yeah, i use that setup too. works best for me (and you apparently, and many other people i know)
the random heals always trigger when needed, atleast so it seems.
best dps set for space right now is the KHG set 2 piece, period! 25% more torpedo dmg just bombs the hell out of every target. and the additional aux energy you get from only 2 pieces is incredible.
I have read this thread 3 times. I have trouble with the idea of breaking up sets, but that seems to be the thing to do. Does this borg / maco set up work as well with all types of ships?
I have read this thread 3 times. I have trouble with the idea of breaking up sets, but that seems to be the thing to do. Does this borg / maco set up work as well with all types of ships?
basically yes. i guess you could go 2 piece omega if you skilled the science ability that buffs tetryon glider (can't remember the name) but then you need to be carefull what you combine. omega works best engine, shield. Maco works best defelector shield. But 3 borg+ maco shield is kind of the "can't go wrong" option no matter what ship.
KHG i my opinion is worth without even thinking taking 2 pieces, but only for people with torpedo launchers. But the energy boni u get+ the engine itself has 3.8 energie to 3 subsystems, is really a nobrainer. 11.9 to aux imagine that!
I have read this thread 3 times. I have trouble with the idea of breaking up sets, but that seems to be the thing to do. Does this borg / maco set up work as well with all types of ships?
3P Borg + MACO/KHG Shield is a Survival set. I run it on the Garumba (Fleet Escort with a Party trick) and I can practically tank in that thing.
2P Borg + 2P MACO (Shields/Deflector) isn't bad for a DPS cruiser as it's 2P decreases the recharge time of your BOFF abilities by 5%
2P Omega + MACO/KHG Shield is Flow Capacitor DPS/Survival. Although you should have the Borg Console in there somewhere.
3P Omega is a very good DPS set, because the Omega Shields are good, and it has one of the better set bonuses. -50% Defense on a 2 minute cooldown to your target and they can't turn. The entire team Benefits from this.
4P Borg your probably better off getting the Jem'Hadar set.
Its been a longer standing belief of mine that the tank ship acutally needs regeneration. And to this point the Aegis shield is acutally the worst thing such a ship, meant to tank and take all sorts of damage, just doesnt work out. The Omega and Borg set work really well when you use their high regeneration with a field generator or two to make your shield capacity even higher.
the Maco is actually a Resilient shield and makes up for the losses with bonuses to things like the EPS skill which regenerates power levels faster. This actually means a higher overall DPS when your power levels don't drop down so low. And so the Maco works very well with Escort class vessels. Even though you basically want to be doing hit in run in escorts, a field generator will fix the low shield capacity.
The Omega set specifically helps ships turn faster and do shield penetration. This works well on ships assigned to guard duties and tank vessels. It is regenerative so keeping the shields up is actually only a mater of properly balancing your shields like you should on any ship anyways. Again the use of a Field generator for more maximum shield capacity helps out alot here.
Aegis set is one I practically avoid flat out. But thats because its a Covarient shield. Now to say that it is junk, would not be correct. Its specifically designed so you can perform a solo hit and run and still have just enough hitpoints left in your shields (with redistribution of your shields) to actually pull off the hit and run.
Not much else can be really said about Aegis other then the fact its craftable and anyone in a fleet can get one relatively easy.
Borg set is a Regenerative set that gives bonus to power levels. Not everyone seems to realize that more power means more damage, more speed, more manuverablity... and basically just more survivability. Just because its a 'retro' set, do not dismiss it so easily. If your group properly sets up their ships so that you have atleast a support craft and a tank. Any ship desiring higher dps outputs can load up on this set. This borg set comes with its own tractor beam as well that also saps power from your enemies.
Science vessels that get put into support roles do some pretty good things with this borg set on them.
You might want to ask some questions here. So I'll summarize a little anyways.
Threat control is for your tank cruiser. It should NEVER be on an ESCORT. (see this alot)
Support ships have Extend Shields and things like Hazard Emitters. You use these on OTHERS.
Tank ships have Threat Control, and matching energy weapon types to get more dps out of matching tactical console upgrades to that energy weapon types.
Area Control science vessels have Gravity well only for the hold, not the damage. (yes MVAM can)
Escorts literally have paper thin armor reguardless of how hard you try to armor it up. If you put a tactical in it, I'm not to blame for you stealing your tanks aggro. Back off and let them do their job a little.
Oh and the Cruiser guys. Beam Fire at Will and torpedo spread sound silly but when your a huge hulk of a ship, put it to use. Its fun to decimate 6 targets at once, especially if your friend has a gravity well.
** This is just Basic info I've had to drill into some of my fleets heads and they just kept exploding non-stop. Now.. we never really even fail these stfs or explode anymore..
** Oh and Skills are very important, having them in things you don't need hurts you. Ask someone you can trust for a have decent skill point build.
Personally I do pretty well with the Borg set. Not big on the Breen. The Jem'Hadar set seems to work well. I had a hard time getting that one, but finally figured out how to get all those sensors.
I have not had the time to try any "mix" of sets yet, but you all have gave me some good ideas.
Its been a longer standing belief of mine that the tank ship acutally needs regeneration. And to this point the Aegis shield is acutally the worst thing such a ship, meant to tank and take all sorts of damage, just doesnt work out.
The difference is that Aegis requires BOFFs to provide it, rather than it being intrinsic. Now, the shield performance, etc, provides a little bonus resistance/regen, but not enough. But, if you had a cruiser with a pair of Emergency Power to Shields and a Reverse Polarity then the Aegis shield would be fine.
A full aegis set would actually give a cruiser decent defense value (fewer hits on the shield/hull) and a fair amount of extra hull resistance so that the regen isn't as neccessary.
That isn't to say that Aegis isn't weaker than Maco/Omega/Borg. It is. The Reactive Armor should probably apply a resistance effect to the shields too.
3P Borg + MACO/KHG Shield is a Survival set. I run it on the Garumba (Fleet Escort with a Party trick) and I can practically tank in that thing.
I've tested 3P Borg + Omega Shield, and it has more sustained staying power than MACO on my escort in elite STF's. The high shield regen rates make a huge difference, especially now that escalating respawn times are part of the game.
2P Borg + 2P MACO (Shields/Deflector) isn't bad for a DPS cruiser as it's 2P decreases the recharge time of your BOFF abilities by 5%
I still don't know if the 5% recharge rate refers to ship subsystem energy or BO abilities, but I'll test it out when I get home. I should see a 1 sec improvement per 20 sec. ability cooldown time if the above is true. If someone else can run the test before 8 hours from now, I will be most grateful
2P Omega + MACO/KHG Shield is Flow Capacitor DPS/Survival. Although you should have the Borg Console in there somewhere.
Going 2P Borg + 2P Omega seems to provide better protection with the hull regen procs in elite STF's, but this also depends on what specific pieces are brought. The Omega Shield gives me better sustained combat staying power on my escort that either MACO or KHG, but I can test this again later.
3P Omega is a very good DPS set, because the Omega Shields are good, and it has one of the better set bonuses. -50% Defense on a 2 minute cooldown to your target and they can't turn. The entire team Benefits from this.
I found the 3set Omega bonus Gravitic Anchor to be somewhat underwhelming in elite STF's, but it probably does better in PVP. Does AP-Omega break Gravitic Anchor?
4P Borg your probably better off getting the Jem'Hadar set.
I don't have much info on the Aegis.
The Jem Haddar shield has pretty low capacity at only 4.5k shields and 150 recharge rate (escort stats). The borg shield is similar but has over 246 recharge rate. Unless you're running a Galor or Jem'Haddar bug ship, the Borg set auto-regen procs will provide far better set bonuses.
According to a Dev post regarding the MACO set when it first came out, the 2-piece set bonus is supposed to reduce cooldowns on all Bridge Officer abilities by 5%. I don't yet have a matching deflector for my shield, so I can't test it directly though.
I thought that "power recharge speed" referred to ship system energy levels since the text description did not mention any bridge officer abilities. Compare this to the DOFF "Horatio," which specifically mentions "Bridge Officer power recharges reduced by 10%" in http://www.stowiki.org/Horatio
Any Devs reading this available to clarify?
I've tested this personally.
MACO 2 piece does in fact reduce BOFF cooldowns by 5%.
The problem is that 5% is kind of irrelevant, and there are not many other global rech reductions bonuses like this to stack with.
It might be useful for some niche builds, but a power with a global cooldown of 30s shaves off 1.5s and a power with a global cooldown of say 120s shaves off 6s.
