a guy, thats all easy right. This mission was for both Feds and KDF. However if you were a KDF you couldnt complete said mission, it was bugged. In fact it told you to go to Qo'nos not DS9.
Said mission sat bugged for over a month without being fixed. Something this simple, this trivial bugged for a month. Why?
Something as simple as fixing the UI to be the correct color, still bugged. And for how long? Why?
Do they want the KDF to grow? I havent the slightest clue. what I do know is KDF problems are not Federation problems which means they are not player base problems.
The same thing is going on currently with KDF Lore Quests. Broken since S6 went live. Fed side is working of course.
People can tell where Cryptic's priorities lie. Where budget is given or not given. I want to be angry but after years of this its just disheartening.
One of the things that I played tonight is the fed side doomsday mission. It's kind of a strange experience, in light of this discussion. It's obvious that the remastered version works hard to get the player interested in the kdf, and it shows, that IF a dev is given some time to do something kdf related, he or she enjoys it.
This mission is kind of showing off the kdf to a fed player. However, when it comes to kdf gameplay itself, it's like it's waving a glorious cookie at you only to deliver a targ TRIBBLE.
Just kind of strange to play the doomsday mission, given the state of the faction and the realism that we will never have a fully fleshed out kdf faction.
It will never happen, but why not enjoy this fed mission that showcases the empire? A very surreal experience.
One of the things that I played tonight is the fed side doomsday mission. It's kind of a strange experience, in light of this discussion. It's obvious that the remastered version works hard to get the player interested in the kdf, and it shows, that IF a dev is given some time to do something kdf related, he or she enjoys it.
They don't just enjoy it, they prefer it.
I've had lots of chats with devs, both on STO and other teams.
As a rule, more of them have KDF alts. They prefer making KDF content and assets.
It's not a personal thing. It's a business thing. If it was up to their preferences, this would probably be Klingons Online.
The bulk I've talked to don't have a Fed alt or vastly prefer their KDF alt.
Wait! They don't have a Fed alt? Might that be... dev powers?
Which brings up a few other things I'll say about the devs:
On the whole (and Thomas, dstahl and others are exceptions; this is a generalization):
They don't like leveling and auto-level themselves. They don't like reading. They aren't big on story heavy missions. They are not personally big into fashion or customization.
They like playing auto-leveled Klingons. They aren't as big on playing Feds except for debugging. They like shooting things. They really like shooting things. They really hate reading.
KDF side at level 50 is pretty much the developer's dream version of the game and what they'd play at home.
Maybe if this were pre-launch, it would be something to make the KDF experience better. It's gone way beyond that now. The money is in Starfleet, and nothing changes that now.
The level 50 game is what needs to be developed waaaaay more than the KDF. There's so much more that needs work in this game.
I've had lots of chats with devs, both on STO and other teams.
As a rule, more of them have KDF alts. They prefer making KDF content and assets.
It's not a personal thing. It's a business thing. If it was up to their preferences, this would probably be Klingons Online.
The bulk I've talked to don't have a Fed alt or vastly prefer their KDF alt.
Wait! They don't have a Fed alt? Might that be... dev powers?
Which brings up a few other things I'll say about the devs:
On the whole (and Thomas, dstahl and others are exceptions; this is a generalization):
They don't like leveling and auto-level themselves. They don't like reading. They aren't big on story heavy missions. They are not personally big into fashion or customization.
They like playing auto-leveled Klingons. They aren't as big on playing Feds except for debugging. They like shooting things. They really like shooting things. They really hate reading.
KDF side at level 50 is pretty much the developer's dream version of the game and what they'd play at home.
So what you're saying is they're tired of working on the same game for... how many years is it now? :rolleyes:
So what you're saying is they're tired of working on the same game for... how many years is it now? :rolleyes:
No. I'm saying that there's a prevailing attitude of, "Needs more pewpew, less talk" that's been there for three years and multiple staff changes.
And they keep trying to skew in the direction that both player feedback (Dan Stahl's thing) and business (PWE's thing) point them in.
But, at the end of the day, the way THEY play the game internally, they'd be looking for more explosions, more Klingons, less NPC chatter. More Fleet Actions, fewer missions, no leveling.
I think their urge has always been towards a Michael Bay Klingon FPS. The first and third part of that get rejected by players when Cryptic tries to skew that way and the second part is pretty well shut off as an option by business realities.
