test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Mr. Rivera - What is the message?
ofallon
Member Posts: 2 Arc User
So in Tribble Maintenance and Release Notes July 6 they released a General statement covering updates on the Lock Box Ships. Now since anything posted there will be literally buried in all the discussion, I decided to make this forum post in a not generally used way.
Quoted from Tribble Maintenance Release Notes July 6, " Updated the Jem'Hadar Attack Ship, Cardassian Galor, and Ferengi D'Kora so they have bonus HP, bonus shields, and an additional console slot so they are competitive with the fleet ships."
Just what the heck is going on here. In reading it several times I believe this to be a HARD CORE MONUMENTAL MISTAKE.
If you have a lock box ship, you get a free upgrade to be competitive with Fleet Ships. Where is my free upgrade for all the C-Store Ships we all have purchased. Oh that's right , I have to earn it thru the Tactical Commendations Star Base Tiers to open up ship yards.
Just when I thought the Developer's and Publishers were getting on the same track, I was proved wrong. This is EPIC FAIL and puts a Cash Greed Front to ALL of Any Practical Customer Relations because you just made Lock Box Ships better in game than any other by not requiring those who hold Lock Box Ships to play in the same sand box or to earn it.
Also, I thought we were getting beyond the whole Eastern Style of Micro Transactions due to the general dislike in the Western World. Many times several mentions of re-examining the whole lock box drop rate from Dan Stahl to Al Rivera. I understand they are here to stay but really they drop from mines, high yield torpedoes,structures, low tier MoB's and just a plain overload drop rate , not to mention you can buy them from the dilithium store, yet making Lock Box Ship's considerably OP compared to our current ship selections is unfair and poor in judgement.
I charge that this must be re-done. So much for dropping the Floor Mr. Rivera you just raised the roof as you always say is inappropriate. The ability to purchase a +1 or Fleet version of a Lock Box Ship should be done the same as it is for C-Store Ships, you fraggin' earn it like every one else.
In closing , If I have misunderstood the Tribble Release Notes July 6 and if it is the case that all Lock Box Ships will have to upgrade the same as all other ships, then consider my previous statements redacted.
Quoted from Tribble Maintenance Release Notes July 6, " Updated the Jem'Hadar Attack Ship, Cardassian Galor, and Ferengi D'Kora so they have bonus HP, bonus shields, and an additional console slot so they are competitive with the fleet ships."
Just what the heck is going on here. In reading it several times I believe this to be a HARD CORE MONUMENTAL MISTAKE.
If you have a lock box ship, you get a free upgrade to be competitive with Fleet Ships. Where is my free upgrade for all the C-Store Ships we all have purchased. Oh that's right , I have to earn it thru the Tactical Commendations Star Base Tiers to open up ship yards.
Just when I thought the Developer's and Publishers were getting on the same track, I was proved wrong. This is EPIC FAIL and puts a Cash Greed Front to ALL of Any Practical Customer Relations because you just made Lock Box Ships better in game than any other by not requiring those who hold Lock Box Ships to play in the same sand box or to earn it.
Also, I thought we were getting beyond the whole Eastern Style of Micro Transactions due to the general dislike in the Western World. Many times several mentions of re-examining the whole lock box drop rate from Dan Stahl to Al Rivera. I understand they are here to stay but really they drop from mines, high yield torpedoes,structures, low tier MoB's and just a plain overload drop rate , not to mention you can buy them from the dilithium store, yet making Lock Box Ship's considerably OP compared to our current ship selections is unfair and poor in judgement.
I charge that this must be re-done. So much for dropping the Floor Mr. Rivera you just raised the roof as you always say is inappropriate. The ability to purchase a +1 or Fleet version of a Lock Box Ship should be done the same as it is for C-Store Ships, you fraggin' earn it like every one else.
In closing , If I have misunderstood the Tribble Release Notes July 6 and if it is the case that all Lock Box Ships will have to upgrade the same as all other ships, then consider my previous statements redacted.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Post edited by ofallon on
0
Comments
And the reason why? These are rare, nearly-impossible-to-get ships... they SHOULD be good.
And on Fleet ships, they are stronger than C-Store ships for a reason... because you're working toward them. On the reverse, you get the C-Store ships instantly, and they're good, but they don't have the extra stuff. But C-Store ships still have something to consider: their unique console, which the Fleet versions don't have.
