Well we were told that there is more PvP maps on the way with the new DSE Open PvP encounters and PvP maps such as the Nopada Arena, and eventually Territorial Control.
But given how the PvP community is now down to a mere handful, at this point Cryptic might as well give up on PvP and put that energy into making much-needed PvE content.
mopre PVP maps? what a great idea! then we can spread PVPers out along even MORE ques!
Adding more maps wouldn't spread us out amongst any more queues; The 3 current maps (Briar Patch, Cracked Planetoid and Solar Wind) are all within 1 Arena queue. Once you get into an Arena, the map you are given is randomly selected from those 3.
What would spread us out is more game types. We have: Arena and Cap N Hold (Space), and Arena and Assault (Ground). Split both of those into FvK and FvF (and KvK) and there's a total of 8 queues.
I agree that queues could some some tidying up/steamlining, but in order for that to happen, we'd need an additional game type and/or actual development time devoted to PvP... neither of which are exactly in abundance at the moment
For the record I'm not a huge PVPer. I do enjoy doing it within the fleet though and used to PVP somewhat back before Season 2 broke the Queues.
My question would be, what exactly are you asking for when you want more "PVP content"? Is it just new maps? New game types? Apart from the traditional 'kill them all' and 'capture the flag' types that we do have, what else could be added?
Now I do understand the appeal of testing yourself against other human players since you are forced to learn new tricks, but STO is being marketed at the "casual" gaming crowd which is why on normal you can just autofire/ afk your way through PVE missions. I'm afraid that the PVP crowd is probably in the same boat as the KDF; in that alone they are probably a minority community which will be Cryptics reasoning as to why PVP doesn't get more attention.
That being said, it was noted earlier in the thread that a lot of powers were changed, largely in response to PVP feedback. Escorts have been largely nerfed because of the cries of Cruiser and Science captains. VM and SNB have been changed so much from their god status at launch. So clearly something has been done for the PVP community.
The biggest enemy to PVP I see is the queue system. Its been horrible ever since I can remember and we've seen its latest failed use with the Fleet Action queues.
This is the lamest half-truth based thread concept I have ever seen... Yes they only added one map (That I recall), Shanty Town. But maps are not the only kind of content, they've added many new types of gear and weapons that you can acquire only through collecting PvP points (Though now-a-days emblems are the new hotness rather than honor). Not to mention the constant re-balancing of the game, not for the sake of PvE (Oh no, the PvE'ers hate the re-balancing with a passion, leave everything OP they say, they like it that way) but for PvP.
Let's not forget that they did in a way add a new game type as well when they added Fed vs Fed. Something many of us were clamoring for quite loudly. What you don't consider new things to do and play with "content", only new maps are "content". Well that's certainly one heck of a limited view if you ask me...
Now I'm not trying to say it's all peaches and roses. Hell I'd love to see new maps and gametypes as well, and it does indeed take longer for PvP to progress than PvE. Not that people ever played that third game type in space (Fun as it was, hardly anyone ever que'd for it). But don't even try to say Cryptic hasn't done anything at all, because that's just total troll bate for the Devs and you damn well know it.
I dont think new maps will do. Most everyone just zooms to the top of map to start and battles typicallly float up as they progress. New game types would be best.
The way I would love to PvP played out is as the front lines of the war. Maps where one side is defensive and one is offensive. The Feds may be attacking X to push the Klingons back or they may be called in for a distress call to protect a colony from a Klingon invasion force.
I like control maps except once taken over why not setup fortifications to hold it? We have lost some maps since launch and one was my favorite where you would beam up tac teams and transport them to an enemy held area so they could take it over. That was an awesome battle!
I personally dont like that we have a warzone PvP a arena PvP and control PvP to compete in. PvP is all about the war. Open PvP will likely kill the ques if there is no challenge and insentive to continue doing the PvP matches.
Strategy needs to play a big part in how the maps and matches play out. This would be best played with territory control. However you could also offer boosts, loot or other things for winning matches as opposed to just playing matches.
Maps should be addressed for both space and ground and the PvP que should IMO just ask for space or ground. Then when it ques up it goes to a random environment for either ground or space. You could end up in a warzone battlefield, a arena battlefield or a control battle field.
