Quad cannon vs DHC weapon parse?

kelshando · July 2012

All I can find searching are archived posts about the Quad cannon and none showing parses between the two. Just a bunch of people saying Quad is equal end game and a bunch saying its not better then Mark X's in damage.

Are there any up to date parses out there that show the damage difference between the Quad cannons and the Mark X - XII DHC's? Would love to see if the rate of fire of the Quads keeps up in sustained damage like some posters have said or if at 50 they become worthless once you get Mark XI or better like other posters have stated.

Any solid info would be appreciated, Thanks.

hakaishinlegion · July 2012

http://www.stowiki.org/Phaser_Quad_Cannons

Quote: The Phaser Quad Cannons are level-less and so do not have a mark number. Instead the quad cannons scale with the player meaning their damage output is proportional to the player's current level. This makes them good for a mid-level character trying to level-up, but poor at end game compared to Mk XI and XII items. At level 51, the phaser quad cannons are roughly equivalent to a Mk X item, though no other weapon in the game has four [Dmg] modifiers.

It has been claimed that these would be the highest damage cannons in the game [1], but this is not the case, as they have less DPS than Mk XI dual cannons with two [Dmg] modifiers, Mk XII dual cannons with one [Dmg] modifier.

/thread

qweeble · July 2012

Quads are getting a buff, just check Tribble. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

kelshando · July 2012

Yes I have read the wiki but I do not think it has been updated since the 1.2 changes. Thats why I wanted something more up to date or something that shows a damage parse between the two weapon systems. Thanks though.

overlapo · July 2012

Nevermind, ninjaed by a DEV...

kelshando · July 2012

captjamjamz wrote: »

Quads are getting a buff, just check Tribble. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

oh? so do you think as a 30 captain its worth getting the c store ship then? Just didnt want to fork out the cash only to have a out dated weapon that ill never use at 50

Oh damn that was a Dev post :-)

tangolight · July 2012

kelshando wrote: »

oh? so do you think as a 30 captain its worth getting the c store ship then? Just didnt want to fork out the cash only to have a out dated weapon that ill never use at 50

Oh damn that was a Dev post :-)

I've done some testing on Tribble, and they're decent at max level, but you still shouldn't expect them to be the best. (You don't want it to be pay to win, do you?) You can certainly use it just fine at max level, though I found my Mark 12 purple DHCs were still better slightly.

hakaishinlegion · July 2012

kelshando wrote: »

oh? so do you think as a 30 captain its worth getting the c store ship then? Just didnt want to fork out the cash only to have a out dated weapon that ill never use at 50

Oh damn that was a Dev post :-)

To be fair, I think a merchant will always say, "Yes, it is worth it to give us money".

I believe you can word that quite a bit differently to get a far more useful response.

Nevertheless, if quads are indeed getting some love, I'll have to see...

Edit: Nevermind... Tribble, [DMG]x2 Mk12's are still superior.

kelshando · July 2012

hakaishinlegion wrote: »

To be fair, I think a merchant will always say, "Yes, it is worth it to give us money".

I believe you can word that quite a bit differently to get a far more useful response.

Nevertheless, if quads are indeed getting some love, I'll have to see...

Ya I didnt notice it was a dev post till after I posted. But still If they are are getting a buff to be on par with mark XII and its more a mater of flavor at that point then I may have to look at getting it.

hakaishinlegion · July 2012

tangolight wrote: »

I've done some testing on Tribble, and they're decent at max level, but you still shouldn't expect them to be the best. (You don't want it to be pay to win, do you?) You can certainly use it just fine at max level, though I found my Mark 12 purple DHCs were still better slightly.

The game is already pay to win... the consoles, the carriers, the ships, etc...

Why veer from the trend with one item?

At least that would maintain consistency.

The problem is too much focus on PvE at PvP's expense... I anxiously await to see if Cryptic will uphold its word to address this in Season 6 (as they promised with every season in the past).

It's no wonder the PvP community here is as brash as it is... they've gone shoved under the rug for two years. In that case, I'd be angry too.

noctusxxx · July 2012

hakaishinlegion wrote: »

The game is already pay to win... the consoles, the carriers, the ships, etc...

Why veer from the trend with one item?

At least that would maintain consistency.

The problem is too much focus on PvE at PvP's expense... I anxiously await to see if Cryptic will uphold its word to address this in Season 6 (as they promised with every season in the past).

It's no wonder the PvP community here is as brash as it is... they've gone shoved under the rug for two years. In that case, I'd be angry too.