The one power it could have potential with, Tac Initiative, already reduces cooldowns so low as to hit the GCD on most powers (like TT, CRF, etc).
I suppose an MVAE could have a copy of Photonic Officer 2, but I really doubt anyone is going to use the Lt Comm Slot for that.
I've tested 3P Borg + 3P Omega, and it has more sustained staying power than MACO on my escort in elite STF's. The high shield regen rates make a huge difference, especially now that escalating respawn times are part of the game.
This is highly dependent on the Escort your flying and the profession of your captain.
I could see this potentially being useful in your MVAE with only 2 Eng BOFF powers (and probably EPTSx2) but I think a Fleet Escort with RSP 1 would get more mileage out of MACO's reduced bleedthrough and RSPs ability to pretty much refill all of your shield facings vs. a Tac Cube.
My Eng in Defiant just runs 3 piece Omega, because to be honest even using MK X and being recklessly aggressive, I can basically tank for teams without much fear in an Escort like this. Only the one-shots really take me out.
My Tac in JHAS on the other hand has the exact opposite experience from yours.
I've found much better results with MK XI MACO over MK XI Omega Shields.
He currently runs MACO shield, Omega Eng and Deflector and Borg Console with no borg bonus. It's extremely survivable, but I put a lot of faith in my extra hull with 2x Neutroniums and 2x Blue Hazard Duty DOFFs.
In this way, I can cut down on actual hull damage through active resistances and MACOs better bleedthrough protection. It means I don't need to rely on a random heal proc. MACO shield + 3P Borg would be even better, but I'm not giving up Tet Glider for those random procs.
I found the 3set Omega bonus Gravitic Anchor to be somewhat underwhelming in elite STF's, but it probably does better in PVP. Does AP-Omega break Gravitic Anchor?
I've found it useful on my Eng in Defiant, as he needs every possible offensive tool he can get - but I dropped it on my Tac in JHAS as I found the Omega shield just didnt provide as much protection as the MACO did.
MACO 2 piece does in fact reduce BOFF cooldowns by 5%.
The problem is that 5% is kind of irrelevant, and there are not many other global rech reductions bonuses like this to stack with.
It might be useful for some niche builds, but a power with a global cooldown of 30s shaves off 1.5s and a power with a global cooldown of say 120s shaves off 6s.
The one power it could have potential with, Tac Initiative, already reduces cooldowns so low as to hit the GCD on most powers (like TT, CRF, etc).
I suppose an MVAE could have a copy of Photonic Officer 2, but I really doubt anyone is going to use the Lt Comm Slot for that.
Thanks for clarifying the above. I do agree that 5% cooldown reduction doesn't add up to much compared to set bonuses like the 2-Omega set -37 shield drain effect.
This is highly dependent on the Escort your flying and the profession of your captain.
I could see this potentially being useful in your MVAE with only 2 Eng BOFF powers (and probably EPTSx2) but I think a Fleet Escort with RSP 1 would get more mileage out of MACO's reduced bleedthrough and RSPs ability to pretty much refill all of your shield facings vs. a Tac Cube.
My Eng in Defiant just runs 3 piece Omega, because to be honest even using MK X and being recklessly aggressive, I can basically tank for teams without much fear in an Escort like this. Only the one-shots really take me out.
Tachyon Beam shield drains run rampant in Elite STF's. Once a player's shield drops to low levels, Borg start lobbing mass torpedo volleys that score full damage vs. player shields (no kinetic damage reduction). This makes MACO shields + RSP a liability simply because the latter combo relies heavily on incoming weapon fire that may be replaced by borg hax torpedoes instead, not to mention RSP's long 2 minute cooldown times. When I tested the MACO XI shields with 3 Borg pieces two nights ago, my advanced escort died more often than normal. Once I rotated Omega XI shields back into the mix, survival became much easier.
My Tac in JHAS on the other hand has the exact opposite experience from yours.
I've found much better results with MK XI MACO over MK XI Omega Shields.
He currently runs MACO shield, Omega Eng and Deflector and Borg Console with no borg bonus. It's extremely survivable, but I put a lot of faith in my extra hull with 2x Neutroniums and 2x Blue Hazard Duty DOFFs.
In this way, I can cut down on actual hull damage through active resistances and MACOs better bleedthrough protection. It means I don't need to rely on a random heal proc. MACO shield + 3P Borg would be even better, but I'm not giving up Tet Glider for those random procs.
I normally use Omega Shields + Omega Engines + Borg Deflector + Borg Console on my advanced escort, thereby allowing me to retain both Tetryon Glider and the Borg hull heal proc. When I need more defense, I normally replace the Omega XI engine with a Borg Engine, thereby giving me shields with the highest base regen rate and shield + hull regen procs to boot. All my DOFF's are offense-based, and the only defensive consoles I run are Antimatter Spread and Theta Radiation Vents.
MACO's biggest pitfall is its low recharge speeds with only slightly more shield protection vs. Omega by around +300. Its greatest assets are its intrinsic base resists and extra power-system procs, but these do not allow ship to weather more than a few bigs hits, or a bunch of little hits, until all shields are gone.
I've found it useful on my Eng in Defiant, as he needs every possible offensive tool he can get - but I dropped it on my Tac in JHAS as I found the Omega shield just didnt provide as much protection as the MACO did.
Can you confirm if AP-Omega breaks Gravitic Anchor or not? I find that its 10 second duration is meh, but if AP-Omega breaks it, then that's a big PVP liability vs. escort players.
Tachyon Beam shield drains run rampant in Elite STF's. Once a player's shield drops to low levels, Borg start lobbing mass torpedo volleys that score full damage vs. player shields (no kinetic damage reduction). This makes MACO shields + RSP a liability simply because the latter combo relies heavily on incoming weapon fire that may be replaced by borg hax torpedoes instead, not to mention RSP's long 2 minute cooldown times. When I tested the MACO XI shields with 3 Borg pieces two nights ago, my advanced escort died more often than normal. Once I rotated Omega XI shields back into the mix, survival became much easier.
*I think* (I'm not 100% certain) that I have not really suffered much vs. Tachyon Shield Drains since I slotted Power Insulators ages ago. I certainly haven't had my shields simply disappear like they used to, or at least it feels like they don't.
Generally RSP is my go to emergency shield heal that I use when EPTS & TSS are still on cooldown. I cant really think of a situation where having it would be more of a liability than not having it.
There's nothing about Omega that protects it from the hax torpedos either.
I normally use Omega Shields + Omega Engines + Borg Deflector + Borg Console on my advanced escort, thereby allowing me to retain both Tetryon Glider and the Borg hull heal proc. When I need more defense, I normally replace the Omega XI engine with a Borg Engine, thereby giving me shields with the highest base regen rate and shield + hull regen procs to boot. All my DOFF's are offense-based, and the only defensive consoles I run are Antimatter Spread and Theta Radiation Vents.
MACO's biggest pitfall is its low recharge speeds with only slightly more shield protection vs. Omega by around +300. Its greatest assets are its intrinsic base resists and extra power-system procs, but these do not allow ship to weather more than a few bigs hits, or a bunch of little hits, until all shields are gone.
On my JHAS with 1 Field Generator I have the following numbers (using MK XI, because I only have MK XII Maco but I have MK XI both to compare evenly)
MACO MK XI Slotted = 8,771 Shields
Omega MK XI Slotted = 8,309 Shields
So to start, that's a 560 shield capacity difference.
But there's more than that effectively.
MACO also resists an extra 10% all Energy damage, which stacks with the 20% resistance to plasma. The plasma resist is a wash, but 10% extra resistance is basically 10% extra shields.
So now effective totals look like this:
MACO MK XI Effective = 9,648
Omega MK XI Effective = 8,309
That's 1,300 difference in shield capacity, per facing. Let's ignore the ability to redistribute for the sake of this argument, though it does mean an extra 5,200 effective shields if you can maintain constant shield redistribution.
Let's look at the regen (and no idea if or how this gets modified, so bear with me. I wish it was visible in the UI but it isn't).
MACO MK XI Regen = 152 /6s
Omega MK XI Regen = 221 /6s
So that's an advantage of 69 extra shield points regenerated every 6s.
1,300 / 69 = 18.85, let's round down to 18 "ticks" of regeneration.
It would take, 18 ticks of regeneration for the Omega regen advantage to equal the MACO extra shield and resists advantage.
18 ticks, at 6s per tick should be 108s or 1 min 48s. This is just breaking even btw, it would take longer to overtake MACO which assumes you are in a situation where you no chance to use any shield heals - which is not a situation you encounter on STFs.