I think part of the reason there's so much weird tug in the development process here is that the game the devs want to make is the opposite of this one... but somehow even more the opposite of the one that players ask for.
It'd be much more Klingon centric but with less soloable PvE than the current game has.
The direction they've gotten yanked is less Klingon centric than they'd like and much more story and thought driven than they'd like as well. I think it's true for devs when the game launched and probably true for the new hires.
And so when it comes to the idea of more Klingon deep story content, I bet it gives people at Cryptic aneurysms. Because the part of that they want, they can't do. And the part of that players want, they don't like.
On the whole (and Thomas, dstahl and others are exceptions; this is a generalization):
They don't like leveling and auto-level themselves. They don't like reading. They aren't big on story heavy missions. They are not personally big into fashion or customization.
They like playing auto-leveled Klingons. They aren't as big on playing Feds except for debugging. They like shooting things. They really like shooting things. They really hate reading.
KDF side at level 50 is pretty much the developer's dream version of the game and what they'd play at home.
It gives the impression that the Devs in general want a FPS with a Star Trek veener style of game over a MMO thats set in the Universe of Star Trek as a whole with a rich storyline and engaging missions designed to draw fans and new players alike to buy into STO and make an investment into staying.
At least that makes sense of why the KDF is incomplete. They never wanted anything past Duke-Nukem with ridges.
Not this again... I love the KDF. i play one. I agree with the facts that they need 0-25 content badly. But the rest is just fluff tbh. They dont need an edge like extra loot or anything.
That aside, i think they (the devs) know all of this, and it has been mentioned so many times its a bit pointless to keep bringing it up. PW did mention they realy wanted 2 fleshed out sides so maybe in the future we can expect more.
If the answer is "yes", then why not provide incentives for playing KDF such as bonus dilithium from dailies, better loot drop rates, etc?
If the answer is "no", why do you think that is?
I think progress on the KDF side is halted simply because the devs are currently getting more money through purchases made by FED players.
Why work on something that is potentially not going to give you as much money? From a company point of view, they're doing the right thing, from our point of view, they're not. It might just be that they're bleeding FED players now; getting enough cash into the system so that when the opportunity comes to fix the KDF side, they'll have plenty of money to do so without the need to worry about their own financing.
If that isn't the case, then I'm stumped. I've read rumours that they're hesitant about a Romulan side because of how few people play as Klingons, yet the Klingon side is in shambles. Why is someone going to play a half-assed character from a half-assed species when the FED side has all the pretty little tools, complete missions and various customisation? They're not.
It sometimes seems (be I right or wrong) that they're waiting for more people to play as KDF before they do any major overhaul on it. Unfortunately (for both us and the devs) it isn't going to work that way. The KDF side needs that overhaul before people start playing it. I know I'm not going to be touching it until it's worthy of playing; same goes for any third faction (if we ever get one).
Having levels 1 to 20 completed and in the game will suppress a lot of the negative noise coming from the KDF side and its a reasonable request, but I know its expensive and will take a lot of time. Many ideas have been discussed, from user created foundry missions to them just taking time. Personally, At this stage, one proper level 1 tutorial/mission somewhat akin to the Fed's would suffice, and one idea I really liked someones idea where you fight an Undine captain who has murdered and taken over the ship you're on and when successful you become captain, can imagine trying to seize the ship and fighting battles until you have full control? The rest of the arc can use whats already available, this should reduce cost and time.
Interesting to see the devs playing on the KDF, but they shouldn't really be the only driving force in creating, in fact if you look at another thread where someone compared the development ethos of Eve it is almost in stark contrast to what sometimes happens here, perhaps the proper symbiosis between players and devs hasn't fully been realized yet?
This is the first Star Trek game I have ever played, almost all the previous have received such bad reviews that I haven't bothered, and well STO was an exception as I had already pre-purchased before release and saw its potential..
Not this again... I love the KDF. i play one. I agree with the facts that they need 0-25 content badly. But the rest is just fluff tbh. They dont need an edge like extra loot or anything.
That aside, i think they (the devs) know all of this, and it has been mentioned so many times its a bit pointless to keep bringing it up. PW did mention they realy wanted 2 fleshed out sides so maybe in the future we can expect more.
Yep, and if given the choice between what we have with Season 6 content and Starbases vs story based content I would have settled for Starbases and the way it is now, it really has given justification to being in a fleet.
But, just like a squeaky wheel in need of oil it won't go away until its been oiled.
