From Mother Tribble, with love (Fed Fleet Ship Stats)

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  rayezilla Member Posts: 139 Arc User

  July 2012 edited July 2012

  bah, that LT uni on the F Assault cruiser is going to be ANOTHER TAC for me!
  
  MUA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

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  nynik Member Posts: 1,626 Arc User

  July 2012 edited July 2012

  Thanks for this reference.

  

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  mehen Member Posts: 0 Arc User

  July 2012 edited July 2012

  It's odd...they seem to be trying to make the Fleet Recon Sci into something of an assault science cruiser, while making the Fleet Nova into a science-escort hybrid. I'll have to fly them to see how they balance out, but it will be interesting to see what a Comm Science plus a LtComm Tactical can do with 14 base turn.
  
  As for the Nebula, I think it would've been cool to take another station--heck, maybe two stations--and make them universal. It is supposed to be the modular workhorse of the fleet, no? Then again, it already has been turned even moreso into a science-cruiser hybrid, so maybe that would've stepped on the oddy's toes somewhat. But I think, overall, with some ships becoming even greater in dps strength, it would be nice to tweak the Fleet Science Refits a bit, so that they would have target subsystem II instead of I. That way, science wouldn't get lost as tanks and dps'ers grow further and further into their extremes. Just a thought.

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  rayezilla Member Posts: 139 Arc User

  July 2012 edited July 2012

  yes, I agree with you on science vessels. They should really be the kind of ship that increases the whole team's DPS, enough to make up for the fact that they don't hit as hard as the tac/escort

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  ferdzso0 Member Posts: 0 Arc User

  July 2012 edited July 2012

  rayezilla wrote: »

  yes, I agree with you on science vessels. They should really be the kind of ship that increases the whole team's DPS, enough to make up for the fact that they don't hit as hard as the tac/escort

  
  little bit off: I myself deal as much dmg in a sci as your average escort and the sci abilities make me do that kinda dmg, so sci vessels make up for the loss of dmg in sci abilities (though some are nerfed beyond usefulness)
  
  however I am disappointed. the fleet long range sci retro is available at tier 5 military. I will grind enough dilithium for the normal retro version of it by the time a fleet can get to tier 5 military... :S
  
  also OP: the fleet escort as we know it has been renamed to patrol escort, and the fleet escort here is the Sabre and such

  ---

  10k DPS Vesta threads: 1; 2

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  mehen Member Posts: 0 Arc User

  July 2012 edited July 2012

  ferdzso0 wrote: »

  little bit off: I myself deal as much dmg in a sci as your average escort and the sci abilities make me do that kinda dmg, so sci vessels make up for the loss of dmg in sci abilities (though some are nerfed beyond usefulness)
  
  however I am disappointed. the fleet long range sci retro is available at tier 5 military. I will grind enough dilithium for the normal retro version of it by the time a fleet can get to tier 5 military... :S
  
  also OP: the fleet escort as we know it has been renamed to patrol escort, and the fleet escort here is the Sabre and such

  
  Yeah, and your average cruiser runs a skittle-boat, so going by average is wonky at best. :P
  
  My Nebula averages around 3k dps, which is fairly respectable for being an engi captain...but nowhere near what I can do in an escort (5k+ easy). I don't expect my Nebula to contend with a Defiant in sheer power (though let's be honest...the gap shouldn't be that big, canon-wise), but I do want more utility out of my fleet workhorse. So, if I grind out for my fleet refit, why shouldn't science vessels get a perk to make up for the fact that they are designed neither for complete tanking, nor for obscene dps? Also, Fleet Science Vessel Refit, when I checked, was Tier 3 shipyard...the LRSV was Tier 5.

