Promoting sustenance, teamwork, smart defensive/evasive play, and giving cruisers and science vessels some more purpose for once, as opposed to a favoring group of glass-cannon kamikaze escorts respawning non-stop with no repercussion, is a bad thing? Phew.
Do note that the new "feature" is a stacking penalty, which means it will only have any noticeable effect when someone keeps dying over and over againand if they are dying that many times to carry the penalty to the max, without even being able to stay alive for several minutes to clear it, could you really say they were much help in the first place?
I hope they dont make them as common as they did the rare tech. There needs to be a compromise that rewards those who stuck with the program and grinded for their gear, balanced with keeping it rare as it should be. I have 4 more characters and their bridge officers to get their Mk XII gear, and I think it WOULD be nice to have an increased drop rate - just not AS much as they did with the rare tech.
Grinding doesn't prove anything except that you have a large amount of free time to invest into a repeated activity.
Having MK XII gear doesn't even prove that you've been grinding the missions! How many of us have been running these non-stop with no tech in sight to have someone new to elites grab a prototech in their first week?
It proves absolutely nothing, except that the RNG rolled one way or another.
If attaining this gear was achievable through special objectives or was in any way indicative of skill you might be onto something.
Promoting sustenance, teamwork, smart defensive/evasive play, and giving cruisers and science vessels some more purpose for once, as opposed to a favoring group of glass-cannon kamikaze escorts respawning non-stop with no repercussion, is a bad thing? Phew.
Will they actually build to fill those roles?
Outside of some people I tend to group with regularly, getting any kind of support from either of those two ship classes or finding a Cruiser Capt that actually took threat control is exceedingly rare.
We will be bringing the Tribble server down for maintenance to apply a new update.
ST.17.20120413a.2
STFs:
All STFs now feature a respawn timer that gets progressively longer every time a player dies and respawns, up to a max respawn time of 2 minutes.
The time stack will clear after 3 minutes of play without a death.
Mission completion loot bags on Space STFs will now spawn at the players position on the map, instead of central location on the map.
You can not have both of these implemented. Frequently at the end of STFs, players will be playing more risky as the weaken the boss such that they are often close enough to get blown up by the explosion. More than likely, people have been dieing very frequently towards the end as well. So after dieing and completing the mission, they could end up waiting for two minutes, and as soon as they come back they will have seconds to get their loot drop... except with it being where they were when they died rather than at a central point, they could end up running out of time looking for it.
You completely misread what I posted. I wasn't bragging at all. I just said I hope they dont make it TOO much easier like they did the rare tech. I SUPPORT increased drop rates. I just wanted to put in feedback that I hope they dont make them as common as they did the rare tech. There needs to be a compromise that rewards those who stuck with the program and grinded for their gear, balanced with keeping it rare as it should be. I have 4 more characters and their bridge officers to get their Mk XII gear, and I think it WOULD be nice to have an increased drop rate - just not AS much as they did with the rare tech.
Appolgize then for the misunderstanding. But instead of increasing drop rates we should've gotten a free requisition when unlocking the higher STF accolades. Problem solved.
Appolgize then for the misunderstanding. But instead of increasing drop rates we should've gotten a free requisition when unlocking the higher STF accolades. Problem solved.
I can definitely see that - the optional objectives are challenging enough to prove skill and effort with the right teams, and I would definitely lend my vote for such an accolade unlock - especially with the new KAGE optional upgrades happening in the morning, as well as the already existing IGE optional. THAT one is a bane to get LOL.
Grinding doesn't prove anything except that you have a large amount of free time to invest into a repeated activity.
Having MK XII gear doesn't even prove that you've been grinding the missions! How many of us have been running these non-stop with no tech in sight to have someone new to elites grab a prototech in their first week?
I guess I always looked at it as a test pf patience. No one gets their gear overnight. it just doesn't happen. If there is one thing the current STF system tests it is patience. I'm pretty sure that is what I was getting at. People get very worked up over a game, and I tend to look on that in an amusing light. Rage over a game is not logical. A lot of people do not see the glass half full like I try to do. Okay . . . almost no one does. That's the cool part about being unique is that i can look at things in a different perspective.