Sigh, KDF would be good if Cryptic gave a thing about many things, but they IMO choose from the beginning to TRIBBLE the KDF.
Seeing more and more bugs with every new patch only on KDF side looks to me as they activly try to discourage players from switching over.
Nerfing KDF to level 25 is just another justification not to improve on the faction in the future.
Yep, and if given the choice between what we have with Season 6 content and Starbases vs story based content I would have settled for Starbases and the way it is now, it really has given justification to being in a fleet.
But, just like a squeaky wheel in need of oil it won't go away until its been oiled.
I do not complain becuase I wish KDF content before any other content.
Starbases have long been on the list of wants and its great to see them ingame.
Endgame needs a revamp to keep the players playing.
All of this makes sense.
I complain becuase that "in the future, maybe" for KDF completion (or even just half-completion to lower the starting point in increments) is always just around the next corner but never gets any closer.
It gives the impression that the Devs in general want a FPS with a Star Trek veener style of game over a MMO thats set in the Universe of Star Trek as a whole with a rich storyline and engaging missions designed to draw fans and new players alike to buy into STO and make an investment into staying.
At least that makes sense of why the KDF is incomplete. They never wanted anything past Duke-Nukem with ridges.
I don't think that's every dev but I do think that's a good chunk of them. I don't begrudge them for that because I think it's a valid desire for A game and I don't think they're trying to impose it on this one.
But, yeah, I do think "Duke Nukem with ridges" is kinda what a lot of Cryptic would like to see... and maybe what a lot of game designers in general would like to see, which is why this has persisted through new hires. Either that or the hiring skews things that way.
Honestly, I think this is MORE true with the non-STO Cryptic employees that I've talked to... and the ones who this is less true with are the ones we deal with the most:
Ie. ThomastheCat, h2orat (not technically a dev but he's moonlit on the game despite being PWE marketing now), dastahl, Heretic (I miss that guy), jheinig. I think Kestrel, despite taking offense at some of the things said here, is less of the "Duke Nukem with ridges" camp herself and it probably frustrates her to get lumped in with that or to hear her friends lumped in with that.
I'd also say there are fence sitters, which include the guy who did Alpha and Coliseum. I'd also look at folks like Geko as someone who can see both sides... and I think zer0nius, while being personally more of a "make it go boom" player has lobbied hard for players who are not like her, as have others in her camp.
I think there is a recognition within Cryptic that there is a disconnect. I think there is an effort made to determine which Cryptic employees are on the STO team based on who is interested in more than that. But I also think "More pewpew, more boom" is a major urge within the corporate culture that does drive things.
And on a certain level, that's what's meant when they say they do listen to feedback and that's why the game's design seems to bob and weave in terms of direction.
Because if they ever did shut us out, you probably WOULD get "Duke Nukem: Star Trek Edition, now with 75% more Star Wars."
Cryptic has been pretty stupid about the KDF side. They blame us for not playing it enough, thus not giving them an incentive to flesh it out. Pretty terrible stance IMO for a company to take.
What they should do is take up the responsibility (and it is THEIR responsibility) to flesh out the KDF side, give it the missions it needs, an equal amount to FED, and watch the people come.
People won't come if there isn't a reason to. The lack of content has proven this. So don't blame us Cryptic, you guys are wholely to blame for not making the KDF side what it should be, not us. We have no control over that stuff only you do.
You give us little content, then blame us, not a good way to build a strong community.
In my opinion they had the opportunity to have the best of both, Story immersion and PewPew, under thier original backstory for the Chaos and turmoil of 2409.
They could easily have had the game start the player in the thick of said chaos, learning the true meanings why things are in such turmoil and participating in it through the PvE missions only to come to grips that things are not what they seem as they topped endgame and leaning towards learning to work together towards a common goal, even with the enemy in the STFs and FE's while fighting the Undine/Tholian/Iconian plot to destroy the quadrant as the ultimate endgame goal.
A good KDF low level PvE content would help set this up, better low level fed content would have set this up, yet we seem to have just ended up with mini-mall pewpew.
As to hurting feelings, I personally have anger issues and this game, some dev attitudes in the past and some of the players in it really push my buttons and in weakness I froth and rage in response.
Its the questing beast my Pellinore therapist has yet to find and kill.
But I think that while we will see KDF THEMED content, it won't be KDF EXCLUSIVE content.
