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Bio-Neural Warheads- "No-win"
jovusamberose
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
So....how come these are so incredibly overpowered?
A single missile ripping through a cruisers shield in ~5 secs with its AP point defence? 2 missiles disentegrating shields and hull in less time than that.
They also appear immune to gwell and TBR? Is this simply to make the fight more "No-Win"?
A single missile ripping through a cruisers shield in ~5 secs with its AP point defence? 2 missiles disentegrating shields and hull in less time than that.
They also appear immune to gwell and TBR? Is this simply to make the fight more "No-Win"?
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No Win is even more about DPS Hell, Groupplay and Healing than anything before.
It gives me at least a reason to have crosshealing abilities on my escorts.
It's the weapons fire that each missile outputs whilst it flys to the target (seems akin to an AP Point defence system?)
They're a tad OP.
Also, as an aside, in the Fleet Starbase Defence (the one with multiple phases involving moving between different areas to defend various systems and the Starbase itself) the Klingon NPCs seem to be shooting multiple Isometric charges at me when I heal the Starbase itself (getting hit by between 4 and 8 charge hits at between 4K dmg and 18K dmg per charge (after resists).
There isn't any methodology to counter this as far as I can tell.
Any devs want to comment?
I cannot get past level 5 because no one seems to know how to take these things on. I tried to make a run at a group of 3 warheads, with Em Power to Shields 1 and Tac Team 3 active: I was obliterated. I'm running a Patrol Escort with mk12 omega shields. I regularly solo cubes in elite STFs. I cannot believe a torpedo can SHOOT that hard, never mind the explosion.
It just seems like the devs couldn't figure out how to put in enough ships to make it "no-win", so they put in some crazy op "warheads" and said "there, now nobody can win". Might as well just make all our warp cores go critical at the start of the level.
I have heard rumor that these were added as a middle finger to players after a fleet beat the scenario on Tribble, but I don't know how much truth there is to that.
Heard that rumor too- the one that says some fleet beat no win with minimal effort on the first try, so the devs said 'screrw you guys!' And stuck the op torps in as revenge :mad:
This sig dedicated to the many random objects the Mythbusters crew has blow to smitherines
Yes that fleet was the Sad Pandas. Quite frankly I think it was childish of Gozer to throw in the Bio-N platforms that fire off these warheads like a missile battery, I have seen 5 or 6 simultaneously deployed from one at any given time. I stopped playing No Win because of this.
The fleet that beat No Win, were not a normal fleet, they are known for being Elite, right up there at the top of the game, and steamrolling pretty much everything that gets in front of them, and they deserve credit for achieving that. They do not sit where the rest of us play at so why should the rest of us get punished because of this???
Think it's time these platforms got a serious looking at, or at least toned down because battery firing Bio Neurals is not no win, it's actually just cheating and exploiting by the Dev that put them in in the first place out of shear pettiness and childishness. Just a tantrum...
***Disenchanted***
Real Join Date: Monday, 17 May 2010
Yes it was a decent tough fight, but was able to get Lvl 10, twice.
Now, with the current verison...oh heck no. There's are too many ships *at Lvl 5*, with Gravity wells, and shields strippers. You are simply overwhlemed from that point. They sometimes dead target the frieghter and have to sit in horror and watch that ship loses shields and hull in under 30 seconds.
Ain't Nobody Got Time for That
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Honestly the difficulty did need to be jacked up, it was way too easy before. But he went a bit overboard... or at least he went overboard too early. The jump between 4 & 5 is ridiculous and it needs to be smoothed out. Where 5 is at right now should probably be how hard 7 or 8 is. Then if you need to scale it up drastically from there to make it virtually impossible, go ahead.
I'd much rather the "No-win" part come in at around level 8 or 9. The difficult jump from 4 to 5 is extremely excessive. There needs to be more of an ease into it.
Speaking of which I noticed the platforms won't blow up when reduced to to 0 hull.:mad:
In the TV shows the long drawn out battles are instead shortened to really high action scenes due to budgest reason and even then the high action scenes often contradict the facts of what would of happend like for example in the DS9 episode "Sacrifice of Angels" not one shield effect showed up in the battle. It was a horrible Star Trek battle(im not saying it was terrible but it didnt do star trek justice), it simply was way to Star Wars or similar sci fyi type. Every thing that really made star trek was thrown out the void for explosions. Too much pew pew BOOM not enough shield down to 80% orders captian.
That in itself has been horribly transferred to STO. STO is hit them till there dead where as in Star Trek its out think, out plan, and out maneuver them till they cant fight back(surrendered/disabled/destroyed). Too much pew pew BOOM not enough shield down to 80% orders captian agine. Give all NPC innate abilities to heal them selfs like 2 emergency power to shield. Letting NPCs heal there shield and lower the damage output of weapons should make battle more interesting and actually balance the game PVE/P wise a little. Also more abillities to deal damage and/or debuff will help allow players to obtain training on how to deal with the more advance situations with out the horrendous 1shot insta-death weapons(NPC fired Bio Nural warhead for EX).
Don't forget that eventually, ships will spawn within 10k, sometimes even 5k of the freighter, but if you add tha to the riddiculus torps and the 'wtf?' 'I win!' Isometric charges, it will end instantly if a Negh'var spawns.
