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Why is Quark's a separate map?
ds9fan2
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Seems like a pretty small place to me - I can imagine it being entered by a pair of sliding doors, say. Usually you get new maps when you enter A BIG NEW PLACE. Quark's doesn't feel like A BIG NEW PLACE to me.
Post edited by ds9fan2 on
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Captain, U.S.S Transcendent
Explorers Fleet, Senior Member
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In game: Commadore_Bob; Joined Jul 2009; That post count + 20,000
If they ever re-do it, I have no problem with it being a separate map but I think it needs a couple of points of interest added.
I think having a couple of active holosuites would justify it being bigger on the inside.
I'd look at adding Vic's, always running, on the second floor of the holosuite platform and then a baseball stadium on the third floor of the holosuite platform.
Now, actually adding baseball would be tricky. But instead of adding it, I'd add an exhibition game and make the participatory element something like trying to catch the baseball and betting on the outcome of a game. I know, it sounds insane. But really all you need to do is develop one inning of game with a few variations and then repeat it.
Pull back on the map and you should see both areas.
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In game: Commadore_Bob; Joined Jul 2009; That post count + 20,000
it's still in the DS9 "zone" its just a separate map. my guess is that cryptic couldnt fit all those ramps and such without interfering with some other area of the map were it to be all on the same map.
Also, I would totally visit Vic's! So many great ideas on this forum.
I never understood during their DS9 revamp, why they never added the doors to the Holosuites. Them adding just the holosuite doors would be a boon for Foundry authors in making holosuite missions. (I'm doing that right now, but for Drozana since KDF can't use Foundry access points for DS9).
With Vics, it can easily be a social zone within a social zone (Quarks) within a social zone (DS9). And with talk of adding poker, it could be added player vs player gambling, where you can bet latinium.
As for the baseball........they have trouble enough with poker. :P
For the record, the DS9_Ground map, includes the promenade, OPs, and Quarks, all within the same map. Each of those sections is separated by several thousand feet, within the map. When you click a door, it just moves you to another section of the same map.
I wasn't around when they first built the DS9 interior. My guess as to why Quark's is separate, is because of the big stupid ramps they shoved in on the back side. Quarks should fit entirely within the central column of the Promenade, but with various scaling issues, and those big ramps, there was no way it would fit.
As much as I would love to see DS9 look/feel just like the show, and as much as I would like to be the one that does it, that is a ton of work, with a ton of dependencies (i.e. other missions, etc. that would all require updating), with very little tangible benefit. In addition, it's been 100 years. Point me to a shopping mall, or a downtown that hasn't changed in any way in 100 years.
Well, when they ask you, pitch Nors as a fleet holding.
Honestly, I want a refurbished Nor more than a starbase and if that were to become a fleet holding, you'd have an excuse to re-do DS9's interior.
The big thing, I'd imagine, in addressing the number of dependencies for DS9 and making it worth it is making sure the amount of content that is added by a change outweighs the old content that has to be re-done.
The one way I can see really selling that is making a Nor a fleet holding that makes another 6+ months for players to develop after Starbases are relatively done.
You make a more accurate DS9 as the template, conscious to take a lot of the new elements and make them modular.
As for the role of a Nor, they're Cardassian mining stations. There are Cardassians working with both the Federation and the Klingons. I'd imagine it could translate into a number of benefits such as dilithium speculation, trading with other players (which creates a healthy promenade), and exploitation of resources.
Pretty much instantly, I can spot the major difference between a Nor and starbase and I'll just suggest that location becomes crucial with these. As in, there could be several locations you could choose to place yours. Which one you select determines whether you're overseeing a rock mining operation that is scientifically focused but not necessarily highly profitable... or a resource rich mining operation where you border on occupying a planet.
There's this whole meta-idea in place that, using a Nor, you start to find yourself thinking like a Cardassian, asking questions a Cardassian would ask, getting into the head of the people who staged the Bajoran Occupation.
So imagine it being similar to Fleet Starbases but instead of Science, Tactical, and Engineering development tracks, you find yourself with something of a morality track.
Finally Quark firmly refused to share a map unless he got a sizable fee
(thats a JOKE)
This leads to the construction of +1 style Nors on both sides. Imagine a 2409 take on DS9's exterior and an interior that can be like the interior of DS9 or stunningly different, with a more modern feel. (By making the interior modular, this becomes supported.)
When I say different locations, I'm talking about different locations inside a system.
I have a very specific system in mind for one of these, one in a sector block that doesn't exist yet but which is HUGE to Star Trek lore, the site of one of the biggest events in Star Trek history. You choose which planet to station your Nor at.
And let's just say that this mining operation is rooted in mining something mentioned a few times that we haven't seen yet in-game: trilithium.
