The thing is, none of the incarnations of the Starship Enterprise have been "warships".
Were pretty much looking at a versitile ship of exploration that can easily reconfigure itself for multiple roles, none of them being a frontline battleship, as it should be.
did some one say "Sovereign" Enterprise-E wuss a warship threw and threw:)
Id rather them get rid of the universal ensign and combine it with the Lieutenant Science to make a Lieutenant Commander science but that will never happen
It needs a 3rd tactical console slot.as like the galaxy retrofit I have a concern in pve Borg runs it may lack a punch hat the galaxy x and sovereign and xclsior can deliver
For someone advocating diversity, you have a fine way of belittling the gameplay interests of others.
So, my Lance exists to mine ore from asteroids? My Tricobalts exist for a fireworks display on the 4th of July? My Cloak exists so I can extend my lunch hour by an extra five minutes without my fleet admiral finding out?
Yeah, that makes sense...
On a more serious note, the Defiant was created as a war ship. The Galaxy, the original epitome of an exploration vessel, was refitted for no other purpose than to wage war, to add these weapons to its arsenal and making into a devastating warship by design.
The USA is a peacekeeping and humanitarian armed force, believe it or not.
Our Navy is still built first and foremost to wage war, however.
I enjoy PvP. You don't? Fine. But if I want to classify my ship as a warship and blow people up in PvP with it in the fashion I choose, that is my free reign. I enjoy Naval combat, and the depth it brings to the table.
You want to blow the same Tac Cube up in KA for the 50,000,000,000th time, that's yours.
Besides... need I remind you, for your canon-worship, Starfleet is currently at war. Has been for several years. In a time of peace, our Navy performs humanitarian duties (saving the lives of the recent Iran fishermen for example).
What does Starfleet do in a time of war against the Klingons in modern warfare? Refer to Yesterday's Enterprise, depicting that exact scenario. Allow me to quote... "Military Log, Combat date: ..." "Children aboard the Enterprise? Ghinan, we're at war!" ... "The Enterprise-C, the immediate predecessor to this Battleship."
In times of war, those very same ships that perform services of great good outside of combat, are expected to perform lethally. They become warships.
Every trailer you find of the game, every broadcast of gameplay, has touted space combat. This must be because my Lance exists to blast the enemies of the Federation with flowers and doves, right?
Forgive my impertinence, for I am a noob (to the game, but not canon), I have read many of your posts, you are one of the forum's most valued contributors from what I can tell, and I respect you greatly, however, I must ask you...
I don't see anything in your post above that is valid in response to the other poster's assertion that the Enterprise is, was and always will be NOT a warship. Doesn't matter what you want to use it for, the Enterprise flagship as an assault vessel is just wrong. The federation is not a 'conquering' power. The Federation has always fought more firepower with more shields.
Canon even goes out of its way to establish that militarism is 'anti-star trek', by having mirror universes in almost every Star Trek show, in which the mirror crews are depicted as militaristic and inherently EVIL for being so.
You can quote a few episodes where the necessity of war has necessitated creation of attack ships (ala defiant), and altered the role of many ships to become warships (hell if we follow this, we might as well say that Voyager is an attack vessel, she saw as much fighting as any ship in the fleet and came through it) but to use those quotes in order to justify the federation flagship being an attack ship amounts to abuse of statistics and data and would be counter to canon. As is, the new Ent F follows established canon beautifully imo. Lot's of defense so that Picard has time to negotiate a peaceful solution.
Which brings me to...those saying we need firepower to compete with the KDF flagship. Again, wrong. What do you fight fire with in reality? Water. The Ent-F is the Water to the KDF's fire.
Seems to me like all is well with starfleets ship designers.
It needs a 3rd tactical console slot.as like the galaxy retrofit I have a concern in pve Borg runs it may lack a punch hat the galaxy x and sovereign and xclsior can deliver
That is biggest problem I see for the Odyssey at the moment. But I was expecting something like this.
After all, Crypitc wants to sell the C-Store version from the Odyssey as well, so i believe the Pay-to-Win version of this ship will have something like that.
did some one say "Sovereign" Enterprise-E wuss a warship threw and threw:)
Incorrect, She was a vessel of exploration with shaper teeth, a necessity in waking up to a more dangerous universe than before.
