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I have a question to cruiser captains
enyojaros
Member Posts: 34 Arc User
What is it with the guys in cruisers that happily sit back and wait for escorts (either faction) to get aggro.
It's starting to drive me to rage, dosnt seem to matter if its STF's or Borg encounters they kick back and wait for the escorts to go in first.
Now I tested this because I thought there was a prob in game with aggro control, but no on a tac cap in Bortasque and and Oddy (obviously I used diff toons) I have no prob taking and keeping aggro and surviving long enough to kill the objective.
So again what is the problem with taking and keeping aggro, is it the paint job you dont want to scratch or what, I have to ask I am genuinly curious.
It's starting to drive me to rage, dosnt seem to matter if its STF's or Borg encounters they kick back and wait for the escorts to go in first.
Now I tested this because I thought there was a prob in game with aggro control, but no on a tac cap in Bortasque and and Oddy (obviously I used diff toons) I have no prob taking and keeping aggro and surviving long enough to kill the objective.
So again what is the problem with taking and keeping aggro, is it the paint job you dont want to scratch or what, I have to ask I am genuinly curious.
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Or little red fireballs
Time and time again I have seen cruisers hanging back. I have on occasion seen escorts/raptors/BoPs zooming foreward into mobs which is dumb on their part. The one thing that also bugs me is that cruisers tend to keep heals for themselves, there have been times when my hull was sitting at 10% and the cruiser at 70% hull heals itself instead of helping a team mate.
It annoys me that people cant't learn the strength of their ships, how to play a role in a team action and generally ignorance to team mates in pugs.
Now lets all wait for Sollvax to post if he hasn't already by my time of hitting post reply.:rolleyes:
@DevolvedOne
Red Alerts -- sometimes I hold back until I figure out where everyone is headed.
As far as holding back on heals -- I tend to primarily run as a self-healing tank, not a healboat, but I'll throw out an Engineering team or hazard emitters from time to time. I do have 6 points threat control, but that's just so sollvax can rage and tell me I'm doing it wrong.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "I weary of the chase. Wait for me. I shall be merciful and quick."
Rear Admiral , Engineering Division
U.S.S. Sheffield N.C.C. 92016
People zone at different rates, at least some of the time the cruiser will come in slightly after the escorts. I see the equivalent in fantasy games such as EQ... dps engaging before the tank has agro....likely a similar issue. Give the cruiser an extra couple seconds to draw agro.
But bring the necessary firepower also.
Or sing as a bard.
Or in game terms, complain about everything
For Borg encounters, I have no problem taking the Zorro and leading the way, I just want to make sure the fleet follows me. I first go after the next closest cube thats ALONE, not sitting close to another one or two cubes.
The only time I back off at Starbase 24 is when we are about to get the first 50 ships killed. I full impulse it back to starting position before Im surrounded by 30 ships that all decloaked on us. I'll wait for the others to eventually die, respawn, then together pick them off from the edge as you are supposed to.
But when you see the USS Zorro, or my female toon flying the USS Veracruz D (Sovy), we are all up in that mess and dont let escorts do our killing for us.
Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader
Yeah, there's two big problem right there.
Escorts are faster and don't even bother to wait. And often times a Cruiser will want to get it's power levels back up, and some folks don't want to wait for that either (most captains don't want to have to rush in with their power levels ridding the gutter, especially when they're expected to be the target).
And yeah, no one bothers to organize and so few people play well together. Thus a lot of Cruiser folks will also wait because they've gotten tired of running headlong into the fray only for the Escorts to ignore them and head after other targets, leaving the Cruiser to get swarmed and die. So you pull up, slow/stop to see if anyone is following, then an impatient Escort captain zooms past you at lightspeed...
So really, the problem is lousy communication all around, and a lot of impatience with folks not even waiting long enough for anyone to type out a message and form some type of (incredibly basic) strategy. Good thing the game has built in voice chat. Or it would be except that no one bothers to use it...
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@ren_larreck
Rrezeth, Gorn Tactical, primary alt
Nari, Orion Science, secondary alt
Keep in mind that these guys are probably mostly used to faceroll PvE missions only and not games where you need some form of team concept to win.
I always draw aggro and heal, extend the escorts when I'm a cruiser healer. It should be obvious what roles you should taken based on the ship you run. They probably have a very dumb PvE build as well.
It should. That's how it normally is in PvP and that is the gold standard for how the game should function and play optimally. By that, I mean primarily a healer.
If you want to do burst damage, use an escort.
If the cruisers are not giving more up time to the DPS classes, then they have no purpose. DPS makes a combat end. Without it, you will circle all day. A cruiser either needs to draw damage away from the squishier ships or heal them when they do take damage.
I believe many PvE dedicated players are in cruisers just because they don't like for their ships to blow up. This leads to them being last to engage and save rows of shield and hull heals for in case they take some damage.