I'm curious to know if the Qo'noS Revamp had any tangible benefits for you? That was a total makeover with a ton of dependencies. A really excellent makeover imo. Is it now considered a waste?
They were planning on doing a KDF tutorial when they did it. I think that's changed.
Yeah. If you cant start a klingon at level 1 there's no need for a tutorial. I think all those plans are now scrapped.
But still, that revamp had to cost them a lot of time and resources. Companies tend to not do things like that without some kind of ROI. So I'm still wondering if they got anything from it.
Also I wasn't playing my feds for quite a long time. When I did again I noticed Starbases like 39 Sierra and K7 got facelifts to their interiors. Someone at Cryptic justified those environment upgrades. From where I'm sitting there's more people visiting DS9 now than ever, certainly more than Sierra and K7. What tangible benefits did upgrading those starbases get them and why can't the same benefits apply to DS9?
{UFP}Thomas45 - Thomas Nixon U.S.S. Majesty Unbound
it was posted earlier that it would require a major overhaul of several maps, since DS9 has several missions that happen on it. while certain dev's would love to change DS9 its just not on the plan, so unless dev's do it in their own, off the clock time, it wont happen.
It is still adjoined to the DS9 main map, the instance count still caps at 75, regardless of whether you're in Quarks or on the Promenade.
Or... What might work even better is that that once you grind a Starbase to T5, there are "Skin" options that could be available as Dilithium purchases. We could have Nors, MIDAS Array's, and even Starbase 375, and K-7 esque stations, etc as options. (We could even make K-7 prettier while we're at it)
As a compromise, these +1 Starbase skins shouldn't be as customizable as the standard skin (I mean there should at least be some...) in order to keep production values and time cost down.
But It would give those Fleets who want to go above and beyond, or to set themselves apart something to work toward, as well as an excuse to remake K-7, DS9 (and by extension Terradome) and create a huge amount of resources for future Featured Episodes, STFs, Dailies, Story missions, Etc. Not to mention giving new toys for Foundry authors to to play with.
It would take a little while, but I think the sheer amount of stuff we could do with this would be worth it in the end.
Tumerboy... it's only been Thirty years... There are quite a few Malls from the 70s still around....
Obviouslly you can't re-do the whole of DS9 any time soon. What about just re-doing those ramps in quarks though? Basiclly walling them off and putting a staircase in that functions like the promenade turbolifts? It's only used for 1 mission and the normal map that i remember and that sounds like a fairly simple change to make. It would at least adress both our biggest pet hates with quarks. The ramps don't even look like the rest of quarks, they feel really tacked on.
While all that is possible, they seem to want to keep customization more controlled for starbases so they can have content on them. Which is why it boils down to ship trophy type placement of things like fireplaces and dance floors in set locations.
I think if they added Nors, it would be as its own type of separate fleet holding... and if they're doing that, Cardassian supplied mining stations (with an option of classic or 2409 upgraded exterior look) as a functional mining operation would probably sell itself better.
The way I see it, they'd be designed as empty promenade shells that modular things can be placed into and then the authentic DS9 parts would be one set of modules that could be placed in the gap.
That's why the "extra" skins would have simpler customization options. I can't see why the Nors/Etc couldn't be used as the starbase itself. Many fleets would jump on the chance to be something different. While "Fleet Holdings" sound nice, I really don't want this to turn into EVE.
Skins (interior and exterior) already exist to an extent, I don't see why Starbases could adopt something similar.
These starbase skins could add some sort of functionality/ability that normal starbases wouldn't normally have. A' La DS9's upgraded defenses seen about 0:52 in this video. It would be really cool to warp in and discover something other than a normal starbase when Fleet Vs. Fleet matches are implemented.
To me it seems like adding Nors/Etc as a fleet holding would be harder, adding functionality, reasons to use them, the "need", the shiny, etc. While adding Nors/MIDAS Arrays/K class starbases (or whatever they're called) as starbase options is already a shiny.
*sarcasm on*
Come on every one on the board know the problem is Cypric devs have never watched a episode of star trek and don't know what the maps should look like and don't like trek enough update anything. Also they are really lazy.
But really Cyptic should put out bounties on stuff that won't generate them money then start a collection of Cstore points or Delithium. Kinda like Kickstarter so updates like redone DS9 could be done.
Everything that existed on the DS9 map at the time that 2800 went live is on there. Full shipyard, promenade shops, commissary, and STF store. The additions since then like the two DOFFing NPCs are not. (Also Kurland is not in Ops, but my Temple Offerings mission seems bugged anyway.)
Also having the music track is nice sometimes.
The security officer for turning in contraband isn't there either on Second Wave. Or wasn't last time I checked.