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Are lockboxes really that bad?
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Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
I know I'm going to get HEAPS of negative feedback for this, but after following the "lockboxes are the spawn of the devil" ideology for a good few months, I've finally come to the realisation that they're not as evil as people make them out to be. Yes, they need tweaking, but no, they shouldn't be removed.
STO is free to play now, making the game more accessible to people who a) want to try before they buy, b) can't afford the costs, c) don't feel that the extra benefits are worth the cost and d)-z) I can't think of every reason. This has removed a major source of income for the game, and nothing in this world is free. Lockboxes are, quite simply, a revenue stream. If this revenue stream helps keep the game we love going, then you have to admit they can't be too bad.
A lot of people want the option to be able to turn lockboxes off, so they don't "see" them. Can you turn off the advertisements on the side of Facebook? No, because that advertising pays for Facebook to be free. Lockboxes are, in a way, in game advertising. Turning them off would be a bad business decision.
People disagree with the seemingly high cost with no guarantee of a D'Kora. Lockboxes give us a choice. As consumers we can choose to spend or not spend. If you choose not to spend then you have to respect the choices and decisions of those that do. Remember, it's their spending that's helping to keep the game alive!
Yes, we know that the game does need a few improvements. It needs content, mechanics and fee structure improvements. To this I say what game out there is completely perfect, and at least the Cryptic/PWE recognise that improvements are needed and are working to make these improvements.
Reading the forums, I see people figuring out ways to obtain stuff by using dilithium and or the exchange. If Cryptic/PWE were really that bad they would have placed a block on this forcing you to use lockboxes. If you don't want to buy keys, read up on these methods. I use them to make money to buy stuff on the exchange.
Have I opened lockboxes? Yes. I wanted a D'Kora and set out to get one. It took me 160 keys, but I got one and 1100 lobi, more than enough to get the D'Kora space set. (I was lucky to get 7 lots of 100 lobi.) I love flying it, too. That brings me to another point. Some content SHOULD be a little more exclusive. If every third person was flying a D'Kora they would lose some of their appeal. Think of them as the big, fat, orange Ferrari of the sky.
Not everything is roses, however, and I do think the system can be improved. Firstly, get rid of tiered lockboxes. I have only found one rare lockbox and it contained one measly lobi and some dual systems consumables. One class of lockbox, one set of odds for the prizes. That way people don't feel ripped off by crappy content in the rare lockboxes.
Now, as I said at the beginning, I can see that I'm going to get hammered in the replies but can people who reply please keep it constructive? I don't profess to be right, I just offer a thoughtfully considered opinion. And no, I don't work for Cryptic/PWE.
STO is free to play now, making the game more accessible to people who a) want to try before they buy, b) can't afford the costs, c) don't feel that the extra benefits are worth the cost and d)-z) I can't think of every reason. This has removed a major source of income for the game, and nothing in this world is free. Lockboxes are, quite simply, a revenue stream. If this revenue stream helps keep the game we love going, then you have to admit they can't be too bad.
A lot of people want the option to be able to turn lockboxes off, so they don't "see" them. Can you turn off the advertisements on the side of Facebook? No, because that advertising pays for Facebook to be free. Lockboxes are, in a way, in game advertising. Turning them off would be a bad business decision.
People disagree with the seemingly high cost with no guarantee of a D'Kora. Lockboxes give us a choice. As consumers we can choose to spend or not spend. If you choose not to spend then you have to respect the choices and decisions of those that do. Remember, it's their spending that's helping to keep the game alive!
Yes, we know that the game does need a few improvements. It needs content, mechanics and fee structure improvements. To this I say what game out there is completely perfect, and at least the Cryptic/PWE recognise that improvements are needed and are working to make these improvements.
Reading the forums, I see people figuring out ways to obtain stuff by using dilithium and or the exchange. If Cryptic/PWE were really that bad they would have placed a block on this forcing you to use lockboxes. If you don't want to buy keys, read up on these methods. I use them to make money to buy stuff on the exchange.
Have I opened lockboxes? Yes. I wanted a D'Kora and set out to get one. It took me 160 keys, but I got one and 1100 lobi, more than enough to get the D'Kora space set. (I was lucky to get 7 lots of 100 lobi.) I love flying it, too. That brings me to another point. Some content SHOULD be a little more exclusive. If every third person was flying a D'Kora they would lose some of their appeal. Think of them as the big, fat, orange Ferrari of the sky.
