ITT: People yelling at a dev making him not want to post anymore. Then, when devs post less, the same people will complain about lack of dev communication.
Here is the problem. Implementing anything that greatly impacts player mobility can have unintended consequences down the road.
What happens if you use the frosted boots on Hobus, where the gravity for the planet is below normal 1 G? (Go try it!)
That may not break that particular mission, but it must be a consideration elsewhere. Similar issues crop up for things like rocket boots -- if the player can fly anywhere, what stops them from just flying over encounters in a mission to reach the end? If we have a mission where the player must reach X location in Y amount of time, how does this affect the mission difficulty (since the frosted boots make you move faster)? Does this make it too easy or too hard for players to outrun enemies?
Any item that implements a new power, especially something that impacts movement, can impact a host of factors that affect mission design and thus requires careful consideration.
i would rather be able to skate for 1-10 minutes and have a 30-1 hour cooldown.
that way everyone does actually win.
That would work, too. Or make the effect non-combat only, or social-map only, or any number of other things. I'm just most excited by the costume piece, is all.
But point is, I suppose--there are lots of ways to make this both non-consumable AND non-potentially gamebreaking.
Here is the problem. Implementing anything that greatly impacts player mobility can have unintended consequences down the road.
What happens if you use the frosted boots on Hobus, where the gravity for the planet is below normal 1 G? (Go try it!)
That may not break that particular mission, but it must be a consideration elsewhere. Similar issues crop up for things like rocket boots -- if the player can fly anywhere, what stops them from just flying over encounters in a mission to reach the end? If we have a mission where the player must reach X location in Y amount of time, how does this affect the mission difficulty (since the frosted boots make you move faster)? Does this make it too easy or too hard for players to outrun enemies?
Any item that implements a new power, especially something that impacts movement, can impact a host of factors that affect mission design and thus requires careful consideration.
WOW some actual in-depth reasoning...thanks its really appreciated. but is there no work around to this at all?
like...making "slide" affect only usable while out of combat, or only on certain planets/bases?
Hobus is a good example for both aspects. I highly doubt flying high enough will do much, as the game maps are full of invisible walls and ceilings. Skipping enemies I can't see being a problem unless it's a mission design problem. There are things like Stealth for example that could easily allow me to sneak by a group of enemies. However, almost all missions require me to kill that squad in order to advance the objectives.
So... I drop by and tell you exactly what train of thought led to a certain design decision, and get accused of lying. Awesome.
If you have an alternative suggestion to the current mechanics, and can manage to propose it in a constructive way, I'm open to listening to it.
I don't think you're lying, I think that's a prefectly resonable explanation. But with that said maybe it would be possible that after the 30 hours you could only use them in social zones, such as ESD, DS9, or even just on Andoria would make sense, I think skateing around all the blue guys would be fun. Atleast it's kind of a compromise.
Why can't you simply lock the boots activation out of all mission maps and only allow them to be used in social zones? Which is like the opposite of what you do with some powers that have caused issues in the past.
Alternatively work on some code that will lock out the activation of the boots on any map that the player enters which is associated with a mission / objective in the journal.
Just some ideas to consider, I understand the reasoning behind the decision but the boots really are awesome fun for social zones and hard work to get, I don't have them but hope to get them. However now I'm aware of them being on a timer, I probably wont bother, just as when I learnt that Holographic Ship console things that you can purchase with GPL have a timer of 15 minutes, I never bothered with them and never will because it's a waster of resources.
Why can't you simply lock the boots activation out of all mission maps and only allow them to be used in social zones? Which is like the opposite of what you do with some powers that have caused issues in the past.
Alternatively work on some code that will lock out the activation of the boots on any map that the player enters which is associated with a mission / objective in the journal.
Every zone in the game has missions, so it can't be categorically turned off in that type of area.
Assigning areas as off-limits is a manual process that would need to be created on a per-map basis. Meaning all old content would need to be updated to include the off-limits qualifier.
It's also a simple matter of ease-of-use, and not confusing players. Why can I use them on Earth Spacedock, but not while running a mission on DS9? Why do they work in this old mission, but not this new one? Etc.
Every zone in the game has missions, so it can't be categorically turned off in that type of area.
Assigning areas as off-limits is a manual process that would need to be created on a per-map basis. Meaning all old content would need to be updated to include the off-limits qualifier.
It's also a simple matter of ease-of-use, and not confusing players. Why can I use them on Earth Spacedock, but not while running a mission on DS9? Why do they work in this old mission, but not this new one? Etc.