And on a sidenote, the lockbox ships are comparable to the Fleet ships, and only slightly better than C-Store ships. Which one is truly better depends on the individual.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
You have to work for that 'tier' of ships, unless you get a lucky lockbox or buy it from exchange/gifted from a friend. Then you get that without any grind, time, or effort with working as a fleet.
You can't fabricate a Jem'Hadar Attack ship, Galor, D'kora or, Tuffli.
THere will be NO WAY to improve upon these incredibly rare ships in the fleet system, the only way to improve upon ships.
This will be the only way to get "improved" versions of these ships.
YOu want a Tier 5.5 Defiant/Gal-X/whatever? Join a fleet, bust your *** and build them, jsut like I plan to do for my Defiant.
Meanwhile I look forward to seeing my Jem'Hadar attack ship "level up".
Particularly when there are older tier 5 c-store ships people paid quite a bit of cash for and over the F2P patch, the space revamp and the constant uber-nerfing of science abilities ...have been castrated and rendered obsolete.
(Tier 5 Nebula for example. Just by its Doff layout its just silly to buy it nowadays.. you cant do much with it).
Those older C-store ships should receive a free fleet version upgrade at the very least...and not just a silly increase in hull/shield and one extra console.. they need to be improved in boff layout primarily.
After seeing in tribble just what a huge time sink fleet starbases and upgrading ships to fleet version is.... I will not even bother with fleet versions.
Which also means no more cstore ship purchases for me. There is no reason now for me to spend money on them seeing how a precedent is set here, now, in how cstore ships are left behind to become obsolete and then we are asked to pay to upgrade them to a better version which is in all fact and purpose the very upgrades that are needed to return the ships to something closer to their pre-nerfing performance.
I have two 'lockbox' ships and three other-faction consoles. I did not pay a cent for them. Lady luck was kind to me and it seems that wench is the only reliable and respectable thing I have in STO.
Pay to upgrade my crapped out T5 cstore ships... what nerve.
Now they are painted into the tier box and it will continue to be mess from here on out. Rather than spend time creating all these new incarnations, it would have been better to devote time to a Suricata style revamp. That would have allowed players to still fly and customize the ships they want, within reason. Of course, the players wanted it, were in favor of it and I suppose it was overruled. Hey, we only pay the bills right?
For STO, the ship is our avatar in space. MMOers like to have a custom look or a particular avatar, you got character customization right so why not ships? Why do you force players into an avatar they may not like to perform the best or gimp them in performance if they select the one they like? Seems very counter-intuitive to me. You are only hamstringing yourselves more and only added a marginal ability for players to fly their favorite ships. Your solutions are continue down this potentially time and resource wasting path by fidgeting with layouts, waste time and resources developing every ship at every reasonable tier, or do the best thing for the game and yourselves by building a better system that will permanently alleviate these issues.
Just own up to it, Suricata's idea was great, answered the players issues and would make it easier for you guys to develop ships from there on out. I have no idea why no dev has officially commented on it and I find the dev silence about it disconcerting.
Al said in his PriorityOne interview, that to make such a system is either NOT within their engine's capabilities... or it would take a complete from-the-ground-up approach, which would take several seasons.
Either situation is obviously gonna cost them major cash to implement this idea, if it would work anyway.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
I wholeheartedly support the move to upgrade the lockbox ships. Here are my two reasons.
1) When you buy a C-store ship you pay a set price. Unless you win some karmic lottery and land a ship after using one or two keys you're going to end up paying a lot more for a lockbox ship compared to any ship sold in the C-store. I've read that some people have paid hundreds of dollars for their ships. The interests of these people need to be protected. (Some people may argue that these ships can be bought from the exchange. Yes they can, but the original seller had to pay real money for them at some stage.)
2) When you buys C-store ship you can unlock it as many times as you want on any or all of your toons. Once you get a lockbox ship you get one single ship only. If you open it on a toon it's forever locked to that toon.
They're my rational reasons. My irrational reasons? I'm looking forward to the instant improvements my Jem'Hadar and D'Kora are going to receive.
You are missing the point. First off the ability to "Unpack" an New Ship is completely doable.
Second they just made a collectors ship way better than necessary. They were never better than c-store ships they are just a rare, collectible and unique.