How I see it is: Okay, so I didn't get my tech this time, but I had a GREAT time running with a GREAT group of friends that i met here in STO, AND I get dilithium like crazy doing it (plenty of free c-store points to buy things). Yes, it is repetitive. and can drag out sometimes. But that's when we take a break and go do a Defera Invasion, Red Alerts, DOFF Missions, etc. STFs are not the only end-game option.
The point is, everyone acts like because something is in the game that they absolutely HAVE to have it to progress. That is not the case. You are level 50 - there is nothing to progress to. This gear does not block you from finishing the game. Yet there is so much rage over it.
I stated it before - I have multiple characters and bridge officers who have yet to see a single Mk XII piece. I work through one character at a time simply because I DO have the time and PATIENCE to do it. I work, and i have a life and I set my own ground rules for the time and effort I put into the game. But above all, I remember that this IS just a game.
I am sorry to see so many people going postal, and so my point was to see the glass half full, and see the OTHER benefits you are getting from STFs and an MMO in general. Social networking, dilithium, loads of energy credits from loot, AND a great pass-time while waiting for additional content to come out.
of course, as expected, no one saw at all the parts I wrote where i SUPPORT you guys in SOME of the changes needing further attention, such as the re-spawn timer being in space and an answer on the length of the optional timer for KAGE. it is very typical of the majority of the player base to pick the negative out of every potentially positive post that gets put on these forums. All i can do is raise my glass of Blood Wine to you and say a toast in hopes that folks can see both sides of the fence and not only the gloom of it all.
You ARE absolutely RIGHT though . . . Elite STF gear does NOT prove skill. It ONLY proves patience, OR it acknowledges that someone spent some time with friends or a good team passing boredom for a while. I never once said anything about skill. The STFs are so bloody easy that an infant could repeat them over and over again. THAT is what makes them such an easy farm for dilithium.
No one is forcing players to get MK XII gear, either. Players do NOT have to have that gear. Mk XI gear is good enough as well. Mk XII gear is NOTHING MORE than a by-product for people who use the STFs to pass the time while waiting for new missions and content to release. DOFFs, Red Alerts, etc are just as important to the higher levels of the game, and if STFs get this stressful, feel free to step back and enjoy those elements of the game as well
I do not want a respawn timer in STFs. What are you guys doing this for? If people want team work they actually need to work it out not ask the Devs to force it on us. This is a game and some people don't play it seriously and are actually playing it to have fun. If we constantly get blown up in STFs or killed in STFs and die then this respawn timer would make it frustrating and anger and stress out players who don't like dying. And for you guys who say this is good...I don't agree. I don't like this change at all. Get rid of the respawn timer I don't want it in the game. :mad:
I do not want a respawn timer in STFs. What are you guys doing this for? If people want team work they actually need to work it out not ask the Devs to force it on us. This is a game and some people don't play it seriously and are actually playing it to have fun. If we constantly get blown up in STFs or killed in STFs and die then this respawn timer would make it frustrating and anger and stress out players who don't like dying. And for you guys who say this is good...I don't agree. I don't like this change at all. Get rid of the respawn timer I don't want it in the game. :mad:
You are absolutely correct. This is indeed a game. The fortunate thing about STO is that it has different levels and focuses of challenge depending on what you do. In that light, i do support the changes with a few alterations for space battle, but support the basic process nonetheless.
The good news is you still get to enjoy the game. STFs are not required nor are necessary for any progression in the game. There is plenty to do for all levels of entertainment in STO. Red Alerts, Deferi Borg Invasions, Storyline Missions, DOFF Missions, Dailies, PvP . . . JUST to name a few.
I am on the fence about the re-spawn timer being in space. but then again we have not even seen the final results yet. Every time the Devs have made a major change, players have cried out not to do it, then the panic dies off as players adapt to the new strategies. A lot of people seem to hate change, yet change is what keeps MMOs dynamic and interesting to me.