Instead, I think we may well see episodes and missions tied into the Gorn uprising, J'mpok's corruption at the hands of the Orions and eventual removal from power, etc.
I just think Feds will be taking part in all that as well in cross-faction missions written from a Klingon perspective, with Klingons allying with the Federation against their own leadership.
Doesn't mean the war will end, just means that there will ultimately be regime change brought about by Feds and KDF... and then the next leader may opt to continue or ramp up the war.
Then, I dunno, we get Feds and Klingons teaming up against the Federation leadership, while still at war.
Comments
40,000 people would mean convincing almost everyone with an active KDF toon to drop $100 KDF side.
It's not realistic.
It's not going to happen.
Cryptic wouldn't be able to guarantee the money went that way and collecting the money for someone to sign a contract is a recipe for massive fraud.
Cryptic isn't really in the game of producing leveling missions anymore. Even if they do FEs, it will probably be for max level players.
You're pushing for leveling content. It's more likely that we'd see leveling get eliminated.
Give people a tutorial that is better done and cross faction, that really preps someone for endgame.
Tie people's rank title options and ship options to completing certain story missions. So you're always level 50 but you can progress through ship tiers and titles and gear. But if you buy a C-Store ship and a weapons pack, you can go straight from tutorial to STFs.
But just make the game truly levelless otherwise.
Everybody starts at level 50.
I think it's the better fix from a business standpoint.
Maybe you should.
How much hype do you think it would generate?
How many new players would you expect it to bring in? Say, to the nearest 10 thousand?
Are you sure it would excite people enough that they wouldn't just give up on it when they realized they had to play to Commander as a Fed first?
Would you expect it to generate more ships sales? Got any estimates for that?
You see the problem.
As it stands, they're making KDF content for a player base that is primarily Fed. Doesn't make much sense when you look at it that way does it? They need more KDF players to make it worthwhile; and they need to do it without just poaching players off the far more profitable Fed faction.
For that matter, any new players would likely make them more money if they played Fed; so what the KDF really needs here is something that will appeal to a gamer niche who are simply not interested in anything the Fed faction currently offers (which is to say, something that isn't in STO at all right now). Something that'll only really work for the KDF faction.
Myself, I'd go with piracy and ship stealing (since we've got the Orions and Nausicaans, both of whom are known for that sort of thing). NPC only of course.
was thinking that would be one of the problems and really couldn't think of a solution for that, and wasn't trying to push for leveling content, just KDF only content in general, but the option of using in leveling content to be left upto how the content fitted in (something like that anyways).
Tho after reading your other post, I do see your point on removing levels being a solution, also reminds me of other games that use a similar system (somewhat) so is workable.
Subbed since 8th February 2010
I've seen you talk about this nonsense before, and its time to finally call you out on it. Anybody can claim they have some groundbreaking idea that would revolutionize the industry as long as they dont have to actually explain what it is. So if you arent willing to do that, then dont bother mentioning it. Because without any details, its just a bunch of hot air.
I think it would generate as much hype as the DOff system or fleet starbases.
In terms of new players, I can't speculate. I think there are other hurdles to new players. I maintain that Mac accessibility reduces the number of PC players. I think leveling is an obsolete concept and is the prime barrier I run into when talking to old MMO players. It doesn't matter that it's fast; numeric leveling is a huge active turnoff to a lot of people. In terms of retaining players, I think it's solid, and in terms of monetization, I think it's solid based on a number of scholarly sources both dealing with MMOs and the principles of selling virtual goods and online businesses.
Again, what level you have to play to in order to be a Klingon is counter to what I'm concerned with here. If I had to focus there, I'd probably look at a rock solid tutorial and then drop EVERYONE at level 50 in a T1 ship. More levels or time spent leveling is not the answer, as much as that drives vets and people who like questing crazy. More things to do is the answer and more story is a part of the answer. People need more reasons to engage in storylines besides leveling, including existing story missions which need a reason to replay massively, which I do take into account.
It would create massive dilithium demand and C-Store sales for a category of object that doesn't presently exist.
I'm not fresh off the shuttle here. I may not agree with everyone here but my positions and our disagreements are not rooted in ignorance.
Well, space PvP. I'll cop ignorance to that. It seems to have a lot of arbitrary rules and math and requires situational mastery beyond what I consider to be the norm in MMO PvE raiding, which is more my background. I can crunch numbers on mobs. That's different from situationally reacting to what a live person is doing. And I'll cop ignorance there because it's just one big blob of sensory overload once you get beyond theory crafting for me.