Go back under your rug and stay there. I am sick of my ships being nerfed for the sake of PvP. This update, while not overwhelming, is welcome. Please continue to restore what was lost to the PvP whiners over the past 2 years.

hakaishinlegion · July 2012

noctusxxx wrote: »

Go back under your rug and stay there. I am sick of my ships being nerfed for the sake of PvP. This update, while not overwhelming, is welcome. Please continue to restore what was lost to the PvP whiners over the past 2 years.

Um... PvE has not ceded 1 thing to the PvPers since the game's beta... I know, been doing both since then...

If you're going to attack someone, you may as well do so with fact instead of fiction...

phantomeight · July 2012

wait... people play PvP? Eeeeewwwwwwwwwwwwww lol

kelshando · July 2012

Thanks you for derailing the thread from a Quad cannon qustion to a pvp vs pve debate... its really helpful... no really.

hakaishinlegion · July 2012

phantomeight wrote: »

wait... people play PvP? Eeeeewwwwwwwwwwwwww lol

I know, in this game it is ridiculously under-developed... but only so many times I can save the Vega Colony in the same day from that exact same Tactical Cube that I must've destroyed 400 times by now before I start to question what in bloody hell I'm doing.

However... At least a human target, even in a SEVERELY underdeveloped PvP environment, will present change and provoke skill and thought. I can enter one PvP match and blast 5 PuGs to ash and rubble, then the very next match run against a TSI premade and get my TRIBBLE handed to me - on the exact same map and both within the same 10 minute span. I actually have to think about what I am doing.

There is never a change in that Infected run. No challenge. I might die if I doze off at my keyboard and actually let that Heavy Plasma hit me from 9km away without shooting it down. More often than not, I'll be watching a Netflix movie on my 2nd monitor while my 6 year old son spams the spacebar for me on STO to complete the PvE objective AND the bonus.

hakaishinlegion · July 2012

kelshando wrote: »

Thanks you for derailing the thread from a Quad cannon qustion to a pvp vs pve debate... its really helpful... no really.

You're welcome. Enough of them, and we can only hope action is taken. Even your sarcasm can lead to victory.

thibash · July 2012

hakaishinlegion wrote: »

The game is already pay to win... the consoles, the carriers, the ships, etc...

None of those are any more powerful than the free alternatives.

happyhappyj0yj0y · July 2012

captjamjamz wrote: »

Quads are getting a buff, just check Tribble. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

But are they being made non-unique so that a ship can mount more than one? When you're going for a quad-cannon Defiant theme it's a bit annoying to have your cannons cycling between quads and duals...

hakaishinlegion · July 2012

thibash wrote: »

None of those are any more powerful than the free alternatives.

Hm... Armitage with access to every CStore console available to make any power build they choose...

...against the free equivalent, the basic Fleet Escort. No CStore upgrades at all.

Put equal skill pilots in the two ships.

If you say it'd be a draw, I'd have to slap you for your inexperience in PvP.

akiranc · July 2012

I would really like to see the Quads get a buff, mainly because I would like to use them. I'm not saying make them the best, just on par with at least MkXI purple DHC's.

I got to say though, I rarely hit the PvP queues anymore. Now I just inter fleet. Why? C-store consoles, especially being spammed by the pre-mades, and its a nightmare. I'm not a PvP noob in this game by no means, but I quit jumping in with PuGs and the queues all together.

sotaudi · July 2012

hakaishinlegion wrote: »

Hm... Armitage with access to every CStore console available to make any power build they choose...

...against the free equivalent, the basic Fleet Escort. No CStore upgrades at all.

Put equal skill pilots in the two ships.

If you say it'd be a draw, I'd have to slap you for your inexperience in PvP.

I have an Armitage, a LRSV-R, and the Oddessey package. I cannot put the Ablative Generator in either the Armitage nor any of the Oddies. I cannot put any of the Ody consoles in the Armitage or the LRSV-R. I cannot put the Point Defense system from the Armitage in either the Oddies or the LRSV-R. For that matter, I cannot put it in the Atrox either, and they are both Carriers. Neither can I put those other consoles in the Atrox.

There are a few consoles that can be put in other ships, but it is monumentally factually inaccurate to suggest that you can put "every CStore console available" in the Armitage.

Either way, you can earn Dilithium in the game, and you can convert Dilithium to C-Points (and, eventually, Zen). If you are a Gold subscriber, then you also get a stipend of 400 C-Points per month. As such, there is absolutely nothing in the C-Store that someone paying cash can get that someone cannot get for "free" either by working for it in the game or through patience. That makes your basic premise that you cannot get the same "power" as someone else moot.