Warzone PvP: 10-20 man teams
Space: the fleets are meeting head to head to gain control of the system. NPCs defend strategic points that when captured wins the match.
Ground: the front lines are drawn and away teams face off head to head to secure the planet. NPC defend stategic points that when captured wins the match. (the current ground cc match feels closer to a war zone feel.
Arena PvP: 5 man teams
Basically the same as we have now
Capture and Control: 5-10 man teams
Space: it's close but with capturing a point you set up light defenses to control the point.
Ground: needs to be more like the space variety in conquering a point and controlling it as influence counts down. Conquering a point sets up light defenses to control it.
Maps should have at least 2 variants as well.
Additionally there should be a melee only and shuttle only arena aside from the regular que for PvP.
All the PvP maps that have systems should be territory control PvP zones on timers to offset when they are accessed.
The que should offer you the options of Shuttle PvP, melee PvP, space PvP, ground PvP and territory control PvP. You could always go to the zone for for territoy control.
This is the lamest half-truth based thread concept I have ever seen... Yes they only added one map (That I recall), Shanty Town. But maps are not the only kind of content, they've added many new types of gear and weapons that you can acquire only through collecting PvP points (Though now-a-days emblems are the new hotness rather than honor). Not to mention the constant re-balancing of the game, not for the sake of PvE (Oh no, the PvE'ers hate the re-balancing with a passion, leave everything OP they say, they like it that way) but for PvP.
Let's not forget that they did in a way add a new game type as well when they added Fed vs Fed. Something many of us were clamoring for quite loudly. What you don't consider new things to do and play with "content", only new maps are "content". Well that's certainly one heck of a limited view if you ask me...
Now I'm not trying to say it's all peaches and roses. Hell I'd love to see new maps and gametypes as well, and it does indeed take longer for PvP to progress than PvE. Not that people ever played that third game type in space (Fun as it was, hardly anyone ever que'd for it). But don't even try to say Cryptic hasn't done anything at all, because that's just total troll bate for the Devs and you damn well know it.
Sorry, but it's the full truth and hardly trollbait.
There is no PvP gear; the Borg, Aegis, and Breen sets are all gained through PvE.
And you can earn far more Emblems doing PvE than you can through the PvP Dailies. In fact, PvP Dailies are even left out for the Q Double XP/Mission Reward bonuses.
As far as balances passes go, there were needed for the game. No one wants to be playing a broken game. But, they usually the ones that the PvP community proposes? Why? Well, to be frank, there aren't too many PvEers that understand the intricacies of all of the math behind the game (huge props to BigRedJedi and guys like him that go through and figure it all out), and no PvEers ever complain about OP skills since NPCs use 1, at max 2, skills against them.
There were also no "improvements" to the queues; the current version we have now has come about due to the fact that the original queues were flawed and borked.
The thing that bugs me about the lack of PvP content, is the near infinite replayability said content would have.
We've been playing with the same maps and modes forever, and most of us dedicated PvP fans are still here. Imagine having just ONE new mode! or ONE new open instanced system, how far that would go! They spend sooo much time on missions that most players will only do once or twice, and we're asking for content that will last us the games lifetime! It just seems easy, an earlier poster said it best, That we don't need space stations or pretty colors, all we need is the black emptiness of space, and an objective...kill the enemy. It sounds soo easy!
(on a side note, I deperately want to be rid of the oranges and yellows of space in this game, I get it that not all space is black, but this is a trek game, and 90% of trek took place in the blackness of space. So i'd love for some PvP maps to look more like our revamped sector space, where ships actually look alive!!)
There are soo many good PvP ideas on the forums, its just soo sad to me that more doesn't get done.
I don't think they mean to, I just don't think they have a lot of experience in competitive multiplexer content, it shows in every initial release, the lack of balancing in new powers/items ect. It also shows in those Raid PvP zones they had on tribble, ONE SPAWN POINT? I really don't get the fascination with ONE SPAWN POINT, or Even two? why not have several! how hard is that, we do it in arenas? this is space, with nearly infinite directions in which to go, not "i'll walk thru this door, please be waiting on the other side with a phaser pointed at me head" Space zones in this game are so big, why not have an open system with a half dozen objectives spread 50 KM apart and make the teams prioritize, strategize, and actually have to find the enemy? That would be so exciting to have these massive 20 player maps with so much to do, and have multiple spawn points from which to enter. I dunno, I like everyone else has ideas aplenty.