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  gpgtx Member Posts: 1,579 Arc User

  July 2012 edited July 2012

  the fleet galaxy makes me sad

  
  

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  ferdzso0 Member Posts: 0 Arc User

  July 2012 edited July 2012

  mehen wrote: »

  but nowhere near what I can do in an escort (5k+ easy)

  
  you say easy. from what I have seen that is not so easy for most people. I tracked combatlog for the couple of days in elite and normal stfs, and some pvp.
  the best escorts I have seen scratched around 3500k dps. and with them, the missions were easy as hell. in a sci, you can deal that amount of dmg, without a sweat. so at this point a sci can deal the necessary amount of dmg, better than your avarage (and by that I mean well built, but not completely thought through) escort, or anything else. plus the abilities are way more useful than on an escort.
  
  all that said, I am sad to see that the escorts still are bad at sci abilities (probably for the reason I just stated, that sci abilities can get you loads of dps, done right)
  
  edit: also, I do not see why would anyone use the fleet sci vessel. the other ships are just better. ofc you unlock the long range sci later, and basically that is the ship that can substitute it fully, but the stats are just not convincing

  ---

  10k DPS Vesta threads: 1; 2

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  lianthelia Member Posts: 7,846 Arc User

  July 2012 edited July 2012

  mehen wrote: »

  It's odd...they seem to be trying to make the Fleet Recon Sci into something of an assault science cruiser, while making the Fleet Nova into a science-escort hybrid. I'll have to fly them to see how they balance out, but it will be interesting to see what a Comm Science plus a LtComm Tactical can do with 14 base turn.
  
  As for the Nebula, I think it would've been cool to take another station--heck, maybe two stations--and make them universal. It is supposed to be the modular workhorse of the fleet, no? Then again, it already has been turned even moreso into a science-cruiser hybrid, so maybe that would've stepped on the oddy's toes somewhat. But I think, overall, with some ships becoming even greater in dps strength, it would be nice to tweak the Fleet Science Refits a bit, so that they would have target subsystem II instead of I. That way, science wouldn't get lost as tanks and dps'ers grow further and further into their extremes. Just a thought.

  
  Well the recon was always a little more dps than other science ships, I do agree that it would be nice if they did give the Nebula a perhaps another universal slot...like maybe the ensign? If they give it a lt cmdr slot it might be considered to much like the Odyssey.

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  bladeofkahless Member Posts: 0 Arc User

  July 2012 edited July 2012

  ussultimatum wrote: »

  This...this is sad.
  
  Still saddled with an awful turn rate but at least more shield and hull to compensate. 5 Eng consoles and the same dreaded Eng BOFF layout.
  
  This is a real shame, they need to rethink the ensign and hopefully make it a Uni like the Negh'var got.

  
  Agreed.
  I'm cool with the 5 eng consoles (I know everyone wanted another tac), but they still couldn't make that Ens Eng station on the Exploration cruiser a uni, huh?
  For shame, Cryptic. For shame.
  :mad:

  ---

  It's me, Chrome. [Join Date: May 2009]
  
  "Oh, I may be captain by rank... but I never wanted to be anything else but an engineer." ~Montgomery Scott~

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  ussultimatum Member Posts: 0 Arc User

  July 2012 edited July 2012

  nynik wrote: »

  Thanks for this reference.

  
  The real thanks go to raketh1, he did all the work.
  
  

  ferdzso0 wrote: »

  little bit off: I myself deal as much dmg in a sci as your average escort and the sci abilities make me do that kinda dmg, so sci vessels make up for the loss of dmg in sci abilities (though some are nerfed beyond usefulness)

  
  I would say that is highly unlikely.
  
  While I've pulled about 4k DPS in ACT in an RSV, thats still quite a bit under what my Escorts are capable of in overall DPS and it doesn't even come close to their burst (which is much, much higher).
  
  

  ferdzso0 wrote: »

  also OP: the fleet escort as we know it has been renamed to patrol escort, and the fleet escort here is the Sabre and such

  
  Thanks for clarifying.
  
  

  ferdzso0 wrote: »

  the best escorts I have seen scratched around 3500k dps.

  
  Even in ACT, which tends to be more accurate and shows numbers in that region, that number is most certainly not indicative of "the best escorts". The number you want to see from well built and played escorts is going to be in the 5k to 7k arena, and again their burst is much much higher than that.

