Pre -Made Fleets whats your policy?

mettlemicky · July 2012

Hey Guys / Gals

With there been a fair few Pre Made teams from various fleets knocking around I was curious as to what, if any, you guys have as rules set from your fleet leader or your fleet general thoughts when you team up as a 5 man fleet premade.

Do you say to your team use what ever you like, equip your AMS, fly your carriers, use all the p2w consoles, or do you tell your fleet team.. keep it clean?

I am just interested as I have seen (as you all have) different fleets with different mindsets.

So if possible and you dont mind and you are in a fleet premade please answer the following:

1) Do you have set rules that you limit your fleet team to use, eg: no AMS, no Theata, no pet spam

2) Do you think its right premade teams from the same fleet use p2w consoles, pet spam when in the queues?

We at the 110th do have several players that sometimes like to form a 5 man team and join the queues, how ever we do have a strict policy that we dont use p2w consoles eg: AMS, Theata nor do we pet spam from carriers. Granted we are not the best out there but we give it our all and keep it clean.

Thanks for your time, interested to hear on what other pvp fleets thoughts are to the above 2 questions

mavairo · July 2012

I'm of two mind sets. I believe that if you are just starting out in pvp you shouldn't use the p2w toys. Because of how ludicrously powerful they are, they can and do become a crutch (particularly on the KDF side of things). You need a very firm grasp on the basics before you start using the toys.

Once you're stepping up to the majors though, it's time to break out the toys. No one shows restraint anymore anyway (be it through 4 cruisers and a bug ship, or consoles, or both) so let it rip.

Now Ideally, this TRIBBLE would never have been put into the game, but sadly we can't hit the reset button on this, at least not as long as cryptic (more specifically Gecko) is in charge.

talzerotwo · July 2012

Usually before a match that I am in a -full 5man premade- I say let's keep it clean consoles. Take that as you will, its tough to get everyone to do, but at least in a 5man premade it doesnt or shouldnt have a place.

My take on the matter, or at least my suggestion is the following:

List the various p2w consoles that shouldn't be in use (obviously an oddy chevron -could- be considered different from ams or theta).

Once that is done, have reps from some known pvpish fleets post what parts they agree or disagree with.

Then have anyone that is part of the core pvp premades in their fleet sign in agreement. (my thinking on this is that it should also apply to opvp 'pugs').

marctraiderz · July 2012

Generally, The Sad Pandas fleet is against any form of Pay2win (consoles) because its well known that these consoles are much more effective than a simple Hull Plating console, etc. (And also require more counters which is just impossible to do (Double sci teams, double engi teams, what not)

Sad Pandas is not against the use of Cstore or lockbox ships. Its kinda obvious that people want to fly the ship they like, if you would go and restrict the usage of those ships I doubt lots of members would stay in a fleet with such a restriction.

Another reason why Pandas is generally against the p2w (consoles) is that we'e like to keep our member pvp quality high, which ultimately means that players can develop and improve theirselves without resorting to the p2w 'stuff'. And I can assure you, that you can win from someone even without any pay to win, but because you know how to outfit your ship, skill it up and have excellent experience at PvP.

It has also been shown and proven in the Tier 3 vs Premades that even then a non pay2win using fleet with the odds against them (running lower tier ships) that its all about player skill eventually.

I've become an excellent PvPer without it, and so will/are my fellow Panda fleetmates.
Using these (sometimes) cheesy items will never make you a good PvPer in my opinion.

kkchnkthx
kkthxchnk
kkchnk
kkthx

thissler · July 2012

Nothing is so bad as the seemingly endless holds. It doesn't always happen, but it DOES happen. So sure you can counter some of them. But not all of them. There are just to many. That being said the only bit that should be removed from the game no questions asked just do it are the pet specials of draining, slowing or holding and all pets need to stay within ten K of the carrier or they vanish. Period. All done. All the tiny ships and devices rely on momma ships CINC and FC and that's ten K.