Rant over. I just hope to see SOMETHING soon, not after season 5, or 6...SOON. and wouldn't it be great if that something was something that everyone could enjoy, interest/motivate the rest of the player base to pvp perhaps?
Sorry, but it's the full truth and hardly trollbait.
There is no PvP gear; the Borg, Aegis, and Breen sets are all gained through PvE.
Lies... Aegis, Borg, Breen and Reman along with Emble Mark XI Rare's have supplanted the old PvP gear (In the relatively recent past). But back when it was just Mark X Purples there was a difference between the gear you got from doing exploration, pvp and STFs. The STF gear had borg proc, the pvp gear was more damage oriented and the exploration gear was, well... not.
Some of that Mark X Purps are still better than the MXI Blues as well depending on what trait your shooting for (Some, not all).
mopre PVP maps? what a great idea! then we can spread PVPers out along even MORE ques!
Part of the reason for the devs redesigning the queues last year was so that they'd have maps put into a rotation under a single gametype. I know a huge part of the PvP community wanted the queues designed for that reason as the only maps that used to be played were ones at the top of the old listing (C&H or cracked)
For example, when you enter the Space Arena queue, you're assigned a random arena map out of the three available.
Lies... Aegis, Borg, Breen and Reman along with Emble Mark XI Rare's have supplanted the old PvP gear (In the relatively recent past). But back when it was just Mark X Purples there was a difference between the gear you got from doing exploration, pvp and STFs. The STF gear had borg proc, the pvp gear was more damage oriented and the exploration gear was, well... not.
Some of that Mark X Purps are still better than the MXI Blues as well depending on what trait your shooting for (Some, not all).
Please refrain from calling me a liar unless you have positive proof of it.
There have never been any exclusive PvP gear sets.
ALL of the high end gear is, and can be, acquired through PvE. The closest way to get anything substantial via "PvP" is through Ker'rat... and I say "PvP" because most of the good drops there come from the Borg NPCs.
Aegis = Crafted. (PvE)
Borg = STFs (PvE)
Reman = FE (PvE)
Emblem Mk XIs = PvE/PvP. However, you can get only 3 Emblems from PvP dailies whereas you can get FAR more from the PvE missions.
Before the Borg/Aegis/Breen sets came out, high end PvP gear consisted of Covariant Shield Array Mk X [Cap]x3 along with Purple Mk X weaponry... sold at Battle Group Omega/K7 for Marks earned mostly through PvE.
Again, none of these are PvP sets. Care to revise your statements?
The closest way to get anything substantial via "PvP" is through Ker'rat
He's absolutely right, I go after the borg just as often as I go after players in Kerrat, it's the only place where there's like 1 chance in 63462572468245725 that a Mk XII rare will drop.
As for PvP content...everyone else has covered it. There's not enough. And the lack of anything else to do has lead me to unsub until something does (and no, foundry isn't content). I'm paid up till the end of the borg invasion, then I'll wait and see if they can manage to save the game.
praxis, the pve'er was talking about those old Mk X gear that costs a lot more in marks of honor as opposed to the pve counterpart. I never saw the superiority of it except with the capx3 cov shield.
If the pve'er wants to have that recorded as pvp gear, then yay, we haz pvp gear (lolz). I don't think the other side will ever fully get it; they'll nitpick this or that but will truly never understand the current state of PvP because they only queue up for 3 additional emblems.
Most pvp'ers know why the 3pc borg set is nice for pvp, despite having to pve for it. Imagine if the pve'ers only had 1 map for end game content, and they'll have to replay that over and over again. Just imagine the amount of hate filled forum posts that'll have wishstone working 24-7.
EDIT: Now, imagine that pve content is actually hard, and that the superior set came exclusively through a pvp-only token system. I'm picturing the pve'ers raging about having to pvp to get the quality gear.
