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Opinions on Captain Shon

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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Why does everyone keep saying Shon is the first non-human captain of the Enterprise?

    Even leaving aside Data, does no one remember that the captain of the Enterprise 1701 (no bloody A B C or D) was commanded by Captain Spock for presumably years leading into STII when it was an Academy training ship?

    We've had a Vulcan captain. Why not Andorian?
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    After the dealings with him on DS9, I was kind of surprised that he ended up as Captain of the Enterprise. He struck me more as KDF rather than Starfleet.

    Were he a DOFF, he's the guy you'd send on Marauding Assignments...not Diplomatic.

    Question would you have sent James T Kirk on a diplomatic assignment??
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Lets see....

    For one, I'm glad that an Alien actually got the Captain's chair for once.

    For another, they could have done worse. Captain Shon isn't so bad. In the first part of 2800, he was rather personable, though at the conference I found him to be reactionary and a little too military minded to be Starfleet Material.

    Sacrificing the Belfast was a noble gesture on his part, showed he had some guts. I like that.

    And when he zoomed in on his shiny new Odyssey, he only had enough time for a quick introduction and to state his intentions. That's not a lot of time to develop his character further.

    Overall, I think Cryptic could have worked harder to make his mannerisms and way of speaking a little more... alien, and less human. Otherwise he's perfectly alright.

    And don't forget, the man has a holostatue right next to the tailor on ESD (it's been there for quite awhile)... so he's gotta be a big deal in this universe.



    I would also like to add that a lot of the complaints about Captain Shon, and also of Captain Kurland, are a result of the restrictions that the developers have to work with. Frankly, the story has to center on your character, not NPC captains like Shon and Kurland. Their hands are tied by this constraint. If Kurland and Shon were realistically competent we wouldn't need to bring our characters in and save the day.

    Also keep in mind that these characters have to appeal to a broader gameplaying audience... subtleties tend to fly over people's heads, so at the risk of being two dimensional, the characters have to act more overdramatic, their views more simplistic, in order to be understood. However, I personally add that we Star Trek watchin' geeks are smarter than the average bear, and we can handle a little more subtlety in characters, a little more complexity in the story.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Overall, I think Cryptic could have worked harder to make his mannerisms and way of speaking a little more... alien, and less human. Otherwise he's perfectly alright.

    Unless he was raised on Earth. That's the only way his mannerisms make sense to me.

    Maybe he's from Riker's hometown in Alaska or something.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Jenel wrote:
    My thoughts on Shon? He's an incompetent idiot.

    Lets go over the encounters with him.

    1, He can't maintain his own ship, let alone his crew, so he begs you to fix it for him and then babysit his crew so they don't get into trouble.

    2, Which moron thought it was a good idea to send him to the Borg Summit? You have to remind him of what the Federation and Star Fleet stand for as he basically sits there and tells everybody that Star Fleet doesn't want to help, even though Star Fleet orchestrated the summit. And considering that you already have an Admiral there, Kurland and then yourself, he's completely surplus to requirements. I did the 2800 on my Lt Cmdr yesterday and took great please in a lower ranking officer basically telling to stfu.

    3, He "rides to the rescue" after you depart Facility 4028. In other words, he turns up distracts them by getting the TRIBBLE blown out of his ship so you can escape 2 seconds later only to have his ship blown up. That is not a good tactic.

    Adding all that together, how on earth does this man seem a good canditate for the captincy of the Enterprise?

    But to be honest, can we blame all of this on Shon as a character? No, the blame for the sheer underwhelming feelings of Shon lies with Cryptic. The overall storyline of The 2800 has been fun, but they seriously need to hire some proper writers if they want to do storied events and create characters we can like and relate to.

    This. A billion times this.

    Shon is an idiot. I can't say much more than the quote above, but I will add this: during the final battle, when the Enterprise-F warps in and we're all supposed to be awed by how amazingly awesome it is to rip off First Contact, I was sitting there going "Really? I think I got this, man. Why don't you take your new Enterprise and patrol the Romulan neutral zone (just in case)? Seriously, I got this."