I'm entitled to my hot air and you're entitled to call it hot air and, at the end of the day, both of our forum posts will be the sole property of Cryptic Studios, a subsidiary of Perfect World Entertainment.
Yeah yeah, we get it; you dont want Cryptic to steal your little dream system. Fine. But since you arent going to explain what it supposedly is then there is absolutely no point in even mentioning it in the first place.
If they havent fixed or added anything major in the 2 years that the game has been out...do you really think they are gonna start now?
give it up...nothing is going to change....
The same thing is going on currently with KDF Lore Quests. Broken since S6 went live. Fed side is working of course.
People can tell where Cryptic's priorities lie. Where budget is given or not given. I want to be angry but after years of this its just disheartening.
This mission is kind of showing off the kdf to a fed player. However, when it comes to kdf gameplay itself, it's like it's waving a glorious cookie at you only to deliver a targ TRIBBLE.
Just kind of strange to play the doomsday mission, given the state of the faction and the realism that we will never have a fully fleshed out kdf faction.
It will never happen, but why not enjoy this fed mission that showcases the empire? A very surreal experience.
They don't just enjoy it, they prefer it.
I've had lots of chats with devs, both on STO and other teams.
As a rule, more of them have KDF alts. They prefer making KDF content and assets.
It's not a personal thing. It's a business thing. If it was up to their preferences, this would probably be Klingons Online.
The bulk I've talked to don't have a Fed alt or vastly prefer their KDF alt.
Wait! They don't have a Fed alt? Might that be... dev powers?
Which brings up a few other things I'll say about the devs:
On the whole (and Thomas, dstahl and others are exceptions; this is a generalization):
They don't like leveling and auto-level themselves. They don't like reading. They aren't big on story heavy missions. They are not personally big into fashion or customization.
They like playing auto-leveled Klingons. They aren't as big on playing Feds except for debugging. They like shooting things. They really like shooting things. They really hate reading.
KDF side at level 50 is pretty much the developer's dream version of the game and what they'd play at home.
The level 50 game is what needs to be developed waaaaay more than the KDF. There's so much more that needs work in this game.
IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
So what you're saying is they're tired of working on the same game for... how many years is it now? :rolleyes:
No. I'm saying that there's a prevailing attitude of, "Needs more pewpew, less talk" that's been there for three years and multiple staff changes.
And they keep trying to skew in the direction that both player feedback (Dan Stahl's thing) and business (PWE's thing) point them in.
But, at the end of the day, the way THEY play the game internally, they'd be looking for more explosions, more Klingons, less NPC chatter. More Fleet Actions, fewer missions, no leveling.
I think their urge has always been towards a Michael Bay Klingon FPS. The first and third part of that get rejected by players when Cryptic tries to skew that way and the second part is pretty well shut off as an option by business realities.
I think part of the reason there's so much weird tug in the development process here is that the game the devs want to make is the opposite of this one... but somehow even more the opposite of the one that players ask for.
It'd be much more Klingon centric but with less soloable PvE than the current game has.
The direction they've gotten yanked is less Klingon centric than they'd like and much more story and thought driven than they'd like as well. I think it's true for devs when the game launched and probably true for the new hires.
And so when it comes to the idea of more Klingon deep story content, I bet it gives people at Cryptic aneurysms. Because the part of that they want, they can't do. And the part of that players want, they don't like.
It gives the impression that the Devs in general want a FPS with a Star Trek veener style of game over a MMO thats set in the Universe of Star Trek as a whole with a rich storyline and engaging missions designed to draw fans and new players alike to buy into STO and make an investment into staying.
At least that makes sense of why the KDF is incomplete. They never wanted anything past Duke-Nukem with ridges.
R.I.P
That aside, i think they (the devs) know all of this, and it has been mentioned so many times its a bit pointless to keep bringing it up. PW did mention they realy wanted 2 fleshed out sides so maybe in the future we can expect more.
Why work on something that is potentially not going to give you as much money? From a company point of view, they're doing the right thing, from our point of view, they're not. It might just be that they're bleeding FED players now; getting enough cash into the system so that when the opportunity comes to fix the KDF side, they'll have plenty of money to do so without the need to worry about their own financing.
If that isn't the case, then I'm stumped. I've read rumours that they're hesitant about a Romulan side because of how few people play as Klingons, yet the Klingon side is in shambles. Why is someone going to play a half-assed character from a half-assed species when the FED side has all the pretty little tools, complete missions and various customisation? They're not.