Then I'm back to reality, realizing that pve will never amount to anything more than afk/ autofire repetition.
Before the Borg/Aegis/Breen sets came out, high end PvP gear consisted of Covariant Shield Array Mk X [Cap]x3 along with Purple Mk X weaponry... sold at Battle Group Omega/K7 for Marks earned mostly through PvE.
Again, none of these are PvP sets. Care to revise your statements?
The weapons you could acquire through PvP medals had different traits than those you got from PvE medals. As I already stated and you completely ignored, the PvP weapon gear was more focused on damage often with [CrtD]x2[CrtH] as opposed to [Acc]x2[CrtH]. While a lot of the gear you could get from the vendors at Ganalda, K7 and Battle Group Omega were the same, not all of it was. Sometimes if you wanted a specific trait like more accuracy you needed Exploration points from PvE but if you wanted more Crit Damage etc then you could only get it from PvP medals.
The new Borg / Aegis / Breen / Reman /Emblem gear is all PvE yes, but as I again already stated it's not necessarily the best gear in the game. For most it will do, but if you want a more specific build some are better off with the old MK X Purps, that can be either specific to PvE Medals or PvP Medals depending on what you want (Or available to both as the case may be, again depends on the gear).
Your statements simply ignore the fact that there was and is gear that you can aquire only via PvP (Mark X Purps with specific traits not available to PvE medals). I didn't even mention what Ker'rat drops as I would consider that quasi PvE/PvP.
The weapons you could acquire through PvP medals had different traits than those you got from PvE medals. As I already stated and you completely ignored, the PvP weapon gear was more focused on damage often with [CrtD]x2[CrtH] as opposed to [Acc]x2[CrtH]. While a lot of the gear you could get from the vendors at Ganalda, K7 and Battle Group Omega were the same, not all of it was. Sometimes if you wanted a specific trait like more accuracy you needed Exploration points from PvE but if you wanted more Crit Damage etc then you could only get it from PvP medals.
The new Borg / Aegis / Breen / Reman /Emblem gear is all PvE yes, but as I again already stated it's not necessarily the best gear in the game. For most it will do, but if you want a more specific build some are better off with the old MK X Purps, that can be either specific to PvE Medals or PvP Medals depending on what you want (Or available to both as the case may be, again depends on the gear).
Your statements simply ignore the fact that there was and is gear that you can aquire only via PvP (Mark X Purps with specific traits not available to PvE medals). I didn't even mention what Ker'rat drops as I would consider that quasi PvE/PvP.
these days the way to get "pvp gear" though is to get emblems and turn it into honor. loved the honor system but the screwed that anyways..
oh and 3part gear + cov cap3 > everything (except in a few exceptions)
The weapons you could acquire through PvP medals had different traits than those you got from PvE medals. As I already stated and you completely ignored, the PvP weapon gear was more focused on damage often with [CrtD]x2[CrtH] as opposed to [Acc]x2[CrtH]. While a lot of the gear you could get from the vendors at Ganalda, K7 and Battle Group Omega were the same, not all of it was. Sometimes if you wanted a specific trait like more accuracy you needed Exploration points from PvE but if you wanted more Crit Damage etc then you could only get it from PvP medals.
The new Borg / Aegis / Breen / Reman /Emblem gear is all PvE yes, but as I again already stated it's not necessarily the best gear in the game. For most it will do, but if you want a more specific build some are better off with the old MK X Purps, that can be either specific to PvE Medals or PvP Medals depending on what you want (Or available to both as the case may be, again depends on the gear).
Your statements simply ignore the fact that there was and is gear that you can aquire only via PvP (Mark X Purps with specific traits not available to PvE medals). I didn't even mention what Ker'rat drops as I would consider that quasi PvE/PvP.
The weapons you could acquire through PvP medals had different traits than those you got from PvE medals. As I already stated and you completely ignored, the PvP weapon gear was more focused on damage often with [CrtD]x2[CrtH] as opposed to [Acc]x2[CrtH]. While a lot of the gear you could get from the vendors at Ganalda, K7 and Battle Group Omega were the same, not all of it was. Sometimes if you wanted a specific trait like more accuracy you needed Exploration points from PvE but if you wanted more Crit Damage etc then you could only get it from PvP medals.