A lot can happen in 1 min 48s, which is incidentally only 12s shorter than the cooldown of RSP 1.
Let's say I'm totally wrong about how MACO resistances work, maybe it's multiplicative (very possible) and I totally goofed.
You're still looking at 20% vs. 28%, or an extra 8% above what Omega gives.
Even if we forget about the extra resistances completely, 560 (in my example anyway) extra shields is still (560 / 69 = 8.11) 8 full ticks, or 48 seconds worth of ticks to reach a break even point with MACO.
This also leaves out Power Conduit Link, which I think stacks up to around +10 power.
+10 power that, unless you are running 125 Shields power (not really common on an escort) will further increase your shield's resistances and your shields regeneration (4% per point I believe).
There's a chance I've made some errors in some of the mechanics above, but I believe that's how the two should compare vs. one another. If anyone notices any mistakes, please correct me.
Can you confirm if AP-Omega breaks Gravitic Anchor or not? I find that its 10 second duration is meh, but if AP-Omega breaks it, then that's a big PVP liability vs. escort players.
I'm going to try to get a friend to test this with tonight and post back here, I don't know anyone who is running 3 piece Omega out of my friends and I can't shoot myself with it.
*I think* (I'm not 100% certain) that I have not really suffered much vs. Tachyon Shield Drains since I slotted Power Insulators ages ago. I certainly haven't had my shields simply disappear like they used to, or at least it feels like they don't.
Generally RSP is my go to emergency shield heal that I use when EPTS & TSS are still on cooldown. I cant really think of a situation where having it would be more of a liability than not having it.
There's nothing about Omega that protects it from the hax torpedos either.
Only present shield level is checked by Borg AI, and if shields are low, then those torps come in blazing. With Omega's high recharge rates, shield levels don't normally drop to borg torp-spam levels unless you get focus-tachyon-beamed by 3+ Borg opponents.
On my JHAS with 1 Field Generator I have the following numbers (using MK XI, because I only have MK XII Maco but I have MK XI both to compare evenly)
MACO MK XI Slotted = 8,771 Shields
Omega MK XI Slotted = 8,309 Shields
So to start, that's a 560 shield capacity difference.
But there's more than that effectively.
MACO also resists an extra 10% all Energy damage, which stacks with the 20% resistance to plasma. The plasma resist is a wash, but 10% extra resistance is basically 10% extra shields.
So now effective totals look like this:
MACO MK XI Effective = 9,648
Omega MK XI Effective = 8,309
That's 1,300 difference in shield capacity, per facing. Let's ignore the ability to redistribute for the sake of this argument, though it does mean an extra 5,200 effective shields if you can maintain constant shield redistribution.
Let's look at the regen (and no idea if or how this gets modified, so bear with me. I wish it was visible in the UI but it isn't).
MACO MK XI Regen = 152 /6s
Omega MK XI Regen = 221 /6s
So that's an advantage of 69 extra shield points regenerated every 6s.
1,300 / 69 = 18.85, let's round down to 18 "ticks" of regeneration.
It would take, 18 ticks of regeneration for the Omega regen advantage to equal the MACO extra shield and resists advantage.
18 ticks, at 6s per tick should be 108s or 1 min 48s. This is just breaking even btw, it would take longer to overtake MACO which assumes you are in a situation where you no chance to use any shield heals - which is not a situation you encounter on STFs.
A lot can happen in 1 min 48s, which is incidentally only 12s shorter than the cooldown of RSP 1.
Let's say I'm totally wrong about how MACO resistances work, maybe it's multiplicative (very possible) and I totally goofed.
You're still looking at 20% vs. 28%, or an extra 8% above what Omega gives.
Even if we forget about the extra resistances completely, 560 (in my example anyway) extra shields is still (560 / 69 = 8.11) 8 full ticks, or 48 seconds worth of ticks to reach a break even point with MACO.
The above only assumes base shield regen rates. Omega's numbers rise dramatically with EPtS, which I run two of for non-stop enhanced recharge rotation. Against borg torpedoes, MACO only gains a 5% damage resistance bonus -- all other damage mitigation is ignored since borg hax torps are kinetic based. This is probably why I can run zero defense DOFF's and ship hull armors, yet survive with only zero to 2 deaths per match when I'm careless. Lastly, with tactical team up, 4 x 221 = 884, yielding effective shield regeneration rate of 147 / second. Compare this to 101 / second for MACO, and you see a near-50% shield recovery advantage in favor of Omega. Yes, MACO will repel single big hits better, but most elite STF's deal with lots of little damage from multiple sources as opposed to big hits, and the latter can be avoided just by flying directly above / below tactical cubes.
This also leaves out Power Conduit Link, which I think stacks up to around +10 power.
+10 power that, unless you are running 125 Shields power (not really common on an escort) will further increase your shield's resistances and your shields regeneration (4% per point I believe).
There's a chance I've made some errors in some of the mechanics above, but I believe that's how the two should compare vs. one another. If anyone notices any mistakes, please correct me.
I'm going to try to get a friend to test this with tonight and post back here, I don't know anyone who is running 3 piece Omega out of my friends and I can't shoot myself with it.
MACO's Power Conduit proc is quite nice I do prefer it over Omega's base shield speed boost, but it doesn't seem as significant as the 2-set Tetryon Glider bonus.
I should be online tonight and will be happy to help you run tests as needed.
Only present shield level is checked by Borg AI, and if shields are low, then those torps come in blazing. With Omega's high recharge rates, shield levels don't normally drop to borg torp-spam levels unless you get focus-tachyon-beamed by 3+ Borg opponents.
I'm not sure if this is true for all borg, the Negh'var and Raptors in particular seem to spam Torps all the time.
I think you might be underestimating the MACO shields, I don't really have much issues with keeping them up outside of sudden spike damage.
I'm going to give Omega another shot though over the weekend and see which I think works better (hopefully my combat logs will help).
The above only assumes base shield regen rates. Omega's numbers rise dramatically with EPtS, which I run two of for non-stop enhanced recharge rotation.
How do you calcuate the effect of EPTS? Is it just a straight addition?
EPTS seems to muddy the waters, as you can use it in addition with MACO shields as well, unless there is something I'm missing about how shield regen values stack or get boosted.
Even with the crazy torps it's strong and in some ways stronger (unless the damage is so high it would kill pretty much anything. :rolleyes: which happens, lol)
For a 100k torpedo it would be the difference between taking 10K damage or taking 5k.
Lastly, with tactical team up, 4 x 221 = 884, yielding effective shield regeneration rate of 147 / second. Compare this to 101 / second for MACO, and you see a near-50% shield recovery advantage in favor of Omega.
Shield regen from the actual shield itself is listed in 6s ticks, so you shouldn't really be getting X amount per second.
Would you mind writing out how you came to these numbers? Because I don't believe tactical team works in the way you are saying, by taking the shields regen value and adding it per second to shields.
Yes, MACO will repel single big hits better, but most elite STF's deal with lots of little damage from multiple sources as opposed to big hits, and the latter can be avoided just by flying directly above / below tactical cubes.
Actually MACO deals with both better as it cuts all bleed through in half.
it's also the only shield with resistance to the AP cutting beam.
MACO's Power Conduit proc is quite nice I do prefer it over Omega's base shield speed boost, but it doesn't seem as significant as the 2-set Tetryon Glider bonus.
That's why I use them together
I lose the Borg hull proc, but I take less hull damage in the first place - half as much to be exact.
I'm not sure if this is true for all borg, the Negh'var and Raptors in particular seem to spam Torps all the time.
I think you might be underestimating the MACO shields, I don't really have much issues with keeping them up outside of sudden spike damage.
I'm going to give Omega another shot though over the weekend and see which I think works better (hopefully my combat logs will help).
I typically run EPtS1+2 and science team1 to maintain shields. As a result, I cannot support MACO as easily as I can Omega since I tend to stay prolonged combat. However, this also gives my build access to Tractor Beam Repulsors to help with bonus mission objectives.
How do you calcuate the effect of EPTS? Is it just a straight addition?
EPTS seems to muddy the waters, as you can use it in addition with MACO shields as well, unless there is something I'm missing about how shield regen values stack or get boosted.
Which TBH I'm not totally clear on.
EPtS adds to base recharge rates, but it adds a fixed shield heal, adds power to shield systems (thereby increasing recharge rate and damage resistance), and mitigates incoming shield damage by a fixed percentage. This is where actual performance gets difficult to measure due to multiple overlapping variables. However, since current shield power multiplies base shield regeneration rates, a bigger base shield regen level gets multiplied to a higher final total.