"If you're going to attack someone, you may as well do so with fact instead of fiction..."

hakaishinlegion · July 2012

sotaudi wrote: »

I have an Armitage, a LRSV-R, and the Oddessey package. I cannot put the Ablative Generator in either the Armitage nor any of the Oddies. I cannot put any of the Ody consoles in the Armitage or the LRSV-R. I cannot put the Point Defense system from the Armitage in either the Oddies or the LRSV-R. For that matter, I cannot put it in the Atrox either, and they are both Carriers. Neither can I put those other consoles in the Atrox.

There are a few consoles that can be put in other ships, but it is monumentally factually inaccurate to suggest that you can put "every CStore console available" in the Armitage.

Either way, you can earn Dilithium in the game, and you can convert Dilithium to C-Points (and, eventually, Zen). If you are a Gold subscriber, then you also get a stipend of 400 C-Points per month. As such, there is absolutely nothing in the C-Store that someone paying cash can get that someone cannot get for "free" either by working for it in the game or through patience. That makes your basic premise that you cannot get the same "power" as someone else moot.

"If you're going to attack someone, you may as well do so with fact instead of fiction..."

I'm not arguing that you can't get it with dilithium.

If I put an Armitage with AMS, Theta, Graviton Pulse, and the Torp Spread 3 console against the free equivalent, the Fleet Escort, equal pilots, the Armitage will **** the Fleet Escort from here to hell and back, laughing the whole way.

The difference: I can pay CPonts and get access to these things instantly.

If you were using dilithium, it would take you a great long while.

While you farm dilithium, I'm honing my ability to use these tools in PvP.

By the time you can gather it all and actually use it in PvP, I've already mastered it.

Nevertheless, it would appear "pay to win" is changing a bit regardless with the advent of the Fleet ships... I had a look at them, they are actually quite impressive. And best of all, don't require CPoints (or dilithium)... just contrabution to your fleet starbase.

shimmerless · July 2012

kelshando wrote: »

Thanks you for derailing the thread from a Quad cannon qustion to a pvp vs pve debate... its really helpful... no really.

But this is actually part of the whole issue with quads. In PvE, targets are largely stationary or sedate at best; buffing their base damage or giving them over 9,000 [Dmg] mods will eventually make them superior to DHCs.

But in PvP, with a lack of even one [Acc] mod you're just not going to hit anything that's moving faster than a drunk wino reaching for the TV remote. Quads aren't bad because of their DPS, it's because you cannot damage anyone if the bolts aren't making contact.

cmdrskyfaller · July 2012

captjamjamz wrote: »

Quads are getting a buff, just check Tribble. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

This is what irritates me about gaming companies. Caving in to whiny kids when they fail to use their brains.

Quad cannons are fine as they are. Their purpose was to give ships the ability to fight at high speeds while retaining almost the same damage as dual heavy cannons (which eat up wep power thus preventing high engine speed settings).

There is no need to buff them. Instead make the engine power setting a bigger % of the damage output of the guns. Aka a quad cannon running 70 engine 50 weapon (as an example) should be equivalent to a dual heavy cannon running at 90 weapon power. Currently its the equivalent of running the dual heavy at 80 weapon power.

kelshando · July 2012

cmdrskyfaller wrote: »

This is what irritates me about gaming companies. Caving in to whiny kids when they fail to use their brains.

Quad cannons are fine as they are. Their purpose was to give ships the ability to fight at high speeds while retaining almost the same damage as dual heavy cannons (which eat up wep power thus preventing high engine speed settings).

There is no need to buff them. Instead make the engine power setting a bigger % of the damage output of the guns. Aka a quad cannon running 70 engine 50 weapon (as an example) should be equivalent to a dual heavy cannon running at 90 weapon power. Currently its the equivalent of running the dual heavy at 80 weapon power.

That only works if you can mount all quads. right now you can only have 1 and would gimping your damage just to boost 1 weapon system. If you could put 3 or 4 quads on a ship then that could work. right now though running 1 quad and 2 to 3 DHC would make that worthless.

lilchibiclari · July 2012

captjamjamz wrote: »

Quads are getting a buff, just check Tribble. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Would you be willing to tell us just what the buff entails for those of us who have not purchased the Tier 4 Escort/Raptor from the C/Z-store on Tribble?

thibash · July 2012

hakaishinlegion wrote: »

Hm... Armitage with access to every CStore console available to make any power build they choose...

...against the free equivalent, the basic Fleet Escort. No CStore upgrades at all.

Put equal skill pilots in the two ships.

If you say it'd be a draw, I'd have to slap you for your inexperience in PvP.

Then get ready to be slap-blocked because:

A) You're comparing consoles, not ships.

You're still giving up console slots you could have used for free consoles (which, surprise surprise, also give a ship more power :eek: )
C) The consoles you mentioned in your second post (theta & graviton) are available on the exchange and thus don't require you to spend a penny.