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OP, lets clear this up first>full of it if you say you can keep ag in a cruiser. only way that happens is if you've got points in threat control and/or you only play with lousy escort pilots. cruisers don't have the boff slots to accommodate enough threat gen abilities fed side for sure. oddy is the only one that comes close with the universal slots.
on to snoge00f> this ain't wow or any other mmo. roles are flexible, ships are flexible. there are no hard and fast rules nor should there be. tacs, engs, sci's can fly whatever they want however they want. boff skills and boff slots make up how you play as much as the class and the ship you chose. cruisers can tank, so can carriers. all ships can throw heals if the want, either extend shields or the others.
i have 0 points in threat control, yet all capts end up tanking around 60+% of the stf's i go into. only escorts, and good escort pilots pull ag away...and usually not for long before they have to get out of range to heal or get blown up. my kling sci alone tends to hold ag 80% of the stf's. so cruisers tanking happens dear OP. you're just jumping the gun, pouring in to much firepower, have points in threat control and/or don't know how to manage your own agro.
expecting a cruiser to hold ag while you throw everything at something + the replicators is a little insane. you're not doing your job if you get blown up. that simple. learn to control your threat generation. if you can't handle the heat from tanking then don't try to be a guns blazing hero.
my capts can handle the tank role, even the galor with the eng, probably the weakest tank wise of the 5 can handle sustained hate from multiple sources without screaming 'healzplz'
don't blame other players for your failings. this game is more than just charging in weapons blazing.
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I was going to say something similar to this.
My mains are Eng/Cruisers and tanks (with max threat). I never "hang back". It's my job to rattle the hornet's nest, and get in first. The only time I don't is when (usually) an escort full impulses past me into the fight.
Also OP... if you tested this in an Ody and a Bortas... do those characters have points in threat control? That's the only real way you could pull aggro reliably from Escorts, unless they are not trying to do damage. With your increased damage from tac abilities, and threat control, I could see you being able to hold threat against cruiser captains with only, say, 6pts in threat.
Just a thought.
It's me, Chrome. [Join Date: May 2009]
"Oh, I may be captain by rank... but I never wanted to be anything else but an engineer." ~Montgomery Scott~
This isn't PVP though and there is no "standard" play style in this game (one of the strengths of this game is not blindly adhering to an strict trinity standard). That might be how you prefer to play (which is fine), in which case you should try to form a premade group of like minded players if you want that kind of game experience.
My equally flippant remark is if you do not want to blow up so often fly an cruiser. Not an terribly helpful remark is it? As Happy and others have pointed out in this thread most people in PUGs do not communicate or form any kind of an plan in advance. It's completely unrealistic to expect everyone in this game to play the same way and have the same amount of game play experience.
Just trying to point out that PUGs can be an bad idea if you can't adapt to what you have to work with in the group or try to work out some kind of an plan.
I use power to weapons, sheilds and aux aswell as a red matter capacitor and the enhanced plasma manifold to keep my power levels maxed out as long as possible.
When it comes to movement speed here is a tip: swap to engine power stance and use your evasive, I guarantee you will be in the fights alot faster instead of putting around (granted there are times where thats on cooldown and I wished for the red alert to be just that much shorter)
Other then that I will put in chat what needs to be done next if i see there are those reading the chat, else I prefer to be in voice chat. i.e. in KA space at the start of the stf I state what side I will cover.
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2 Escorts often are running comms silent (they don't or can't communicate with the fleet)
3 Escorts often disregard orders/mission directives or a group organised plan
But if you don't want to get blown to skev and back Don't leave your C+C cruiser
stay with it
Escort it
Escorts in pairs can work well
(Two escorts = 1 cruiser in survival terms)
When people are rezzing in at the start of a mission / stf /fleet action
Hold your position and cool your thrusters Until EVERYONE is active
Comm everyone "Hi" or "Anyone have a plan" works well
Do not END RUN the sats in mirror universe
Do not Start blowing away targets when only one person has rezzed in
and do not use the phrase "Loser go tank for me " or you WILL die
and Frankly if you don't want to be the man on point and the first to draw fire
Don't fly an escort
This is what I experience, it's like the anakin, obi vs dooku fight in aotc when anakin rushes in and promptly gets sizzled.
As a cruiser captain, i like to get stuck into the battle, drawing aggro to give a damaged player a break from a pounding. I personally don?t keep Heals to myself, i heal others whenever the abilities are recharged and when needed . . if i have to heal myself . . i actively look around to see if i can share the heal . . since i'll be using it anyway on myself.
This thread would explain to me why i got a private message after an STF last night, saying "It was nice to play with someone who heals all the time" I thought nothing off it . . and wasn't too sure what he meant, since i thought most people would help their team mates out . . . but perhaps not . . i thought he's just been unlucky in PUGS.
Despite this I still got the same impression as the OP. So once I decided not to move and see what happened . . . . .
Nobody moved. . . for a good 30s, until I thought sod this and closed in.
Chain of command
Carrier
Science cruiser
Cruiser
lock box weirdness
Escorts
Shuttles
That's partially correct.
For one thing, getting close to things like cubes (above or below) means less torpedos you have to eat.
Another is that distance plays some factor in threat determination. A Cruiser will have an easier time holding aggro the closer they are to a target.
Lastly, while the drop off in damage for beam arrays is not as sharp as it is for Cannons - there is still drop off.
1km will be the range you will see the maximum effect for beam arrays.
http://theenginescannaetakeit.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/dps-range-comparison-graph.jpg
As a cruiser, it's out job to tank, heal, and deal sustained damage. If the escorts would stay with us, we could do our job better. :biggrin:
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