KKTHX bye.

hermannhetzer · July 2012

atm we run the most sporting builds possible... but if i encounter tsi-scramble-runabout-spam-carriers one more time, i might be a very angry clown again

nonetheless, in the end i believe one should be able to deal with whatever s**t might happen

falloutx23 · July 2012

Critz is p2w console free but with no restrictions on ships. Considering the number of players that justify the use of consoles now, whether right or wrong, it's definately a crutch not using them

shimmerless · July 2012

I've actually seen surprisingly few fleets use gimmicky consoles, at least in F v. F (F v. K queues are always too long for me). The advantage of team communication is so strong that you really don't need them, and to be honest if I came across a full team spamming Acetons or something I'd figure they were either completely unsure in their abilities or just bored.

EDIT: I have seen some teams use two or more carriers, though. I'm not against it (you should be able to fly whatever the hell you like) but I just cannot enjoy myself in those games for the life of me.

matteo716maikai · July 2012

TSI's policy is-

if you have ams or grav pulse, try not to use it unless someone else on the othe rteam uses it first.

this only applies to full 4-5 man tsi teams.

everything else is fair game i think.

ihaterickybobby1 · July 2012

marctraiderz wrote: »

Generally, The Sad Pandas fleet is against any form of Pay2win (consoles) because its well known that these consoles are much more effective than a simple Hull Plating console, etc. (And also require more counters which is just impossible to do (Double sci teams, double engi teams, what not)

Sad Pandas is not against the use of Cstore or lockbox ships. Its kinda obvious that people want to fly the ship they like, if you would go and restrict the usage of those ships I doubt lots of members would stay in a fleet with such a restriction.

Another reason why Pandas is generally against the p2w (consoles) is that we'e like to keep our member pvp quality high, which ultimately means that players can develop and improve theirselves without resorting to the p2w 'stuff'. And I can assure you, that you can win from someone even without any pay to win, but because you know how to outfit your ship, skill it up and have excellent experience at PvP.

It has also been shown and proven in the Tier 3 vs Premades that even then a non pay2win using fleet with the odds against them (running lower tier ships) that its all about player skill eventually.

I've become an excellent PvPer without it, and so will/are my fellow Panda fleetmates.
Using these (sometimes) cheesy items will never make you a good PvPer in my opinion.
kkchnkthx
kkthxchnk
kkchnk
kkthx

The highlighted part is my thoughts on the matter. We are p2w free in Show me your Critz, Pugging or if we have a 5 man going.

webdeath · July 2012

Indeed.. P2W really should not be used if your wearing a fleet tag, because then it makes the rest of your fleet out to be a P2W Spammer..

Just like generally when I see -nova core- in the Search I know to expect P2W of some form, if not every memeber of that fleet to have one. It's just what they have become known for from my perspective and from what I have been hearing from other players as well.

talzerotwo · July 2012

What's this like your third post bringuing us up? Find a better way bro.

thepleasuredome · July 2012

matteo716maikai wrote: »

TSI's policy is-

if you have ams or grav pulse, try not to use it unless someone else on the othe rteam uses it first.

this only applies to full 4-5 man tsi teams.

everything else is fair game i think.

SOB flies with this policy as well.

Arawn - SOB

ihaterickybobby1 · July 2012

talzerotwo wrote: »

What's this like your third post bringuing us up? Find a better way bro.

Find a better way to do what??

marctraiderz · July 2012

Mhh ok.

I just ment that after all, the game is about numbers, and variables. Mainly I would say, as a 5 man premade fighting another 5 man premade, where the opposing team does use TRIBBLE and p2w stuff, id say as a panda team we can beat it without using it as well. Mainly because we try to improve ourselves without it. and it IS possible.

On the ohter hand, in a 1v1 situation or pugging, and the opposin team uses all what god forbids, I have the following thoughts about it;

This game, and all its effects, consoles, etc... in the end its all numbers, yes. Behind the scenes its all numbers vs numbers.

And the thing that people tend to forget is, if one of these consoles puts those numbers out of whack to a great extend, almost no player is up against that. Not because experience is in the way, but because you cannot bend those behind the screen numbers. You can compensate for it with experience, but there is a line _somwhere_ there where even the most experienced PvPer cannot stand up against these odds.