Starfleet has only designed two "warships", the Defiant and the Prometheus.
I'm starting to think that the Odyssey's problem is less its investment in science console slots... and more in the game not making it feel like dabbling in science for a cruiser is worthwhile.
I mean, the bortaS is clearly a beast... but imagine a scenario where the bortaS prepares for an alpha strike, uncloaks and starts laying down the firepower on an Odyssey cruiser only to realize that the Odyssey's player heard the telltale sound of cannon powers activating before the cloak was disengaged and slapped down Feedback Pulse 2.
All that buttload of damage the bortaS spews out ends up creating damaging feedback. I know my escort has to be very wary of NPC Galors because they use Feedback pulse and if I'm not careful it can mean 50% of my hull being gone if I just keep hammering at it. All that offense from the bortaS could very well be a weapon turned against it this way ...via an omnidirectional science power.
Jam Sensors in turn is also omnidirectional, and could be used to stave off attack from the bortaS/gain some breathing room.
Tractor Beam is also omnidirectional and could help, but then again Tractor Beam has never been very console reliant.
When you think about it... the Odyssey is a bit of a cruiser-equivalent for the Nebula-class if its outfitted for science powers. In that light... the Nebula finds ways to manage despite its poor turn rate (for a science ship). Would the Odyssey not be capable of sharing similar success somehow?
Gald to see I am not the only one thinking that. And if you get a tracker beam that you can hold the ship. your side defiants could decloak and open fire on the know unshield bortaS
Of course it would be nice if the Oddessy could equip science ship and engineer special consoles.
Like wise the bortas should be able to equip the cruiser and DPS consoles from KDF side.
Same turn rate as the Dreadnought, problem is that the Dreadnought at least has the raw punch power (3x Tac Consoles, cloak, and lance) to tip that balance.
This ship has no "decisive punch" power. It has the same weapon capabilities as the Excelsior but half the speed and about a 10% defensive increase. The Universal BOFFs are nice in respect to a Tactical, but not enough to warrant that loss.
imho, you want an offensive cruiser, grab the Gal-X or Excelsior. You will have a significant advantage.
As I've said in many other posts, this ship would make a fantastic healer however.
With the turn rate issue, if you toss in a couple of beam arrays, and use some turn modifying consoles, you're set. I'm currently a Captain, but I use 1 retrofit forward scaling blue phaser beam array, 1 dual plasma array, 1 dual tetryon array, and 1 quantum torpedo launcher for my forward weapons. While for my aft I use 1 retrofit scaling blue phaser array, 2 plasma arrays, and 1 rear plasma torpedo. Simply put, I prefer beams to cannons. I'll most likely outfit my Odyssey with a total of 6 beam arrays and 2 torpedos. While using some engineering slots to buff my turn, and shields, tactical for strengthening my beams and torpedos, and science for boosting my sensors and abilities. I'll probably go into the market for a cloaking device sometime as well. If I can.
Enterprise E was built to be a Warship. the sov class in gen was it has the most advance weaps upgraded shields and came with a skelly crew (No fam on board) Watch the movies in STO nothing works out like is shown in the films or shows.
I do hope that they make a another movie with the E in it and blow it up to make a F because im sure the people are paramount can come up with a hell of alot better ship design then a knock off of the Enterprise E with a BLOATED look.
Wow, lots of people to respond to after a day's work. Nothing wrong with that.
I suppose I should clarify... I am not a religious canon fanatic. I follow and enjoy the Star Trek storyline, but I also take to account that this is a game environment and must make concessions.
I have not, am not, and will not notate the Enterprise as a warship. I'm not that stupid.
My ship? Hell f***ing yes, it's a warship. I do nothing but blast things away. I ignore quests, I ignore exploration... hell, I ignore anything that doesn't involve me pointing my Lance at something and giggling like a little schoolgirl seeing her first boy get his pants dropped by the local bully every time I hit the "Fire" button.
I giggle even more when the enemies get revived, screaming at their teams because they underestimated this ship that used to be to them the laughing stock of the game, that just killed them by itself in about 3 seconds.