Even with the crazy torps it's strong and in some ways stronger (unless the damage is so high it would kill pretty much anything. :rolleyes: which happens, lol)
For a 100k torpedo it would be the difference between taking 10K damage or taking 5k.
...<SNIP>...
Actually MACO deals with both better as it cuts all bleed through in half.
it's also the only shield with resistance to the AP cutting beam.
I almost never notice the bleed-through damage due to my ship's small crew count. I'm guessing if my crew count were higher due to using a cruiser, then the crew loss would be more significant. However, given that borg torps do not seem to get any kinetic damage reduction, a 100k torp will usually kill any ship outright unless brace for impact is up.
Shield regen from the actual shield itself is listed in 6s ticks, so you shouldn't really be getting X amount per second.
Would you mind writing out how you came to these numbers? Because I don't believe tactical team works in the way you are saying, by taking the shields regen value and adding it per second to shields.
Since Tactical Team auto-distributes all shields multiple times per second, a ship's effective shield rating becomes 4 facings x shield_facing_capacity, and its total shield facings recharge rate becomes 4 x shield_recharge, but only while TT is up. Since each facing recharges once per 6 seconds, average recharge rate per second becomes (4 x shield_recharge_rate) / 6 sec. As a result, Omega Mk XI shields have (4 facings x 221 shield regen) / 6 sec = ~147 shields x facings / sec.
I lose the Borg hull proc, but I take less hull damage in the first place - half as much to be exact.
I rarely have situations where my shields were up while my ship was destroyed, and usually the latter is caused by plasma fires more often than straight bleed through damage. As a result, it's difficult for me to weigh bleed-through defense percentage importance since I never notice big hull damage mid-fight until my shields are breached. If my shields are down, that's the only time my ship takes significant damage. Otherwise Hazard Emitters 1 keeps me up without too much difficulty.
I'll give a MACO another shot again tonight to see what happens...
I typically run EPtS1+2 and science team1 to maintain shields. As a result, I cannot support MACO as easily as I can Omega since I tend to stay prolonged combat. However, this also gives my build access to Tractor Beam Repulsors to help with bonus mission objectives.
I almost never notice the bleed-through damage due to my ship's small crew count. I'm guessing if my crew count were higher due to using a cruiser, then the crew loss would be more significant. However, given that borg torps do not seem to get any kinetic damage reduction, a 100k torp will usually kill any ship outright unless brace for impact is up.
I dont worry about crew, the bleed through cuts down on damage you take direct to hull.
Since Tactical Team auto-distributes all shields multiple times per second, a ship's effective shield rating becomes 4 facings x shield_facing_capacity, and its total shield facings recharge rate becomes 4 x shield_recharge, but only while TT is up. Since each facing recharges once per 6 seconds, average recharge rate per second becomes (4 x shield_recharge_rate) / 6 sec. As a result, Omega Mk XI shields have (4 facings x 221 shield regen) / 6 sec = ~147 shields x facings / sec.
Ok, so let's look at the difference in that regen although it's not really per second even though it averages out that way.
147 vs. 101 (MACO) x facings /sec
That's 46 extra per facing (over MACO), per second but really works out to an extra 276 every 6s.
The MACO shield from my earlier example would have an effective cushion of 560 per facing, or 2,240 to the total shield pool. Then there is the, somewhat hard to quantify, extra 10% resistance to all, and approximately extra 10 shield power (which further adds to both resistance and regen)
I'm not sure how much more regen and if it is a straight 4% per point of power it would be 40%. That seems very high.
Anyway, that's an advantage of 552 extra regen in 12s for Omega vs. the 560 cushion for MACO.
The thing is, every 15s you can have both EPTS and TT 1 available, so by the time Omega has a chance to pull ahead - you've already got your shield heals ready to go.
I think at this point I'd kill to have dynamic shield resistance and regen values visible in the UI.
I've tested 3P Borg + Omega Shield, and it has more sustained staying power than MACO on my escort in elite STF's. The high shield regen rates make a huge difference, especially now that escalating respawn times are part of the game.
I would only recommend 3P Borg and MACO shields for a Cruiser. The KHG Shield I run on my Garumba is different enough to MACO to be more effective on Escorts.
I still don't know if the 5% recharge rate refers to ship subsystem energy or BO abilities, but I'll test it out when I get home. I should see a 1 sec improvement per 20 sec. ability cooldown time if the above is true. If someone else can run the test before 8 hours from now, I will be most grateful
With the right type of Conn Officer you can lower the cooldown of a single Tac Team to about 20s. This is of course far more use to a Cruiser than an Escort.
Thanks for clarifying the above. I do agree that 5% cooldown reduction doesn't add up to much compared to set bonuses like the 2-Omega set -37 shield drain effect.
The Tetryon Glider is effected by both Weapons power and Flow Capacitor Skill. I'm pumping out about 60-ish.
I dont worry about crew, the bleed through cuts down on damage you take direct to hull.
I'm running HE1, Sci-Team1, and TBR1.
Bleed-through damage percentage only matters while shields are up. Once they're down, all damage goes directly to hull. However, I have a much easier time keeping Omega shields up since I run my ship at full speed all the time, resulting in high defense ratings which leads to many enemy shots missing, thereby gaining more time to regenerate. Now that run AP-Beta3 instead of AP-Omega3, my build is a little more vulnerable to tractor beams, but these haven't been too difficult to handle.
Ok, so let's look at the difference in that regen although it's not really per second even though it averages out that way.
147 vs. 101 (MACO) x facings /sec
That's 46 extra per facing (over MACO), per second but really works out to an extra 276 every 6s.
The MACO shield from my earlier example would have an effective cushion of 560 per facing, or 2,240 to the total shield pool. Then there is the, somewhat hard to quantify, extra 10% resistance to all, and approximately extra 10 shield power (which further adds to both resistance and regen)
I'm not sure how much more regen and if it is a straight 4% per point of power it would be 40%. That seems very high.
Anyway, that's an advantage of 552 extra regen in 12s for Omega vs. the 560 cushion for MACO.
The thing is, every 15s you can have both EPTS and TT 1 available, so by the time Omega has a chance to pull ahead - you've already got your shield heals ready to go.
I think at this point I'd kill to have dynamic shield resistance and regen values visible in the UI.
True, the amount of variables does get overwhelming. I did give MACO a try again, but could not maintain it as usual in prolonged combat. Perhaps I have to change my tactics to make it work better.
How do you calcuate the effect of EPTS? Is it just a straight addition?
EPTS seems to muddy the waters, as you can use it in addition with MACO shields as well, unless there is something I'm missing about how shield regen values stack or get boosted.
Which TBH I'm not totally clear on.
I think the different shield types have different regen rates that get multiplied by the Shield Power factor, which is IN ADDITION to the regen listed on EPtS. Bumping up shield Power levels by 20 increases the natural regen rate by a certain amt. Not sure what that amt is since Cryptic doesn't list dynamic regen rates for shields.
"Only 5%", is stronger that it would seem as it's double the amount every other shield gets.
So it literally cuts the damage you take to your hull in half.
Let's ignore the crazy Borg lunacy torps for a sec and look at it this way, say you get hit for a torpedo that does 10K damage.
Even with the crazy torps it's strong and in some ways stronger (unless the damage is so high it would kill pretty much anything. :rolleyes: which happens, lol)
For a 100k torpedo it would be the difference between taking 10K damage or taking 5k.
Emmm.. don't think so, unless you have a shield facing thats 110k . IF a shield absorbs all of the damage, then the bleedthrough happens. If the torp blows the shield out with a 10k hit, and there's another 30k to go, pretty sure all of that hits your hull. The thing with torpedos is that it might take 40k of kinetic damage to get rid of the 10k of shield.
What you've said for smaller values where the shield stays intact is true, but frankly, I have high enough natural hull regen that even at 10% bleed it's pretty much a non-factor. I can go a loooong time before I'll need to hit Science Team from bleed dmg. One of the mitigating factors for this is that I have high kinetic hull resists.
Would you mind writing out how you came to these numbers? Because I don't believe tactical team works in the way you are saying, by taking the shields regen value and adding it per second to shields.