Remember the hysteria that happened with the Odyssey release . . . people thought the SCI cruiser variant was the literal end of STO and of the world in general. Now I don't even hear anything about it because players quickly adapted. The ship that was SUPPOSEDLY "unkillable" based on interpretation of numbers on a web page by wanna-be math geeks was quickly dis-proven as not that powerful at all within a week after release. No matter how good you are as a tank . . . I will very quickly kill an Odyssey.
Moral here is . . . give the changes a chance THEN lets see how it all balances out.
On a personal note, I DO stand with the posters here with concern over the space battle timers, and I DO believe these changes should NOT be implemented in Normal STFs (Normals are supposed to be tutorials only for part time casual players), but if the changes go through, I recognize that this is a game environment. i will adapt or i will find something else to do in game that I find fun.
Yea right with the cubes one shots and invisable one shots, guess youll be doing them alone
I took your advice. KASE my ESCORT took on the right side cubes . . . alone . . . and did not die once. Mind you I was in THE squishiest ship in the game besides a BOP and i survived. The cubes never one-shotted me, nor did they even do much damage. Ah . . . and I had time to swoop down and nail the probes between killing the cubes. If you do not believe me, I have teammates that can post here to attest to this. :cool:
Ah .. . and the spawn timers are NOT the panic people are making them out to be. people died on our team . . . we pulled through. ALL 6 STF runs were successful. And optionals? IGE is a bit of a pain for me at the moment, but the rest are still very easy. KAGE . . . still way too easy of a mission to do.
I do not want a respawn timer in STFs. What are you guys doing this for?
Maybe they've finally realized that fail carebear mechanics make things less enjoyable for everyone but the lowest common denominator of gamers?
The less carebear STO becomes, the better. Maybe they can get some of the non-carebear Trek fans to come back. Most trek fans aren't especially casual, and it was a mistake to alienate them with such an unappealing and unchallenging game experience.
I guess I always looked at it as a test pf patience. No one gets their gear overnight. it just doesn't happen. If there is one thing the current STF system tests it is patience.
No one has ever requested it be overnight.
You can have a fully deterministic method for attaining gear that prevents people from gearing overnight.
Not to mention a random based loot system does not prevent this.
So you're not testing anything, except how long your players are willing to put up with a very archaic endgame system before they finally decide to quit, and move on.
The reason we even have things like EDCs in the first place is because of ye olde guilds from the ancient days of MMOs - players did not like raid-farming with a random loot roll, so one very smart player in particular invented a quasi-deterministic system for loot distribution within a guild through the earning of points (DKPs, to be specific - created by Thott of Afterlife from EQ).
EDCs are in fact, earning something through patience, but there is no similar deterministic method for MK XII gear.
I'm pretty sure that is what I was getting at. People get very worked up over a game, and I tend to look on that in an amusing light. Rage over a game is not logical. A lot of people do not see the glass half full like I try to do. Okay . . . almost no one does. That's the cool part about being unique is that i can look at things in a different perspective.
It's not just a game, its a product. Some of us also support this product with our disposable income.
Have you ever been to a sporting event? People get pretty worked up over those "games", and they aren't even playing in them.
What's not logical is pretending that human beings do not have emotions, and that they do not become emotionally invested in their hobbies (especially ones they spend money on) - that's not logic, that's utter nonsense.
How I see it is: Okay, so I didn't get my tech this time, but I had a GREAT time running with a GREAT group of friends that i met here in STO, AND I get dilithium like crazy doing it (plenty of free c-store points to buy things). Yes, it is repetitive. and can drag out sometimes. But that's when we take a break and go do a Defera Invasion, Red Alerts, DOFF Missions, etc. STFs are not the only end-game option.
None of those other things are 'endgame', the fact that you can partake in those systems below a certain level precludes them from ever possibly being "endgame".
I think you might not have a clear concept of what an endgame in an MMO is.
Comments
Do note that the new "feature" is a stacking penalty, which means it will only have any noticeable effect when someone keeps dying over and over againand if they are dying that many times to carry the penalty to the max, without even being able to stay alive for several minutes to clear it, could you really say they were much help in the first place?
Grinding doesn't prove anything except that you have a large amount of free time to invest into a repeated activity.
Having MK XII gear doesn't even prove that you've been grinding the missions! How many of us have been running these non-stop with no tech in sight to have someone new to elites grab a prototech in their first week?