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  mehen Member Posts: 0 Arc User

  July 2012 edited July 2012

  ferdzso0 wrote: »

  you say easy. from what I have seen that is not so easy for most people. I tracked combatlog for the couple of days in elite and normal stfs, and some pvp.
  the best escorts I have seen scratched around 3500k dps. and with them, the missions were easy as hell. in a sci, you can deal that amount of dmg, without a sweat. so at this point a sci can deal the necessary amount of dmg, better than your average (and by that I mean well built, but not completely thought through) escort, or anything else. plus the abilities are way more useful than on an escort.
  
  all that said, I am sad to see that the escorts still are bad at sci abilities (probably for the reason I just stated, that sci abilities can get you loads of dps, done right)
  
  edit: also, I do not see why would anyone use the fleet sci vessel. the other ships are just better. ofc you unlock the long range sci later, and basically that is the ship that can substitute it fully, but the stats are just not convincing

  
  Really? You don't see the value in an escort-like ship that can tractor, beam overload II, then pop PSW 3? Neither the LRSV nor the RSV have a LtComm tact last I checked, so I think the Fleet SV Refit is going to occupy a nice little niche for escort folks wanting some good utility. And tbh, the "damage" done by science skills, especially for PvP, are relegated to taking down shields, hence why some of the best torp builds are based around science vessels. With the new turn rate buffs, this will only be enhanced, but there is no way a science vessel will ever compete with an escort, given a competent/identical captain is in both.
  
  Then again, dps changes depending on the STF, your role in it, and what log you are using. But yes, from the logs I use, I hit 2800-3100 dps in my Nebula, and 4k-5k in my flort. Now, I did change my skills to max out particle generators, so my flort dps will have decreased, but nowhere near enough to allow my Nebula to challenge it.
  
  Either way, I see the changes being like this for the science vessels:
  
  
  Research Science Vessel: This is the poor-man's LRSV, with pretty much identical stats of the original LRSV refit, with the Lt.Comm and Lt sci/engi stations swapped. More geared for CC/healing, and is nice for a tier 1 shipyard req.
  
  Recon Science Vessel: Extra tact slot makes it slightly more appealing for dps, but I think the biggest help is the turn rate of 13.
  
  Science Vessel: Off-dps, opposite to the Nebula. Can spike and CC very well, but can't tank long to save its life. Best not let its shields drop...won't have the heals to survive. Best suited for hit and run beam boat.
  
  Nebula: Remains pretty much static. Incredible jack-of-all-trades, though will never reach the offensive ability of RSV/SV refits. Extra engi console will help with tanking, extra universal console.
  
  LRSV: Just like the RSV, helped out by the extra tactical slot, which might actually make it quite appealing to off-dps-minded folks.
  
  DSSV: Just a science console means a giant yawn from me...never really understood the appeal of it, although it is great at debuffs/healing.

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  meurik Member Posts: 856 Arc User

  July 2012 edited July 2012

  With all these fantastic bridge officer layouts (and some not so good), it would be lovely if they would unlock every ship of the "class" as skins to be used at max level.
  
  If I want to fly an Assault Cruiser (Sovereign) with the layout of an Exploration Cruiser (Galaxy), it should be possible. For obvious reasons, you'd end up "blocking" the mix-and-match functionality, if you choose a Sovereign template, prohibiting it from using Galaxy parts for example.

  

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  nikkisupernova Member Posts: 3 Arc User

  July 2012 edited July 2012

  I'm a little lost on this stuff. Are they redoing the existing ships in the game? Creating a new "Fleet" class of ships we'll have to buy from C-store or with dilithium? Or what is it exactly?

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  lianthelia Member Posts: 7,846 Arc User

  July 2012 edited July 2012

  nikkisupernova wrote: »

  I'm a little lost on this stuff. Are they redoing the existing ships in the game? Creating a new "Fleet" class of ships we'll have to buy from C-store or with dilithium? Or what is it exactly?

  
  Some ships are getting retrofits...and a bunch but not all ships are getting fleet retrofits. The fleet retrofits will be purchased through the new fleet starbase stuff, thats the jist of it though I'm still not a 100% on details.

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  azurianstar Member Posts: 6,985 Arc User

  July 2012 edited July 2012

  nikkisupernova wrote: »

  I'm a little lost on this stuff. Are they redoing the existing ships in the game? Creating a new "Fleet" class of ships we'll have to buy from C-store or with dilithium? Or what is it exactly?

  
  Basically, Fleet ships are slightly better than C-store ships.
  
  There are a few ships that are for 200,000 Fleet Credits and a full Fleet version for 20,000 fleet credits and 1 fleet ship requistion.
  
  They mentioned somekind of C-store purchase and hinted that could be the ship requesition form.
  