Tactical team basically subtracts shield points from other facings to apply to the facing under fire. So if you have one facing that's lower than the rest, it will subtract from 3 sides to help bump up the side being hit. By virtue of all of the shield facings not being maxed out, all facings then get a heal tick from EPtS and natual healing (which would go to waste if they're at max.) So, by making sure that shield facings aren't maxed, you get more healing than you would have otherwise.
Similar trick can happen with Balance Shields, though it's not as good with multiple low shields since some facing may be lower than the one that's currently getting beaten on.
Essentially he's saying that the regen on the other facings provide additional shields to siphon to the facing under fire. Of course, it works that way on MACO too, it just doesn't have the extra regen on each of the facings (but takes less damage, so doesn't need as much either.)
I personally use Omega Shields/Deflector + Borg Engine/Console. It works for me. The speed boost you get under fire also raises Defense value and helps me turn a bit faster to keep on pt. By going Omega, I felt I could drop my turn rate console, and substitute more armor. It was a good tradeoff.
MACO MK XI Effective = 9,648
Omega MK XI Effective = 8,309
MACO MK XI Regen = 152 /6s
Omega MK XI Regen = 221 /6s
So that's an advantage of 69 extra shield points regenerated every 6s.
1,300 / 69 = 18.85, let's round down to 18 "ticks" of regeneration.
It would take, 18 ticks of regeneration for the Omega regen advantage to equal the MACO extra shield and resists advantage.
4 ticks if you run at 125shield power. If I work it out correctly 125 is x4 regen so
MACO MK XI Regen = 608 /6s
Omega MK XI Regen = 884 /6s
1,300 / 276 = 4.7, round down to 4 "ticks" of regeneration. That is not even counting the use of shield recharge boost items or ships with a bonues to shield recarge.
A lot of people seem to really under underestimate recharge, even 100shield power is x3 recharge.
"For a 100k torpedo it would be the difference between taking 10K damage or taking 5k. You didnt factor in hull resistance which cuts it down more. I do not see how that cutting in half matters much.
EDIT: On a high regen shield you can heal 1600 to 2000 hitpoints per 6 seconds per faceing. That sort of makes the maco hit points look a bit useless.
Well, finally managed to obtain/purchase some MACO gear - namely the shield and the engine.
Have therefore kept my Borg deflector and console, and have fitted my Intrepid Retro with the MACO shield and engine. Haven't played it with this setup yet though, and debating whether to swap the Borg engine back, so that the MACO shield is the only piece of MACO gear I'd be running.
well i finally got what i needed to complete the Aegis set. i don't hear a lot of good about that set or notice it being used that much, but i like it.
cosmetically it looks great. it seems to increase my defense. i'm still learning the game though so really could not advise for or against this set.
for what it is worth i have excess maco and omega shields i would like to trade for maco/omega deflectors and engines. i play as miksell (rdm1958) if you are interested in trading.
well i finally got what i needed to complete the Aegis set. i don't hear a lot of good about that set or notice it being used that much, but i like it.
cosmetically it looks great. it seems to increase my defense. i'm still learning the game though so really could not advise for or against this set.
for what it is worth i have excess maco and omega shields i would like to trade for maco/omega deflectors and engines. i play as miksell (rdm1958) if you are interested in trading.
well i finally got what i needed to complete the Aegis set. i don't hear a lot of good about that set or notice it being used that much, but i like it.
cosmetically it looks great. it seems to increase my defense. i'm still learning the game though so really could not advise for or against this set.
for what it is worth i have excess maco and omega shields i would like to trade for maco/omega deflectors and engines. i play as miksell (rdm1958) if you are interested in trading.
I've been using my old aegis set on my shuttle... works great for the vault event.
The above only assumes base shield regen rates. Omega's numbers rise dramatically with EPtS, which I run two of for non-stop enhanced recharge rotation. Against borg torpedoes, MACO only gains a 5% damage resistance bonus -- all other damage mitigation is ignored since borg hax torps are kinetic based. This is probably why I can run zero defense DOFF's and ship hull armors, yet survive with only zero to 2 deaths per match when I'm careless. Lastly, with tactical team up, 4 x 221 = 884, yielding effective shield regeneration rate of 147 / second. Compare this to 101 / second for MACO, and you see a near-50% shield recovery advantage in favor of Omega. Yes, MACO will repel single big hits better, but most elite STF's deal with lots of little damage from multiple sources as opposed to big hits, and the latter can be avoided just by flying directly above / below tactical cubes.
You mentioned before in a reply to my comment that the MACO shields rely heavily on shield buffs. Sounds like you're using shield buffs anyways for your Omega.
Even still, I rarely die in elite STFs with my 2-piece MACO + Omega engines set.
You mentioned before in a reply to my comment that the MACO shields rely heavily on shield buffs. Sounds like you're using shield buffs anyways for your Omega.
If you are not using shield buffs, then you're not maximizing your ship's combat survivability. Escorts only get about 5 total engineer + sci BO slots to augment shields and hull. I personally run EPtS1 + 2 and Sci Team1 -- this is sufficient to run Omega shields without compromising sustained combat staying power. However, MACO does not have the recharge rates needed to support the above -- its recharge rate is simply too low, even when backed by EPtS1 + 2 in my builds. Other shield support combinations are possible, but I haven't seen any work as well as two EPtS instances in non-stop rotation. Many MACO users usually add Transfer Shield Strength and Reverse Shield Polarity to help with shield strength recovery.
Even still, I rarely die in elite STFs with my 2-piece MACO + Omega engines set.
I can see the above to be true if you are not generating top threat (hence not taking as much incoming weapon fire), especially from tac cubes. With Tetryon Glider and TS2 + TS3, I easily grab main threat all the time. The high / low firing angle trick works well at preventing the 1-shot kill, and with AP-Beta3, I usually hold agro the entire fight so long as I avoid the close-range tractor beam. This helps minimize deaths of other team mates.
In KASE, my build typically reduces 1 gate to 5% solo while the other team pair is still working on transformers. Its damage output is very high thanks to TS2, TS3, AP-Beta3, Tetryon Glider, and Tractor-Beam-Repulsors (used when things get hairy). 2-Set Omega Tetryon Glider adds good DPS vs shields, while the 2-set borg proc also helps with avoiding deaths, thereby minimizing subsystem damage / injuries. A tuned escort should be dealing high damage while surviving, and Tetryon-Glider based ships have a significant DPS advantage vs non-TG builds.
If you are not using shield buffs, then you're not maximizing your ship's combat survivability. Escorts only get about 5 total engineer + sci BO slots to augment shields and hull. I personally run EPtS1 + 2 and Sci Team1 -- this is sufficient to run Omega shields without compromising sustained combat staying power. However, MACO does not have the recharge rates needed to support the above -- its recharge rate is simply too low, even when backed by EPtS1 + 2 in my builds. Other shield support combinations are possible, but I haven't seen any work as well as two EPtS instances in non-stop rotation. Many MACO users usually add Transfer Shield Strength and Reverse Shield Polarity to help with shield strength recovery.
I can see the above to be true if you are not generating top threat (hence not taking as much incoming weapon fire), especially from tac cubes. With Tetryon Glider and TS2 + TS3, I easily grab main threat all the time. The high / low firing angle trick works well at preventing the 1-shot kill, and with AP-Beta3, I usually hold agro the entire fight so long as I avoid the close-range tractor beam. This helps minimize deaths of other team mates.
In KASE, my build typically reduces 1 gate to 5% solo while the other team pair is still working on transformers. Its damage output is very high thanks to TS2, TS3, AP-Beta3, Tetryon Glider, and Tractor-Beam-Repulsors (used when things get hairy). 2-Set Omega Tetryon Glider adds good DPS vs shields, while the 2-set borg proc also helps with avoiding deaths, thereby minimizing subsystem damage / injuries. A tuned escort should be dealing high damage while surviving, and Tetryon-Glider based ships have a significant DPS advantage vs non-TG builds.
I''m strongly considering going three-piece Omega. Only have the engine for the moment, which I think is fantatsic.
Tried a few variations, and replaced Borg engine with MACO, then Omega, but then lost the shield regen benefit from having three of the four Borg pieces.
Currently running Borg Deflector, Borg Console, Borg Engine & MACO shield, but have to admit that I am not that impressed with it - it's good, but can't decide if I'd be better off with the full four-piece Borg set. As I said, will likely try for full Omega set.
I''m strongly considering going three-piece Omega. Only have the engine for the moment, which I think is fantatsic.
Tried a few variations, and replaced Borg engine with MACO, then Omega, but then lost the shield regen benefit from having three of the four Borg pieces.