It sometimes seems (be I right or wrong) that they're waiting for more people to play as KDF before they do any major overhaul on it. Unfortunately (for both us and the devs) it isn't going to work that way. The KDF side needs that overhaul before people start playing it. I know I'm not going to be touching it until it's worthy of playing; same goes for any third faction (if we ever get one).
Interesting to see the devs playing on the KDF, but they shouldn't really be the only driving force in creating, in fact if you look at another thread where someone compared the development ethos of Eve it is almost in stark contrast to what sometimes happens here, perhaps the proper symbiosis between players and devs hasn't fully been realized yet?
This is the first Star Trek game I have ever played, almost all the previous have received such bad reviews that I haven't bothered, and well STO was an exception as I had already pre-purchased before release and saw its potential..
Yep, and if given the choice between what we have with Season 6 content and Starbases vs story based content I would have settled for Starbases and the way it is now, it really has given justification to being in a fleet.
But, just like a squeaky wheel in need of oil it won't go away until its been oiled.
Seeing more and more bugs with every new patch only on KDF side looks to me as they activly try to discourage players from switching over.
Nerfing KDF to level 25 is just another justification not to improve on the faction in the future.
I do not complain becuase I wish KDF content before any other content.
Starbases have long been on the list of wants and its great to see them ingame.
Endgame needs a revamp to keep the players playing.
All of this makes sense.
I complain becuase that "in the future, maybe" for KDF completion (or even just half-completion to lower the starting point in increments) is always just around the next corner but never gets any closer.
R.I.P
I don't think that's every dev but I do think that's a good chunk of them. I don't begrudge them for that because I think it's a valid desire for A game and I don't think they're trying to impose it on this one.
But, yeah, I do think "Duke Nukem with ridges" is kinda what a lot of Cryptic would like to see... and maybe what a lot of game designers in general would like to see, which is why this has persisted through new hires. Either that or the hiring skews things that way.
Honestly, I think this is MORE true with the non-STO Cryptic employees that I've talked to... and the ones who this is less true with are the ones we deal with the most:
Ie. ThomastheCat, h2orat (not technically a dev but he's moonlit on the game despite being PWE marketing now), dastahl, Heretic (I miss that guy), jheinig. I think Kestrel, despite taking offense at some of the things said here, is less of the "Duke Nukem with ridges" camp herself and it probably frustrates her to get lumped in with that or to hear her friends lumped in with that.
I'd also say there are fence sitters, which include the guy who did Alpha and Coliseum. I'd also look at folks like Geko as someone who can see both sides... and I think zer0nius, while being personally more of a "make it go boom" player has lobbied hard for players who are not like her, as have others in her camp.
I think there is a recognition within Cryptic that there is a disconnect. I think there is an effort made to determine which Cryptic employees are on the STO team based on who is interested in more than that. But I also think "More pewpew, more boom" is a major urge within the corporate culture that does drive things.
And on a certain level, that's what's meant when they say they do listen to feedback and that's why the game's design seems to bob and weave in terms of direction.
Because if they ever did shut us out, you probably WOULD get "Duke Nukem: Star Trek Edition, now with 75% more Star Wars."
What they should do is take up the responsibility (and it is THEIR responsibility) to flesh out the KDF side, give it the missions it needs, an equal amount to FED, and watch the people come.
People won't come if there isn't a reason to. The lack of content has proven this. So don't blame us Cryptic, you guys are wholely to blame for not making the KDF side what it should be, not us. We have no control over that stuff only you do.
You give us little content, then blame us, not a good way to build a strong community.
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R.I.P
But I think that while we will see KDF THEMED content, it won't be KDF EXCLUSIVE content.
Instead, I think we may well see episodes and missions tied into the Gorn uprising, J'mpok's corruption at the hands of the Orions and eventual removal from power, etc.
I just think Feds will be taking part in all that as well in cross-faction missions written from a Klingon perspective, with Klingons allying with the Federation against their own leadership.
Doesn't mean the war will end, just means that there will ultimately be regime change brought about by Feds and KDF... and then the next leader may opt to continue or ramp up the war.
Then, I dunno, we get Feds and Klingons teaming up against the Federation leadership, while still at war.
They've taken their identity and what little incentives existed for playing the Klingon faction and given them to the Feds in the form of p2w ships.