Lastly Season Six is "supposed to be" all about fleets and creating a better version of that community, getting a work around to a "FREE" Fleet Version is just wrong and slaps down what the hype of Season Six is to be. I don't have a problem with a tweak but a "Fleet" version is too much to swallow.
-Spells
| Dues Ex Mechina |
Fleet Leader
Dec/2008
I just played with my Attack Ship on Tribble.
Hull boosts to 34,500 (Base, mine is at 42k and change.) and teh extra console is tactical putting it at 5 Tac consoles.
Didn't get a chance to test a build but I look forward to it.
It is going to cost them major cash either way but i bet in the life of the game it will cost them more to continue down the current path they are on. Honestly, that is a smoke screen because they don't want to do it or it is too hard for them to do it. They cannot keep saying their engine is great and can do anything, but then keep blaming engine limitations for things. All Al does when he says something like that is show he is growing more and more out of touch with the community and gameplay.
A Surricata style revamp lis not much different than the way ships work now except:
The benefits to such an open system like that are many, even the devs can use it to create (rather than program) specific bad guys. In addition, you could add upgrade slots to the ships for things like sensor scan, increased hull and have those locked in place for ships that already have those abilities. The potential for itemization and monitization are much higher following a Surricata style and the only limits beyond implementation are ship models and the creation of paired items.
The real issue though is not at our level, but the devs. The money questions are: Is this system good enough that it's worth the time, effort and money? How will we make money off this system?
I have no doubt many of the forums would say yes to the first one... but we're unaware of the money and effort aspects. Plus the way I'm looking at this system, if it was freely used in-game, it would make them zero money... not an attractive prospect, for them or the game in the long-term.
That is of course, unless I'm missing something.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Oviously you dont know how powerfull a jem'hadar attack ship can be, in fact is the most powerfull escort at the moment no par, even the defiant geting a upgrade with consoles is not going to match the bug due turn rate and officers display, from the begining they shouldnt be in the game at all and i have 4 of this ship spread in my toons.
Something have to be done with C ships because, are you going to buy a ship or a bundle to realize that older ships are going to be better?, is a insult to everyones inteligence no matter how you put it, there is no sense at all for buy any C store material knowing that, furthermore cryptic lose credibility doing this.
How are you going to buy a new bundle or ship, knowing that can get oudated with the stroke of a tronic pencil maybe tomorrow or past tomorrow?
And is geting worst with klingons, how come that there is going to be a scourge fleet refit and not a guramba?
I dont know what hapened in cryptic because there are a lot of things that dont make any sense in the upcoming season.
Well if we want to dissect the C-Store aspect of it you would still have to. Buy the ship skin, whichever you wanted, which would give you the:
My STOwiki page | Reachable in-game @PhyrexianHero
Fed Armada: Section 31 (level 730, 2700+ members)
KDF Armada: Klingon Intelligence (level 699, 2100+ members)
Thank you for sticking to the core issue Phyrexianhero.
Also, to respond to Tehjonel's calm down, I do not think so. It is more than a hull and shield buff it is a +1 console that is the real issue.
Never were any lock box ships better than a c-store ship till this. Sure when the get released they are the new "Shiny" but they are always balanced. That balance has been eliminated where it should be available if you earn it like every other ship has to not handed out.
For the record, I do not wish to spar with anyone but Al Riveria on this. Thus far only a few have responded unbiased. The rest either went to a whole other direction with ship deign or showing your blind affection for a lock box ship. I personally only like the Tuffi T-class Freighter all others do not interest me and I have given away a Cardassian Galor and a Jem'Hadar Attack Ship because it made a Fleet Mate's b-day a special one. I enjoy coming aboard my Fleet Mate's D'Kora and socializing, gambling, using the exchange and such.
It seems it still holds true. Take the Fleet Armitage for example. Less than a month after it was released, it's revealed to have a fleet version as well...that...get this...everyone can get. So you just paid $25 for a ship that in a few months, everyone will get a better version of for free.
The whole next season really doesn't play fair with the paying customers, but then again, when did they ever?
Why not approach this from the other angle?
1. Current ship hulls become the warp core. (no database changes needed). The core spcifies everything that the current ship object specifies (except for the ship's looks), so it is a direct conversion. NEW CORE = OLD SHIP.
2. Edit the ship tailor screen to show all "owned" hulls to be put on top of the currently active warp core. (again no database changes, just small UI changes to the tailor screen - which already looks at which ship hulls you own!). OLD SHIP HULL = NEW TAILOR OPTION.
