But it can be real fun if you got the support, and if you an support someone that doesn't run away from you. Otherwise, it's a lot of stress for the healer. "No, how am I supposed to make that turn and stay within 7.5 kms for my ES! Argh!"
oh I know, I sometimes run my KDF engi in his Marauder, and I frequently find myself with no teammates in range!
My heavier escorts are also built for more sustained fighting, but my BoP and Defiant are runners!
I will not be the first to say it. I hate running. I understand the logic but I feel the time spent running and healing I can respawn just as fast. I am also a cruiser pilot at heart and that is why I fly raptors on the kdf side, probably one of the tankiest escorts in the game. I knwo where my bread is buttered, so I alwyas stay in range of my healers and only evasive around if I get hit with a TB or TR and and my APO is on CD.
I don't pvp much if at all, because i find the wait times to be outrageously long. I do not think the refit Defiant needs any nerfs, like 90 percent of the threads suggest, but i do think cruisers and science ships need a way of surviving. Engineering abilities for space have taken a good deal of nerfs sense launch. I have run cruisers and escorts up and down with the best gear. I find the Defiants have a vary deadly amount of dps, but hardly indestructible. My suggestion is on cruisers and science ships is to remove the diminished returns on armor consoles. This way a player in a cruiser or science ship can stock up on armor, and the burst damage of a defiant will still be there, but it wont be 80 percent effective on the hull of a cruiser, once a cruisers shields go down. Of course this is theory, maybe diminished returns only take effect after three armor consoles. My point is it would avoid any unnecessary nerfs to the Defiant and give cruiser/science captains a way to survive the initial attack by the Defiants. It would also give cruisers ans science ships purpose again in pvp.
The only other solution is boosting engineering skills in space, such as emergency power to shields, reverse shield polarity, even science abilities like transfer shield strength, and science team. In this case you risk making cruisers/science ships op.
Just my thoughts.
I don't pvp much if at all, because i find the wait times to be outrageously long. I do not think the refit Defiant needs any nerfs, like 90 percent of the threads suggest, but i do think cruisers and science ships need a way of surviving. Engineering abilities for space have taken a good deal of nerfs sense launch. I have run cruisers and escorts up and down with the best gear. I find the Defiants have a vary deadly amount of dps, but hardly indestructible. My suggestion is on cruisers and science ships is to remove the diminished returns on armor consoles. This way a player in a cruiser or science ship can stock up on armor, and the burst damage of a defiant will still be there, but it wont be 80 percent effective on the hull of a cruiser, once a cruisers shields go down. Of course this is theory, maybe diminished returns only take effect after three armor consoles. My point is it would avoid any unnecessary nerfs to the Defiant and give cruiser/science captains a way to survive the initial attack by the Defiants. It would also give cruisers ans science ships purpose again in pvp.
The only other solution is boosting engineering skills in space, such as emergency power to shields, reverse shield polarity, even science abilities like transfer shield strength, and science team. In this case you risk making cruisers/science ships op.
Just my thoughts.
Remove the diminishing returns and good cruiser players wont die, unless theyre in a 1 vs 5+
Remove the diminishing returns and good cruiser players wont die, unless theyre in a 1 vs 5+
^^^^^What Mel said. getting rid of diminshing returns will make really really really though heal cruisers (era) indestructible. Right now most good heal cruisers (engie) only have to use their captains abilities to keep their ships up and they can cast all their boff powers to the team. Making it even less challenging you will see fleets running 5 man heal cruisers just to frustrate other teams.
It was a thought but it boils down to this.
Right now game wise there is no point to a cruiser, as a an escort can destroy any cruiser in no time at all.
So that leaves sto in a bad position. Ether they drastically nerf escorts, in which case escorts become pointless, or they buff up cruisers. In which case people will say cruisers are op. To put it frankly from a star trek point of view the small escorts where never met to take on capital ships like cruisers. Case and point being the vigilant tried to take on a Dominion Dreadnought and paid the price for the attempt. Then again the solution could be the duty officer system.
From what i understand is it allows certain buffs to a persons ship. Maybe giving more duty officers to cruiser and science ships, and limiting them when it comes to escorts will solve the problem. There by balancing the game without nerfing the Defiant, or making cruisers op.
It was a thought but it boils down to this.
Right now game wise there is no point to a cruiser, as a an escort can destroy any cruiser in no time at all.