The new Borg / Aegis / Breen / Reman /Emblem gear is all PvE yes, but as I again already stated it's not necessarily the best gear in the game. For most it will do, but if you want a more specific build some are better off with the old MK X Purps, that can be either specific to PvE Medals or PvP Medals depending on what you want (Or available to both as the case may be, again depends on the gear).
Your statements simply ignore the fact that there was and is gear that you can aquire only via PvP (Mark X Purps with specific traits not available to PvE medals). I didn't even mention what Ker'rat drops as I would consider that quasi PvE/PvP.
Then in that regard, you are correct. You made it seem like there was a special set of PvP gear that was unobtainable otherwise. For that, I apologize.
Regardless, that gear is fully available through exclusively PvE means as well and has been since last October, making it available available through PvE alone for as long as (actually longer, I think?) than it was PvE "exclusive."
Then in that regard, you are correct. You made it seem like there was a special set of PvP gear that was unobtainable otherwise. For that, I apologize.
That was not my intent, just that there was gear (With traits) specific to PvP medals. I suppose I should have been more clear, sorry for that.
Regardless, that gear is fully available through exclusively PvE means as well and has been since last October, making it available available through PvE alone for as long as (actually longer, I think?) than it was PvE "exclusive."
If that is indeed true, that you can now acquire Mk X Purples with [CtrD]x2[CtrH] through PvE means and not just the [Acc]x2[CrtH] I was used to then that is news to me. Still as you stated and I have as well the Aegis / Borg / Reman / Breen / Emblem gear currently reins supreme (And those are PvE items). Those are the state of things today, my emphasis though was that there was a time in the not to distant past where there was gear specific to PvP vendors, stuff that was created after the game had been out.
The point I was trying to get across though was to show that while Cryptic has been lackluster with PvP content compared to PvE (And they most definitely have been so), they have not completely ignored us and indeed come out with stuff for PvP since the game launch and/or worked on mechanics for PvP, not only just now on Tribble...
Though I am quite excited with what is, finally, coming with Open PvP.
That was not my intent, just that there was gear (With traits) specific to PvP medals. I suppose I should have been more clear, sorry for that.
If that is indeed true, that you can now acquire Mk X Purples with [CtrD]x2[CtrH] through PvE means and not just the [Acc]x2[CrtH] I was used to then that is news to me. Still as you stated and I have as well the Aegis / Borg / Reman / Breen / Emblem gear currently reins supreme (And those are PvE items). Those are the state of things today, my point though was that there was a time in the not to distant past where there was gear specific to PvP vendors, stuff that was created after the game had been out.
The point being to show that while Cryptic has been lackluster with PvP content compared to PvE, they have indeed come out with stuff for PvP since the game launch, not only just now on Tribble...
No hard feelings
You can exchange Emblems for Marks of Valor/Exploration/Honor at the USS T'Kumbra at Battle Group Omega at a 1:1 rate.
I personally don't consider tweaking a few modifiers to be PvP content at all, especially since it's easily available through PvE. The real issue is that PvE can cry about things like "My uniform pips don't line up!", "I"m missing a running light on my Intrepid!", "I want more sightseeing!" etc etc, and those get addressed and fixed right up. However, PvP related issues not only don't get any Dev time, they get more or less ignored on the forums. Looking through the Dev tracker, the amount of Dev posts on PvE issues vs PvP is appalling, and in fact, insulting. We are paying customers, after all
Most of what you're asking for in terms of maps would likely be done best if they'd make the tech for players to make PvP foundry maps. Blizzard did that w/Warcraft 3 and people are still updating and playing DoTA maps. Imo, adding a map or 2 would just get old quick. Allow the players create and choose to play in specific battle fields in the short term.
If they're gonna add/develop PvP content I'd rather it be an Open Deep Space PvP Sector where people can only go in 1x/week or so (ie if they leave they have to wait 7 days before being able to re-enter). While there ships would take damage like elite PvE and have to scavange and fight over resources to repair their ships. Later add in fleet starbases etc.