Luckily, again, in a premade you have 5 good players at your side and you can all compensate for a few players on the ohter side using cheap sh*t.

kkchnk.

ussenterpisez · July 2012

Why is it OK to run P2W if there is Three of you but not Five? It isn't!

Your ****ing PvP up for everyone, do you really need untold pet spam and P2W to win?

Just yesterday I witnessed a PvE Fleet trying PvP for the first time, getting AMS'd and Graved ***** every other second by a PvP Fleet, great welcome, thanks fellas :P

gx4th23 · July 2012

Hahahahahahaha

You all act high and mighty "We don't use P2W!" no-this-that-or-any-other-thing-lets-only-lick-each-other now, but I've been around long enough to know it doesn't matter what fleet name you sport.

You will always see it in warzones. I don't care what fleet name you have, it's more the individual than the fleet.

I've been in enough fleets where they turned into build TRIBBLE, so my only policy is this. I see it flying in the match, it's fair game.

EDIT: Soon it'll not stop at p2w. It'll be this ability, or that ability, or your grandmother's cookies that were accidentally laced with ... something...

It's the old slippery slope argument but hell, you've all seen opvp chat long enough to know it'll end that way.

dassemsto · July 2012

OmegaXIII used to have a "fair play" policy...

That meant no abilities that were considered griefy, and no anything that was acknowledged broken by a dev.

The idea was that by avoiding the broken things, and learning to cope without them, we would be stronger every time a broken ability was fixed.

Unfortunately, as the observant reader will have noticed, there was a flaw in the plan... Cryptic didn't fix the broken TRIBBLE. (Or they took months/years to do it)

And the result is evident... Just think about it... When was the last time you fought a OmegaXIII premade? Can't remember? Don't worry, it's not amnesia. There hasn't been a OmegaXIII premade in over a year. Actually, I'm the only one left that is doing any PvP at all

So my advice would be: Keep it loose. Use the BS only if you're loosing bad. Don't use the TRIBBLE to steamroll PUGs. You'll feel better beating them with fair play.

marctraiderz · July 2012

gx4th23 wrote: »

Hahahahahahaha

You all act high and mighty "We don't use P2W!" no-this-that-or-any-other-thing-lets-only-lick-each-other now, but I've been around long enough to know it doesn't matter what fleet name you sport.

You will always see it in warzones. I don't care what fleet name you have, it's more the individual than the fleet.

I've been in enough fleets where they turned into build TRIBBLE, so my only policy is this. I see it flying in the match, it's fair game.

EDIT: Soon it'll not stop at p2w. It'll be this ability, or that ability, or your grandmother's cookies that were accidentally laced with ... something...

It's the old slippery slope argument but hell, you've all seen opvp chat long enough to know it'll end that way.

Good thing its always saved into peoples brains in the recent year who do use it and who don't

same for spread, lol'pengz, faw when all that TRIBBLE was broken. It was all obvious and it still will be

derekslide · July 2012

I don't often comment in posts like these... too much emotion over a leisure activity.
No one pays my internet bills, C-store purchases or anything else that allows me to have fun but me. So i'll use what I want. And so can/should anyone else.

Saying or believing anything else eventually comes down to a negative emotional reaction to something that is supposed to be fun!

And if you're not having fun... why are you still here?

Enjoy your /popcorn all,

Derek

murmurhem187 · July 2012

My fleet will, for the most part, hold off any console unless we are getting hit with crazy ams/grav pulse stuff.

Like if we run into another premade, we like to run "clean" for those. Unless of course it's an akira happy nova core team :eek:

webdeath · July 2012

talzerotwo wrote: »

What's this like your third post bringuing us up? Find a better way bro.

I have not been able to post all day yesterday, so it could not be my third post bringing up the P2W fleet. Sorry. Though this might be my third post. :P

talzerotwo · July 2012

I gotta say though, I can see where some other fleets threw in the towel at some point and said **** it, TRIBBLE you over with p2w. I haven't reached that point yet, but bs is bs and it keeps being brought up in threads that arent even aimed at what you want to get at. I never said 'bringing it up today', but you do so in different threads.