Not everything is roses, however, and I do think the system can be improved. Firstly, get rid of tiered lockboxes. I have only found one rare lockbox and it contained one measly lobi and some dual systems consumables. One class of lockbox, one set of odds for the prizes. That way people don't feel ripped off by crappy content in the rare lockboxes.
Now, as I said at the beginning, I can see that I'm going to get hammered in the replies but can people who reply please keep it constructive? I don't profess to be right, I just offer a thoughtfully considered opinion. And no, I don't work for Cryptic/PWE.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Let people buy keys with ECs, GPL or even dil (unlike C's these currencies can at least all be earned in-game), or better yet offer them as mission rewards, and a huge part of the problem with lockboxes goes away.
This. They keep nickel and diming people to death, and people will just leave. It's kinda like getting taxed out the wazoo by our respective governments (federal, state, local).
"Are lockboxes really that bad?"
yes.
Actually for me it IS the boxes... If it is one, or one million doesn't matter to me.
Games of chance where the odd's of winning are not disclosed is a scam to me. Since every box represents a game of chance without disclosed odds, every box is a scam to me.
For the boxes to become even remotely acceptable to me, the info has to have the statistical probability of the chance of each drop, and they have to be verified by a independent source (which means not Cryptic or PWE).
Let's take the lotto. I play that... It's a game of chance. Here you need to hit 7 numbers and there are 42 possible numbers I think...
Now... It's the same thing right? Of cause it is... Slim chance of hitting the jackpot, and so on... You know what the difference is?
They release the odds, and I can check those odds myself simply by doing the math. (Since I don't have access to the source code, I obviously can't do the math of the boxes, that's why the independent source is needed).
I find the boxes and the concept behind them disgusting. And the fact that it is in a Trek game, by developers that I heavily supported from day one embarrasses me.
Some very excellent points being brought up here. I do agree about the publishing of probability. I think that that would probably raise the amount of keys people buy, even if the chance for the D'Kora and shuttle are insanely low. After all, using the example you gave, anazonda, the lottery pblished their odds and people still play despite the extraordinarily low chances of winning!! Maybe a post where people publish the amount of keys they used? I used 158 before I scored. And it was on a green lockbox.
I like the idea of keys being given as mission prizes. A really good idea, although they'd need to limit how many can be earned for the lockbox income system to remain viable. Remember that you can buy keys in the exchange as people do buy them in C-store and sell them. Using dilithium to buy them is an interesting thought. Again, there would probably need to be some sort of balance measure. That or provide a way to buy lobi with dilithium instead.
At the end of the day, even if keys are released in other ways, I'm betting that the majority of keys are going to be bought via the C-store. Again, I have no problem with this as businesses do need income streams, but as long as Cryptic/PWE does ensure that the system is continually being evaluated and improved where necessary then we should understand that they're contributing to the cost of the game now that it's F2P.
Any Cryptic/PWE people reading this? As long as we're keeping it constructive is there a chance that you might provide some thoughts on this topic, too?
(As an aside, if you do have 200 lobi spare, check out the concentrated tachyon mines. Very low damage, but their shield stripping is unbelievable. I haven't take the D'Kora up to elite STF yet, but in regular STF a Negh'Var flew in to my dispersion pattern alpha II mines and all of its shields on each and every side were stripped away. Awesome.)
The problem, sadly, seems to be Perfectworld, they don't seem to care what they're doing to the IP, which I find quite disturbing, especially considering CBS are apparently ignoring or supporting them, plus licensing them the IP
(Combined with the EMP burst on the Battle Module 3000, most foed don't last too long.)
The Lockboxes do have some POSITIVE aspects:
1)They keep certain ships "rare": It wouldn't be respectful to the IP to just let anyone buy a Jemhadar, Galor, or DKora. These ships need to be the rare, exception to the rule, for starfleet and KDF captains. Of course, it should be noted that the same thing could be accomplished by AUCTIONING a finite number of ships EBAY style....
2) They are optional.
3) They provide, apparently quite lucrative, amounts of revenue to support the game.
