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New Factions - Start Them at Level 50 Endgame
captainrevo1
Member Posts: 3,948 Arc User
It's that time of the week where we talk about new factions.
Let's be realistic, they don't have the resources to fully flesh out a Klingon faction so any future factions are going to be quite small and wont have many missions, which will result in a lot of grind of old missions and a lot of complaints for no content. There is no way I can see them adding a new faction in the same format as what we have now, while keeping people happy.
So for the next faction let's do away with lower level missions altogether and start them at Level 50 and endgame. They say everyone is at endgame anyway so let's treat new factions as an Endgame option.
If they can't make the missions and would be relying on old FE that we have all played a dozen times to fill out lower levels, let's just cut to the chase and skip it and let Romulans start at 50.
This means they have to create;
A start zone, probably Rator III, their new homeworld.
A starbase, most of the logistics is all made, so (hopefully) mostly cosmetic.
The doff system.
A few characters species (Romulans, Remans),
And a few ships (New skins and ships can be added later);
Bird of prey - Universal console ship
Mogai - Escort
Science/scout ship - Science
D'deridex - Cruiser
Scimitar - Carrier
Shuttle - For any shuttle based events
Without knowing the ins and out of the system, a lot of that is cosmetic so while the artist will have their work cut out for them it should not be too overwhelming on the system and content teams and hopefully make it a realistic goal for a season update.
All current and future endgame content is open to them and players can fly their warbirds around to the hearts content.
Otherwise they are going to have to come up with missions, more ships per rank, more storylines which will slow down the stories already being told when I think many Romulan fans by now would be quite happy to just fly their desired ships.
If it works then there is always the option to go back and add some unique Romulan content when the time is right, or even jump straight into a Cardassian or Dominion faction.
So would you support this as a quick easy way to get the Romulans and later factions in or would you prefer a more fleshed out faction (keeping in mind the problems that would come with it)?
Let's be realistic, they don't have the resources to fully flesh out a Klingon faction so any future factions are going to be quite small and wont have many missions, which will result in a lot of grind of old missions and a lot of complaints for no content. There is no way I can see them adding a new faction in the same format as what we have now, while keeping people happy.
So for the next faction let's do away with lower level missions altogether and start them at Level 50 and endgame. They say everyone is at endgame anyway so let's treat new factions as an Endgame option.
If they can't make the missions and would be relying on old FE that we have all played a dozen times to fill out lower levels, let's just cut to the chase and skip it and let Romulans start at 50.
This means they have to create;
A start zone, probably Rator III, their new homeworld.
A starbase, most of the logistics is all made, so (hopefully) mostly cosmetic.
The doff system.
A few characters species (Romulans, Remans),
And a few ships (New skins and ships can be added later);
Bird of prey - Universal console ship
Mogai - Escort
Science/scout ship - Science
D'deridex - Cruiser
Scimitar - Carrier
Shuttle - For any shuttle based events
Without knowing the ins and out of the system, a lot of that is cosmetic so while the artist will have their work cut out for them it should not be too overwhelming on the system and content teams and hopefully make it a realistic goal for a season update.
All current and future endgame content is open to them and players can fly their warbirds around to the hearts content.
Otherwise they are going to have to come up with missions, more ships per rank, more storylines which will slow down the stories already being told when I think many Romulan fans by now would be quite happy to just fly their desired ships.
If it works then there is always the option to go back and add some unique Romulan content when the time is right, or even jump straight into a Cardassian or Dominion faction.
So would you support this as a quick easy way to get the Romulans and later factions in or would you prefer a more fleshed out faction (keeping in mind the problems that would come with it)?
Post edited by captainrevo1 on
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Captain, U.S.S Transcendent
Explorers Fleet, Senior Member
Most endgame content does not even use them (at least on the ground, obviously space does for your powers), but I guess they would have to be there. I think at first it would have to remain as Romulans, Remans, maybe Hirogen. Romulans are a more xenophobic species than most so I would not expect a massive range of Bridge officers.
Perhaps at a push they could add some Ferengi or Mirradorns as hired help.
But with the Romulans, I personally would like to see a half-faction like we have with the KDF (which can be expanded to full factions). So much story potential that could be added on like the colony defections, dealings with the Hirogen, Federation, and KDF. Development of the Iconian storyline. And of course a great potential with the famous Romulan spying.
For a while, I pitched the idea that Romulan players could end up having access to Federation Storylines and hubs by posing as a Vulcan Captain. All Cryptic would have to do is have hidden objectives as Romulan Operatives in these missions. That alone would save time having to create new missions from scratch.
And empty locations like Andoria and Risa could even be used in part of these missions.
Works for me.
/signed.