3. Done. EVERYONE HAPPY!
... and there you have it, no major changes and no need to redesign anything. Done like this the changes are just simple UI changes. Seriously, probably only a few lines of code...
I completely disagree. (In my humble opinion), the Devs know how much $$$, time, or in-game assets players spent on lockbox ships and are looking out for the players best interests by preserving something that would otherwise, just become obsolete. I completely agree with this decision and I believe the Devs got this one right.
So, what your posting really means, is that the C-store ships you purchased are not getting upgrades you have a case of "sour grapes"? Don't get on the Devs for upgrading the lockbox ships. Just begin a post asking for the C-store T5 ships to allow for an upgrade to members who purchased one (as they should). Two totally different topics.
Al also said he hadn't really looked at the system in the interview, so his comments should be taken with a grain of salt. As per the thread where I made the suggestion, I even gave an estimate of the time it would take to do (approx 1 season with 2-3 devs working on it off and on). The system IS within thier engines capabilities, it just needs time and some programming, just like the combat revamp, DoFF system and minigames. It really would only take a few months ot get the base code written. When the dev's say it's not capable in the games engine, what they really mean is that it would require a programmer to write to code and add it to the engine, and they might not have the time due to other projects at the time, but it certainly does not mean its not within the engines capabilities, I created the system to be as simple as possable to ensure it would be infact!
Yes, my revamp would certainly cost money to implement, but it ensures that the tier system is far more robust and future proofed (and also opens up C-store ship sales significantly), so it would be short term costs for long term gains. With the new Fleet system, they could of implemented 'Fleet Warp Cores' and 'Fleet Computer Cores', however, with the way they have added the new Fleet ships the tier system is now pretty much completely broken, which is why you are starting to see more people getting angry about C-store ships they purchased been outclassed by other newer ships. (something I was predicting was about to happen when I made my proposal to prevent it....)
If I was Mr. Stahl, I would fly Suricata to Cryptic Studios immediately and have him supervise the installation of his system. I'd probably offer him a job. What Suricata designed is simply pure-genius.
It's such a darn shame that excellent ideas like Suricata's get "lost" being forwarded up the chain of command, within the bowels of corporate bureaucracy. Perhaps its' my experience being the president of a small company that is doing the talking, but I firmly believe you need to be 100% hands on to be successful. This idea probably never even made it to Mr. Stahl's desk before it was dismissed. Sad...but likely the case.
I like Dan Stahl. But I would like to see more of him on these forums interacting with us all.
Yes. Ignore the cash store. YOu cna get better versions of those ships for free with absolutely no effort, enjoy those consoles.
Oh wait that's right, you and your fleetmates have to bust your collective butts to unlock the ability to BUILD those ships, devote MASSIVE amounts of resources as well.
But at least you get those consoles.
Oops my bad, you don't get the consoles. YOu get an empty hull with extra reinforcement and an extra console slot.
Yup, totally makes the cash store ships useless.
what am i going to to in pvp for the year it takes to max out a star base or however long it takes to get a fleet upgrade ship, in pvp matches?
to me this breaks pvp, my once competitive ship with nolonger be....
and lock box ships (that i cannot aquire without going against my principles) are getting insta boosted?
this ruins the game for me
join date: Jan. 2012
i think the point is if u buff one u gotta buff the others at season 6 launch , my t-5 defiant will not beable to compete with a bug, when i bought my ship, it was with the understanding that it would compete in max level play i feel like i have a t-4 ship now
join date: Jan. 2012
absolutely.
absolutely.
Why the hell should the (already OP!!!) lockbox ships get a free buff?
... and cryptic then wonder why their PVP is so f*cked up ...
If we need to grind for fleet versions of store ships, then lockbox ship owners should grind just as hard (actually harder, as the parts are more rare just like the ships!) for their upgrades...
I am HAPPY there is an upgrade, why did I just spend a hell of a lot MORE ($100+ each )than $20 or $25 for this ship, and now newer, cheaper and better ones are available. ( with work )
I am sure if the OP had one of these ships he/she would be fine with the mods. Don't worry, no one can blow you up in PvE so you're safe from the OP lockbox ships.
I suggest you change your principles quickly then
In reality, buying a C-Store ship is like a lockbox ship. Both require actual money $$$