There are some major negative that have been discussed ad nauseum. I think a little bit of tweaking would make most people happier:
1) Reduce the drop-rate substantially (its not like its hard to find boxes to open, the keys are the gate, reduce box drop rate by AT LEAST 50%.
2) Publish the odds of winning the "grand prize". If you publish the statistics, you can't be accused of being dishonest or underhanded.
3) Give them a nominal value, say 1,000 EC, so they aren't a TOTAL waste and nuisance to people who don't want to open them.
4) Stop delaying the oft-promised introductions to a worthwhile GPL store. The GPL store has been repeatedly promised and GPL was meant to be the currency for 'cosmetic' items. I think it really annoyed people that 'cosmetic items' particularly long-overdue KDF clothing options were instead sent to the LOBI store. There has been a mea culpa of sorts for this, but I think there needs to be real attempt to rectify it. GPL is pretty worthless right now. Thats not right.
5) Allow for Lockboxes to be disabled entirely, (this might be a good feature to have in the back pocket anyway in case certain countries make them illegal.) This would allow parents to disable the boxes for minors, and for people with a gambling addiction (a recognized psychological disorder) to continue to play the game without these temptations.
DISTURB MY GAMEPLAY
to see a window POP UP in the middle of a screen and being unable to do ANYTHING till i click on it is certainly DEADLY in PVP.
They are too big and there is too much of them.
I don't mine that the lock boxes are in game for those that don't mind paying $200+ for items, but I do mind that they are in my game play especially on ground combat the boxes seem to drop into my line of fire and I either need to move my toon or pick up the box.
Also what bugs me is that we can't get Antiproton Split Beam Rifle Mk XII [Borg] or other items, but we can buy lock boxes from the STF Vendor. Cryptic is more interested in making sure lock boxes are everywhere then giving people what they want.
This MMO has so much potential, but Cryptic is more concerned about making money by putting the lock boxes everywhere. If people believe that a user in zone chat is spam that user could be reported and be silenced for 24 hours, well Cryptic in spamming my game play with their lock box ads so why can't I report them as the same.
If Cryptic (Perfect World) has to put lock boxes in game I can understand why, but at least give people items they have been crying for all over the forums for months as well, isn't that what these lock boxes are funding anyways?
That is hardly a comfort.
It takes 100 C-Points to buy one Master Key. The current exchange rate for Dilithium is hovering around 305 - 315 dilithium per C-Point. So if you take an average of 310 dilithium per C-Point, that works out to 31,000 dilithium to by only one Master Key. Given a max refining capacity of 8,000 dilithium per day, that means it will take you almost 4 days to refine enough dilithium to get just one key.
Of course, if you wanted to be frugal, you could get the 10 pack of Master Keys. That would only cost you 900 C-Points instead of the 1,000 you would spend by buying keys individually. That would, of course, convert to 279,000 dilithium, which would only take you a mere 35 days to refine. Let us be generous and say it takes a half hour a day to gather enough dilithium to be able to refine 8,000, that is still over 17 hours of work to get just ten Master Keys. Given that 500 C-points can be purchased for $6.25, that means that even a person making minimum wage (currently, $7.25 per hour) can earn enough to get 10 Master Keys in significantly less than 2 hours on the job. That is hardly balanced.
Even so, the chances of getting the ship with a mere 10 keys is ridiculously slim, and you can easily get 25 Lock Boxes (usually more) in a single session of play. That means you will have 875 boxes by the time you earn only 10 keys to open them in that same time frame.
Yes, you can get Master Keys by buying C-Points with Dilithium. Given the exchange rate and the number of boxes you get, that is hardly a valid point.
It would also be REALLY nice if they would give us the option to NOT get boxes. Like a "TUrn off Lock boxes" option for STF's at least.
And yes, what ****es people off the most is all of the work goes into these boxes.
THese things are little more than a distraction from the lack of content int he game.
QFE
Aye, I don't have a problem with boxes, if people want to spend money to open them, ok, let 'em. But Ya can't do a single PVE or PVP without getting spammed with this stuff.
And the second thing is, if you want keep some ships rare, OK, I want a Ferengi ship badly, but I can life without it. But putting the Ferengi clothes in these boxes is just evil. We have plenty of uniforms, but not enough casual wear. And no, it is not evil enough so I would buy another master key. Keep your stuff if you don't want to sell it.