So that leaves sto in a bad position. Ether they drastically nerf escorts, in which case escorts become pointless, or they buff up cruisers. In which case people will say cruisers are op. To put it frankly from a star trek point of view the small escorts where never met to take on capital ships like cruisers. Case and point being the vigilant tried to take on a Dominion Dreadnought and paid the price for the attempt. Then again the solution could be the duty officer system.
From what i understand is it allows certain buffs to a persons ship. Maybe giving more duty officers to cruiser and science ships, and limiting them when it comes to escorts will solve the problem. There by balancing the game without nerfing the Defiant, or making cruisers op.
Whats wrong with escorts blowing up Cruisers ?
We can point to tons of Cannon references that show escorts beating cruisers... and cruisers beating escorts... and sci ships getting beat up on by both. lol I wouldn't suggest trying to use cannon from our fav cheesy TV show to balance a game.
Every ship in the game has the ability to beat any other ship in the game. If your build doesn't allow you to beat an escort one on one then examine your build.
My cruiser kills escorts just fine.... I bet you have aux to sif 3 / EPTS 3 / Engi team 3 those types of things loaded on yours right ?
I will not be the first to say it. I hate running. I understand the logic but I feel the time spent running and healing I can respawn just as fast.
I hate dieing... If I have to respawn even once during a match/mission, it feels like I lost, even if the team won. After all, I got killed! And only a computer game mechanism brought me back. In real Trek, I'd be a goner.
Right now game wise there is no point to a cruiser, as a an escort can destroy any cruiser in no time at all.
In no time at all? yes, if the cruiser doesn't catch the warning signals... the buffing up and decloaking... and doesn't hit his defences fast enough. But if the alpha fails, you'd have to be a very good escort pilot, even to bring down a moderately good cruiser pilot. Usually the escort will sit on the cruisers tail until one of the ships has spent all it's heals, and this is usually the escort. Even if he's just being hit by the cruisers aft weaponry.
I don't normally fly the Defiant, not because it isn't awesome (it is), but because I don't agree with Feds having cloaking tech. Sure I'll take one for spin once in a while but I feel a little dirty when I do... . And I get a little disgusted when I hear fed escort pilots talking about their "cloaked alphas". Go play Klingon! . I really do feel the defiant hurt the klingon faction population. A lot of players who like that style just fly Defiants now instead of Raptors/BoP's.
I will say that some fed ships seem exempt from the "rule" of higher turn - lower hull. I've always believed that
the Defiant (Excelsior, etc) should not have as high a hull value as its less nimble counterparts.
It was a thought but it boils down to this.
Right now game wise there is no point to a cruiser, as a an escort can destroy any cruiser in no time at all.
So that leaves sto in a bad position. Ether they drastically nerf escorts, in which case escorts become pointless, or they buff up cruisers. In which case people will say cruisers are op. To put it frankly from a star trek point of view the small escorts where never met to take on capital ships like cruisers. Case and point being the vigilant tried to take on a Dominion Dreadnought and paid the price for the attempt. Then again the solution could be the duty officer system.
From what i understand is it allows certain buffs to a persons ship. Maybe giving more duty officers to cruiser and science ships, and limiting them when it comes to escorts will solve the problem. There by balancing the game without nerfing the Defiant, or making cruisers op.
NPC Cruisers and PvE Heroes, that are out performed by said NPCs comparatively speaking perhaps.
Even a moderate cruiser captain, if his ship is built properly is going to be able to withstand at least one alpha strike.
Tanking is more than just popping RSP and hoping for the best. Ask some of the better cruiser pilots around for help and advice, or better yet watch them in battle and follow their builds. Bigredjedi, and Era are both very good examples of super tank cruisers that can still heal team mates while under pressure from multiple targets.
I can pretty much guarantee you, there is not a single hotshot Escort jockey around, that can solo crack Era, or Bigred. For that matter, there's very few that can crack quite a few other cruiser guys. Tideman's healcruiser (on his klink) is also insanely tanky for another example. If you can't tank an Escort smacking you around, you aren't using your buffs properly.
I don't normally fly the Defiant, not because it isn't awesome (it is), but because I don't agree with Feds having cloaking tech. Sure I'll take one for spin once in a while but I feel a little dirty when I do... . And I get a little disgusted when I hear fed escort pilots talking about their "cloaked alphas". Go play Klingon! . I really do feel the defiant hurt the klingon faction population. A lot of players who like that style just fly Defiants now instead of Raptors/BoP's.
