(Fleet) Aquarius Destroyer Speculation/Discussion.

sdkraust · July 2012

It blows.

This is an interesting little thing from what we have for specs but its going to take a while to get because it requires T4 Shipyard.

Basically we have

Aquarius Destroyer vs Fleet Aquarius Destroyer

Requirements: 200K Fleet Marks (20K + 4 FSM for Fleet)
Fore/Aft Weapons: 4/2 (4/2)
Base Hull: 24000 (26400)
Shield Modifier: 0.66 (0.72)
Base Crew: 50 (50)
Base Turn: 16 (16)
Device Slots: 2 (2)

Boff Stations: Cmdr Tactical / Lt. Cmdr Tactical / Lt Eng / Lt Eng / Ensign Eng
Consoles 3x Eng / 4x Tac / 2x Sci (4x Eng / 4x Tac / 2x Sci)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Right away, I think Tank Escort but only 2 Aft Weapons is a bit weird for a T5 Ship.
Also has lower hull / shields than a Advanced Escort. Is this supposed to be even remotely good?

hakaishinlegion · July 2012

This is a BOP without the Universal BOFFs, 1 less weapon, and no cloak.

Completely worthless. There are better T4 (Cap-RA) ships.

Definitely not worth the VA TRIBBLE.

ussultimatum · July 2012

hakaishinlegion wrote: »

This is a BOP without the Universal BOFFs, 1 less weapon, and no cloak.

Completely worthless. There are better T4 (Cap-RA) ships.

Definitely not worth the VA TRIBBLE.

This.

I hope no one buys it, so the devs will realize how much of a failure of a design it is.

It makes no sense at all to be a VA ship with those stats and its as Hakaishin says: a BoP with all the weaknesses and none of the benefits.

Wait scratch that, actually it has WORSE shields than a Hegh'ta, even the Fleet Version has worse shields than a Hegh'ta.

Easily one of the most overpriced sucker buys available.

hakaishinlegion · July 2012

ussultimatum wrote: »

This.

I hope no one buys it, so the devs will realize how much of a failure of a design it is.

It makes no sense at all to be a VA ship with those stats and its as Hakaishin says: a BoP with all the weaknesses and none of the benefits.

Wait scratch that, actually it has WORSE shields than a Hegh'ta, even the Fleet Version has worse shields than a Hegh'ta.

Easily one of the most overpriced sucker buys available.

Sad part is, you know some PvE/RP queen out there will buy it.

aethon3050 · July 2012

hakaishinlegion wrote: »

Sad part is, you know some PvE/RP queen out there will buy it.

Yo Hakaishinlegion, I'm really happy for you, and Imma let you finish, but the B'Rel Refit was the greatest C-store flop of all time. OF ALL TIME!

Gotta agree that this thing sounds pointless, though.

zekesulastin · July 2012

Most of the low-tier retrofits are pointless; continuing the escort theme, compare both versions of the refit tier-2 fedscort to the free RA Patrol Escort.

esuzi · July 2012

First off: Unless I'm incredibly mistaken, the boffs are LtC/Cmd Tac, Lt Engi, Ens/Lt Uni.

Secondly:
Yeah I don't get this ship whatsoever, so much potential wasted for no real reason.
If I were to do design the ships layout, we'd have something like this:

Fore/Aft Weapons: 4/2 (4/2)
Base Hull: 22000 (24200)
Shield Modifier: 0.8 (0.88)
Base Crew: 50 (50)
Base Turn: 20 (20)
Device Slots: 2 (2)

Boff Stations:LtC/Cmd Tac, Lt Eng, Lt Sci, Ens Universal
Consoles: 3 Eng, 3 Sci, 3(4) Tac

While this wouldn't be an amazing ship, it's near BoP turn rate would definitely make it fun to fly.
I would even consider Cmd Tac, Lt/Lt/LtC Universal for boffs, to give it some extra flexibility without completely mirroring a BoP.