So anyone playing the Romulan faction would likely just have to set aside any actual Romulan mentality and just enjoy flying the ships. If you're cool with that, then great, but I can foresee a lot of ******** and moaning (what else is new) when people realize they don't have any dailies or missions that allow them to actually behave like a Romulan.
Ships:
Bird of prey - Universal console ship
Hirogen Frigate - useless frigate ship
Mogai - Escort
Hirogen Apex - Science
D'deridex - Cruiser
Scimitar - Carrier
Hirogen Dreadnought - Gal X eqivilant
Shuttle/scorpion fighter - For any shuttle based events
Player Races:
Romulan
Reman
Hirogen
Alien
starbase wise... im happy with the efault one... dump it over rator III and walaa.
uhhh pvp... thats the devs problem.
pve stf stuff... again devs problem.
Fleets - Federation: No Fleet - KDF: Yan-Isleth
Yes of course, it slipped my find. that would be an important part of any faction.
The.Grand.Nagus
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: NPW Forums
An Endgame faction is a waste of space for me. I'm neither a raider nor a PvPer. Mission content is my favorite part of the game, with some Foundry, Duty Officer missions, and exploration mixed in.
Rather than an endgame faction, I'd rather have shared missions (if we can't have faction-specific storylines) than nothing but dailies and STFs.
I enjoy STO; recently I've been playing it more than the other two MMOs I play. But I have multiple characters at different levels and keep activities blended to keep it fresh for a while.
However, if storyline missions are no longer on the board, I know CoH has hundreds of storyline missions and LOTRO has at least a couple thousand quests and the option of different leveling paths for different characters. They'll take my money, I'm sure.
I just enjoy STO enough I don't want to give up on the content team just yet. Here's hoping for a robust story-focused Season 7.:)
That Sir is Just wrong on Sooo Many Levels !
I could have been fine till seeing that
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
Seeing as how it's a minifaction anyway without a true start up experience, they could simply restrict new Romulan characters to only players with either a lvl 50 FED or KDF character. That way you would already have the financials to support it, and the experience to play it.
The klingon faction is available at level 24 for feds. Make the Rommys available when you hit klingon level 35. The cardassians available at level 45 and the dominion available at level 50. That way, you have to play that faction to get the next faction.
You misunderstand, I'm not talking player experience with the game, but character experience and resources.
Like people questioned earlier, you gotta get BOFFs and enough experience to level them up to access the Commander BOFF skills. Then build up your DOFFs and Dilithum. Other than that, the its easy to buy stuff off the exchange or twink from your other characters.
Starting them at level 50 I am for, this would give them NO reasources and only basic gear which would make perfect sense as their homeworld has been destroyed and they are having to put the majority of their resources towards colonization, repopulization, and regrowing their military. As a Romulan captain you would have to really prove yourself to gain equipment from your government or acquire it by other means.
I think it would be difficult to make it Romulan or Reman, alot of them don't see eye to eye, likewise I don't think you could have Reman Bridge Officers as being very common. Hirogen on the other hand could be both a playable captain or a common Bridge Officer. Remans would work for Duty Officers however. I don't think making Aliens as playable Captains is a good idea either as it doesn't seem to fit with the Romulans.
A reason for a Romulan to do the various cut/paste storylines: The Romulan Empire wants to prove that they are still a force to be reckoned with even though they have suffered such a huge loss, so they send what forces they can abroad to prove their strength in the universe.
No matter what happens with a Romulan faction coming out, I will be initially VERY happy, and would be willing to pay zen to get not only an additional character slot, but a Romulan specific one. Which would also make sense as a way of further limiting the Romulan population as there would not be a whole lot of them running around the universe. (Especially after we killed so many because we've redone the Romulan storyline so often). This comes to my main point, if you want a new faction, prove that it will be profitable. The developers constantly remind everyone that KDF is not that profitable, therefore little resources go to it. Why would they create yet another faction that has little profit potential. Another profit-based suggestion: Have two or three ships avaliable for free, very basic and generic ships, put the rest of them in the store. If the fun is there, the story exsists, and its exciting, i'm more than willing to pay.
Sure they do, and so does the KDF. Unfortunately that simply isnt going to happen. So the choices becomes "mini" Rom faction or *no* Rom faction. I'm guessing the majority would choose the former.
The.Grand.Nagus
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: NPW Forums
and if it turns out to be a sucsess we could ask for a carda..... undine mini faction.;)
"The ships hung in the sky in much the same way that bricks don't."