You sir, just got slap-blocked.

mandrake45 · July 2012

In terms of statistical dps they have more damage than my mk xii borg weapons. actually in game parses show them to have less dps, at least against borg. whether that's just a borg thing due to the [borg] proc or it's due to the [acc] bonus I'm not sure.

Either way, I use them because I like them and they don't suck too badly right now.

carl103 · July 2012

It will be down to the borg proc. IMHO we need a way to buy a +borg vershion of them from the STF vendors if we own the originol ship. That modifier is +75DPS, thats pretty hard to beat no matter what.

ocp001 · July 2012

cmdrskyfaller wrote: »

This is what irritates me about gaming companies. Caving in to whiny kids when they fail to use their brains.

Me: Your near complete lack of understanding on HOW quad cannons work in this game is only out-shined by your rudeness.

Quad cannons are fine as they are. Their purpose was to give ships the ability to fight at high speeds while retaining almost the same damage as dual heavy cannons (which eat up wep power thus preventing high engine speed settings).

Me: They were designed to sell the San Paulo. Current implementation makes them USELESS for high speed fighting. -10 Weapon Power - 10 Engine Power. I'd be thrilled to PvP anyone if they were able (and naive enough) to mount 4. Every few second watching -40 to speed grind them to a halt.

You could run ANY other weapon and have better performance if "High speed fighting" is your goal. FYI my Defiant runs 125/90 in weapons with 70/50 in engines.

There is no need to buff them. Instead make the engine power setting a bigger % of the damage output of the guns. Aka a quad cannon running 70 engine 50 weapon (as an example) should be equivalent to a dual heavy cannon running at 90 weapon power. Currently its the equivalent of running the dual heavy at 80 weapon power.

Me: What you suggest is in fact, a buff. and they would still be useless for anything other than playing this games boring PvE system. [ACC]x2 [CrtD]x2 is what those cannons truly need, since as stated above me, you won't hit anything with them in PvP.

Oh and before you decry PvP'rs whiny kids and whomever else in your world is ticking you off here's another fact: in PvE [ACC] is even better, since the extra [ACC] gets converted to critical severity!

That simple change would make them absolutely a great item. As they are they are useless. This is a step in the right direction. What they really need to do is retool the defiant so that when you have quad cannons equipped it fires your weapons in a canon mode that matches the show. And fix the cannons more.

Seriously... how some people act like "the subject matter expert" on things they have no clue on...

hakaishinlegion · July 2012

thibash wrote: »

Then get ready to be slap-blocked because:

A) You're comparing consoles, not ships.
You're still giving up console slots you could have used for free consoles (which, surprise surprise, also give a ship more power :eek: )
C) The consoles you mentioned in your second post (theta & graviton) are available on the exchange and thus don't require you to spend a penny.

You sir, just got slap-blocked.

Meh. You sir, should have just realized how pathetic your existence is, given you actually believe this is any form of competition at all.

Regardless, the specifics of how you are wrong still stand...

A.) I don't compare either, actually. I compare what can be obtained via CPoints instantly versus what is not immediately available, given this is a PvP comparison and the PvE for dilithium is irrelevant. But no, I compared the Armitage to the Fleet Escort as well - Armitage has the fighter capacity that the Fleet Escort does not have, and 4 Runabouts is a rather huge advantage, ESPECIALLY in a 1v1 engagement. If you don't know that much, you're unfit for PvP.

B.) I'm giving up console slots of my choice. AMS for example (among several others) is vastly more useful than a depreciating-return on an extra armor or field emitter. The depreciated return on the two of those versus AMS and the Armitage (from the aforementioned notation) Torp Spread console (equal in damage to a Torp Spread 3 with an unlimited target acquisition and 360 degree radius) is laughable at best. And that is only one possible CPoint combination of many.

C.) Z0MG!!1!1ShiftOne! I mentioned two consoles that are on the exchange!!! 2 CONSOLES ON THE EXCHANGE?!?!?!?!

BLLLLLAAAAASPHEMY!!!!!!

That suddenly makes EVERYTHING said completely useless to someone who obviously doesn't PvP!

Whatever shall I do?!

...Yeah.

Nevertheless, you're correct. I mentioned 2 consoles available on the exchange... among the many more that aren't, which you had overlooked in your short-sighted attempt to seek some form of "victory" against an obviously superior PvPer...

After all, can't get it in the game, so have to seek that vanity here, amirite?!

So slap-blocked... I don't know how I will ever live with myself... /sarcasm

Enjoy your weekend, "sir".

Quad cannon vs DHC weapon parse?

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