I will say that some fed ships seem exempt from the "rule" of higher turn - lower hull. I've always believed that
the Defiant (Excelsior, etc) should not have as high a hull value as its less nimble counterparts.
Prior to the Defiant, Feds always started on the defensive in PvP. It got quite old to have to go in, Fedball, and wait for the Klingons to unleash their alpha strike, which could rarely be recovered from. Without at least one cloaking ship, this would still be the pattern of every arena match. So, even though I don't fly one, I welcome them.
It was a thought but it boils down to this.
Right now game wise there is no point to a cruiser, as a an escort can destroy any cruiser in no time at all.
.
Maybe you should gear up and play more PvP - which does not have long waits at VA - before you make ridiculous statements like this one.
I can pretty much guarantee you, there is not a single hotshot Escort jockey around, that can solo crack Era, or Bigred..
Heh, I tried to fight BRJ's vorcha once last night in kerrat with my eng/defiant. I quickly went back to attacking the BoPs. Unfortunately, I got stuck fighting Nixtux's SciBoP most of the night, while under focus fire, ugh.
Somehow, I think the outcome would have been the same if I was in my tac/defiant.
I still want the Defiant's refit cloak to be converted into another console, then give us back the console slot we "lost" to pay for that cloak. I'd be willing to take a small hull hit in order to get that extra console slot back and maintain the current maneuverability.
That being said, I suppose some folks are right that it would step on the toes of the Fleet and Advanced Escorts. I still think that there would be big enough differences between the classes of Escort to justify, but I digress.
Prior to the Defiant, Feds always started on the defensive in PvP. It got quite old to have to go in, Fedball, and wait for the Klingons to unleash their alpha strike, which could rarely be recovered from. Without at least one cloaking ship, this would still be the pattern of every arena match. So, even though I don't fly one, I welcome them.
or... did this stop because there are so many KDF ships without cloak now? Unless all the ships on the team can cloak, the old mass-ambush won't work.
I could try to defend my posts but at this point with everyone picking bits and pieces from my posts, and blowing them out of context. I will simply say its not an easy fix, and more then likely one side is going to be left gimped. With that being said i wont be returning to this thread.
The problem was that all of the little bits, when put together, created a context that was not entirely persuasive. Little bits like,
Right now game wise there is no point to a cruiser, as a an escort can destroy any cruiser in no time at all.
That's a joke.
My suggestion is on cruisers and science ships is to remove the diminished returns on armor consoles...
That's horribly imbalanced.
The only other solution is boosting engineering skills in space, such as emergency power to shields, reverse shield polarity, even science abilities like transfer shield strength, and science team.
That's just... wow...
To put it frankly from a star trek point of view the small escorts where never met to take on capital ships like cruisers. Case and point <canon reference to justify balancing concerns>
Sorry, but i think youd be wrong about that one :O
100% agree with ^this... All it takes is an Escort pilot that knows the ins and outs of both their build and their opponent's, judicious use of control powers, and like the cute, little Baby said, stun them and no one survives (so long as you can take advantage of that window of ultimate vulnerabilty).
Comments
oh I know, I sometimes run my KDF engi in his Marauder, and I frequently find myself with no teammates in range!
My heavier escorts are also built for more sustained fighting, but my BoP and Defiant are runners!
Ok just dont smoke too much greens
The only other solution is boosting engineering skills in space, such as emergency power to shields, reverse shield polarity, even science abilities like transfer shield strength, and science team. In this case you risk making cruisers/science ships op.
Just my thoughts.
Remove the diminishing returns and good cruiser players wont die, unless theyre in a 1 vs 5+
^^^^^What Mel said. getting rid of diminshing returns will make really really really though heal cruisers (era) indestructible. Right now most good heal cruisers (engie) only have to use their captains abilities to keep their ships up and they can cast all their boff powers to the team. Making it even less challenging you will see fleets running 5 man heal cruisers just to frustrate other teams.
Right now game wise there is no point to a cruiser, as a an escort can destroy any cruiser in no time at all.
So that leaves sto in a bad position. Ether they drastically nerf escorts, in which case escorts become pointless, or they buff up cruisers. In which case people will say cruisers are op. To put it frankly from a star trek point of view the small escorts where never met to take on capital ships like cruisers. Case and point being the vigilant tried to take on a Dominion Dreadnought and paid the price for the attempt. Then again the solution could be the duty officer system.