Currently running Borg Deflector, Borg Console, Borg Engine & MACO shield, but have to admit that I am not that impressed with it - it's good, but can't decide if I'd be better off with the full four-piece Borg set. As I said, will likely try for full Omega set.
I have 3 Omega pieces. The 2-item tetryon glider bonus is quite nice, but the 3-item Gravitic Anchor didn't seem as useful as the 2-item borg set auto-hull regen in elite STF's. It probably works well in PVP, though I'm not sure if AP-Omega breaks Gravitic Anchor's effect.
would like to hear your opinion about these sets. personally i think the Breen set is pretty weak.
Jem set + polaron weapons = highest possible dps when confiured correctly, limited survivability though. Breen set is decent, but aegis is better. I just picked up an aegis set for 3.5mil EC total off the exchange to try it out, while it might not be up to par with maco or borg sets, it certianly is better than having to grind out a set...just to be better at grinding.
this of course is talking an escort, I ran the Jem set in a star cruiser and it worked much better than the defense buff ones, being a star cruiser, it already had a ton of defense and needed that damage buff to help make up for the lack of tac slots.
Comments
I have read this thread 3 times. I have trouble with the idea of breaking up sets, but that seems to be the thing to do. Does this borg / maco set up work as well with all types of ships?
basically yes. i guess you could go 2 piece omega if you skilled the science ability that buffs tetryon glider (can't remember the name) but then you need to be carefull what you combine. omega works best engine, shield. Maco works best defelector shield. But 3 borg+ maco shield is kind of the "can't go wrong" option no matter what ship.
KHG i my opinion is worth without even thinking taking 2 pieces, but only for people with torpedo launchers. But the energy boni u get+ the engine itself has 3.8 energie to 3 subsystems, is really a nobrainer. 11.9 to aux imagine that!
3P Borg + MACO/KHG Shield is a Survival set. I run it on the Garumba (Fleet Escort with a Party trick) and I can practically tank in that thing.
2P Borg + 2P MACO (Shields/Deflector) isn't bad for a DPS cruiser as it's 2P decreases the recharge time of your BOFF abilities by 5%
2P Omega + MACO/KHG Shield is Flow Capacitor DPS/Survival. Although you should have the Borg Console in there somewhere.
3P Omega is a very good DPS set, because the Omega Shields are good, and it has one of the better set bonuses. -50% Defense on a 2 minute cooldown to your target and they can't turn. The entire team Benefits from this.
4P Borg your probably better off getting the Jem'Hadar set.
I don't have much info on the Aegis.
the Maco is actually a Resilient shield and makes up for the losses with bonuses to things like the EPS skill which regenerates power levels faster. This actually means a higher overall DPS when your power levels don't drop down so low. And so the Maco works very well with Escort class vessels. Even though you basically want to be doing hit in run in escorts, a field generator will fix the low shield capacity.
The Omega set specifically helps ships turn faster and do shield penetration. This works well on ships assigned to guard duties and tank vessels. It is regenerative so keeping the shields up is actually only a mater of properly balancing your shields like you should on any ship anyways. Again the use of a Field generator for more maximum shield capacity helps out alot here.
Aegis set is one I practically avoid flat out. But thats because its a Covarient shield. Now to say that it is junk, would not be correct. Its specifically designed so you can perform a solo hit and run and still have just enough hitpoints left in your shields (with redistribution of your shields) to actually pull off the hit and run.
Not much else can be really said about Aegis other then the fact its craftable and anyone in a fleet can get one relatively easy.
Borg set is a Regenerative set that gives bonus to power levels. Not everyone seems to realize that more power means more damage, more speed, more manuverablity... and basically just more survivability. Just because its a 'retro' set, do not dismiss it so easily. If your group properly sets up their ships so that you have atleast a support craft and a tank. Any ship desiring higher dps outputs can load up on this set. This borg set comes with its own tractor beam as well that also saps power from your enemies.
Science vessels that get put into support roles do some pretty good things with this borg set on them.
You might want to ask some questions here. So I'll summarize a little anyways.
Threat control is for your tank cruiser. It should NEVER be on an ESCORT. (see this alot)
Support ships have Extend Shields and things like Hazard Emitters. You use these on OTHERS.
Tank ships have Threat Control, and matching energy weapon types to get more dps out of matching tactical console upgrades to that energy weapon types.
Area Control science vessels have Gravity well only for the hold, not the damage. (yes MVAM can)
Escorts literally have paper thin armor reguardless of how hard you try to armor it up. If you put a tactical in it, I'm not to blame for you stealing your tanks aggro. Back off and let them do their job a little.
Oh and the Cruiser guys. Beam Fire at Will and torpedo spread sound silly but when your a huge hulk of a ship, put it to use. Its fun to decimate 6 targets at once, especially if your friend has a gravity well.
** This is just Basic info I've had to drill into some of my fleets heads and they just kept exploding non-stop. Now.. we never really even fail these stfs or explode anymore..
** Oh and Skills are very important, having them in things you don't need hurts you. Ask someone you can trust for a have decent skill point build.
I have not had the time to try any "mix" of sets yet, but you all have gave me some good ideas.
The difference is that Aegis requires BOFFs to provide it, rather than it being intrinsic. Now, the shield performance, etc, provides a little bonus resistance/regen, but not enough. But, if you had a cruiser with a pair of Emergency Power to Shields and a Reverse Polarity then the Aegis shield would be fine.
A full aegis set would actually give a cruiser decent defense value (fewer hits on the shield/hull) and a fair amount of extra hull resistance so that the regen isn't as neccessary.
That isn't to say that Aegis isn't weaker than Maco/Omega/Borg. It is. The Reactive Armor should probably apply a resistance effect to the shields too.
I've tested 3P Borg + Omega Shield, and it has more sustained staying power than MACO on my escort in elite STF's. The high shield regen rates make a huge difference, especially now that escalating respawn times are part of the game.
I still don't know if the 5% recharge rate refers to ship subsystem energy or BO abilities, but I'll test it out when I get home. I should see a 1 sec improvement per 20 sec. ability cooldown time if the above is true. If someone else can run the test before 8 hours from now, I will be most grateful
Going 2P Borg + 2P Omega seems to provide better protection with the hull regen procs in elite STF's, but this also depends on what specific pieces are brought. The Omega Shield gives me better sustained combat staying power on my escort that either MACO or KHG, but I can test this again later.
I found the 3set Omega bonus Gravitic Anchor to be somewhat underwhelming in elite STF's, but it probably does better in PVP. Does AP-Omega break Gravitic Anchor?
The Jem Haddar shield has pretty low capacity at only 4.5k shields and 150 recharge rate (escort stats). The borg shield is similar but has over 246 recharge rate. Unless you're running a Galor or Jem'Haddar bug ship, the Borg set auto-regen procs will provide far better set bonuses.
I've tested this personally.
MACO 2 piece does in fact reduce BOFF cooldowns by 5%.
The problem is that 5% is kind of irrelevant, and there are not many other global rech reductions bonuses like this to stack with.
It might be useful for some niche builds, but a power with a global cooldown of 30s shaves off 1.5s and a power with a global cooldown of say 120s shaves off 6s.
The one power it could have potential with, Tac Initiative, already reduces cooldowns so low as to hit the GCD on most powers (like TT, CRF, etc).
I suppose an MVAE could have a copy of Photonic Officer 2, but I really doubt anyone is going to use the Lt Comm Slot for that.
This is highly dependent on the Escort your flying and the profession of your captain.
I could see this potentially being useful in your MVAE with only 2 Eng BOFF powers (and probably EPTSx2) but I think a Fleet Escort with RSP 1 would get more mileage out of MACO's reduced bleedthrough and RSPs ability to pretty much refill all of your shield facings vs. a Tac Cube.
My Eng in Defiant just runs 3 piece Omega, because to be honest even using MK X and being recklessly aggressive, I can basically tank for teams without much fear in an Escort like this. Only the one-shots really take me out.
My Tac in JHAS on the other hand has the exact opposite experience from yours.
I've found much better results with MK XI MACO over MK XI Omega Shields.
He currently runs MACO shield, Omega Eng and Deflector and Borg Console with no borg bonus. It's extremely survivable, but I put a lot of faith in my extra hull with 2x Neutroniums and 2x Blue Hazard Duty DOFFs.
In this way, I can cut down on actual hull damage through active resistances and MACOs better bleedthrough protection. It means I don't need to rely on a random heal proc. MACO shield + 3P Borg would be even better, but I'm not giving up Tet Glider for those random procs.
