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[Ask to Cryptic]Multi-Vector Escort and level 50 Escorts
revenant91
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Hi, i want to discuss and ask something about multi-vector escort...
I know we need to have a balanced game, but some units like this...are very bad for a high rank store item...
1)If we can't change equipment of other sections of the ship, for a balanced game,but why the other 2 section don't gain the phaser sub-effect???
2)Why if i'm using another type of weapon, the 2 sections use always phasers?
If game change the weapons into used type in automatic, where is the problem???
3)For balance the speed and turn rate of the 2 sections with my ship, why them can't have the same engines of my main ship?
4)Why the damage are too low for the 2 sections? If i leave them on a ship without my support they are unable to take down the enemy's shields...What type of support is this?
I know the balance point, but when i think to the multi-vector mode of the Voyager series...i remember a very powerfull ship...and now i don't see a big difference with the level 40 escorts...
When a player buy the store ship with cryptic, take it for increase his damage and battle efficiency, but i can't see a real difference between the level 40 and level 50 escort...so...why someone need to think to a store ship? i think we need a LITTLE difference of firepower between the 2 type of ships...
Same problems with the Heavy Carrier Escort and Fleet Escort....same configuration, same damage...and the help of fighters is very low...for their damage...
5)Why a level 50 ship as multi-vector have the third tactical station with a stupid level 1 ability??? If escorts use the cannons...what i can do with a stupid level 1 ability if them are only for beam array???
Example:
- Level 40 Free Escort with rapid fire 3+high yield 3+omega pattern 1
- Level 50 Cryptic Escort with rapid fire 3+high yield 1+omega pattern 1.
The skill configuration of the first ship have more firepower of the second ship.
In some case the special ability of the level 50 ship can balance the "little" lose of firepower. Some other times those abilities don't have this effect,so in that case the level 50 ship is only a lose of firepower.
Another problem is the crew!!! Why if i have 150 crew splitted in 3,my 2 pets can't auto-repair with their crew??? The repair rate of 50 of crew is very small,so i don't think to lose the balamce of game if my sub-units self-repair...
So why i lose 50 crew for all pieces of my ship? Only for fun??? They go to Risa???
Is my thoughts wrong guys?
I'm only trying to improve the game for all players,not only for me...
Suggestions:
-A little improvement for the A.I. of the 2 pet of the multi-vector is to run away when the enemy is destroyed... It's great when you destroy a cube and the 2 pets wait his explosion for die and i lose my very little support, and as you know the cooldown isn't very small for this ability;
-Need control of the pets action with a dedicated window and possibility to control their powers as the ground team.
I know we need to have a balanced game, but some units like this...are very bad for a high rank store item...
1)If we can't change equipment of other sections of the ship, for a balanced game,but why the other 2 section don't gain the phaser sub-effect???
2)Why if i'm using another type of weapon, the 2 sections use always phasers?
If game change the weapons into used type in automatic, where is the problem???
3)For balance the speed and turn rate of the 2 sections with my ship, why them can't have the same engines of my main ship?
4)Why the damage are too low for the 2 sections? If i leave them on a ship without my support they are unable to take down the enemy's shields...What type of support is this?
I know the balance point, but when i think to the multi-vector mode of the Voyager series...i remember a very powerfull ship...and now i don't see a big difference with the level 40 escorts...
When a player buy the store ship with cryptic, take it for increase his damage and battle efficiency, but i can't see a real difference between the level 40 and level 50 escort...so...why someone need to think to a store ship? i think we need a LITTLE difference of firepower between the 2 type of ships...
Same problems with the Heavy Carrier Escort and Fleet Escort....same configuration, same damage...and the help of fighters is very low...for their damage...
5)Why a level 50 ship as multi-vector have the third tactical station with a stupid level 1 ability??? If escorts use the cannons...what i can do with a stupid level 1 ability if them are only for beam array???