  
  
  
  IMHO, I just wish Cryptic went and made a Tier 6 with these new ships or revised the ship tiers to where we could upgrade them. So we get to choose if we want that Fleet Galaxy with a Third Tactical Console or change that Ensign Engineering to something else.

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  sparhawk Member Posts: 796 Arc User

  July 2012 edited July 2012

  nikkisupernova wrote: »

  I'm a little lost on this stuff. Are they redoing the existing ships in the game? Creating a new "Fleet" class of ships we'll have to buy from C-store or with dilithium? Or what is it exactly?

  
  1) Sort of, there will be new variants of existing ships. There are exceptions though (no Galaxy-X for example).
  2) Two new classes actually, retrofits and fleet refits from the new fleet base system. Retrofits are available with fleet credits only, and the fleet refits will require fleet credits and an C-Store token. In addition if you want the ship costumes or special consoles of the C-Store version of these ships you will need to own the appropriate C-Store ship. All of these new ships are also character specific (no account level unlocks).

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  ferdzso0 Member Posts: 0 Arc User

  July 2012 edited July 2012

  ussultimatum wrote: »

  I would say that is highly unlikely.
  
  While I've pulled about 4k DPS in ACT in an RSV, thats still quite a bit under what my Escorts are capable of in overall DPS and it doesn't even come close to their burst (which is much, much higher).

  
  I said average escort. I know what a well built escort is capable of. but the truth is most escorts in STFs (I mainly play PVE, my sci is not that competitive in PVP, however I have fun with it in there too) do not get above 4k DPS (burst DPS, maybe but consistent DPS I think is a bit more important, since this means more overall dmg)
  
  

  mehen wrote: »

  Really? You don't see the value in an escort-like ship that can tractor, beam overload II, then pop PSW 3? Neither the LRSV nor the RSV have a LtComm tact last I checked, so I think the Fleet SV Refit is going to occupy a nice little niche for escort folks wanting some good utility. And tbh, the "damage" done by science skills, especially for PvP, are relegated to taking down shields, hence why some of the best torp builds are based around science vessels. With the new turn rate buffs, this will only be enhanced, but there is no way a science vessel will ever compete with an escort, given a competent/identical captain is in both.

  
  well it still is one console short, and its health is low. plus the turnrate doesnt feel that big of a bonus. I mean you have to operate from a 90 degree arc, which can be done with even the DSSV (but yes, you might wanna drop some RCS into the consoles, sacraficing space, so maybe this justifies it -> yeah I am thinking it through while writing )
  
  

  mehen wrote: »

  Then again, dps changes depending on the STF, your role in it, and what log you are using. But yes, from the logs I use, I hit 2800-3100 dps in my Nebula, and 4k-5k in my flort. Now, I did change my skills to max out particle generators, so my flort dps will have decreased, but nowhere near enough to allow my Nebula to challenge it.

  
  thats why I use my calculated DPS (outgoing dmg/time of the engagement) just to compare myself to others (thats why I "know" so much about the dps of escorts). I avg between 2800-3200, and I rarely go bellow this. burst damage wise over 60 seconds I could get 4000+ dps (against STF boss). but I think most escort captains (when I was one I didnt either) do not check their dps. they just eyeball the damage based on advices, but not their own calculations. in the end even in elite STFs in a longer game (15-20 minutes) overall they will not, or barely dmg more than me (and I am helping their numbers with my CC skills too).
  

  mehen wrote: »

  DSSV: Just a science console means a giant yawn from me...never really understood the appeal of it, although it is great at debuffs/healing.

  
  I perosnally use this ship, and will use the fleet version, if I see that the FLRSV is far from me. first of all it is an eyecandy, which for me is a bonus but in the end it is extremely good for tanking. the sci slots I use for universal consoles and shield buffs. I have a hard time handling incoming damage (I aggro usually groups of 5-6 when this comes to be a problem, but not once I defended against two groups of mirror ships, it is fun, but not easy for me), so the bonus hull comes in handy (and with the fleet version now we are reaching escort heights again

  ---

  10k DPS Vesta threads: 1; 2

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  khayuung Member Posts: 1,876 Arc User

  July 2012 edited July 2012

  I can see that my poor dreadnought keeps getting out-classed with each passing generation. Its starting to feel like Akira all over again!
  