Okay, valid reasons. What about the time limit + cooldown, or non-combat only, or only the frost effect being "consumable" and the boots remaining visually? Seems like the last would be easiest, though admittedly not ideal--just attach a costume piece unlock to the current item and voila. Though perhaps the time limit/cooldown would just require a quick change of some numbers...?
Right thanks for the quick response, I suppose if you do include Foundry missions every single map in game does have a mission, but what I was thinking if possible, was that the lockout could be applied if and only when a player has a mission in his/her journal.
So for example you go to the Social (invasion) zone on Defera Prime and have no mission in your journal for that map so you can use the boots, then the event activates, you pick up a mission in that map which then goes in your journal and boots are locked out of play.
Complicated, and time consuming I have no doubts but effective and in the long run it would allow you to add cool new items like Rocket Boots, or whatever else you like to change how gameplay normally goes.
Here's another thought as a compromise for those players who want to really badly use the boots, add to a vendor recharge packs for the boots at a high dilithium cost.
Btw, I've read about the issues raised which inevitably caused the decision to be made to implement the timer, but I don't see how the timer prevents players from using the boots in missions, allowing them to use the boots to assist them skipping to objectives or getting things done faster than normal.
However I may have missed something, I'm just trying to help constructively with what's above. I'm really happy with the event and rewards, think you've done a great job. Always going to get some negative feedback from masses of players when they get something new that they have no info on, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, changes can still be made as they have done in the past, but it's really important to not add anything that will effect the long term design of missions, that the point, right?
why not just add something to the boots "requires Social Zone" Then add "Social Zone" Things to the areas that it can be used it. These things are awesome but really need to be made unlimited.
I haven't seen the snow boots but are they really all that awesome? I mean the devs have already done a great job letting us know the problems with keeping the boots around. We all know how long it takes Cryptic to release anything so how about we let the devs focus on getting us new suff rather then keep hounding them to fix some boots.
If the boots do look different then my 2 cents could be to just remove the boost from the boots when F2P shows up and let folks keep them as a cosmetic items only. We get to keep the scarfs so how about we keep the boots as well.
I would like it if I could at least put them on via the tailor. It's ok if the 'magic' wears off eventually... I just want the patent-leather boots like the fat-man in the red suit wears.
To be as blunt as possible. These boots do for me what SlipSctream did for everyone who plays STO. It offers a slightly quicker way to get around at times. However, the boots go a step further and also had a slight fun element to movement so I'd really like to see these stay. STO has changed a lot with this F2P build. I'm sure the dev team could work this in as being a permanent item with not too much of a hassle. So... Instead of me ranting about something Cryptic has done absolutely wrong (and I will spare the examples). Please allow us to keep such a fun item and not have it disappear after 30 hours use. Your team can make it happen and make a lot of people that are going to enjoy these boots much happier if you decide that they won't be consumed after 30 hours use.
Here is the problem. Implementing anything that greatly impacts player mobility can have unintended consequences down the road.
What happens if you use the frosted boots on Hobus, where the gravity for the planet is below normal 1 G? (Go try it!)
That may not break that particular mission, but it must be a consideration elsewhere. Similar issues crop up for things like rocket boots -- if the player can fly anywhere, what stops them from just flying over encounters in a mission to reach the end? If we have a mission where the player must reach X location in Y amount of time, how does this affect the mission difficulty (since the frosted boots make you move faster)? Does this make it too easy or too hard for players to outrun enemies?
Any item that implements a new power, especially something that impacts movement, can impact a host of factors that affect mission design and thus requires careful consideration.
Ever had the ghost costume in WoW's Halloween event?
It causes you to fly at a maximum normal jump height and disables jumping.
I think rocket boots should just do that. And then have vertical layout missions where you get a boost specific to that mission that allows you to do full flight.
If in deed they do go poof that is a really poor idea... they didnt show such consideration for the cryo grenade until several months later. Which also means I wasted about 2$ for something that will go away in a little over a day.
The Frosted Boots are a toggle ability with 30 hours of use on them. You don't only get them for 30 hours, but can only have them active for a total of 30 hours. They are not active while you are in space, and should automatically turn off each time you change instances.
30 hours is a surprisingly long time, for most people. But if you're the type that likes to do laps at ESD with this frosty footwear active, it might not feel as long for you.
The primary reason for giving these items a use timer was to prevent the need to design all future content and systems around their availability in-game. Take the TR-116 Rifle as an example of a game-altering mechanic that potentially sidesteps design decisions.