If they're gonna add/develop PvP content I'd rather it be an Open Deep Space PvP Sector where people can only go in 1x/week or so (ie if they leave they have to wait 7 days before being able to re-enter). While there ships would take damage like elite PvE and have to scavange and fight over resources to repair their ships. Later add in fleet starbases etc.
I agree that open pvp is what Cryptic should be shooting for, it would keep this game lively for longer time with less input from them... pve maps get old fast and it doesn't matter how many times you Re visit them there still stale.
I however am not willing to give them a pass to do nothing at all until they decide Open PvP is ready. Honestly creating a couple maps should be nothing more then a days work for them. If its more then that they need to revisit there tools. They can't honestly tell me PvP isn't worth 1 day here and there to release a new map. No one cares if it has new objectives or anything else... a couple new basic arena maps isn't asking for much. They will get replay far more often then some lowbie mission revamp.
I however am not willing to give them a pass to do nothing at all until they decide Open PvP is ready. Honestly creating a couple maps should be nothing more then a days work for them. If its more then that they need to revisit there tools. They can't honestly tell me PvP isn't worth 1 day here and there to release a new map. No one cares if it has new objectives or anything else... a couple new basic arena maps isn't asking for much. They will get replay far more often then some lowbie mission revamp.
Exactly.
And like others have said, PvP maps have infinite replayability. We've gone this far on 3 maps, imagine if we had 10.
(And if they don't do mission revamps, how else will they introduce horribly broken and OP weapons? Oh yeah... FEs )
I'm in agreement with the community that the PVP Maps should have been released a long time ago.. even if it was just 1 map per year, it would have made it seem like the PVP Community, both space and ground, were getting.. something.. When Shanty Town was released, I thought they would bring about some new space map. To be honest, I kind of liked the old Space Assault Map where you'd pick up Soliders and deliver them to PVE protected strike points, mean while if your opposing team killed you in transport, you hurt your team.
How ever I'im sure the problem doesn't have anything to do with "Care" from the develpers, but resources in those areas.. I mean lets face it. They have to, from time to time, run things by CBS before they can even add new content to the game. That can stop many things from being released when they want them to. Who knows.. Maybe the whole reason, beyond not having the resources to do it, has been CBS Getting in the way?
Just trying to play Devil's advocate here. But please, Developers, release moar PVP maps soon.. The PVP Community has been needing something since the 2.0 Que crash.. And then the 3.0 Crash.. and the most recient 4.0 crash.... :rolleyes:
I'm in agreement with the community that the PVP Maps should have been released a long time ago.. even if it was just 1 map per year, it would have made it seem like the PVP Community, both space and ground, were getting.. something.. When Shanty Town was released, I thought they would bring about some new space map. To be honest, I kind of liked the old Space Assault Map where you'd pick up Soliders and deliver them to PVE protected strike points, mean while if your opposing team killed you in transport, you hurt your team.
How ever I'im sure the problem doesn't have anything to do with "Care" from the develpers, but resources in those areas.. I mean lets face it. They have to, from time to time, run things by CBS before they can even add new content to the game. That can stop many things from being released when they want them to. Who knows.. Maybe the whole reason, beyond not having the resources to do it, has been CBS Getting in the way?
Just trying to play Devil's advocate here. But please, Developers, release moar PVP maps soon.. The PVP Community has been needing something since the 2.0 Que crash.. And then the 3.0 Crash.. and the most recient 4.0 crash.... :rolleyes:
I tried to side with the Devs and give them the benefit of the doubt... but unless they're a one-man team, I can see quite literally no reason why a few hours (and that's being generous) couldn't have been devoted to shoving spawn points on an existing map and giving it to us. It would have done LOADS to make us not feel like completely second-rate customers.
And while I'm on that, we contribute just as much to the C-Store as PvE... just think of all of the Excels/MVAE/Nebulas you see flying around... and all of the respecs we do.
I tried to side with the Devs and give them the benefit of the doubt... but unless they're a one-man team, I can see quite literally no reason why a few hours (and that's being generous) couldn't have been devoted to shoving spawn points on an existing map and giving it to us. It would have done LOADS to make us not feel like completely second-rate customers.