    Because I did. That battle wasn't hard and in fact, the Enterprise-F only survived it because of her plot armor. Otherwise, that shiny new ship of Shon's would have been reduced to its constituent particles pretty quickly.

    So with all that said, my Captain is WAY more competent than Shon and totally should have gotten the flagship of the Federation over that moron. I understand that players can't have the Enterprise for obvious reasons, but giving it to Shon was a bad idea. Makes me wonder who he's sleeping with over at Starfleet command :p
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Shon? I thought he'd be taller. :)
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    I'm rather ambivilent towards Shon, but I think it's sufficient to say that I intend to call him Captain Val Kel FistPump from here out.

    ...You expected something else? :p
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    I prefer to think of him as Val Kilmer Shawn Brodie.

    Basically, he's Stormshade meets the Saint. He's the Stormsaint. And he probably got his posting through weird science moderation powers.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    As a character, he seems interesting. What weirds me out is how human his expressions and figures of speech are. He's very... folksy for an Andorian. Was he raised by humans?

    I expect that this is the case. Or should be. The captain has always been the central figure in trek who facilitates the means to illustrate what trek is all about. It illustrates different things to different people of course, but I think we could agree it has always tried to project human stories and interests and attitudes onto aliens/situations so that we can reflect upon them and find enlightenment or realisation to some degree about our own human nature.

    A completely alien Captain, even a humanoid, would really shake things up in that regard. I was reminded of this the other day when watching the Ensign Ro review by SFdebris on Ensign Ro. A character he called "alien" compared to the majority of the various others who were human, wanted to be human, or emulated human behavior in some way.

    SFdebris reference: http://sfdebris.com/startrek/t203.asp
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    superchum wrote: »
    That's why it fascinates me so much. Back when the contest winner was revealed the ship design had the same reaction. Tons of hatred. Now people are proclaiming their love for the ship.

    Shon just appeared, and viola, nothing but hatred.

    6 months from now, I'm wondering if it will change as drastically as the Odyssey did.

    Gah, I just said I loved the ship since it's debut, and I know I was hardly the only one. Now you're just putting words in people's mouths. And it's off topic at that...
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Gah, I just said I loved the ship since it's debut, and I know I was hardly the only one. Now you're just putting words in people's mouths. And it's off topic at that...

    I am not putting words in anyone's mouths. Are you suggesting that the ship design was well received? I will dig up the old threads if this suggestion persists. I will quote post after post after post flaming Ihle for his design. Moderators had to repeatedly intervene due to the hatred. I'm beginning to find it extremely disingenuous to suggest the ship was well received. You can claim all you want that you liked it from the get-go. You were definitely in the minority. Heck you can find my OWN posts from the time, congratulating the guy for winning and me thinking the design was sweet looking. I was in the minority. The avalanche of responses were hatred for the ship and discussion of who "should have" won the contest.

    And like I said ... we're seeing the exact same phenomenon take place here. People are hating all over Shon. Just like in the previous dozen or so "who should captain the new Enterprise?" threads, people wanted someone else. A Sulu or Picard's son or whatever. And now there's nothing but hatred for Shon (except, oddly enough, from me. I've already posted multiple times I dig the new captain and think he fits the ship).

    So I'm totally enraptured with this topic and the way it's playing out. It's going almost exactly like the Odyssey design contest went. People are ticked that their choice for who should captain the ship didn't win out. And showing their rage over that. Directing it at Shon himself, blaming silly stuff like the gesture mechanics of the limited character animations in cut scenes.

    It's classic.

    But I am eagerly anticipating the "cooling off" period. And can't wait to see people do a full 180 on Shon just like they did on the Odyssey. 6 months to a year from now, I bet people will stoutly DEFEND Shon as Captain, just as they all got past the rage of Ihle's design and are now flying the Odyssey that they love so much, even though thousands of poasters felt it was a garbage design and some other design "should have" won the contest.