Although it may not seem like much, a lack of traction and runspeed boost could have an impact on the design of future content, as well as existing designs. The decision to limit their use was made to help limit this impact.
Having said all that, I'm still taking your feedback into consideration.
(PS - scarfs are indeed permanent unlocks.)
That does make sense. I feel better about the boots now, thanks.
So... I drop by and tell you exactly what train of thought led to a certain design decision, and get accused of lying. Awesome
says the guy that claims having an item for 30 hours is a long time. it isn't and it defeats the purpose of making the effort to get it in the first place
maybe if someone, or yourself could explain in detail as to what makes this so bad that would be great?
becasue as it stands if it really does impact that game as you say it does, why go ahead and make them in the first place?
this. they're boots. as aeleys said, if they're such a big problem why make them in the first place.
Here is the problem. Implementing anything that greatly impacts player mobility can have unintended consequences down the road.
What happens if you use the frosted boots on Hobus, where the gravity for the planet is below normal 1 G? (Go try it!)
That may not break that particular mission, but it must be a consideration elsewhere. Similar issues crop up for things like rocket boots -- if the player can fly anywhere, what stops them from just flying over encounters in a mission to reach the end? If we have a mission where the player must reach X location in Y amount of time, how does this affect the mission difficulty (since the frosted boots make you move faster)? Does this make it too easy or too hard for players to outrun enemies?
Any item that implements a new power, especially something that impacts movement, can impact a host of factors that affect mission design and thus requires careful consideration.
*facepalm*
again, if its such a big issue clearly it shouldn't have been added to the game in the first place
Every zone in the game has missions, so it can't be categorically turned off in that type of area.
eh? it can by implementing a check using simple boolean arguments. you know, as in a mission is either active at the time or it isn't. if it is, the special mechanics of the boots do not function
Assigning areas as off-limits is a manual process that would need to be created on a per-map basis. Meaning all old content would need to be updated to include the off-limits qualifier.
well designed code deployment systems are your friend. by implementing a change in the codebase that allows changes to be made globally with a single command the its not hard to avoid the hassle of playing around with the code from each map individually. most games have this ability. if STO doesn't I have to question the expertise of the person that designed the engine as well as those who did the programming. because even the oldest mmo's have it.
Every zone in the game has missions, so it can't be categorically turned off in that type of area.
Assigning areas as off-limits is a manual process that would need to be created on a per-map basis. Meaning all old content would need to be updated to include the off-limits qualifier.
It's also a simple matter of ease-of-use, and not confusing players. Why can I use them on Earth Spacedock, but not while running a mission on DS9? Why do they work in this old mission, but not this new one? Etc.
Why not just add a long cooldown after sprinting with the boots? The same should be done with the Dabo holoship awards. No one wants to work for them if they're not permanent.
Comments
The community is the worst aspect of STO.
Here is the problem. Implementing anything that greatly impacts player mobility can have unintended consequences down the road.
What happens if you use the frosted boots on Hobus, where the gravity for the planet is below normal 1 G? (Go try it!)
That may not break that particular mission, but it must be a consideration elsewhere. Similar issues crop up for things like rocket boots -- if the player can fly anywhere, what stops them from just flying over encounters in a mission to reach the end? If we have a mission where the player must reach X location in Y amount of time, how does this affect the mission difficulty (since the frosted boots make you move faster)? Does this make it too easy or too hard for players to outrun enemies?
Any item that implements a new power, especially something that impacts movement, can impact a host of factors that affect mission design and thus requires careful consideration.
That would work, too.
But point is, I suppose--there are lots of ways to make this both non-consumable AND non-potentially gamebreaking.
WOW some actual in-depth reasoning...thanks its really appreciated. but is there no work around to this at all?
like...making "slide" affect only usable while out of combat, or only on certain planets/bases?
like above, social areas only. and such
I don't think you're lying, I think that's a prefectly resonable explanation. But with that said maybe it would be possible that after the 30 hours you could only use them in social zones, such as ESD, DS9, or even just on Andoria would make sense, I think skateing around all the blue guys would be fun. Atleast it's kind of a compromise.
As long as your pants aren't ablaze, I wouldn't be worried about what anyone says about you.
Why can't you simply lock the boots activation out of all mission maps and only allow them to be used in social zones? Which is like the opposite of what you do with some powers that have caused issues in the past.
Alternatively work on some code that will lock out the activation of the boots on any map that the player enters which is associated with a mission / objective in the journal.