After the first call for cease fire on the p2w arms race a while back. Everything seemed to work for a little, and then people started finding other TRIBBLE to troll about. Then some folk said **** it, ima use it cuz *insert reason here*. The some fleets that were part of that p2w cease fire said "man **** this ****, if they broke it, I'ma break it too." Example that comes to mind is tsi. People call them hax or whatnot for whatever reason. I like them, I think they have awesome teamwork. At some point (and this is just from what I've read in forums. They got fed up with all the bs from trolls or legit players. *shrugs*

I could probably tell you the same thing I've been telling you until I'm blue in the face. Nothing will change your mind, and then you'll find someone else to go after.

At the end of the day, I don't know you. My life is great. So **** you bro. Peace out cubscouts.

webdeath · July 2012

Honestly, even though I love playing my Klingon.. Klingon side of the game just feels like P2W central... If it ain't P2W.. your doing it wrong.

And I hate it.. cause it means that the Feds that don't like fighting that sort of thing will que up for FvK less.

But of course this is the wrong thread for this..

KDF Side any fleet I'm in, I'll play Fair regardless and not use P2W. You REALLY don't need it.

francescos77 · July 2012

FSI also banned AMS in arenas, even when pugging, and generally we encourage people to not use other P2W consoles.
We also instruct our members to not leave arenas when pugging against a premade.

husanakx · July 2012

Noca Core is so funny... are they not the fleet that is most directly responsible for the AMS immunity. I don't remember any other fleet I ever played against the could so expertly time the AMS cho cho train. Noca Core is THE Ams fleet... don't be made at the forum loud mouths for point out your fleet is well known as such.

Anyway peace out bro.

clintsat · July 2012

The way I see it as a pugger:

I see people whine about P2W who are using phasers, with all phaser teams.
I see people spamming danubes compain about graviton pulse (which at least has a significant cooldown)
Most of the ques seems to use AMS, etc.
Pretty much all FvK is Klingon console/fighter spam

As a sci/sci, what is fair to use? Is the concern with P2W just the cost or is it that the abilities have no reasonable counter? Is the concern only among a couple of vocal PVP fleets (and/or those that can't afford the consoles) or is it truly community wide?

I'm honestly curious to know - I play a sci and several of the consoles play into the build theme...but I really don't want to be a jerk.

havam · July 2012

clintsat wrote: »

The way I see it as a pugger:
I see people whine about P2W who are using phasers, with all phaser teams.

I see people spamming danubes compain about graviton pulse (which at least has a significant cooldown)

Most of the ques seems to use AMS, etc.

Pretty much all FvK is Klingon console/fighter spam

As a sci/sci, what is fair to use? Is the concern with P2W just the cost or is it that the abilities have no reasonable counter? Is the concern only among a couple of vocal PVP fleets (and/or those that can't afford the consoles) or is it truly community wide?

I'm honestly curious to know - I play a sci and several of the consoles play into the build theme...but I really don't want to be a jerk.

LOL QFT, also consoles are P2W, but Doffs and Lockbox ships are fair game

talzerotwo · July 2012

husanakx wrote: »

Noca Core is so funny... are they not the fleet that is most directly responsible for the AMS immunity. I don't remember any other fleet I ever played against the could so expertly time the AMS cho cho train. Noca Core is THE Ams fleet... don't be made at the forum loud mouths for point out your fleet is well known as such.

Anyway peace out bro.

You funny man. Nothing else I say to you will matter otherwise; so **** you too bro

.

clintsat wrote: »

The way I see it as a pugger:
I see people whine about P2W who are using phasers, with all phaser teams.

I see people spamming danubes compain about graviton pulse (which at least has a significant cooldown)

Most of the ques seems to use AMS, etc.

Pretty much all FvK is Klingon console/fighter spam

As a sci/sci, what is fair to use? Is the concern with P2W just the cost or is it that the abilities have no reasonable counter? Is the concern only among a couple of vocal PVP fleets (and/or those that can't afford the consoles) or is it truly community wide?