  I can't deny the logic of this statement, but it sure sucks to have no means of upgrading the Gal-X. Be nice if they have C-store specific upgrade routes, like how you can only buy some fighters if you have the original carrier.

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  takeshi6 Member Posts: 752 Arc User

  July 2012 edited July 2012

  ussultimatum wrote: »

  raketh1 wrote: »

  Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit:
  
  Commander - Tac
  Lt Commander -Tac
  Ensign - Tac
  Lieutenant - Eng
  Lieutenant - Sci
  
  
  
  Engineering: 3
  Tactical: 5
  Science: 2
  
  Weapons
  Fore: 4
  Aft: 3
  
  Turn: 17
  Hull: 33000
  Crew: 50
  Device Slots: 3
  Shield Mod: 0.9

  
  Not sure what there is to say about this.
  
  The same defiant we know and love, with more hull, a third device slot and...5 Tac Consoles. :eek:
  
  Love it.

  
  Oh yeah.
  
  I look forward to getting my Main into one of these. The U.S.S. Raging Tempest (my current Tac Escort Retro) is going to be getting some upgrades. (meaning I plan on decomissioning the current Raging Tempest and using its name on this ship once I get it) :cool:
  
  Anyone know if this thing is going to have access to all the skins that the regular Tac Escort Retro has? I ask because I use the Sao Paulo skin, and want to keep that even on this new ship.
  

  ussultimatum wrote: »

  raketh1 wrote: »

  Fleet Assault Cruiser Retrofit
  
  Lt Commander - Tac
  Lieutenant - Tac
  Commander - Eng
  Ensign - Eng
  Lieutenant - Uni
  
  
  Engineering: 4
  Tactical: 4
  Science: 2
  
  Weapons
  Fore: 4
  Aft: 4
  
  Turn: 7
  Hull: 42900
  Crew: 800
  Device Slots: 4
  Shield Mod: 1.1

  
  Decent update, it now has a very very tac heavy BOFF layout, with a Lt Uni that will most likely end up Sci anyway.

  
  Indeed. Although you never know--someone might use the Lt Uni as another Tac, or even another Eng.
  
  Not sure what I'll do myself--all I know is that I have GOT to get one of my Alts into one of these things. :cool:

  

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  rayezilla Member Posts: 139 Arc User

  July 2012 edited July 2012

  I'm excited about the fleet assault cruiser too: I'm probably going to have a sci to put in there for tanking and a tac for moar pewpew. Can't wait for this patch..... getting bored with the doff/stf grind that we've got now. I have the achievement for each STF and all blue doffs, working on all purple.

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  carbongrip Member Posts: 0 Arc User

  July 2012 edited July 2012

  mehen wrote: »

  DSSV: Just a science console means a giant yawn from me...never really understood the appeal of it, although it is great at debuffs/healing.

  
  The DSSV is a great shield tank, this just lets you add another field generator
  

  khayuung wrote: »

  I can see that my poor dreadnought keeps getting out-classed with each passing generation. Its starting to feel like Akira all over again!

  
  They said they did not refit anything with built in abilities like phaser lance and transwarp. Might be a c store version with saucer separation soon.
  

  rayezilla wrote: »

  I'm excited about the fleet assault cruiser too: I'm probably going to have a sci to put in there for tanking and a tac for moar pewpew. Can't wait for this patch..... getting bored with the doff/stf grind that we've got now. I have the achievement for each STF and all blue doffs, working on all purple.

  
  The Assault Cruiser will now be very tactical and hull tanking now like in the movies.

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  ferdzso0 Member Posts: 0 Arc User

  July 2012 edited July 2012

  reyan01 wrote: »

  Looking forward to this one - will be sticking the Rhode Island skin on it, and intend to fit it out with two Tetryon dual-beam banks, MkXII quantum lancher forward and XI aft - with it's science abilities the little Nova/Rhode Island should be nice little shield melter!

  
  stick on the front two torpedos (photon with three blue projectile doffs, quantum with three purple doffs) and you gonna see miracles with the right skills

  ---

  10k DPS Vesta threads: 1; 2

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  hyprodimus Member Posts: 196 Arc User

  July 2012 edited July 2012

  Here is a chart of the new ships' stats and boff layouts. I have hard time distinguishing the "Fleet", "Retrofit", "Refit", "Heavy" Advanced" etc ships.
  