Example:
- Level 40 Free Escort with rapid fire 3+high yield 3+omega pattern 1
- Level 50 Cryptic Escort with rapid fire 3+high yield 1+omega pattern 1.
The skill configuration of the first ship have more firepower of the second ship.
In some case the special ability of the level 50 ship can balance the "little" lose of firepower. Some other times those abilities don't have this effect,so in that case the level 50 ship is only a lose of firepower.
Another problem is the crew!!! Why if i have 150 crew splitted in 3,my 2 pets can't auto-repair with their crew??? The repair rate of 50 of crew is very small,so i don't think to lose the balamce of game if my sub-units self-repair...
So why i lose 50 crew for all pieces of my ship? Only for fun??? They go to Risa???
Is my thoughts wrong guys?
I'm only trying to improve the game for all players,not only for me...
Suggestions:
-A little improvement for the A.I. of the 2 pet of the multi-vector is to run away when the enemy is destroyed... It's great when you destroy a cube and the 2 pets wait his explosion for die and i lose my very little support, and as you know the cooldown isn't very small for this ability;
-Need control of the pets action with a dedicated window and possibility to control their powers as the ground team.
Post edited by revenant91 on
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Comments
I thought the MVAE was considered one of the best ships in the game?
First off I don't think you know quite what your talking about because there are differences between the MVAE and HEC and the free counterparts. First off they have a Science and Engineering Lt Cmdr Boff slots respectively, I dare you to find me other escorts with either. Gives you the opportunity to bring some utility to STFs and be more than just a cannon. Second, you can only have fighters and mvam do so much damage and fighters do fine damage so I don't know what your talking about and the mvae might not do the most damage but you can separate and by the time you get to the third your first will be off CD.
They are damage boosts, they aren't meant to be the end all be all of damage to the point where you are gimped if you don't spend money on them.
I just feel my money was wasted on this ship with limited fire power when she seperates
Also, I think most people would agree having both pets firing phasers is the best set up you could have. I know it seems weird that they don't use the same weapon as you, but unless they make the pets into a "hangar" and you pick disruptor ones, or polaron ones or whatever, it may be a difficult request to furnish as far as coding is concerned.
As for other gear on the sections you're not flying, like engines, again, they'd have to code a version of each section with every permutation of the gear available. Aegis, Omega, Borg, Combat [turn][full][aux], Hyper [full]x3 etc etc... and if things like shields and deflectors were taken into account, the number of permutations skyrockets. This is because they're basicly summoned pets that spawn next to the part of the ship you've "turned into" as far as the code is concerned, not still a part of your ship.
On the bright side, at some point you're likely to get a smoother seperation animation as they achieved it with the Oddysey. No more stalling the impulse drive whilst the magnetic interlocks retract.:D
#2 The same reason you get standard weapons load outs on all pets, they are spawned pets. Think of it this way when you split you ship you get a shape and a stat change, but other than that your ship doesn't change. They than summon the correct two pets for your separation.
#3 I think this is more an AI than low engines. Don't forget they are pets you have bonuses from power levels and skill points they do not.
#4 There is no way they are going to give you two L50 NPC escorts as Pets. You gain a pair of Attack pattern assisted Dual Beam Banks and Torpedoes, learn to accept it. I'd love them to balance their shields, but other than that I'm fine with them.
#5 Use Torpedoes or Beam Overload and a Weapons Battery or a Target Subsystem, there's always the option of just running 4 BOFFs too. I don't know why all the whinging about 3 Ensign level Tac Powers comes from. At least you guys have a choice over it, for a long time the Klingons choice was Raptor or BoP. Both have 4 BOFFs for an all Cannon Build.
You seem to have a flaw in your line of thinking, L40 & L50 ships are both T5 and they are supposed to be equal. A L50 ship is not meant to be more powerful than a L40.