I've found it useful on my Eng in Defiant, as he needs every possible offensive tool he can get - but I dropped it on my Tac in JHAS as I found the Omega shield just didnt provide as much protection as the MACO did.
Thanks for clarifying the above. I do agree that 5% cooldown reduction doesn't add up to much compared to set bonuses like the 2-Omega set -37 shield drain effect.
Tachyon Beam shield drains run rampant in Elite STF's. Once a player's shield drops to low levels, Borg start lobbing mass torpedo volleys that score full damage vs. player shields (no kinetic damage reduction). This makes MACO shields + RSP a liability simply because the latter combo relies heavily on incoming weapon fire that may be replaced by borg hax torpedoes instead, not to mention RSP's long 2 minute cooldown times. When I tested the MACO XI shields with 3 Borg pieces two nights ago, my advanced escort died more often than normal. Once I rotated Omega XI shields back into the mix, survival became much easier.
I normally use Omega Shields + Omega Engines + Borg Deflector + Borg Console on my advanced escort, thereby allowing me to retain both Tetryon Glider and the Borg hull heal proc. When I need more defense, I normally replace the Omega XI engine with a Borg Engine, thereby giving me shields with the highest base regen rate and shield + hull regen procs to boot. All my DOFF's are offense-based, and the only defensive consoles I run are Antimatter Spread and Theta Radiation Vents.
MACO's biggest pitfall is its low recharge speeds with only slightly more shield protection vs. Omega by around +300. Its greatest assets are its intrinsic base resists and extra power-system procs, but these do not allow ship to weather more than a few bigs hits, or a bunch of little hits, until all shields are gone.
Can you confirm if AP-Omega breaks Gravitic Anchor or not? I find that its 10 second duration is meh, but if AP-Omega breaks it, then that's a big PVP liability vs. escort players.
*I think* (I'm not 100% certain) that I have not really suffered much vs. Tachyon Shield Drains since I slotted Power Insulators ages ago. I certainly haven't had my shields simply disappear like they used to, or at least it feels like they don't.
Generally RSP is my go to emergency shield heal that I use when EPTS & TSS are still on cooldown. I cant really think of a situation where having it would be more of a liability than not having it.
There's nothing about Omega that protects it from the hax torpedos either.
On my JHAS with 1 Field Generator I have the following numbers (using MK XI, because I only have MK XII Maco but I have MK XI both to compare evenly)
MACO MK XI Slotted = 8,771 Shields
Omega MK XI Slotted = 8,309 Shields
So to start, that's a 560 shield capacity difference.
But there's more than that effectively.
MACO also resists an extra 10% all Energy damage, which stacks with the 20% resistance to plasma. The plasma resist is a wash, but 10% extra resistance is basically 10% extra shields.
So now effective totals look like this:
MACO MK XI Effective = 9,648
Omega MK XI Effective = 8,309
That's 1,300 difference in shield capacity, per facing. Let's ignore the ability to redistribute for the sake of this argument, though it does mean an extra 5,200 effective shields if you can maintain constant shield redistribution.
Let's look at the regen (and no idea if or how this gets modified, so bear with me. I wish it was visible in the UI but it isn't).
MACO MK XI Regen = 152 /6s
Omega MK XI Regen = 221 /6s
So that's an advantage of 69 extra shield points regenerated every 6s.
1,300 / 69 = 18.85, let's round down to 18 "ticks" of regeneration.
It would take, 18 ticks of regeneration for the Omega regen advantage to equal the MACO extra shield and resists advantage.
18 ticks, at 6s per tick should be 108s or 1 min 48s. This is just breaking even btw, it would take longer to overtake MACO which assumes you are in a situation where you no chance to use any shield heals - which is not a situation you encounter on STFs.
A lot can happen in 1 min 48s, which is incidentally only 12s shorter than the cooldown of RSP 1.
Let's say I'm totally wrong about how MACO resistances work, maybe it's multiplicative (very possible) and I totally goofed.
You're still looking at 20% vs. 28%, or an extra 8% above what Omega gives.
Even if we forget about the extra resistances completely, 560 (in my example anyway) extra shields is still (560 / 69 = 8.11) 8 full ticks, or 48 seconds worth of ticks to reach a break even point with MACO.
This also leaves out Power Conduit Link, which I think stacks up to around +10 power.
+10 power that, unless you are running 125 Shields power (not really common on an escort) will further increase your shield's resistances and your shields regeneration (4% per point I believe).
There's a chance I've made some errors in some of the mechanics above, but I believe that's how the two should compare vs. one another. If anyone notices any mistakes, please correct me.
I'm going to try to get a friend to test this with tonight and post back here, I don't know anyone who is running 3 piece Omega out of my friends and I can't shoot myself with it.
Only present shield level is checked by Borg AI, and if shields are low, then those torps come in blazing. With Omega's high recharge rates, shield levels don't normally drop to borg torp-spam levels unless you get focus-tachyon-beamed by 3+ Borg opponents.
The above only assumes base shield regen rates. Omega's numbers rise dramatically with EPtS, which I run two of for non-stop enhanced recharge rotation. Against borg torpedoes, MACO only gains a 5% damage resistance bonus -- all other damage mitigation is ignored since borg hax torps are kinetic based. This is probably why I can run zero defense DOFF's and ship hull armors, yet survive with only zero to 2 deaths per match when I'm careless. Lastly, with tactical team up, 4 x 221 = 884, yielding effective shield regeneration rate of 147 / second. Compare this to 101 / second for MACO, and you see a near-50% shield recovery advantage in favor of Omega. Yes, MACO will repel single big hits better, but most elite STF's deal with lots of little damage from multiple sources as opposed to big hits, and the latter can be avoided just by flying directly above / below tactical cubes.
MACO's Power Conduit proc is quite nice
I should be online tonight and will be happy to help you run tests as needed.
I'm not sure if this is true for all borg, the Negh'var and Raptors in particular seem to spam Torps all the time.
I think you might be underestimating the MACO shields, I don't really have much issues with keeping them up outside of sudden spike damage.
I'm going to give Omega another shot though over the weekend and see which I think works better (hopefully my combat logs will help).
How do you calcuate the effect of EPTS? Is it just a straight addition?
EPTS seems to muddy the waters, as you can use it in addition with MACO shields as well, unless there is something I'm missing about how shield regen values stack or get boosted.
Which TBH I'm not totally clear on.
"Only 5%", is stronger that it would seem as it's double the amount every other shield gets.
So it literally cuts the damage you take to your hull in half.
Let's ignore the crazy Borg lunacy torps for a sec and look at it this way, say you get hit for a torpedo that does 10K damage.
-90% (10% bleedthrough) = 1,000
-95% (5% bleedthrough) = 500
That's what I mean by cutting it in half.
Even with the crazy torps it's strong and in some ways stronger (unless the damage is so high it would kill pretty much anything. :rolleyes: which happens, lol)
For a 100k torpedo it would be the difference between taking 10K damage or taking 5k.
Shield regen from the actual shield itself is listed in 6s ticks, so you shouldn't really be getting X amount per second.
Would you mind writing out how you came to these numbers? Because I don't believe tactical team works in the way you are saying, by taking the shields regen value and adding it per second to shields.
Actually MACO deals with both better as it cuts all bleed through in half.
it's also the only shield with resistance to the AP cutting beam.
That's why I use them together
I lose the Borg hull proc, but I take less hull damage in the first place - half as much to be exact.
That would be great, if you see me online send a tell.
I typically run EPtS1+2 and science team1 to maintain shields. As a result, I cannot support MACO as easily as I can Omega since I tend to stay prolonged combat. However, this also gives my build access to Tractor Beam Repulsors to help with bonus mission objectives.
EPtS adds to base recharge rates, but it adds a fixed shield heal, adds power to shield systems (thereby increasing recharge rate and damage resistance), and mitigates incoming shield damage by a fixed percentage. This is where actual performance gets difficult to measure due to multiple overlapping variables. However, since current shield power multiplies base shield regeneration rates, a bigger base shield regen level gets multiplied to a higher final total.
I almost never notice the bleed-through damage due to my ship's small crew count. I'm guessing if my crew count were higher due to using a cruiser, then the crew loss would be more significant. However, given that borg torps do not seem to get any kinetic damage reduction, a 100k torp will usually kill any ship outright unless brace for impact is up.