From what i understand is it allows certain buffs to a persons ship. Maybe giving more duty officers to cruiser and science ships, and limiting them when it comes to escorts will solve the problem. There by balancing the game without nerfing the Defiant, or making cruisers op.
Whats wrong with escorts blowing up Cruisers ?
We can point to tons of Cannon references that show escorts beating cruisers... and cruisers beating escorts... and sci ships getting beat up on by both. lol I wouldn't suggest trying to use cannon from our fav cheesy TV show to balance a game.
Every ship in the game has the ability to beat any other ship in the game. If your build doesn't allow you to beat an escort one on one then examine your build.
My cruiser kills escorts just fine.... I bet you have aux to sif 3 / EPTS 3 / Engi team 3 those types of things loaded on yours right ?
I hate dieing... If I have to respawn even once during a match/mission, it feels like I lost, even if the team won. After all, I got killed! And only a computer game mechanism brought me back. In real Trek, I'd be a goner.
In no time at all? yes, if the cruiser doesn't catch the warning signals... the buffing up and decloaking... and doesn't hit his defences fast enough. But if the alpha fails, you'd have to be a very good escort pilot, even to bring down a moderately good cruiser pilot. Usually the escort will sit on the cruisers tail until one of the ships has spent all it's heals, and this is usually the escort. Even if he's just being hit by the cruisers aft weaponry.
I will say that some fed ships seem exempt from the "rule" of higher turn - lower hull. I've always believed that
the Defiant (Excelsior, etc) should not have as high a hull value as its less nimble counterparts.
Have you played much?
NPC Cruisers and PvE Heroes, that are out performed by said NPCs comparatively speaking perhaps.
Even a moderate cruiser captain, if his ship is built properly is going to be able to withstand at least one alpha strike.
Tanking is more than just popping RSP and hoping for the best. Ask some of the better cruiser pilots around for help and advice, or better yet watch them in battle and follow their builds. Bigredjedi, and Era are both very good examples of super tank cruisers that can still heal team mates while under pressure from multiple targets.
I can pretty much guarantee you, there is not a single hotshot Escort jockey around, that can solo crack Era, or Bigred. For that matter, there's very few that can crack quite a few other cruiser guys. Tideman's healcruiser (on his klink) is also insanely tanky for another example. If you can't tank an Escort smacking you around, you aren't using your buffs properly.
Prior to the Defiant, Feds always started on the defensive in PvP. It got quite old to have to go in, Fedball, and wait for the Klingons to unleash their alpha strike, which could rarely be recovered from. Without at least one cloaking ship, this would still be the pattern of every arena match. So, even though I don't fly one, I welcome them.
Maybe you should gear up and play more PvP - which does not have long waits at VA - before you make ridiculous statements like this one.
Somehow, I think the outcome would have been the same if I was in my tac/defiant.
That being said, I suppose some folks are right that it would step on the toes of the Fleet and Advanced Escorts. I still think that there would be big enough differences between the classes of Escort to justify, but I digress.
or... did this stop because there are so many KDF ships without cloak now? Unless all the ships on the team can cloak, the old mass-ambush won't work.
willing to sacrifice a boff slot too? Fly a T4 defiant!
Sorry, but i think youd be wrong about that one :O
This part was pretty spot on though.
Perhaps not, then lets put it a draw shall we?
It's been done.
Era is smart though... when he sees me not shooting at anyone... he always seems to zip away or save a heal for the coming burst. lol
Its true though a good cruiser tank is almost impossible for a lone escort to kill... the really good ones get wise to trickery pretty quick.
just need to stun him, then no one can survive, not even him
it depend a lot on the situation though, do you men 1on1 or like with teams.. well.
I think I've killed Era 3 times. And the last time, it took like 4 of us.
just unlucky.. me and era play eu mornings and get TRIBBLE once in a while by a full premade.. damn pugs.. grrr.. ..what?
lolwhat? Era getting pwned? Unpossible!
100% agree with ^this... All it takes is an Escort pilot that knows the ins and outs of both their build and their opponent's, judicious use of control powers, and like the cute, little Baby said, stun them and no one survives (so long as you can take advantage of that window of ultimate vulnerabilty).
-Big Red Goomba
P.S. SNB helps too.
It's all the time Era spends in Ground PvP these days. It's atrophying his skills.
But at least you can kill Era there.