As for your example, yeah your trading High Yield 3 for High Yield 1, Grav Well 1 (Or any other Sci power you like) and two pets with Dual Beam Bank and a Torpedo. It starts to look like less of a loss when I say it like that.
The MVAE is a fantastic ship in the right circumstances, it's one of the best Defenders of the Kang in Cure Space Elites as it has firepower and control, not to mention some good heals. It's probably been knocked off my Favourite Escort spot by the new Akira (Personal favourite ship) but it's still good, and if you don't like the layout of the MVAE you can always use the Console in the normal Advanced Escort to get the normal BOFF layout.
I'm thinking with my current Alt of doing just that, claiming the free AE at 40, than claiming the MVAE, stipping the console out, dismissing and reclaiming it. (Because why swap that one console around all the time). Than I can choose firepower or Control.
Yes the Pet AI needs to better, Yes the Crew is an issue with Separation and yes the Seperation if far too long on Cooldown, but these quirks can be worked around.
In Cure I split at the start, because that's when I need the extra's to get the optional, for the Boss I can reform (because the two Vectors probably died on that last cube) and have Alpha available for my next run in either Khitomer or Infected. Everybody know's Beta is the one you want but Alpha's not bad. Gamma needs to be reworked.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
Wait, you can do that, seriously?
Can someone confirm that for me please, because I would definitely like to try that. My main is an escort tactical captain, but I am not 100% keen on the three tactical BOFF all the time, been using my Advanced for stfs, and would like a confirmation that you can do this before I plan to spend the 2000 c-points.
Cryptic themselves have stated that you can use the MVAM Console on the normal Prometheus and still get separation.
I'm talking about Tact part only and about Fleet/Advanced Escort that have better skill's level choices.
If you look to my examples you can understand what I mean about.
Is the MVAE one of the best ships on the game?
Can you show me your configuration and the dps level, we can meet in game for a pvp.
@lianthelia: Please can you show me where i've talked about Eng and Sci BOPs??? If i remember currectly i've talked only about the effectiveness of the combination 4+2+1 for the Tactical side.
Can you tell me why an user have to think about buy a C-Points Ship? And why in other games with the same policy of free to play, the money item are better then other items?
Of course we need only a little difference or we can compromise the balance of the game, but we need a difference for the 2 type of items, or buy C-Points ship have no real sense.
@charliescot25: You are the voice of truth. The same is for the Engineering Ody and other type of ships with same system!!! No real advantage from the separation and the sub-sections. Die very quickly and don't have the self-repairation. Why we lose our crew in the separation?
@ebeneezergoode: Can i ask to you for who is the balance? For Klingons or other Fed users?
I know the turn rate and speed of the MVAE, it's the same of Fleet Escort...and i'm talking only about her "Special Function" and his effectiveness in battle. Effectiveness proved by tests and analysis of the damage.
For the pet firing setup, i think you're wrong. The 2 pets seems to increase their firepower if i'm putting up the phasers consoles, but, if i'm using another type of wepons who have more effectiveness for me, why i'm forced to change the weapons???
I know what i'm saying is very difficult, so the Cryptic can only put a function who take the parameters from the user's ship to apply them on the pets.
My problems with MVAE are the same of the Eng Ody users...
And i'm talking only about the Engines because i can't have a speed and my 2 pets need to be crazy for follow me.
I think Cryptic can leave us the possibility to change only weapons (only the common weapons) and the engines for resolve this problems!!!
@dknight0001: 1# So they need a more effective equipment for give support on pvp or they have no effect on the enemies!
2# With this settings how much support do you expect?
3# I know it,but with no bonus those pets can't be able to stand any encounter.
4# "Learn to accept it" for Cryptic is "We can do what we want without anyone say nothing!" I haven't asked for lev 50 pets but with those 2 pets you have only an estetic change of your ship. So 2000 Cryptic Points to junk?
5# The problem is only the third Ensign Tac Bof, and what type of ability he can use, only one of those abilities can be used by and Escort with Cannons, the high yield!!!