And while I'm on that, we contribute just as much to the C-Store as PvE... just think of all of the Excels/MVAE/Nebulas you see flying around... and all of the respecs we do.
To be honest, the one thing that bothered me.. is why didn't they just allow the players to use the Foundry to make their own PVP Maps? And then the best maps could be voted into the Rotation in the Que system...
That's just it they shouldn't have to reassign any people "resources" to make 1 or 2 maps now and then... Hell all it would take would be Dstal to say ok boys last Thursday of every month 3 guys are going to whip up one new PvP map... it goes to tribble Friday, if all's good it goes to live in next patch we where going to do anyway. If that had happened the DAY Mr DS took over think how many maps we would have in rotation now.....
That would cost Cryptic what really ? Over 10 months... less then 2 weeks of labour and enough maps to make an entire night of PvP go by with out repeating one map. Honestly 3 maps at launch 3 maps 18 months later... I have played discoed games that get more updates.
I know your just playing Devils Advocate Kila... but I doubt CBS really cares if we fight over the briar patch, or Sector 123456.
Comments
They've been "on the way" since the very first Engineering Report.
Adding more maps wouldn't spread us out amongst any more queues; The 3 current maps (Briar Patch, Cracked Planetoid and Solar Wind) are all within 1 Arena queue. Once you get into an Arena, the map you are given is randomly selected from those 3.
What would spread us out is more game types. We have: Arena and Cap N Hold (Space), and Arena and Assault (Ground). Split both of those into FvK and FvF (and KvK) and there's a total of 8 queues.
I agree that queues could some some tidying up/steamlining, but in order for that to happen, we'd need an additional game type and/or actual development time devoted to PvP... neither of which are exactly in abundance at the moment
We know the DSE PvP is here, because it was on Tribble.
We know arenas is on the way, the only thing that is speculation is Territorial control.
My question would be, what exactly are you asking for when you want more "PVP content"? Is it just new maps? New game types? Apart from the traditional 'kill them all' and 'capture the flag' types that we do have, what else could be added?
Now I do understand the appeal of testing yourself against other human players since you are forced to learn new tricks, but STO is being marketed at the "casual" gaming crowd which is why on normal you can just autofire/ afk your way through PVE missions. I'm afraid that the PVP crowd is probably in the same boat as the KDF; in that alone they are probably a minority community which will be Cryptics reasoning as to why PVP doesn't get more attention.
That being said, it was noted earlier in the thread that a lot of powers were changed, largely in response to PVP feedback. Escorts have been largely nerfed because of the cries of Cruiser and Science captains. VM and SNB have been changed so much from their god status at launch. So clearly something has been done for the PVP community.
The biggest enemy to PVP I see is the queue system. Its been horrible ever since I can remember and we've seen its latest failed use with the Fleet Action queues.
Some may call it "casual"
I personally call it "the game playing itself for you while you watch the afk / autofire comat for 51 levels"
This game revolutionized what people think when they think "casual" gaming
Let's not forget that they did in a way add a new game type as well when they added Fed vs Fed. Something many of us were clamoring for quite loudly. What you don't consider new things to do and play with "content", only new maps are "content". Well that's certainly one heck of a limited view if you ask me...
Now I'm not trying to say it's all peaches and roses. Hell I'd love to see new maps and gametypes as well, and it does indeed take longer for PvP to progress than PvE. Not that people ever played that third game type in space (Fun as it was, hardly anyone ever que'd for it). But don't even try to say Cryptic hasn't done anything at all, because that's just total troll bate for the Devs and you damn well know it.
I like control maps except once taken over why not setup fortifications to hold it? We have lost some maps since launch and one was my favorite where you would beam up tac teams and transport them to an enemy held area so they could take it over. That was an awesome battle!
I personally dont like that we have a warzone PvP a arena PvP and control PvP to compete in. PvP is all about the war. Open PvP will likely kill the ques if there is no challenge and insentive to continue doing the PvP matches.
Strategy needs to play a big part in how the maps and matches play out. This would be best played with territory control. However you could also offer boosts, loot or other things for winning matches as opposed to just playing matches.