It should be noted, there's absolutely NO reason for this ship to this underpowered. The Hoh'sus (Bortas' lil buddy) received incredibly reasonable stats. They are both coming from the same source, neither are low tier retrofits, there's no reason for these stats.

sonicshower · July 2012

it doesnt seem that bad if your running an all energy weapon build on this ship. One less turret = less power drain which adds to more power for your current weapons that are firing. If you have even flown a bird of prey youll see its not all that bad. Its not much to give up for a bit more speed and manueverability

esuzi · July 2012

sonicshower wrote: »

it doesnt seem that bad if your running an all energy weapon build on this ship. One less turret = less power drain which adds to more power for your current weapons that are firing. If you have even flown a bird of prey youll see its not all that bad. Its not much to give up for a bit more speed and manueverability

Except you're also giving up a bunch of hull and shields, for no additional speed or maneuverability.

zekesulastin · July 2012

There _MIGHT_ be additional maneuverability, depending on the hidden inertia modifier; I wouldn't bet on it though. Also, don't BoPs get that nifty little battle cloak?

dalnar83 · July 2012

It's sad attempt for a fed Bop, without full universal slots and battlecloak. Just drain the ZENs out of fanboys for useless ship.

sdkraust · July 2012

My mistake, those are Universal slots.
That's why it sucks so much.

mandrake45 · July 2012

Universal slots make it suck more?

proteus22 · July 2012

the only reason to get this ship is if it comes with quad cannons like the one from the odessey class escort pet so you could harvest them and put on a more decent escort a fleet patrol esort with two quads and a dual heavy and a fleet quantum torp up front would be a monster

dalnar83 · July 2012

You can only equip single quad cannons, no matter how many you have.

ussultimatum · July 2012

sonicshower wrote: »

it doesnt seem that bad if your running an all energy weapon build on this ship. One less turret = less power drain which adds to more power for your current weapons that are firing. If you have even flown a bird of prey youll see its not all that bad. Its not much to give up for a bit more speed and manueverability

I think you missed a few things.

1) Aquarius Base Turn = 16 vs. Hegh'ta Base Turn = 21
2) Hegh'ta gets innate Battle Cloak vs. Aquarius gets Nothing
3) Aquarius Shield Mod = 0.66 (regular) & 0.72 (Fleet) vs. RA Hegh'ta Shield Mod 0.8
4) Hegh'ta completely universal BOFF stations including Commander & Lt Commander vs. Aquarius with Uni Lt & Ensign.
5) Hegh'ta 120k dilithium or free choice at level up vs. Aquarius at 2K Z points and T4 Fleet Shipyard.

The Aquarius is a Hegh'ta with no battle cloak and no special ability at all with even less shields than the Hegh'ta and less turn rate than a Defiant - much less a Hegh'ta.

Enhanced battle cloak, which grants both an offense bonus as well as a defense tool to compensate for poor survivability is no where to be found on this ship, nor is any equivalent ability of comparable power.

The design of this ship fails on multiple levels, on top of that it costs 2k Z points for ONE character and requires a T4 Fleet ship yard!

hakaishinlegion · July 2012

ussultimatum wrote: »

I think you missed a few things.

1) Aquarius Base Turn = 16 vs. Hegh'ta Base Turn = 21
2) Hegh'ta gets innate Enhanced Battle Cloak vs. Aquarius gets Nothing
3) Aquarius Shield Mod = 0.66 (regular) & 0.72 (Fleet) vs. RA Hegh'ta Shield Mod 0.8
4) Hegh'ta completely universal BOFF stations including Commander & Lt Commander vs. Aquarius with Uni Lt & Ensign.
5) Hegh'ta 120k dilithium or free choice at level up vs. Aquarius at 2K Z points and T4 Fleet Shipyard.

The Aquarius is a Hegh'ta with no battle cloak and no special ability at all with even less shields than the Hegh'ta and less turn rate than a Defiant - much less a Hegh'ta.

Enhanced battle cloak, which grants both an offense bonus as well as a defense tool to compensate for poor survivability is no where to be found on this ship, nor is any equivalent ability of comparable power.

The design of this ship fails on multiple levels, on top of that it costs 2k Z points for ONE character and requires a T4 Fleet ship yard!

Just when I was about to call all of you thinking about getting this ship a complete and total flock of morons, ussultimatum does it for me, just a bit more polite than I'd have been.

So, I'll just go on record to say... ultimatum's right, and those of you praising/considering this ship are morons. Truth does not need to be polite.

sesshoseki7 · July 2012

aethon3050 wrote: »

Yo Hakaishinlegion, I'm really happy for you, and Imma let you finish, but the B'Rel Refit was the greatest C-store flop of all time. OF ALL TIME!

Gotta agree that this thing sounds pointless, though.