  I usually associate ships with a class. And I also like to use a "slot" visual representation for boffs rather then their rank.
  
  

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  mehen Member Posts: 0 Arc User

  July 2012 edited July 2012

  hyprodimus wrote: »

  Here is a chart of the new ships' stats and boff layouts. I have hard time distinguishing the "Fleet", "Retrofit", "Refit", "Heavy" Advanced" etc ships.
  
  I usually associate ships with a class. And I also like to use a "slot" visual representation for boffs rather then their rank.
  
  

  
  May your beer remain eternally cold and frothy, good sir!
  
  But this only reinforces my confusion with the Saber Refit...why fly it at all? A patrol escort can do everything it does, only with more hull, crew and shielding. And, it comes at tier 1, as opposed to the Saber's tier 2.

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  hyprodimus Member Posts: 196 Arc User

  July 2012 edited July 2012

  Didnt even notice that. But yeah...why would you use the Tier II-starbase Fleet Escort Retrofit when theres a better ship in literally every way one tier lower.
  
  I double checked with the wiki too, and theres no mistake. Its not like the Saber line looks any better/more Fed than the Dervish line.

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  dave18193 Member Posts: 416 Arc User

  July 2012 edited July 2012

  Any word yet on if the Advanced Escort is getting a fleet refit/retrofit?
  
  Personally, I'm hoping we see the MVAE BOFF layout, just with more hull, shields and the +1 turn rate. And an extra TAC console (:
  
  Not seeing much point in the T5 Sabre tbh. The uprated "patrol escort" is better in literally every way. Its a shame, as I was hoping to be flying an Andorian style Ushaan for my VA, since they have delayed the Kumari retrofit again. Hope those aren't the final stats, at least for this class.
  
  Why not give it an extra degree in turn rate, and make the Lt Sci a Lt Cmdr (maybe even reducing the Lt Cmdr Tac to Lt to compensate)? That would give it a boost whilst still being fairly realistic with canon and giving it a niche against (although not surpassing) the patrol escort. That and maybe shift that extra Eng console to either Tac or Sci and it would be onto a winner, although the durability doesn't hurt.

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  azaral Member Posts: 18 Arc User

  July 2012 edited July 2012

  how do I get that assault cruiser? ATM i have no fleet but
  I have 5 VA toons

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  mehen Member Posts: 0 Arc User

  July 2012 edited July 2012

  dave18193 wrote: »

  Any word yet on if the Advanced Escort is getting a fleet refit/retrofit?
  
  Personally, I'm hoping we see the MVAE BOFF layout, just with more hull, shields and the +1 turn rate. And an extra TAC console (:
  
  Not seeing much point in the T5 Sabre tbh. The uprated "patrol escort" is better in literally every way. Its a shame, as I was hoping to be flying an Andorian style Ushaan for my VA, since they have delayed the Kumari retrofit again. Hope those aren't the final stats, at least for this class.
  
  Why not give it an extra degree in turn rate, and make the Lt Sci a Lt Cmdr (maybe even reducing the Lt Cmdr Tac to Lt to compensate)? That would give it a boost whilst still being fairly realistic with canon and giving it a niche against (although not surpassing) the patrol escort. That and maybe shift that extra Eng console to either Tac or Sci and it would be onto a winner, although the durability doesn't hurt.

  
  
  If you look at the shipyard tiers, they list rewards given once you reach each one; while the shipyard doesn't list either the fleet heavy escort cruiser or the advanced escort, they are listed in the actual tier rewards...as well as an unlisted Fed ship and destroyers.
  
  But yeah, those Saber stats need a big change, and I'm wondering how the Adv Escort Fleet Refit will be changed. Giving a universal ensign to the Patrol makes the Advcort's science ensign redundant. Maybe they'll give the Advcort identical stats to the MVAE, just have it minus the console?

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  matchstick606 Member Posts: 233 Arc User

  July 2012 edited July 2012

  I know i maybe the odd one out but i hope they have plans for a fleet miranda class. just want to see my fav ship get some love.... I did like that you can buy it back now, it's a start.

  [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  MY FLEET:http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=498091

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