With the Lt. Commander of the Fleet and Advanced escort you can use the High Yield 3 and other type of powers for an escort ship! Why a player want to change the Lt. Commander with and Ensign and lose damage power with a level 50 escort???
6# Ah ok sorry. I'm wrong. Can i ask why the level 50 cryptic ship have the same tier of the level 40 free ship?
7# Remember, the 2 pets is nothing, with this setup, in battle.
8# I'm not talking about eng and sci layout but about the tact layout! Yes i can change with the Advanced Escort, but other people with same tact layout with other Cryptic Ship??? What can you do with a Tactical Escort Retrofit if you don't want the Ensign Tact Bof???
Remember, about the pets, they are NOTHING in battle with this setup!!!
9# See the question at points 8.
10# So why if those problems are too small, the cryptic don't fix it? Because everyone say nothing!!!
11# I'm talking about Pets in PVP. My problem is the same problem of who have the Galaxy Class Retrofit, the Odyssey. Same situation with their pets.
If we talk about the Gamma Vector Mode, i've this opinion too.
@robdmc: The problem is: You can do this only with Multi-Vector and Advanced Escorts!!!
As others and myself have said you can use the Multi Vector Module with the Advanced Escort and get the Lt.Com Tac BOFF you want.
You keep saying your trading High Yield 3 for High Yield 1, this is frankly not the case.
You are trading a Tac Lt.Com power (High Yield 3) and a Ens Sci Power for a Lt.Com Sci Power and an Ens Tac (High Yield 1)
If your going to make the comparison at least make it right.
Are you complaining that a C-Store +1 ship is only backward compatible with it's +0 self? What are tying to suggest here that every Federation Escort can use the Multi Vector Module?
I'll agree with you on one point the MVAE is not a great choice for PVP as I think the Defiant & Fleet Escort are better.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
The Defiant by size is a DD and feels like one. Fast supper hard hit hummbing bird bottem. The MVAE by size is a CA and I use her like one. Hits hard enough to hurt but alot more utlaity in an STF thanks to its ability to pack GravWell.
I really like the escorts that give me more utility than just raw dps. I have a decked out Qin raptor on my kling VA tac and to be honest I HATE IT. Yes it is pure cannon and the spec is set to max that dps out. It kills single targets quicker than any other ship I command. At the same time It annoys me to no end being limited to my Doff slots and a small handful of sci and eng abilites to try to keep me alive. My fed VA tac has an MVAE and an Escort Carrier. I much prefer having the Lt. Com not be a tac officer. One serves quiet nicely as a pocket tank and the other handles crowd control like a champ.
My MVAE runs TS1, TS2, CSV2, CSV3 and GW1. I love probe/ bop duty with this boff lay out.
My HEC runs TS1, CSV1, CRF2, CRF3 and EPtS1, RSP1, EPtS 3. Alot less AOE happy but without the well to suck the big waves in to a nice ball I found I needed more single target dakka. Then again nothing says love to the probes in cure like the Photon PDS and a TS1 on a drive by.
Both ships run a pair of TT1 and APB1.
And about the MVAE and AE in pvp, I suggest to improve it for the pvp!
I'm asking support from all the users of the community to submit those suggestions to the cryptic!!!
The MVAE Pet problem is the same of Ody and Galaxy, so we have 3 type of ship with 1 problem and none on cryptic think to solve this problem and none of us ask for a solution!!!!
i agree pal i to got it when it 1st came available and never use it now
The Pet problem extends to the Bortasqu and anything with a Hanger, it's bad AI not the limitations they put on the pets.
I will say the MVAE has more problems due to even when you rejoin your crew is uber low, and the cooldowns are super long. 10 minutes a section and it starts from when you respawn is terrible. It really should be 3 minutes and 1 minute from reform. And I apply that to all Separation style pets. I would even support it being the full 3 minutes if the pet dies.
