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mav's hate of the bugship
thishorizon
Member Posts: 1,158
mavs hate of the bug, is well, as we are becoming to realize.....quite legendary. and his argument has merit... or does it?
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Jem'Hadar_fighter
http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Jem'Hadar_fighter
http://www.startrek.com/database_article/jemhadar-attack-ship
http://www.stowiki.org/Jem'Hadar_Attack_Ship
thats all there is on it i think. i understand that making ships special for game purposes is needed, but i think they actually were trying to be close to canon with this i... think. there may be a few small stat adjustments so that it doesnt draw so much OP hate. (where my odyssey haters at?)
what i gathered...
-it needed to fight in groups
-had a def dish that prevented it from being tractored
-more agility than everything but a runabout
-size of a b'rel
-had a antiproton array to decloak
-had transporter tech that ignored shields
-intended to equip beams and torps
-phased polaron has increased shield penetration
-outfitted with a breen dissapator
a couple of comments that stood out:
"Extremely sturdy, these warships were capable of surviving the impact onto a planet's surface."
"Jem'Hadar fighters were relatively easy for a large starship to destroy. A few solid phaser or photon torpedo hits were enough to cripple or destroy one, therefore, they usually operated in groups of two or three during routine operations"
so i think they got a few of those "theoretically" correct, a couple of things i guess they could have thrown in with the game engine.
but it "feels" like its performing like one of these: http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Jem%27Hadar_strike_cruiser
so, what would it take to get some heat off of this ship?
less hull? prolly best option
1 less engie console?
reduce turnrate?
and would you give it a lil toy to compensate? (im looking at you, oddy and bortas guys)
either way, they are not going away, and until people start taking to the new fleet ships. i like the layout of that aquarius class ??? fleet escort. looks nice to me.
have fun kill bad guys
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Jem'Hadar_fighter
http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Jem'Hadar_fighter
http://www.startrek.com/database_article/jemhadar-attack-ship
http://www.stowiki.org/Jem'Hadar_Attack_Ship
thats all there is on it i think. i understand that making ships special for game purposes is needed, but i think they actually were trying to be close to canon with this i... think. there may be a few small stat adjustments so that it doesnt draw so much OP hate. (where my odyssey haters at?)
what i gathered...
-it needed to fight in groups
-had a def dish that prevented it from being tractored
-more agility than everything but a runabout
-size of a b'rel
-had a antiproton array to decloak
-had transporter tech that ignored shields
-intended to equip beams and torps
-phased polaron has increased shield penetration
-outfitted with a breen dissapator
a couple of comments that stood out:
"Extremely sturdy, these warships were capable of surviving the impact onto a planet's surface."
"Jem'Hadar fighters were relatively easy for a large starship to destroy. A few solid phaser or photon torpedo hits were enough to cripple or destroy one, therefore, they usually operated in groups of two or three during routine operations"
so i think they got a few of those "theoretically" correct, a couple of things i guess they could have thrown in with the game engine.
but it "feels" like its performing like one of these: http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Jem%27Hadar_strike_cruiser
so, what would it take to get some heat off of this ship?
less hull? prolly best option
1 less engie console?
reduce turnrate?
and would you give it a lil toy to compensate? (im looking at you, oddy and bortas guys)
either way, they are not going away, and until people start taking to the new fleet ships. i like the layout of that aquarius class ??? fleet escort. looks nice to me.
have fun kill bad guys
Post edited by thishorizon on
0
Comments
(once to repeal it's current buff and a second time to make it at least on par with a Cstore ship)
If it were me, I would remove the second Lt Uni and in it's place put in a Lt Sci, and put it's shields and hull at that of a Fleet Escort or Advanced Escort. (Pre Season 6 levels)
I don't mind it having the super agility, but it due to the universal is far far too sturdy. It's an Escort according to STO, it needs to have the fragility of one. Giving it Defiant levels of damage dealing and agility, while letting it trump the FEs durability shoots the ship creation system in the face or at least makes a mockery of it. To say nothing of what the 2x Unis make the BOP look like by comparison.
Canonically speaking they are tissue paper which is why they always fought in packs.
I hate the Oddy too but not as much as the Bug, because at least the Oddy..somewhat loosely (and I stress somewhat) follows the ship design paradigm. Now if it was agile like an Excelsior or Vorcha, you'd probably see me flying down to Cryptic studios and setting the place on fire between it and the Bug.
The bottom line is this MAV and the devs have already said it. Its a lockbox ship. People will spend money on something that is tangible. Why would they risk spending large sums of money for something average?
They might as well just buy the c-store ship on offer and be done with it. Cyptic are not going to turnaround on their largest revenue stream, you think?
The passion and veal you have towards the Jemmy, as a KDF escort pilot I have been harbouring those same feelings against the Defaints, the Fleet Escorts, the MVAMs, and now the Carrier-Esc's of this game for a very long time. Finally, I have a ship I can level the playing fields in, and I'm going to.