Since Tactical Team auto-distributes all shields multiple times per second, a ship's effective shield rating becomes 4 facings x shield_facing_capacity, and its total shield facings recharge rate becomes 4 x shield_recharge, but only while TT is up. Since each facing recharges once per 6 seconds, average recharge rate per second becomes (4 x shield_recharge_rate) / 6 sec. As a result, Omega Mk XI shields have (4 facings x 221 shield regen) / 6 sec = ~147 shields x facings / sec.
I rarely have situations where my shields were up while my ship was destroyed, and usually the latter is caused by plasma fires more often than straight bleed through damage. As a result, it's difficult for me to weigh bleed-through defense percentage importance since I never notice big hull damage mid-fight until my shields are breached. If my shields are down, that's the only time my ship takes significant damage. Otherwise Hazard Emitters 1 keeps me up without too much difficulty.
I'll give a MACO another shot again tonight to see what happens...
So are you running ST1, HE2 and TBR?
I dont worry about crew, the bleed through cuts down on damage you take direct to hull.
Ok, so let's look at the difference in that regen although it's not really per second even though it averages out that way.
147 vs. 101 (MACO) x facings /sec
That's 46 extra per facing (over MACO), per second but really works out to an extra 276 every 6s.
The MACO shield from my earlier example would have an effective cushion of 560 per facing, or 2,240 to the total shield pool. Then there is the, somewhat hard to quantify, extra 10% resistance to all, and approximately extra 10 shield power (which further adds to both resistance and regen)
I'm not sure how much more regen and if it is a straight 4% per point of power it would be 40%. That seems very high.
Anyway, that's an advantage of 552 extra regen in 12s for Omega vs. the 560 cushion for MACO.
The thing is, every 15s you can have both EPTS and TT 1 available, so by the time Omega has a chance to pull ahead - you've already got your shield heals ready to go.
I think at this point I'd kill to have dynamic shield resistance and regen values visible in the UI.
With the right type of Conn Officer you can lower the cooldown of a single Tac Team to about 20s. This is of course far more use to a Cruiser than an Escort.
The Tetryon Glider is effected by both Weapons power and Flow Capacitor Skill. I'm pumping out about 60-ish.
I'm running HE1, Sci-Team1, and TBR1.
Bleed-through damage percentage only matters while shields are up. Once they're down, all damage goes directly to hull. However, I have a much easier time keeping Omega shields up since I run my ship at full speed all the time, resulting in high defense ratings which leads to many enemy shots missing, thereby gaining more time to regenerate. Now that run AP-Beta3 instead of AP-Omega3, my build is a little more vulnerable to tractor beams, but these haven't been too difficult to handle.
True, the amount of variables does get overwhelming. I did give MACO a try again, but could not maintain it as usual in prolonged combat. Perhaps I have to change my tactics to make it work better.
I think the different shield types have different regen rates that get multiplied by the Shield Power factor, which is IN ADDITION to the regen listed on EPtS. Bumping up shield Power levels by 20 increases the natural regen rate by a certain amt. Not sure what that amt is since Cryptic doesn't list dynamic regen rates for shields.
Emmm.. don't think so, unless you have a shield facing thats 110k .
What you've said for smaller values where the shield stays intact is true, but frankly, I have high enough natural hull regen that even at 10% bleed it's pretty much a non-factor. I can go a loooong time before I'll need to hit Science Team from bleed dmg. One of the mitigating factors for this is that I have high kinetic hull resists.
Tactical team basically subtracts shield points from other facings to apply to the facing under fire. So if you have one facing that's lower than the rest, it will subtract from 3 sides to help bump up the side being hit. By virtue of all of the shield facings not being maxed out, all facings then get a heal tick from EPtS and natual healing (which would go to waste if they're at max.) So, by making sure that shield facings aren't maxed, you get more healing than you would have otherwise.
Similar trick can happen with Balance Shields, though it's not as good with multiple low shields since some facing may be lower than the one that's currently getting beaten on.
Essentially he's saying that the regen on the other facings provide additional shields to siphon to the facing under fire. Of course, it works that way on MACO too, it just doesn't have the extra regen on each of the facings (but takes less damage, so doesn't need as much either.)
I personally use Omega Shields/Deflector + Borg Engine/Console. It works for me. The speed boost you get under fire also raises Defense value and helps me turn a bit faster to keep on pt. By going Omega, I felt I could drop my turn rate console, and substitute more armor. It was a good tradeoff.
The answer is MACO, because it offers a cool ship reskin.
=3
MACO MK XI Regen = 608 /6s
Omega MK XI Regen = 884 /6s
1,300 / 276 = 4.7, round down to 4 "ticks" of regeneration. That is not even counting the use of shield recharge boost items or ships with a bonues to shield recarge.
A lot of people seem to really under underestimate recharge, even 100shield power is x3 recharge.
"For a 100k torpedo it would be the difference between taking 10K damage or taking 5k.
You didnt factor in hull resistance which cuts it down more. I do not see how that cutting in half matters much.
EDIT: On a high regen shield you can heal 1600 to 2000 hitpoints per 6 seconds per faceing. That sort of makes the maco hit points look a bit useless.
Have therefore kept my Borg deflector and console, and have fitted my Intrepid Retro with the MACO shield and engine. Haven't played it with this setup yet though, and debating whether to swap the Borg engine back, so that the MACO shield is the only piece of MACO gear I'd be running.
cosmetically it looks great. it seems to increase my defense. i'm still learning the game though so really could not advise for or against this set.
for what it is worth i have excess maco and omega shields i would like to trade for maco/omega deflectors and engines. i play as miksell (rdm1958) if you are interested in trading.
They are Bound.
well TRIBBLE. now with borg missions so difficult and stingy it will take forever to get another set. thanks for the info.
I've been using my old aegis set on my shuttle... works great for the vault event.
Even still, I rarely die in elite STFs with my 2-piece MACO + Omega engines set.
If you are not using shield buffs, then you're not maximizing your ship's combat survivability. Escorts only get about 5 total engineer + sci BO slots to augment shields and hull. I personally run EPtS1 + 2 and Sci Team1 -- this is sufficient to run Omega shields without compromising sustained combat staying power. However, MACO does not have the recharge rates needed to support the above -- its recharge rate is simply too low, even when backed by EPtS1 + 2 in my builds. Other shield support combinations are possible, but I haven't seen any work as well as two EPtS instances in non-stop rotation. Many MACO users usually add Transfer Shield Strength and Reverse Shield Polarity to help with shield strength recovery.
I can see the above to be true if you are not generating top threat (hence not taking as much incoming weapon fire), especially from tac cubes. With Tetryon Glider and TS2 + TS3, I easily grab main threat all the time. The high / low firing angle trick works well at preventing the 1-shot kill, and with AP-Beta3, I usually hold agro the entire fight so long as I avoid the close-range tractor beam. This helps minimize deaths of other team mates.
In KASE, my build typically reduces 1 gate to 5% solo while the other team pair is still working on transformers. Its damage output is very high thanks to TS2, TS3, AP-Beta3, Tetryon Glider, and Tractor-Beam-Repulsors (used when things get hairy). 2-Set Omega Tetryon Glider adds good DPS vs shields, while the 2-set borg proc also helps with avoiding deaths, thereby minimizing subsystem damage / injuries. A tuned escort should be dealing high damage while surviving, and Tetryon-Glider based ships have a significant DPS advantage vs non-TG builds.
I''m strongly considering going three-piece Omega. Only have the engine for the moment, which I think is fantatsic.
Tried a few variations, and replaced Borg engine with MACO, then Omega, but then lost the shield regen benefit from having three of the four Borg pieces.
Currently running Borg Deflector, Borg Console, Borg Engine & MACO shield, but have to admit that I am not that impressed with it - it's good, but can't decide if I'd be better off with the full four-piece Borg set. As I said, will likely try for full Omega set.
I have 3 Omega pieces. The 2-item tetryon glider bonus is quite nice, but the 3-item Gravitic Anchor didn't seem as useful as the 2-item borg set auto-hull regen in elite STF's. It probably works well in PVP, though I'm not sure if AP-Omega breaks Gravitic Anchor's effect.
Jem set + polaron weapons = highest possible dps when confiured correctly, limited survivability though. Breen set is decent, but aegis is better. I just picked up an aegis set for 3.5mil EC total off the exchange to try it out, while it might not be up to par with maco or borg sets, it certianly is better than having to grind out a set...just to be better at grinding.
this of course is talking an escort, I ran the Jem set in a star cruiser and it worked much better than the defense buff ones, being a star cruiser, it already had a ton of defense and needed that damage buff to help make up for the lack of tac slots.