This !!!!!
I really don't care about lockboxes in the slightest, i have horrible luck in real life and won't entertain companys on a game of chance... i really dispise the shear amount of lockboxes that drop, i find it disruptive and annoying and every time i see one of them it pushes me away from the will to even spend money on this game !
A) You want to call them advertising that supports the game. Fine, but if I am a Gold Member and ALREADY supporting the game then why do 'I' have to be advertised to? I am ALREADY supporting the game.
C) They frequently contain a lot of items that are hardly able to be resold and not worth over a buck of real money to have opened it.
D) Do NOT even begin to make the argument that you can buy them without spending real money because rather you paid it or not SOMEONE was ABSOLUTELY REQUIRED to have spent the money in order for you to have opened the box or obtained the items. So yes, there is REAL money involved without question.
Now so far these "Exclusive" ships, which are not very exclusive seems how I see them ALL THE TIME, are not very impressive to anyone who really looks at the numbers. (Besides the Bug...) That is fine but if some day these exclusive ships also become "I Win" buttons then we have a big problem. Pay to Win on a whole different level.
One last note... Do not be surprised if it does feel like owning a Ferrari... Like how you cannot take it anywhere because people will ultimately TRIBBLE it up. I know I conveniently fail to support folks in Galors and Dekoras in STF's and target them in PvP and I am not alone lol. So far I have only seen one competent pilot of them in STF's and none in PvP (though it can be hard to tell seems how it is rare to see them there and with everyone picking on them they do not get much of a chance).
The issue is they drop too comonly (last night, during an Elite Space STF, we got 56 lockboxes.
Second issue is the price of the master keys. 100 CP each (or 90 CP if you take the 10 MK bundle). If you compare with CP prices on the Dilithium Exchange, you realize griding for Dilithium in order to buy MK isn't viable.
I opened like 30 or 50 boxes, but now I simply don't pick them up anymore.
I think going F2P and getting in return lockboxes was one of the biggest mistakes made.
Though it's not technicaly F2P, it's more P2W.
but if people actually DO get the ships, how can that be a scam? I haven't gotten a D'Kora, but I did get a Galor. So, I really don't see how it's a "scam". Like the original poster said, Cryptic needs to make money somehow.
Lockboxes as loot spam during an STF = HATE.
100cp for a key = LOLWUT?
They should be 10cp or less -- comparing the pricing to actual Useful and Known things in the C-Store.
1. 'cryptic has to make money' is not a valid excuse for anything. There are right ways and wrong ways to make money
2. The odds are not disclosed, but we do know they are set so low as to have no reasonable chance of getting the ship. Both of those are indicative of a scam. Not disclosing the odds is also illegal by the way. Prove the entire setup isn't rigged to begin with.
Thats blatantly untrue and insulting
Then you haven't been paying attention or you are unaware that they are not legal in the manner they are being implemented, or you are trying to make excuses for cryptic
Thats absurdly faulty logic. First, where exactly is this 'revenue stream' going? Not here. Second, 'it makes money' is not a valid reason to do anything, you could use that excuse to sell anything from packs of ramen to crack as a revenue source. That doesn't make all of those potential sources ok. There is nothing good about them
1. They are not advertising and even if they were, good advertising is advertising that doesn't anger your customers and doesn't get investigated by the DA, nor that violates state law
2. Facebook is currently the largest scam on the planet. its only a matter of time before they go to far and get sued into oblivion. comparing this to facebook doesn't help your argument
If there is no guarantee that if you spend enough you'll sooner or later get it, it is, by definition a scam. People have spent upwards of a a thousand dollars on those things and not gotten a ship. When others claim to get it in a handful of attempts. Theres something very suspicious about that
I see no proof of that whatsoever. None. They sure aren't cranking out all kinds of content with their supposed large profits. No, they put out a tiny bit and time gate it
Says the guy who has one.
Yeah, sure. Better get rid of all the other ships in the game then, and all the cstore ships as well. Don't want too many people flying them either.
Stop making excuses for cryptic
I won't spend any real money on them though. I've voiced my opinion on that previously. For a company that made a net profit of 80 million US last quarter, you would think that they could throw a couple (dozen) more customer support reps into the staff.