It proves absolutely nothing, except that the RNG rolled one way or another.
If attaining this gear was achievable through special objectives or was in any way indicative of skill you might be onto something.
Will they actually build to fill those roles?
Outside of some people I tend to group with regularly, getting any kind of support from either of those two ship classes or finding a Cruiser Capt that actually took threat control is exceedingly rare.
the vault shuttle mission shows up on the pve list with a warning about needing a shuttle to start.
when i switch to a shuttle, the event disappears from the list so it cant be accessed at all.
You can not have both of these implemented. Frequently at the end of STFs, players will be playing more risky as the weaken the boss such that they are often close enough to get blown up by the explosion. More than likely, people have been dieing very frequently towards the end as well. So after dieing and completing the mission, they could end up waiting for two minutes, and as soon as they come back they will have seconds to get their loot drop... except with it being where they were when they died rather than at a central point, they could end up running out of time looking for it.
Appolgize then for the misunderstanding. But instead of increasing drop rates we should've gotten a free requisition when unlocking the higher STF accolades. Problem solved.
Yeah, guess 4 months and 800 STFs, while 0playing with expert players and one of the PW team isn't hard enough work. :rolleyes:
I can definitely see that - the optional objectives are challenging enough to prove skill and effort with the right teams, and I would definitely lend my vote for such an accolade unlock - especially with the new KAGE optional upgrades happening in the morning, as well as the already existing IGE optional. THAT one is a bane to get LOL.
I guess I always looked at it as a test pf patience. No one gets their gear overnight. it just doesn't happen. If there is one thing the current STF system tests it is patience. I'm pretty sure that is what I was getting at. People get very worked up over a game, and I tend to look on that in an amusing light. Rage over a game is not logical. A lot of people do not see the glass half full like I try to do. Okay . . . almost no one does. That's the cool part about being unique is that i can look at things in a different perspective.
How I see it is: Okay, so I didn't get my tech this time, but I had a GREAT time running with a GREAT group of friends that i met here in STO, AND I get dilithium like crazy doing it (plenty of free c-store points to buy things). Yes, it is repetitive. and can drag out sometimes. But that's when we take a break and go do a Defera Invasion, Red Alerts, DOFF Missions, etc. STFs are not the only end-game option.
The point is, everyone acts like because something is in the game that they absolutely HAVE to have it to progress. That is not the case. You are level 50 - there is nothing to progress to. This gear does not block you from finishing the game. Yet there is so much rage over it.
I stated it before - I have multiple characters and bridge officers who have yet to see a single Mk XII piece. I work through one character at a time simply because I DO have the time and PATIENCE to do it. I work, and i have a life and I set my own ground rules for the time and effort I put into the game. But above all, I remember that this IS just a game.
I am sorry to see so many people going postal, and so my point was to see the glass half full, and see the OTHER benefits you are getting from STFs and an MMO in general. Social networking, dilithium, loads of energy credits from loot, AND a great pass-time while waiting for additional content to come out.
of course, as expected, no one saw at all the parts I wrote where i SUPPORT you guys in SOME of the changes needing further attention, such as the re-spawn timer being in space and an answer on the length of the optional timer for KAGE. it is very typical of the majority of the player base to pick the negative out of every potentially positive post that gets put on these forums. All i can do is raise my glass of Blood Wine to you and say a toast in hopes that folks can see both sides of the fence and not only the gloom of it all.
You ARE absolutely RIGHT though . . . Elite STF gear does NOT prove skill. It ONLY proves patience, OR it acknowledges that someone spent some time with friends or a good team passing boredom for a while. I never once said anything about skill. The STFs are so bloody easy that an infant could repeat them over and over again. THAT is what makes them such an easy farm for dilithium.
No one is forcing players to get MK XII gear, either. Players do NOT have to have that gear. Mk XI gear is good enough as well. Mk XII gear is NOTHING MORE than a by-product for people who use the STFs to pass the time while waiting for new missions and content to release. DOFFs, Red Alerts, etc are just as important to the higher levels of the game, and if STFs get this stressful, feel free to step back and enjoy those elements of the game as well
Yea right with the cubes one shots and invisable one shots, guess youll be doing them alone
You are absolutely correct. This is indeed a game. The fortunate thing about STO is that it has different levels and focuses of challenge depending on what you do. In that light, i do support the changes with a few alterations for space battle, but support the basic process nonetheless.