This sig dedicated to the many random objects the Mythbusters crew has blow to smitherines
We accept that it's "no-win" and nearly impossible, that's cool!
We are upset that at level 5, tank cruisers are getting ruined by a point defense system on a torpedo.
I consider myself to be an "above-average" player, full mk12 gear. I regularly solo cubes in ESTFs, I have no problem with most other ships short of a full tac cube. I explode if a bio-neural targets me, hands down, every time. I have all accx2 or better weapons, rapid fire, AP:B3 and tac team 3 up, and I typically cannot destroy more than 1 of these things.
I'd like to see all of the "instant death" mechanics removed completely. Bio-neurals are near-instant, and could probably be considered balanced if their point defense was simply removed altogether for this mission. But whatever that white thing is that Neg'vars are suddenly shooting that one shots me is incredibly annoying, and not just on no-win. At least the Borg's
heavy plasma's are target-able, if ridiculously hard to hit.
The other answer might be that there is some unknown way of taking down the warheads: pull a Kirk, if you will. As far as I know, no one has beaten it since they added the warheads on Tribble - I have yet to hear of anyone in STFVeterans or FleetEvent channels getting past level 6.
Have there been any dev postings or blogs about the warheads being added anywhere? I haven't seen any yet.
And yes, Enemy weapons and attacks are completely independant of the way player stuff works.
My character Tsin'xing
Which is sad, because players and NPC's should use similar, if not identical BO abilities and weapons (borg excluded)
This sig dedicated to the many random objects the Mythbusters crew has blow to smitherines
FYI it's not a 1 shot ability, the Point Defense is a continuous attack, like a Turret, the kicker is it does some 4000 (Before resists) damage a shot or something in NWS.
You obviously don't accept that it is no-win, that it is entirely (not nearly) impossible.
That being said, I agree that the difficulty jumps too much too soon.
Since I don't believe in no-win scenarios, I run the others and leave No-win Scenario to die on the vine, much like the Crystalline Entity (though you at least get points for progressing).
STO Forum member since before February 2010.
STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link
I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
I stand corrected. The result is the same however. I'm cruising along (full combat speed + max maneuvering skill + elusive) with max shield skills, EPtS II, a fully charged Ageis Covariant Shield and my semi-impressive Odyssey hull, and I don't even get the chance to register how may of these warheads it took to reduce my ship to a fireball of death in seconds in the NWS. It's ludicrous.
Yes, the player version of the weapon is still the same. Matter of fact, if your shields are in decent condition, player Bio-Neurals will be absorbed mostly by it. If your shields are down or weakened, you're screwed.
If only my version of the Bio-Neural can hit as hard as the AI's version can
Sacrafice of Angels had plenty of sheild effects.
DS9 used conformal sheilds though, (it looked better on the station), and becuase the tech was just coming in to do these then they went with the weapons coming off the sheilds as plasma, producing an exploshion FX on the sheilds.
Later of course they went for proper FX, e.g. Nemesis. But by then they coudl do thsoe FX at an affordable price. DS9 just used a diffrent cheaper FX.
My main complaint was that even by the standards of trek the DS( fights whjere blindingly short. I mean look at DS9 vs bugships. a few photon torps and their down. Yet we know that a galaxy with boosted weapons power, (shield and aux to weapons), and MANY minutes of sustained fire couldn't even scratch them. We also know from other facts that this is far more damage than a handful of torpedoes do.
Hell the Defiant needs 2 Quantum torps to do nearly as much damage.
Add in the ludicruslly low cashulties the station tends to inflict, (despite numerous fast kills being shown), and well...
Typical yank crying cos he dont win.
Erm....pardon?
Assuming you mean North American (the normal reference for "Yank"), then no....I'm British and there was no whining. There was an inquiry for a sharing of information.
So I'm going to assume this was a misinformed attempt to troll.
_________________
Back to the topic at hand, the Bio-neural warheads are making this pretty near impossible. There are methods to counter them it seems, but GWell is inneffective. TBR does hit but if you're in that range, their Point defence will be able to hit you.
The damage output from them is too high to attempt to soak, even with heavily resistant cruisers, but does seem short range. Having a dedicated Tac vessel blatting them down as soon as they move into range may be an idea.
Also, to those that say "It's supposed to be 'No-Win' " I don't believe the intent is to make the mission actually impossible, merely extremely difficult and requiring a fairly precise teamwork/coordination/loadout combo.
It's not supposed to be completely impossible: read the original announcement blog. Additionally, there are 10 levels: I've only managed to find 2 very advanced teams that have made it past level 5 since launch on Holodeck, and absolutely no one who's beaten level 6.
The only way to deal with the warheads on level 5 seems to be to use a heavy tank cruiser to aggro the warheads while 2 tac escorts immediately destroy them, meanwhile having 1-2 science officers repelling attacks on the transport. But even that is a long shot.
Perhaps something in the higher-tier starbases will present a countermeasure for the warheads, some sort of point defense of disable console?
Still pretty dickish to go from "pugs can sleep though it" to "organized fleets get stomped" in just one level. Didn't Gozer "leave"? Maybe cryptic just hasn't caught this modification to NWS yet.