A very interesting, and dubious, claim given that Cryptic/PWE (and Atari prior to that) were not overly keen on posting ANY of their C-store sales data.

More over, I see B'Rel refits -ALL THE TIME-, right up there with Kar'Fi and Guramba...

I have no doubt the B'Rel sold less units than the Dreadnought or the Armitage, but they weren't a flop...

The hyperbolic claim in no way covers for the statement being false...

ferdzso0 · July 2012

best part is, if we cry loud enough, Cryptic might give a cloak to this, so it will be like the BoP.

but they will only give a cloak, not a battle cloak, as a console (hell, they might go for the defiant one, so you have to buy the defiant too). so it will be pretty much a fail, but less ppl will feel butthurt

dknight0001 · July 2012

hakaishinlegion wrote: »

This is a BOP without the Universal BOFFs, 1 less weapon, and no cloak.

Completely worthless. There are better T4 (Cap-RA) ships.

Definitely not worth the VA TRIBBLE.

The BoP has 4/2 Weapons load out too.

ferdzso0 wrote: »

best part is, if we cry loud enough, Cryptic might give a cloak to this, so it will be like the BoP.

but they will only give a cloak, not a battle cloak, as a console (hell, they might go for the defiant one, so you have to buy the defiant too). so it will be pretty much a fail, but less ppl will feel butthurt

What possible logical reason could there be to add a cloaking device to this ship? CBS has said no to Federation cloaking the Defiant R and Galaxy X are exceptions to this rule because on screen they did in fact have cloaking devices. Crying will not have an effect here, Starfleet don't use Cloaking Devices KDF does.

Just another note on useless/pointless ships here, the Bortasqu Hoh'Sus Bird of Prey has also been made, it's got the same layout as a Hegh'tha (Standard BoP) and a weaker hull and shields. It doesn't turn better or anything and yet it exists.

I'm scratching my head here, why would they make the detachables into Fleet ships can I sneak a 6th guy into a 5 man if he's docked with me?

markhawkman · July 2012

Feds have Boff skill that works like cloaking, even though it *isn't* cloaking. I could see them giving a Mask Energy Signature type effect to Aquarius.

ussultimatum · July 2012

dknight0001 wrote: »

The BoP has 4/2 Weapons load out too.

I guess you managed to miss this, seeing as it was a few posts above yours.

I'll post it again, maybe it will start to sink into people's heads.

ussultimatum wrote: »

I think you missed a few things.

1) Aquarius Base Turn = 16 vs. Hegh'ta Base Turn = 21
2) Hegh'ta gets innate Enhanced Battle Cloak vs. Aquarius gets Nothing
3) Aquarius Shield Mod = 0.66 (regular) & 0.72 (Fleet) vs. RA Hegh'ta Shield Mod 0.8
4) Hegh'ta completely universal BOFF stations including Commander & Lt Commander vs. Aquarius with Uni Lt & Ensign.
5) Hegh'ta 120k dilithium or free choice at level up vs. Aquarius at 2K Z points and T4 Fleet Shipyard.

The Aquarius is a Hegh'ta with no battle cloak and no special ability at all with even less shields than the Hegh'ta and less turn rate than a Defiant - much less a Hegh'ta.

Enhanced battle cloak, which grants both an offense bonus as well as a defense tool to compensate for poor survivability is no where to be found on this ship, nor is any equivalent ability of comparable power.

The design of this ship fails on multiple levels, on top of that it costs 2k Z points for ONE character and requires a T4 Fleet ship yard!

dknight0001 wrote: »

What possible logical reason could there be to add a cloaking device to this ship?

To make this ship even remotely usable?

It's pointless now.

dknight0001 wrote: »

Just another note on useless/pointless ships here, the Bortasqu Hoh'Sus Bird of Prey has also been made, it's got the same layout as a Hegh'tha (Standard BoP) and a weaker hull and shields. It doesn't turn better or anything and yet it exists.

Take another look, and compare it to the Hegh'ta.

Hint: Look for red, look for bold.

Fleet Hoh'sus Bird Of Prey

Commander - Uni
Lt Commander - Uni
Lieutenant - Uni
Lieutenant - Uni

Engineering: 3
Tactical: 4
Science: 3

Weapons
Fore: 4
Aft: 2

Turn: 21
Hull: 24750
Crew: 75
Device Slots: 2
Shield Mod: 0.88

In case you were counting, that's 10 console slots and a higher shield mod than the Hegh'ta.

toiva · July 2012

I guess dknight0001 was looking at the non-fleet version of the Hoh'sus, which is, in fact, inferior to the Hegh'ta (except it has 4 tac console slots, if I remember right).