    Off topic? Not at all. That IS the topic. How do people feel about Shon? Blind rage, just the way many felt about the Odyssey itself.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    nynik wrote:


    I expect that this is the case. Or should be. The captain has always been the central figure in trek who facilitates the means to illustrate what trek is all about. It illustrates different things to different people of course, but I think we could agree it has always tried to project human stories and interests and attitudes onto aliens/situations so that we can reflect upon them and find enlightenment or realisation to some degree about our own human nature.

    A completely alien Captain, even a humanoid, would really shake things up in that regard. I was reminded of this the other day when watching the Ensign Ro review by SFdebris on Ensign Ro. A character he called "alien" compared to the majority of the various others who were human, wanted to be human, or emulated human behavior in some way.

    SFdebris reference: http://sfdebris.com/startrek/t203.asp

    I'd really dig it if we could do something similar to the TAS episode "Yesteryear" or the TNG episode "Tapestry" with Shon to get to know his biography.

    I know there's a lot of time travel in STO but most of it is based around a mix of people messing with history and vintage TOS settings.

    I'd dig a more personal one that's about getting to know a character.

    I'd dig it especially if it's structured so that KDF get a corresponding mission.

    That said, I think to really sell the idea, it would help to have some kind of proper Galaxy, Sovereign, or Intrepid interiors, maybe a tweaked Starfleet Academy that's more TNG based. We don't ever go back to that era outside of one mission aboard the Saratoga and I'd guess that Shon is a man of that era. It'd be cool to have him as a cadet at Wolf 359 or during the Dominion War... and also let some of the Path to 2409 enter the game as more than text.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    superchum wrote: »
    How so? He's very combat ready like most of Starfleet in STO.

    Plus we haven't seen any real Andorians since Enterprise/TOS era, so they may still be deeply passionate and somewhat violent as they were back then. Shon himself isn't the issue though; it's the fact his character, and the rest of the Enterprise's, should have been built up more throughout this FE series.

    This may come with later FE's down the line, but with only two slated for this year so far it'll be a hell of a long wait until we get to know them better. And since that may be a year or two away, that is a major oversight in my opinion.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Amosov wrote:
    Plus we haven't seen any real Andorians since Enterprise/TOS era, so they may still be deeply passionate and somewhat violent as they were back then. Shon himself isn't the issue though; it's the fact his, and the rest of the Enterprise's characters should have been built up more throughout this FE series.

    This may come with later FE's down the line, but with only two slated for this year so far it'll be a hell of a long wait until we get to know them better. And since that may be a year or two away, that is a major oversight in my opinion.

    Very valid point about how there aren't going to be a lot of opportunities to fill his story in through missions.

    Still, they could get Kestrel to add a bunch of those data files/biography information to the Academy. Make it a new Academy Event, sort of a "get to know the Enterprise" course down there.

    Then get Heretic to do a new DOFF assignment chain that focuses on the Enterprise. Maybe have some sort of special reward that is a voiced over comm thingie for some of the bridge officers on the Enterprise.

    They've got ways of telling stories that focus on what they can put out these days since they stopped making missions of any consequence.

    ;)
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Well, Shons amazing background story is.... he is an Andorian and probably male....... :p
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Im looking forward to getting to know the man in upcoming content. I found him to be a good choice, just wondering if cryptic has the writing skill to make him appeal to the playerbase. He wont be able to match up to the great captains we have seen (and everybody holds a different one in spot 1 anyway) probably because he will be limited to a game. We can at least try and respect him.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    superchum wrote: »
    Very valid point about how there aren't going to be a lot of opportunities to fill his story in through missions.

    Still, they could get Kestrel to add a bunch of those data files/biography information to the Academy. Make it a new Academy Event, sort of a "get to know the Enterprise" course down there.

    Then get Heretic to do a new DOFF assignment chain that focuses on the Enterprise. Maybe have some sort of special reward that is a voiced over comm thingie for some of the bridge officers on the Enterprise.