I then giggle yet moreso as all of them focus me not because it is sound strategy (there are far squishier targets than me in PvP), but out of sheer rage and humiliation (and of course, fear).
Every notation I make is based on its PvP versatility. I speak these points based on personal experience, which (whether you like it or not) is vast.
Particularly in the lineup of cruiser PvP tactics and builds.
A good Australian man above quoted me nicely and made sound judgement in my statements. I fight differently than most cruisers. I tank ONLY when necessary, mostly using Sniper or Shark tactics as I call them. Fire (and subsequently almost always instantly kill), and move. Recloak, and do it again while providing LIGHT support to my allies.
The Odyssey is a COMPLETELY different boat.
Those tactics are not valid.
I stated by personal experience and opinion what I believe the ship would excel at. Whether you adhere my advice or not is your choice. I don't care.
You shouldn't either.
Many told me the Galaxy-X is horrible. Many STILL tell me that.
Enterprise E was built to be a Warship. the sov class in gen was it has the most advance weaps upgraded shields and came with a skelly crew (No fam on board) Watch the movies in STO nothing works out like is shown in the films or shows.
I do hope that they make a another movie with the E in it and blow it up to make a F because im sure the people are paramount can come up with a hell of alot better ship design then a knock off of the Enterprise E with a BLOATED look.
Having no families aboard isn't the same thing as a skeleton crew. In fact, the only ship that, in canon, carried large numbers of families and civilians aboard was, insofar as I remember, the Galaxy-class. And yes, the removal of families, as well as the improved shields and weapons systems made it more capable in combat, but consider the times; Starfleet was staring a war with the Dominion in the face. The Klingons had only recently re-signed the Khitomer Accords. And there was still the shadow of the Borg looming over everything.
But "Starfleet's mission has always been one of peace," as a famous Vulcan once said. The Enterprise - or any Federation starship, for that matter - would always be a ship of exlporation and peacekeeping first, and a combat vessel a distant second. Yes, even the Defiant - in the Deep Space Nine books, the Defiant recieved a refit to give it more science capability and sent on a three-month (I think) exploration cruise in the Gamma Quadrant. And even before then, in the series proper the Defiant would perform more exploration-type missions before the Dominion War started.
So yes, Federation starships are capable in combat. Yes, Starfleet officers train in tactics as much as science. Because Starfleet is a military organization - albeit one with a much wider mandate than any military organization in modern times. (There are some minor parallels one could draw between Starfleet and the colonial era British military, but they'd be imperfect at best.) And Starfleet does have ships more suited for combat than others - as in every ship classified as an escort in the game. But the heart of Starfleet is in its exploration arm, and the Enterprise, and especially this Enterprise, to my mind at least, is an example of that mission.
I fly Star Cruisers, escorts and recon science and I think the Odyssey is not disappointing at all. In fact I think is Boff configs most of us wanted anyways. Its a versatile supertank its all in what powers you load up with it that matter.
Take a look at the stats for KDF flagship. " 4 " tactical consoles. Clearly overpowered beyond hell with that.
+15 to weapons, same deal.
Good luck trying to out dps that kind of firepower with only 2 energy consoles or 1 energy console and 1 torpedo console cause it will never happen.
Science consoles suck now ever since the nerf. So having 3 let alone 6 if it were possible wouldn't do this ship any justice.
Stop making support ships for the Federation Cryptic. We need some FIREPOWER for once.
u mean you're threatened by that ship due to the stats on it and want it nerfed even though IT HAS lower stats compared to the odyssey . This is what fed balance at it's finest nerf every competition so we can have OP ships.
I fly Star Cruisers, escorts and recon science and I think the Odyssey is not disappointing at all. In fact I think is Boff configs most of us wanted anyways. Its a versatile supertank its all in what powers you load up with it that matter.
Enterprise E was built to be a Warship. the sov class in gen was it has the most advance weaps upgraded shields and came with a skelly crew (No fam on board) Watch the movies in STO nothing works out like is shown in the films or shows.
I do hope that they make a another movie with the E in it and blow it up to make a F because im sure the people are paramount can come up with a hell of alot better ship design then a knock off of the Enterprise E with a BLOATED look.
I think most of us have watched the movies.
Aside from the line that the Enterprise-E was the most advaced ship in the fleet there is nothing ever said anywhere you claim was said.