The good news is you still get to enjoy the game. STFs are not required nor are necessary for any progression in the game. There is plenty to do for all levels of entertainment in STO. Red Alerts, Deferi Borg Invasions, Storyline Missions, DOFF Missions, Dailies, PvP . . . JUST to name a few.
I am on the fence about the re-spawn timer being in space. but then again we have not even seen the final results yet. Every time the Devs have made a major change, players have cried out not to do it, then the panic dies off as players adapt to the new strategies. A lot of people seem to hate change, yet change is what keeps MMOs dynamic and interesting to me.
Remember the hysteria that happened with the Odyssey release . . . people thought the SCI cruiser variant was the literal end of STO and of the world in general. Now I don't even hear anything about it because players quickly adapted. The ship that was SUPPOSEDLY "unkillable" based on interpretation of numbers on a web page by wanna-be math geeks was quickly dis-proven as not that powerful at all within a week after release. No matter how good you are as a tank . . . I will very quickly kill an Odyssey.
Moral here is . . . give the changes a chance THEN lets see how it all balances out.
On a personal note, I DO stand with the posters here with concern over the space battle timers, and I DO believe these changes should NOT be implemented in Normal STFs (Normals are supposed to be tutorials only for part time casual players), but if the changes go through, I recognize that this is a game environment. i will adapt or i will find something else to do in game that I find fun.
That's why they reduced the damage of the NPC's, I guess. ;-)
But we'll see if they did that as much as necessary for tanking to work. ^^
I took your advice. KASE my ESCORT took on the right side cubes . . . alone . . . and did not die once. Mind you I was in THE squishiest ship in the game besides a BOP and i survived. The cubes never one-shotted me, nor did they even do much damage. Ah . . . and I had time to swoop down and nail the probes between killing the cubes. If you do not believe me, I have teammates that can post here to attest to this. :cool:
Ah .. . and the spawn timers are NOT the panic people are making them out to be. people died on our team . . . we pulled through. ALL 6 STF runs were successful. And optionals? IGE is a bit of a pain for me at the moment, but the rest are still very easy. KAGE . . . still way too easy of a mission to do.
Maybe they've finally realized that fail carebear mechanics make things less enjoyable for everyone but the lowest common denominator of gamers?
The less carebear STO becomes, the better. Maybe they can get some of the non-carebear Trek fans to come back. Most trek fans aren't especially casual, and it was a mistake to alienate them with such an unappealing and unchallenging game experience.
No one has ever requested it be overnight.
You can have a fully deterministic method for attaining gear that prevents people from gearing overnight.
Not to mention a random based loot system does not prevent this.
So you're not testing anything, except how long your players are willing to put up with a very archaic endgame system before they finally decide to quit, and move on.
The reason we even have things like EDCs in the first place is because of ye olde guilds from the ancient days of MMOs - players did not like raid-farming with a random loot roll, so one very smart player in particular invented a quasi-deterministic system for loot distribution within a guild through the earning of points (DKPs, to be specific - created by Thott of Afterlife from EQ).
EDCs are in fact, earning something through patience, but there is no similar deterministic method for MK XII gear.
It's not just a game, its a product. Some of us also support this product with our disposable income.
Have you ever been to a sporting event? People get pretty worked up over those "games", and they aren't even playing in them.
What's not logical is pretending that human beings do not have emotions, and that they do not become emotionally invested in their hobbies (especially ones they spend money on) - that's not logic, that's utter nonsense.
None of those other things are 'endgame', the fact that you can partake in those systems below a certain level precludes them from ever possibly being "endgame".
I think you might not have a clear concept of what an endgame in an MMO is.
It proves none of those things.
The rest of your post kind of devolved into "player's don't need X". This is obvious, why would you even state this?
Player's want this, but instead of allowing them to earn it - they are forced to put up with a random loot mechanic instead.