Is it pay-2-win, sadly yes. But we all knew that was on the horizon, when they started with it. It's PWE's modus operandi. Is it game breaking, I don't think so. Are the queues inundating with Jemmy's like another OP ship? No.
But people also spend money on Cstore ships.
At present they are wasting server space on Cstore ships, because the Bug is better than all of them.
The Bug will still "sell" like hotcakes if it were on par with a 15 dollar ship simply due to the fact, that there's a chance you can score it for much much less than the price of a cstore ship. Ontop of this they are in the process of Always Giving You Something Nice in a lockbox (allegeldy). So even if you don't score a bug you should hypothetically be getting something Nice.
Also, they are obviously not giving up on cstore ships given the Zen Ship Tokens that you have to buy in order to buy a Fleet Ship (in addition to grinding. They put the Fleet Ships in the game to buy it another six months of life or so, it's pretty obvious really, and they put the Tokens in to make $ off of the ships in the process). You spend around the same price for a Fleet ship as you do a Cstore ship, + the grinding involved.
The Bug as it stands right now, cuts into the entire purpose of the Fleet Ship Tokens, and the Grinding incentive. By frankly making there be 0 incentive to grind, when you can potentially score a bug in under five minutes.
Also, as a side note the "buy it on the exchange and that takes time and effort to get the EC required!" argument is weak at best. There are any number of Gold Sites to buy EC from. No EC farming required. Also someone else, still shelled out way more $ than brains to get a lockbox ship to post on the exchange.
It's two Very Different business models clashing head on.
[Kluless][Kold][Steel Heels][Snagtooth]
[Louis Cipher][Outta Gum][Thysa Kymbo][Spanner][Frakk]
[D'Mented][D'Licious]
Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
R.I.P
I don't feel well and it makes me grumpy and bitter.
R.I.P
Dude, who in the hell are you kidding. The bug doesn't even the playing field, it's ridiculously OP. im a KDF player and the Guramba (and the plasmonic leech) was evening the playing field until the broke TRIBBLE Armitage hit the scene, and honest even it would be fine if they didn't allow it to use Danubes.
The Bug is ridiculous. It's has the best mobility, best survivability, the best BO layout, and best damage out of any escort in the game. It tips the scales, it doesn't even them.
This is what, the fifth, sixth thread about how OP the Jemmy is? Why is there now another one? What can we all talk about here that hasn't been said 5-6 damn times already? This guy ^ puts it the same way I have in the other threads and I think is right. It's not the worst thing they've ever done to annoy PVPers, and I'm sure it won't be the last time everyone is rubbed the wrong way. But the fact is they are here, they have been buffed (rightly or wrongly at the beginning) and that's it. Would the next gen of fleet ships stop me using a BUG? No, I wanted it more then anything at Q's Winter Wonderland and despite many fleet members searching on my behalf I never got it. Then the promo happened and I snapped one up. Frankly, at the price they were on the first day anyone would. Would I stop using it because of better ships coming in? Not likely, Will I stop using it now that it's been buffed and some members of the community have been kind enough to keep feeding little bits of advice about them? **** no lol.
It's here to stay, can we stop having more useless threads about this? It's boring.
@Aquitaine985
Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre.
2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
Nope, we're going to keep trying to tear them down, because they deserve to be torn down.
I am abit bored by how the owners keep coming into these threads and giving absolute no justification to the ships power... But think they should stay that way, "because I have one..."
This is the big point of "but its a big money ships!, lockboxes, grahgrah!"
D'Kora's and Galors are more or less slightly better Excels/Vorchas with some nifty toys too. Yet they are not so much better that they trivialize the Excel or Vorcha.
The Bug on the other hand completely makes a mockery of every other escort in the game. It is the clear end all be all of pewpew.
It has the best mobility of any ship out there.
It has top of the line durability for its class, on par/exceeded by some cruisers.
It has top of the the line damage capabilities for ANY class.
It has the best of everything, and no real downside. That is a classic "lolbalance" issue right there.
actually in my opinion, this is a horrible attitude sir.
i love flying escorts. all of them. and i would like to fly this one without getting flak for it. i like flying my viral matrix overload high yield MVAE, i like flying my tric bombing defiant, i like my tank akira.
i didnt bring it up again to complain, i brought it up again because a friend and valued member of the community has a big beef with it, and i like to fly it. that doesnt sit right with me. so i was wondering what small change could be made to take heat off of it.
have fun kill bad guys
it's the fact that it can be built to out tank almost everything without sacrificing Dps in the process that ticks me off so much about it.
I could honestly live with everything else on the bug.
slightly more maneuverable and versatile then the defiant, but a bit less durable. what it has now is the opposite of the stats all its screen time showed it should have.
Geez if you like flying escorts so much. All of them. Well how about you man up and and settle by not flying the one that doesn't sit right with you. I mean you brought it up. Your solution is right there. If flying it doesn't sit right than stop flying it.