The fleet Hoh'sus is an improved Hegh'ta (that I would want to get, if it weren't for the exorbitant price of Tier 4 shipyard and 4 fleet modules).

Also, notice there are three flavors of cloak. Basic cloak (that most Klingon ships have), Battle cloak (that most BoPs have) and an Enhanced Battle Cloak (that only the B'rel retrofit has). (EDIT: And yes, other masking possibilities as well on both FED and KDF ships.)

And to the topic: While I appreciate the Aquarius is not a new overpowered escort with 10 weapon slots and 5 hangars, well, ... they could have made it competitive. Which it is not.

These stats actually remind me the ridicule shuttle-like stats of the Fleet Ning'tao BoP, that is, until one notices its unique universal Boff layout.

ussultimatum · July 2012

toiva wrote: »

I guess dknight0001 was looking at the non-fleet version of the Hoh'sus

He might have been.

The point remains that even the Fleet Aquarius is completely inferior to the free Hegh'ta.

It has no redeeming qualities, only drawbacks.

markhawkman · July 2012

I'm gonna compare it with the patrol escort..

Patrol escort
Boffs: 4t 3t 1e 2e 2s
consoles: 3e 4t 2s
weapons: f4 a3
hull: 31000
shield modifier 0.9
base crew 200
base turn 12
device slots 2
abilities: +15 power to weapons, can use cannons

Pretty standard Escort ship, a little better at Eng than most.

Fleet Patrol Escort
Boffs: 4t 3t 2e 2s 1u
consoles: 4e4t2s
weapons: f4a3
hull: 34100
shield modifier .99
base crew 200
base turn 16
device slots 2
abilities: +15 w power, cannons
requires fleet SY 1

a not-quite-standard Fleet upgrade. it has the normal +10% boost to shields and hull, and an extra (Eng)console slot. Non-standard features: the 1E station was converted to a 1U station, it gives flexibility, but not more powers. Also, unless my numbers are wrong, it has a higher base turn.

Aquarius Destroyer
Boffs: 4t 3t 2e 2u 1u
consoles: 3e 4t 2s
weapons: f4 a2
hull: 24000
shield modifier .66
base crew 50
base turn 16
device slots 2
abilities: +15 w power, cannons
requires fleet SY 4

Higher base turn, and universal slots. In all other ways it's pretty much inferior. It has 3/4 the hull, and less than 3/4 the shields, it also has one less weapon. Also it has a pitiful number of crew... 50???

Fleet Aquarius Destroyer
Boffs: 4t 3t 2e 2u 1u
consoles: 4e 4t 2s
weapons: f4 a2
hull: 26400
shield modifier .72
base crew 50
base turn 16
device slots 2
abilities: +15 w power, cannons
requires fleet SY 4

This is a standard fleet upgrade. +1 console, +10% hull and shields, but upgrading TRIBBLE doesn't make it good.

toiva · July 2012

ussultimatum wrote: »

He might have been.

The point remains that even the Fleet Aquarius is completely inferior to the free Hegh'ta.

It has no redeeming qualities, only drawbacks.

Agreed.

The only advantage it has over the Hegh'ta is the 4 tac console slots compared to Hegh'ta's 3. But given it won't be alive long enough, it still won't do more damage.

Well, isn't the Fleet Defiant also at Shipyard Tier 4? Would you rather the looks of Aquarius or 5 tac console slots?

markhawkman · July 2012

I'd go with the Defiant upgrade over Aquarius, but realistically, I'll probably end up using the FPE... FPE is available at level 1 shipyard, AND it doesn't cost Z-points.

dknight0001 · July 2012

I think I was looking at the non Fleet version of the Hoh'Sus, but isn't there also a fleet version of the Hegh'Tha.

I'm usually doing these ships from memory as I don't have the updated charts with the new fleet ships in.

Also I was of the Opinion that the Hegh'Tha had .90 Shield Strength.

To make the Aquarius competitive is not a logical reason to give the ship a cloaking device although it's definitely a practical one.