Oh come on, I know you used the Foundry before, and making new missions with existing assets don't take months. Cryptic just need to remain modest, they could release some missions for the KDF side (such as Alpha), it won't take months to make 10 or so missions. It will take designers and artists time to make new maps (and maps only) for sure, but they hired several in the past months, so, why not? They love focusing on content people never asked for (aka starbases), it's time to make some content we, players, want, now.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
Yes it will take months, and it will require a large portion of the team. 10 missions at 2 weeks per mission would be at around 5 months work and at the end of the day its still only 10 missions that players could burn through in a day. You cant use the foundry as an example of how real game development works. its very different and much much more complex.
If they could make all these missions as fast as people suggest then they would, but they cant despite what the foundry leads you to believe.
Starbases has been a a hotly requested feature since day 1.
While I cannot remember the actual time table explained to me (damn 6-hour flight; so excuse me if this information is bad), I recall it taking almost six weeks per mission. Once you include asset creation, level design, QA testing, ect.
___________________________
In game: Commadore_Bob; Joined Jul 2009; That post count + 20,000
So they've created a system that allows them to make fantastic missions, but it takes too long to make them so we just won't do it? How is this efficient? What is the point of all these assets if they can't use them to immerse their players in the game world? I truly hope that he was talking about more complex FEs (which often use new mechanics, etc.), not regular episode arcs.
In fairness, part of the issue, I think, is that everything is instanced. I know a content designer for another major MMO has told me on a number of occasions that landscape missions -- even those with cool mechanics and storyline -- are a lot easier and less resource-intensive to make than instances.
Cryptic is also caught between a rock and a hardplace: Some of us contend that they should be able to reuse and combine existing assets to create new content. As long as the storyline and activities are different, there is no reason why the same landscape, base, etc., can't be used again for a new story.
However, then they run into players who complain that because the environment looks the same, it's not really a different mission. This is false, of course, but it can become a perception issue.
Part of the problem is that STO with it's development time constraints released with less storyline content and fewer missions than most other MMOs do -- and they have not been able to make up the gap.
What they seem to be doing instead is driving people rapidly to the level cap and making this and "endgame" MMO. That is, turning out easier to make dailies for teams with minimal story and such, and expecting us to just play them over and over and over again. That is not what I look for in an MMO.
I still hold out high hope for Season 7 being a story-focused season as DStahl said. The mechanics and system development they've done adds still more that can be used to create tremendous storyline and mission content.
You make it sound like there is something significantly inefficient about either their staffing or content development system. Why can other MMOs (with similar sized staffs) produce more storyline content in five months than Cryptic (going by your comments above)? Or is this in reference to the time it takes for new FEs which do rely a lot on new assets and tech?
If you have only one writer who spends two weeks on a story, then yes, I can see where you are coming from. But if you have three or four writers and controls on the use/creation of new assets (not every mission needs completely new assets), then you can produce more content in the same period of time.
DStahl has stated that Season 7 is story-focused; that should give those of use who thrive on story/episode content reason for hope.
Another thing that might help if they are truly strapped with regard to mission creation is to give more reward to Foundry missions (that meet certain criteria; enter a mission and click a glowy would not qualify). Make the Foundry an viable (albeit slower) leveling path for those not focused on endgame supremacy might help some. It can't replace fully developed dev content, but at least would give an alternative to the repetitive endgame hamster wheel and give the devs more time to work on official storylines.
I like the idea of starting off at the Captain (RSE Commander?) level. If there's no progression whatsoever, it's a bit boring.
I also like the idea of a Romulan player accessing another faction's storylines as an "undercover" agent, although a lot of the dialogue would be really off.
A Rom faction would be the perfect excuse to do other-faction content by introducing the time-tested Star Trek notion of a "surgical tailor". My idea is that you could do missions that unlock a "surgical alteration" tailor slot to resemble certain races. Once you've been surgically altered to look like an Orion, for example, you can do KDF missions and even access the Klingon homeworld as if you were KDF. Of course you could even have access to a variety of holoemitters to make your ship look like that of another faction.
Heck, you could even start a Romulan character off as a deep cover operative. Let them effectively function as a Starfleet or KDF officer until they level up into the high-level Romulan content.
It would take some nasty coding to pull off, but it might be less time-intensive than trying to build a full set of missions.
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Yeah. My guess is that one FE series takes upwards of $250 million in cash, which is too much to give away for free or not to be replayed heavily.
This is one reason I DO favor asset/locale recycling and constantly pushing for innovative content delivery approaches.
I think STO needs to emphasize story more than other MMOs but needs ways of doing that without costing substantially more to make than other MMOs.
I favor some kind of ground event/story hybrid. I also favor a ship interior makeover that mirrors what we're seeing with fleet starbases, with some twists. (For example, I think Fleet Tier shuttles and Super-Rare quality bridge officers and doffs would be something you'd see in place of the kinds of rewards you'd see on a starbase.)