Just some ideas to consider, I understand the reasoning behind the decision but the boots really are awesome fun for social zones and hard work to get, I don't have them but hope to get them. However now I'm aware of them being on a timer, I probably wont bother, just as when I learnt that Holographic Ship console things that you can purchase with GPL have a timer of 15 minutes, I never bothered with them and never will because it's a waster of resources.
Every zone in the game has missions, so it can't be categorically turned off in that type of area.
Assigning areas as off-limits is a manual process that would need to be created on a per-map basis. Meaning all old content would need to be updated to include the off-limits qualifier.
It's also a simple matter of ease-of-use, and not confusing players. Why can I use them on Earth Spacedock, but not while running a mission on DS9? Why do they work in this old mission, but not this new one? Etc.
Thanks for this thread though, I won't bother with these boots just like I don't bother with those time limited ship holograms.
Okay, valid reasons. What about the time limit + cooldown, or non-combat only, or only the frost effect being "consumable" and the boots remaining visually?
Charakter..
So for example you go to the Social (invasion) zone on Defera Prime and have no mission in your journal for that map so you can use the boots, then the event activates, you pick up a mission in that map which then goes in your journal and boots are locked out of play.
Complicated, and time consuming I have no doubts but effective and in the long run it would allow you to add cool new items like Rocket Boots, or whatever else you like to change how gameplay normally goes.
Here's another thought as a compromise for those players who want to really badly use the boots, add to a vendor recharge packs for the boots at a high dilithium cost.
Btw, I've read about the issues raised which inevitably caused the decision to be made to implement the timer, but I don't see how the timer prevents players from using the boots in missions, allowing them to use the boots to assist them skipping to objectives or getting things done faster than normal.
However I may have missed something, I'm just trying to help constructively with what's above. I'm really happy with the event and rewards, think you've done a great job. Always going to get some negative feedback from masses of players when they get something new that they have no info on, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, changes can still be made as they have done in the past, but it's really important to not add anything that will effect the long term design of missions, that the point, right?
Ok I'm off to sleep, g'night.
If the boots do look different then my 2 cents could be to just remove the boost from the boots when F2P shows up and let folks keep them as a cosmetic items only. We get to keep the scarfs so how about we keep the boots as well.
Ever had the ghost costume in WoW's Halloween event?
It causes you to fly at a maximum normal jump height and disables jumping.
I think rocket boots should just do that. And then have vertical layout missions where you get a boost specific to that mission that allows you to do full flight.
nuhu Consumable. after 30 hours they go bye bye
If in deed they do go poof that is a really poor idea... they didnt show such consideration for the cryo grenade until several months later. Which also means I wasted about 2$ for something that will go away in a little over a day.
That does make sense. I feel better about the boots now, thanks.
Congratulation... now you are a real Dev.
says the guy that claims having an item for 30 hours is a long time. it isn't and it defeats the purpose of making the effort to get it in the first place
this. they're boots. as aeleys said, if they're such a big problem why make them in the first place.
*facepalm*
again, if its such a big issue clearly it shouldn't have been added to the game in the first place
eh? it can by implementing a check using simple boolean arguments. you know, as in a mission is either active at the time or it isn't. if it is, the special mechanics of the boots do not function
well designed code deployment systems are your friend. by implementing a change in the codebase that allows changes to be made globally with a single command the its not hard to avoid the hassle of playing around with the code from each map individually. most games have this ability. if STO doesn't I have to question the expertise of the person that designed the engine as well as those who did the programming. because even the oldest mmo's have it.
Consequence of working for a company that is having a less than stellar time with public relations.
Why not just add a long cooldown after sprinting with the boots? The same should be done with the Dabo holoship awards. No one wants to work for them if they're not permanent.
Make them always active and live with it
Whats their purpose when we cant use them next Month.
People get them to alter something, if they dont do anything they are just bound artefacts.
If we cause problems like flying to the moon with boots activated, we would notice that
and deactivate them for a certain level
without kewl phun stuff it is boring as always, at least they would be bound and for limited time obtainable :cool:
oh i forgot,
make them statless and give them an effect with +running speed
as only active outside combat :P
Or give us boots from tailor instead :P
Time to add another layer of...
"...it will put Precious in the bucket..., or it will get the hose again..." ... :eek:
Don't let US get to ya, good Sir.
Any news about which tribble you need to breed, and what food you need to give them?
I like this idea. After all, it's not slippery all year round (unless you're on Andoria). The boots as a kind of vanity item are awesome.