I'm honestly curious to know - I play a sci and several of the consoles play into the build theme...but I really don't want to be a jerk.

You bring up an excellent point. Depends on who you ask though, phasers are in a sense op. On one person, not so much, on 4 to 5 people in a team, yeah probably.

People might say the same thing about scramble sensors or the subsystem procs. But how many people really spec at least 6 points into subsystem repair to counteract phasers, or spec at least 6 points into scramble resist. Not many people do, although I do. It does explain my TRIBBLE dps.

In cases such as that things are either op, or people don't want to take away skill points from certain parts of their build to compensate. I fly two different setups if im fvfing or fvking (spam clearing)

As the primary healer I can't afford to be subsystem proc'ed and on someone else's 'tricobalt launch time'. Can't really afford to be scrambled either, even by a SS1. I'm specced out full defense, but even then things like theta or graviton pulse can swing me 50/50 if it's a stalemate.

P2W is what you call it personally. As a sci captain using sci skills though, fly whatever you want. imo the sci abilities are underpowered in the sense that most people have resists to tb, tbr, energy drain. So use what sci abilities most atm aren't specced to resist. There looks to be a reasonable counterbalance.

mikey20133 · July 2012

I myself speak for
Alpha legion,
Were a new fleet that has just started focusing on premades and pvp. luckily we have good teachers at the moment (Thank you all pandas), and have come leaps and bounds from where we were(much room for improvement still

)

But to the op, we're run clean no question, no p2w in pvp outside the fleet.
All pve and in house pvp spamm the TRIBBLE as much as you like, we all have it, it sits there in our banks gathering dust, but you got to ask yourselves do you need it?

We're doing well with out it..... And we're new....

I believe one of the pandas in a previous post mentioned a pve fleet turning pvp and I think he means us... He pugged and ended up on a team of 4 that spammed everything under the sun, we had 3 new fleet member that had NEVER Pvpd and that was what they ran into, guess what they though they needed to be competitive?

Myself as fleet leader didn't make the rules, the elders in my fleet did, we keep it clean to make it enjoyable, winning isn everything but it is better than loosing but at what cost....

Ripping apart a pug so bad he never comes back to pvp?

Were resilient...and we will be back, not nice when the people using the TRIBBLE gloat they beat a premade in opvp..... Remember this it's not you it's your op consoles.

We wont run it and I believe the highly respected fleets should not promote it either

Alpha legion leader
Mikey

hyprodimus · July 2012

husanakx wrote: »

Noca Core is so funny... are they not the fleet that is most directly responsible for the AMS immunity. I don't remember any other fleet I ever played against the could so expertly time the AMS cho cho train. Noca Core is THE Ams fleet... don't be made at the forum loud mouths for point out your fleet is well known as such.

Anyway peace out bro.

QFT.

Our fleet policy is 1 for 1. If you throw out Theta, we get to use something too. I personally dont own any P2W besides AMS. And I bought that before I started to PvP, I just wanted the Venture skin.

When I use my carriers, I keep green runabouts or green siphons in my inventory for those "emergencies." While the fighters arent P2W, they are still overpowered.

I was tempted by the consumer in me to buy a klingon console during the sale. I decided not to since I think I might rely on it making excuses to use it more.

Here is my list in no particular order:
1) AMS
2) Plasmonic
3) Aceton Assimilators
4) Blue Danubes
5) Blue siphons
6) Theta Vent

I dont have a problem with Scramble or Tractor beams. You have to give up valuable Science Boff slots to run those. I think its overpowered when you can drain my power and slow me to a halt (even with 6 in insulators and dampeners + the borg deflector) at the cost of a console or hanger slot.

Theta Vent is on the list for similar reasons. Fast maneuverable ships get EWP (and kills your crew) and dont need to be a cruiser. Aceton is more of an annoyance and can usually be avoided.

Theres people saying they will play the game their way and use anything in the game. Fine, just remember there is an additional hidden cost of community respect when you use P2W and OP pets.

Pre -Made Fleets whats your policy?

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