Honestly, though, I dont really care for individual ships. Ive always stated my opinion on ALL ships (I think solutons in this game should be sought more widely rather then constantly targetting our lazors on individual things only.
My oppinion would be the following;
All ships available should have a seperate skill tree where you can distribute your points to specific 'base stats' of your ship.. Etc etc. same for consoles, where u have 1 or 2 points where you can spend them to move a console up or down (To sci or engi or whatever u want)
And make all the standard base stats of all the same type ships the same.
You really think I like that only 1 or 2 ships have the best stats in this game? No, you must have misunderstood me. Me of all people would like to see a system where everyone has the same good ship and also for myself, there is no diversity, but id love to take another cstore or 'fleet' ship wth the same good stats as a jemmy.
YOu know why? Because i like switching ships, fly with a new look from time to time. But Cryptic makes this impossible for PvPers because you do not step out of your jemmy or dkora to go to a ship with lesser stats.
But it will never happen, its a f2p game now. Lockbox ships are good paid ships so yes, the stats will always be better.
I will not interfere myself in more discussion as to why more of these threads are opened though, I think its futile, but i will let that particular discussion to you guys.
I think sitting on your hands and pretending nothing is wrong when it degrades the game's integrity is "a horrible attitude." You recognize the ship is overpowered, but instead of fixing that you want to simply "take the heat off it". You don't want it balanced, your putting your own personal enjoyment over the health of fairness of the game. That's a half measure sir, and I don't much care for half measures.., not to mention plain old selfish.
To each their own.
Am i the only one that thinks it weird that it has come this far
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
It must be truly terrible for them.
oh those poor, poor people that ether have to much EC or a gambling problem, with every face role they couldn't have done without the bug, its them that truly suffer. actually, for me i feel bad enough rolling people in non PTW excelsior and vorchas, i cant imagine how id feel if i had a bug.
never will there be an ounce of sympathy for bug users, you are using something more OP then all the PTW consoles combined. come to terms with the fact you deserve no sympathy, only scorn, and move on. you are not entitled to receive our approval, and you wont get it.
Who let the cows out? Who who, who who?
STO Forum member since before February 2010.
STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link
I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
I just hate how the balance and synergy between ships, fleets, and ship types are continuously thrown out the window for the sake of milking the bejeezus out of the population.
anyone who knows me, in the least, knows i hate PVE.
i did the missions to get the jem hadar ship set. just to have star trek fun.
there were boring as ****.
so i could just test it out. knowing it would suck.
4 hours wasted.
poo.
im running it.
Getting the Jem ship set is quite a different thing from getting the JHAS through use of bots and claiming it isn't OP.
Arawn - SOB
OP *is* the new balance, whether you know it or not! Gecko said so.
OP *is* the new balance, whether you know it or not! Gecko says so.
Season 7 - Exodus, available online. U buy nao!
http://seekingalpha.com/article/738221-monetizing-perfect-world-s-latest-update
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
ive heard of these bots, but im not sure what they are. playing the game and not really playing the game or something. idunno.
but i would like to fly the ship. i like the agility, i dont care about the layout to much...i just like to be all agile.
also i do think that it is too powerful. most do, and should be willing to see it take the nerf bat a bit.
Been spending too much time with my Targ LOL!
(hmm... maybe they should change the bug into a fighter/shuttle?
Yeah... this they didn't read... I scored a hit with a beam array on one, and it didn't get "destroyed" or "crippled"... :eek:
Someone should remind the devs that when one ship is extremely OP, they will sell less of the other ship types. So people will only buy one ship instead of multiple.
Try to be less obviously butthurt, I don't see ANYONE in the forums defending the BUG, I think we can all agree it's OP, even the owners can easily admit it. I do. But the fact is the argument is getting old, you can kick and scream as much as the next toddler if you wish though, the forums are becoming more fun to visit then the game these days.
Mav doesn't like the BUG ship, and he's given reasons I agree with. It's too flexible and kicks sand in the face of everyone in another escort below a certain level, I think it's wrong, but I'm sure as hell not going to complain.
If the boring "OMG LOLBUG is too OP roar!!111" carries on until Christmas when Cryptic say they plan to re-release the BUG for some sort of event, i'll just buy Mav one and he can be in the super-awesome-uber-purple Jemmy Owners Club! It's awesome - we get encoder rings and everything!
Next time you see me in the queues, just go ahead and lock a flaming pitchfork into your torpedo tube. The STO BUG cross-nailing event is set for 6PM. There will be chicken and I'm going out singing "Always look on the Bright side of Life"
@Aquitaine985
Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre.
2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
Bah the Bug is op ,(it is a bit) , put in the c store so I can buy one
Fed Random-Sci Monte-Eng Monte Banks-Tac
Klingon Warfarin-Sci Gamble-Tac
the 'i get the most pvp agro' line for bug users starts behind the line of us tac/cruiser users.
I don't even understand why your posting then. Just ignore the damn threads instead of acting like a butthurt two year old whining about the forums being used as forums.