As for the lack of families: The Enterprise-C had none either, does this qualify her as a warship?
This isn't really an arguement of canon, or weather or not the flagship is a warship... It's that some people are dissapointed that the new ship is a heal/support boat in most cases, or as a decoy so that the other ships better suited to tac can ram attacks up the opposing fleet's impulse engines.
This isn't really an arguement of canon, or weather or not the flagship is a warship... It's that some people are dissapointed that the new ship is a heal/support boat in most cases, or as a decoy so that the other ships better suited to tac can ram attacks up the opposing fleet's impulse engines.
The problem Cryptic faces in this game is an odd one:
When I last looke at the description the Star Cruiser (admittedly it's been a while) it said those ships could serve as flagships.
Problem in this game is that flagships should offer better coordination and command for a squadron or fleet.
Several games (either tabletop or MMO) usually give such units some kind of command bonus, beginning with such mundane things like command auras for MMO chars and going further with enhanced initiative for ships in the same squadron in military tabletops.
Problem is there are no such command abilities in this game.
So how to reflect the command functions of such a ship?
There are currently little alternatives to "blue slots".
u mean you're threatened by that ship due to the stats on it and want it nerfed even though IT HAS lower stats compared to the odyssey . This is what fed balance at it's finest nerf every competition so we can have OP ships.
52% more firepower, 1k more hull, standard shield system grid, -0.5 turn rate > -52% firepower, 1k less hull, 15% stronger shield system grid, +0.5 turn rate.
What needs to happen for the consoles is that they be swtiched to 4 eng, 3 tact, 2 science. We do not need a tankier version of the star cruiser because the current version fits it perfectly fine for the role. Why change what works?
I presume this is supposed to mean something, but could please expand that a bit because this is so short it would probably take too long to figure out what you actually mean and then with a hughe risk of missing the point due to a disintct lack of indictors where to go.
You feds are disgusting. You have the lions share of content, constantly getting bug fixes and new items that far exceed KDF content.
Cryptic has practically GIVEN us two new state of the art ships for rank 5 based on the respective faction's ethos.
Federation, peaceful explorers(who are meddling ****s) and humanitarians
Klingon Empire, Warrior, expansionists, conquerors and imperialists.
Both factions have their own style of ship construction if you don't like the "Peaceful explorer" idea and you want a more aggressive ship.
52% more firepower, 1k more hull, standard shield system grid, -0.5 turn rate > -52% firepower, 1k less hull, 15% stronger shield system grid, +0.5 turn rate.
What needs to happen for the consoles is that they be swtiched to 4 eng, 3 tact, 2 science. We do not need a tankier version of the star cruiser because the current version fits it perfectly fine for the role. Why change what works?
Problem solved. Nuff said.
52% I DARE YOU to back that statement up with facts. You cant and most likely WONT. 2 tac consoles = 52% more damage LOL.
Enterprise E was built to be a Warship. the sov class in gen was it has the most advance weaps upgraded shields and came with a skelly crew (No fam on board) Watch the movies in STO nothing works out like is shown in the films or shows.
Incorrect, She was a vessel of exploration with shaper teeth, a necessity in waking up to a more dangerous universe than before.
Starfleet has only designed two "warships", the Defiant and the Prometheus.
52% I DARE YOU to back that statement up with facts. You cant and most likely WONT. 2 tac consoles = 52% more damage LOL.
Again base equipment mechanics. 52% = 200-250 with energy based weapons. Now that I have backed it up. It doesn't equal exactly 52% due to DR. Now that I have backed up because I can, have and will, stop trolling. So I DARE you to prove me wrong...provided you have any clue of what I'm talking about.
Comments
Forgive my impertinence, for I am a noob (to the game, but not canon), I have read many of your posts, you are one of the forum's most valued contributors from what I can tell, and I respect you greatly, however, I must ask you...
I don't see anything in your post above that is valid in response to the other poster's assertion that the Enterprise is, was and always will be NOT a warship. Doesn't matter what you want to use it for, the Enterprise flagship as an assault vessel is just wrong. The federation is not a 'conquering' power. The Federation has always fought more firepower with more shields.