    They've got ways of telling stories that focus on what they can put out these days since they stopped making missions of any consequence.

    ;)

    Yeah, that'd be good. Also, when they do any new trailers and blogs introducing us to new stories or events, I'm sure they'll use the Enterprise and her crew for that too.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Having watched, and re watched Enterprise, one of my favorite characters is Shran, one of the first Andorians encountered by humans. He became a reoccurring stitch in the fabric of that show, and the evolution of his alliance with Archer was pretty magic. Shon is much like him, and that makes me smile. I am glad he has the Enterprise.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Amosov wrote:
    Yeah, that'd be good. Also, when they do any new trailers and blogs introducing us to new stories or events, I'm sure they'll use the Enterprise and her crew for that too.

    Given that the trailer team is shared with other projects like Neverwinter, I think missions would be more likely than trailers... and I'm afraid the missions would likely be like the Academy daily.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    As the vast majority of you know by now, Captain Shon is occupying the center seat of the new Enterprise F. As depicted in the finale of "Boldly They Rode" (apologies for any spoilers, but I did decide to give a few days leadway before posting this to let others play through). Now, as the title sugests, what do we make of that?

    I personally love the guy. It's great to finally see a non-human Captain in that chair. (Note, yes I know, Data of the Enterprise E is not human either. The key word there was "see", as Data has as yet not been actually depicted visually as the Captain of the Ent E. Before any STO canon buffs start nomming on my face like Hannibal Lecter. :rolleyes: ) The latest STOked episode mentioned that many folks were "underwhelmed" by him, which I see little reason for. Sure, the guy is a relative unknown as of right now (which I suspect and hope will change), but he did only sacrifice the USS Belfast and nearly the lives of he and his crew as well for your characters direct benefit. What else could you really want?

    This guy is a nobody...no shining moments to earn this command...nothing outstanding...in fact we know him from missions where we save his ***. Not happy with a noboy commanding the most important ship in the fleet.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    N0vastar wrote:
    This guy is a nobody...no shining moments to earn this command...nothing outstanding...in fact we know him from missions where we save his ***. Not happy with a noboy commanding the most important ship in the fleet.
    But as was said above, Picard was a nobody that we'd never heard of either.

    The issue here is that we know nothing about Shon. We got to know Picard and his crew through the series, but he was certainly a dramatic change from Kirk. Can you imagine Kirk getting all warm and fuzzy over a space jellyfish? Kirk would be wanting to shoot it and Spock would be trying to talk him out of it. :)

    Unfortunately we're not going to see this character develop like we do the TV characters so we're never going to get a chance to like him.

    And one last thing, it's not like Picard never needed to be saved. :)
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Cosmic_One wrote: »
    But as was said above, Picard was a nobody that we'd never heard of either.

    The issue here is that we know nothing about Shon. We got to know Picard and his crew through the series, but he was certainly a dramatic change from Kirk. Can you imagine Kirk getting all warm and fuzzy over a space jellyfish? Kirk would be wanting to shoot it and Spock would be trying to talk him out of it. :)

    Unfortunately we're not going to see this character develop like we do the TV characters so we're never going to get a chance to like him.

    And one last thing, it's not like Picard never needed to be saved. :)

    Picard had the battle of maxia under his belt. the Stargazer command...who is Shon? nobody knows.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    N0vastar wrote:
    Picard had the battle of maxia under his belt. the Stargazer command...who is Shon? nobody knows.
    Did you know all of that in the first episode? No. That's my point.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    I like the fact that another founder species than human was choosen for this Enterprise, also since the show Enterprise I really like Andorians (wish the show would have been continued so that they had the chance to add more canon deepth to other "stock" species).

    As to Shon as person. Yeah... well... :confused::o

    I hope to see a few missions in the future which adds a bit of detail to him. Righ now, I like hes probably somebody to depend upon and takes action when needed.