I'm still not sure we're on the same page with the MVAE BOFF layout, I keep saying it can have the layout of the AE. Having it return to that layout completely defeats the purpose of the ship as a Sci Heavy Escort. You can put the console in the Free AE and get the Tac Comm & Lt.Com BOFFs and have it still fly like an MVAE.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
I think they need to reconsider the layout of the C-Ships Bofs or give to all ship more layout choise as the MVAE have!
So is your problem the Pets or the Layout? As for the pets usefulness in PVP, like all pets next to useless unless it's Carrier Spam. As an Eng in a MVAE who has nowhere near the DPS of my Tac in a Garumba I find it far easier to defend the Kang in CSE with a Seperated MVAE. Grav Well is just that much more useful in that situation. The pets damage in a small bonus. In PVP I'd use Energy Siphon or maybe even Viral Matrix.
Patrol (Formerly Fleet) Escort
Com
Lt.Com
Lt
Lt
Ens
Advanced Escort (Can use Multi Vector mode)
Com
Lt.Com
Lt
Ens
Lt
Tactical Escort Retrofit
Com
Lt.Com
Ens
Lt
Lt
Multi Vector Advanced Escort (Can use Multi Vector mode)
Com
Lt
Ens
Lt.Com
Lt
Heavy Escort Carrier
Com
Lt
Ens
Lt
Lt.Com
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Those pets don't give support in PVP! They die fast in PVE too!!!
My second problem is: ALL C-Store lev 50 Escorts have the TACTICAL Layout of 4+2+1...and i think the +1 give nothing to the total ammount of damage who can make an escort to someone!!! About this problem i think the Cryptic need to give the same choice of the MVAE to the other lev 50 C-Store Escort.
I think the people need to have the possibilities to use this stupid(personal opinion) 4+2+1 setup, or the setup 4+3 for the tactical side!!!
Stop to think "this ship is for pve, this ship is for pvp", You need only to think "This is a ship with this type of extra".
How someone can use a ship is a problem of the user!!! Not of the cryptic!!! They only need to make ship for pvp and pve but is the player choice to make a ship ideal for pvp or pve!!!
You do have the same choice. You can fit the MVAM (which is the console) into the Rear Admiral Advanced Escort. That's part of the reason it's so versatile.
One of the benefits of the pets in PvP is that they take away fire from yourself. Any effort spent on the part of your opponent in getting rid of them, however minimal, is effort they could've been putting to use in killing you. Same reason why Sci ships will often spam Photonic Fleet.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
About the photonic fleet, is better then MVAE pets!Q_Q They are only 2 stupid little pet!Q_Q
Currently I'm loving the MVAE with a Healer build (TSS1 > HE2 > TBR2) For blockades, the ability to intelligently bulldoze your enemies away from the Freighter you just healed ensures it gets through almost 100%. Far more effective than a Grav Well in this instance.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
As for the MVAE pets, they die as fast as uncommon pets.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
WOA.
Where is the proof of this?
I am not buying my Fleet Patrol until I see this.
Try to make a challenge with him and try to give a little shoot on the 2 pet or the Ody/Galaxy pet of someone and after shut up at the evidence.
Also try to make a cube with those 2 pets in alpha mode and see the middle section pet, it's main attack is to run in circle on the target and use beam array when he have cannons!!!
Please also explain to me why after the cube is dead my two pets stay at the cube explosion for die and leave me alone!;)
So do you call this support???
P.S.
I know how to use this ship,but it's a secret!!!
I never said it's as good as it can get, but it is definitely good enough. And I've killed a lot of Aquarius escorts, so I know that it does not automatically return - meaning that you retain your MVA buff.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
I was TRIBBLE around in Gamma Module (I know it's the worst mode) in Solo PVE and I swear I was getting a TSS from one of them and I know it's not one of my BOFF abilities when I run Grav Well.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.