Canon even goes out of its way to establish that militarism is 'anti-star trek', by having mirror universes in almost every Star Trek show, in which the mirror crews are depicted as militaristic and inherently EVIL for being so.
You can quote a few episodes where the necessity of war has necessitated creation of attack ships (ala defiant), and altered the role of many ships to become warships (hell if we follow this, we might as well say that Voyager is an attack vessel, she saw as much fighting as any ship in the fleet and came through it) but to use those quotes in order to justify the federation flagship being an attack ship amounts to abuse of statistics and data and would be counter to canon. As is, the new Ent F follows established canon beautifully imo. Lot's of defense so that Picard has time to negotiate a peaceful solution.
Which brings me to...those saying we need firepower to compete with the KDF flagship. Again, wrong. What do you fight fire with in reality? Water. The Ent-F is the Water to the KDF's fire.
Seems to me like all is well with starfleets ship designers.
That is biggest problem I see for the Odyssey at the moment. But I was expecting something like this.
After all, Crypitc wants to sell the C-Store version from the Odyssey as well, so i believe the Pay-to-Win version of this ship will have something like that.
Incorrect, She was a vessel of exploration with shaper teeth, a necessity in waking up to a more dangerous universe than before.
Starfleet has only designed two "warships", the Defiant and the Prometheus.
Gald to see I am not the only one thinking that. And if you get a tracker beam that you can hold the ship. your side defiants could decloak and open fire on the know unshield bortaS
Of course it would be nice if the Oddessy could equip science ship and engineer special consoles.
Like wise the bortas should be able to equip the cruiser and DPS consoles from KDF side.
With the turn rate issue, if you toss in a couple of beam arrays, and use some turn modifying consoles, you're set. I'm currently a Captain, but I use 1 retrofit forward scaling blue phaser beam array, 1 dual plasma array, 1 dual tetryon array, and 1 quantum torpedo launcher for my forward weapons. While for my aft I use 1 retrofit scaling blue phaser array, 2 plasma arrays, and 1 rear plasma torpedo. Simply put, I prefer beams to cannons. I'll most likely outfit my Odyssey with a total of 6 beam arrays and 2 torpedos. While using some engineering slots to buff my turn, and shields, tactical for strengthening my beams and torpedos, and science for boosting my sensors and abilities. I'll probably go into the market for a cloaking device sometime as well. If I can.
I do hope that they make a another movie with the E in it and blow it up to make a F because im sure the people are paramount can come up with a hell of alot better ship design then a knock off of the Enterprise E with a BLOATED look.
I suppose I should clarify... I am not a religious canon fanatic. I follow and enjoy the Star Trek storyline, but I also take to account that this is a game environment and must make concessions.
I have not, am not, and will not notate the Enterprise as a warship. I'm not that stupid.
My ship? Hell f***ing yes, it's a warship. I do nothing but blast things away. I ignore quests, I ignore exploration... hell, I ignore anything that doesn't involve me pointing my Lance at something and giggling like a little schoolgirl seeing her first boy get his pants dropped by the local bully every time I hit the "Fire" button.
I giggle even more when the enemies get revived, screaming at their teams because they underestimated this ship that used to be to them the laughing stock of the game, that just killed them by itself in about 3 seconds.
I then giggle yet moreso as all of them focus me not because it is sound strategy (there are far squishier targets than me in PvP), but out of sheer rage and humiliation (and of course, fear).
Every notation I make is based on its PvP versatility. I speak these points based on personal experience, which (whether you like it or not) is vast.
Particularly in the lineup of cruiser PvP tactics and builds.
A good Australian man above quoted me nicely and made sound judgement in my statements. I fight differently than most cruisers. I tank ONLY when necessary, mostly using Sniper or Shark tactics as I call them. Fire (and subsequently almost always instantly kill), and move. Recloak, and do it again while providing LIGHT support to my allies.
The Odyssey is a COMPLETELY different boat.
Those tactics are not valid.
I stated by personal experience and opinion what I believe the ship would excel at. Whether you adhere my advice or not is your choice. I don't care.
You shouldn't either.
Many told me the Galaxy-X is horrible. Many STILL tell me that.
Until I 1-shot them.