Logic - as Supported by Star Trek Cannon
Practical - as Supported by Star Trek Online being fun and fair to play.

ussultimatum · July 2012

dknight0001 wrote: »

Logic - as Supported by Star Trek Cannon
Practical - as Supported by Star Trek Online being fun and fair to play.

I'm OK with it not getting a cloaking device.

I'm not OK with it being less survivable, less maneuverable & less customizable than ships that get battle cloaks as compensation for how they are designed.

This ship needs higher turn rate at the barest minimum (20 to 24), and then it needs something on par with battle cloak for both offense/defense purposes otherwise it will remain a joke of a ship that actually requires you to be VA to fly.

markhawkman · July 2012

Or steal a trick from an alien-of-the-week...

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Baran%27s_mercenary_vessel

That had a hull plating that made it invisible of long range sensors.

It's NOT cloaking but it serves much the same purpose.

irre00nudel · December 2013

hi !

i checked this topic SOOO often .. and tried the several ideas of builds for fleet aquarius but still it feels a bit uhm ... it seems to break fast still ..

first of all : who am i?

my name is anja, i ve played STO for almost 2 years

im a bit fleetjumper in sto .. when i get bored or smell problems i "jump" away ;D no worry i spent a lot into all my fleets ;D

my chars are:
- fed - sci- bajoran
- kdf - tak - orion
- kdf - sci - romulan

my fed char is my mainchar .. atm i use this ship :

http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=anjasfleetnovanoodle_0

hmm im not sure about the fleetdeflector .. atm is maintancetime <.<
oh and i use romulan sci konsole to increase shieldhealing and plasmadamage

for the past months i thought about a build for fleet aquarius because i like the design of that lil ship

but till now i did not find a build which made at least same damage as the nova + as tanky as flet prometheus or defiant >.<

i post the build i tried for fleet aquarius last time ( i tried urs too but it still has a problem with getting aggro because of the damage - in case i use a build with a lot damage like the trikobaltone)

http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=anjasfleetaquathing_0

why do i use this build atm?
well ..
2x hazardemitter -> VS plasmadebuff + hullhealing
1x sci team -> VS subnuke by voths + shieldhealing (shields down, aquarius dead )
2x beam overload for dual beambank to push damage a bit since my fed sci is only energywep skilled ..
2x scatter volley do to some DPS with the HDCs while beamoverload reloads
emergency energy to wep/shields -> to be wepenergy and shieldresi buffed ... ( i use 3x purple doff here to keep low the CD )

2 other doffs i use to get shieldheal when i get ready for impact...

weps:

dualbeambank
- i use to do some normal damage even when i am not yet in effektive firerange for cannons (low impulsemodifier)
- i use dual beambank for the overload skills to do some good damage to the enemies in the moments their shields r down
- i use dual beambank for the overload to do some good damage on gates in STfs

3x hdc
well .. for scatter voley of course

1x kinetic beam
hmm it has 360radius so it fires always and does good damage on enemies when their shields r down

1x singlebam
- when i use overload the wepenergy is down, still the hdc can fire .. i think if i use turret it might decrease the damage of the 3hdc after using beam overload ... so the questing is weather the damagelose coz of another -8 wepenergy is HIGHER than the damage 3xhdc+1xturret would do ...

- another thought had been when i need to turn the ship to get other target in cannonrange the singlebeam is able to do atleast 1.3k as long as i cannot use the 45radius cannons and the 90radius dualbeam ..

i even wonder weather i could increase its passive hullreg with a second sif generator ... or maybe i should move borgconsole to sci consoles and keep just 1x +17.5% shieldstrength ... BUT put 2x sif console to the free tech slots .. so in summery it would be 3x sif console <.<

that way i could "tank" a bit more aggro and no need to be at 60% after plasmatorpburning -.-

i tried a fireatwill concept too ... which did GOOD damage BUT the lil aquarius had not been able to "tank" the aggro which it got by its good fireatwill damage ..

IF it had totally universal BOs i would make it :

tac com
TT1, fireatwill2, fireatwill3, beta3

tac ensign
TT1

lt com sci
hazard1, transfer shields2, hazard3

lt sci
polarize hull1, transfer shields2

lt eng
emergency power to wep + shields

that way it could tank the aggro it would get by fireatwill concept >.<
but the BOs r not all universal ;(

well ... anymore ideas how i could run that lil bird?

(Fleet) Aquarius Destroyer Speculation/Discussion.

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