    I WILL pay money to kill Shon. I hope he dies a horrible death.
    Cosmic_One wrote: »
    But as was said above, Picard was a nobody that we'd never heard of either.

    The issue here is that we know nothing about Shon. We got to know Picard and his crew through the series, but he was certainly a dramatic change from Kirk. Can you imagine Kirk getting all warm and fuzzy over a space jellyfish? Kirk would be wanting to shoot it and Spock would be trying to talk him out of it. :)

    Unfortunately we're not going to see this character develop like we do the TV characters so we're never going to get a chance to like him.

    And one last thing, it's not like Picard never needed to be saved. :)

    I'm going under the assumption that you mean the first TNG episode.

    In general, Picard WAS something, he was known for saving the Stargazer, which led to his prosperous future. Picard was such a better person than Shon will ever be....hell Archer (which I do actually like) was much better than Shon, even though Archer near the end of the show became more agressive he had a reason....his planet was about to be destroyed and he was tired of the TRIBBLE he had to deal with.
    Cosmic_One wrote: »
    Did you know all of that in the first episode? No. That's my point.

    Shon is the poorly skilled captain who has lost a ship, poorly portrayed Federation standards in a vital negotiation......and given command of THE Enterprise....


    Cryptic: Nerfing all that is Star Trek sinse Feb, 2010
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    N0vastar wrote:
    Picard had the battle of maxia under his belt. the Stargazer command...who is Shon? nobody knows.

    Shon was captain of the Belfast.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    I'm going under the assumption that you mean the first TNG episode.
    Yes. The backstory was filled in later, over 7 years.
    Shon is the poorly skilled captain who has lost a ship, poorly portrayed Federation standards in a vital negotiation......and given command of THE Enterprise....
    Picard lost his ship and was given command of the Enterprise. Maybe losing a ship is the criteria for Ent command. :)
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Simply put..Shon is an Idiot...and well Cryptictrek seems to enjoy putting Idiots in command of vital locations and starships, so I have no doubt we will need to save the enterprise someday!
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Cosmic_One wrote: »
    Yes. The backstory was filled in later, over 7 years.


    Picard lost his ship and was given command of the Enterprise. Maybe losing a ship is the criteria for Ent command. :)

    Are you speaking of the Enterprise D?
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Are you speaking of the Enterprise D?
    Yes. The D was the next ship Picard got after losing the Stargazer.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Shon is the poorly skilled captain who has lost a ship, poorly portrayed Federation standards in a vital negotiation......and given command of THE Enterprise....

    Seriously? Wait a moment.
    1. Sisko was a no name Commander on a little stupid Miranda class starship and got on DS9 and gained respect and experience over the course of a boring space station full of whiny bajorans.

    2. Picard was a no name before he got the command of the Enterprise. He was even court martialed after the Stargazer accident. He was given the command over the Enterprise and made quite a profile in Starfleet over the years.

    3. Janeway was a no name captain and showed skill when her ship faced a desastrous future... I don't care about Voyager haters, but she did quite a hell of a job out. Alone, when no single help was in sight. Over their 7 years journey she prooved herself more than worthy and skilled.

    4. Archer got his seat only because of his father's involement in the Warp Drive Project...He gained reputation and experience over the 4 years in command...


    See? It is all about getting a chance to prove yourself. Picard, Archer, Sisko, Janeway and yeah even Kirk got more than once chance to prove themselves and they did. The list of captains goes on and on.

    Shon may have lost the Belfast or it ended up heavily damaged, but don't forget that Picard lost 2. Kirk lost his ship. etc.

    Give the blue man a chance to prove himself. All this "I hate the captain of the Enterprise being a non human" is very biased. Stay open guys. Star Trek was all about openness and tolerance before some $$$ addicted persons decided to turn it into the opposite.

    I love Shon being a highlighted captain at least in a non canon ST timeline. If there is one flaw, it is the flaw of Cryptic having him and the Enterprise squeezed and introduced in a so limited way.
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