Having no families aboard isn't the same thing as a skeleton crew. In fact, the only ship that, in canon, carried large numbers of families and civilians aboard was, insofar as I remember, the Galaxy-class. And yes, the removal of families, as well as the improved shields and weapons systems made it more capable in combat, but consider the times; Starfleet was staring a war with the Dominion in the face. The Klingons had only recently re-signed the Khitomer Accords. And there was still the shadow of the Borg looming over everything.
But "Starfleet's mission has always been one of peace," as a famous Vulcan once said. The Enterprise - or any Federation starship, for that matter - would always be a ship of exlporation and peacekeeping first, and a combat vessel a distant second. Yes, even the Defiant - in the Deep Space Nine books, the Defiant recieved a refit to give it more science capability and sent on a three-month (I think) exploration cruise in the Gamma Quadrant. And even before then, in the series proper the Defiant would perform more exploration-type missions before the Dominion War started.
So yes, Federation starships are capable in combat. Yes, Starfleet officers train in tactics as much as science. Because Starfleet is a military organization - albeit one with a much wider mandate than any military organization in modern times. (There are some minor parallels one could draw between Starfleet and the colonial era British military, but they'd be imperfect at best.) And Starfleet does have ships more suited for combat than others - as in every ship classified as an escort in the game. But the heart of Starfleet is in its exploration arm, and the Enterprise, and especially this Enterprise, to my mind at least, is an example of that mission.
u mean you're threatened by that ship due to the stats on it and want it nerfed even though IT HAS lower stats compared to the odyssey . This is what fed balance at it's finest nerf every competition so we can have OP ships.
+1. Sick avatar btw.
I think most of us have watched the movies.
Aside from the line that the Enterprise-E was the most advaced ship in the fleet there is nothing ever said anywhere you claim was said.
As for the lack of families: The Enterprise-C had none either, does this qualify her as a warship?
Also, "The Path to 2409: 2385"
The flagship of Starfleet is not a warship
any more questions?
The problem Cryptic faces in this game is an odd one:
When I last looke at the description the Star Cruiser (admittedly it's been a while) it said those ships could serve as flagships.
Problem in this game is that flagships should offer better coordination and command for a squadron or fleet.
Several games (either tabletop or MMO) usually give such units some kind of command bonus, beginning with such mundane things like command auras for MMO chars and going further with enhanced initiative for ships in the same squadron in military tabletops.
Problem is there are no such command abilities in this game.
So how to reflect the command functions of such a ship?
There are currently little alternatives to "blue slots".
52% more firepower, 1k more hull, standard shield system grid, -0.5 turn rate > -52% firepower, 1k less hull, 15% stronger shield system grid, +0.5 turn rate.
What needs to happen for the consoles is that they be swtiched to 4 eng, 3 tact, 2 science. We do not need a tankier version of the star cruiser because the current version fits it perfectly fine for the role. Why change what works?
Problem solved. Nuff said.
Mechanic Equipment Base.
I presume this is supposed to mean something, but could please expand that a bit because this is so short it would probably take too long to figure out what you actually mean and then with a hughe risk of missing the point due to a disintct lack of indictors where to go.
Cryptic has practically GIVEN us two new state of the art ships for rank 5 based on the respective faction's ethos.
Federation, peaceful explorers(who are meddling ****s) and humanitarians
Klingon Empire, Warrior, expansionists, conquerors and imperialists.
Both factions have their own style of ship construction if you don't like the "Peaceful explorer" idea and you want a more aggressive ship.
ROLL KDF.
52% I DARE YOU to back that statement up with facts. You cant and most likely WONT. 2 tac consoles = 52% more damage LOL.
Exactly. LOL at people thinking +26% console increases your DPS by 26%. No wonder the flood of tears in the forums.
This is wrong!
This is right!
Again base equipment mechanics. 52% = 200-250 with energy based weapons. Now that I have backed it up. It doesn't equal exactly 52% due to DR. Now that I have backed up because I can, have and will, stop trolling. So I DARE you to prove me wrong...provided you have any clue of what I'm talking about.
Torp consoles are not into the equation.
You really have no idea how base mechanics & and equipment DR work....do you?
Of course not. It's not like I ran actual tests with actual consoles. /doublefacepalm