Maps should be addressed for both space and ground and the PvP que should IMO just ask for space or ground. Then when it ques up it goes to a random environment for either ground or space. You could end up in a warzone battlefield, a arena battlefield or a control battle field.
Warzone PvP: 10-20 man teams
Space: the fleets are meeting head to head to gain control of the system. NPCs defend strategic points that when captured wins the match.
Ground: the front lines are drawn and away teams face off head to head to secure the planet. NPC defend stategic points that when captured wins the match. (the current ground cc match feels closer to a war zone feel.
Arena PvP: 5 man teams
Basically the same as we have now
Capture and Control: 5-10 man teams
Space: it's close but with capturing a point you set up light defenses to control the point.
Ground: needs to be more like the space variety in conquering a point and controlling it as influence counts down. Conquering a point sets up light defenses to control it.
Maps should have at least 2 variants as well.
Additionally there should be a melee only and shuttle only arena aside from the regular que for PvP.
All the PvP maps that have systems should be territory control PvP zones on timers to offset when they are accessed.
The que should offer you the options of Shuttle PvP, melee PvP, space PvP, ground PvP and territory control PvP. You could always go to the zone for for territoy control.
Sorry, but it's the full truth and hardly trollbait.
There is no PvP gear; the Borg, Aegis, and Breen sets are all gained through PvE.
And you can earn far more Emblems doing PvE than you can through the PvP Dailies. In fact, PvP Dailies are even left out for the Q Double XP/Mission Reward bonuses.
As far as balances passes go, there were needed for the game. No one wants to be playing a broken game. But, they usually the ones that the PvP community proposes? Why? Well, to be frank, there aren't too many PvEers that understand the intricacies of all of the math behind the game (huge props to BigRedJedi and guys like him that go through and figure it all out), and no PvEers ever complain about OP skills since NPCs use 1, at max 2, skills against them.
There were also no "improvements" to the queues; the current version we have now has come about due to the fact that the original queues were flawed and borked.
We've been playing with the same maps and modes forever, and most of us dedicated PvP fans are still here. Imagine having just ONE new mode! or ONE new open instanced system, how far that would go! They spend sooo much time on missions that most players will only do once or twice, and we're asking for content that will last us the games lifetime! It just seems easy, an earlier poster said it best, That we don't need space stations or pretty colors, all we need is the black emptiness of space, and an objective...kill the enemy. It sounds soo easy!
(on a side note, I deperately want to be rid of the oranges and yellows of space in this game, I get it that not all space is black, but this is a trek game, and 90% of trek took place in the blackness of space. So i'd love for some PvP maps to look more like our revamped sector space, where ships actually look alive!!)
There are soo many good PvP ideas on the forums, its just soo sad to me that more doesn't get done.
I don't think they mean to, I just don't think they have a lot of experience in competitive multiplexer content, it shows in every initial release, the lack of balancing in new powers/items ect. It also shows in those Raid PvP zones they had on tribble, ONE SPAWN POINT? I really don't get the fascination with ONE SPAWN POINT, or Even two? why not have several! how hard is that, we do it in arenas? this is space, with nearly infinite directions in which to go, not "i'll walk thru this door, please be waiting on the other side with a phaser pointed at me head" Space zones in this game are so big, why not have an open system with a half dozen objectives spread 50 KM apart and make the teams prioritize, strategize, and actually have to find the enemy? That would be so exciting to have these massive 20 player maps with so much to do, and have multiple spawn points from which to enter. I dunno, I like everyone else has ideas aplenty.
Rant over. I just hope to see SOMETHING soon, not after season 5, or 6...SOON. and wouldn't it be great if that something was something that everyone could enjoy, interest/motivate the rest of the player base to pvp perhaps?
Lies... Aegis, Borg, Breen and Reman along with Emble Mark XI Rare's have supplanted the old PvP gear (In the relatively recent past). But back when it was just Mark X Purples there was a difference between the gear you got from doing exploration, pvp and STFs. The STF gear had borg proc, the pvp gear was more damage oriented and the exploration gear was, well... not.
Some of that Mark X Purps are still better than the MXI Blues as well depending on what trait your shooting for (Some, not all).
Part of the reason for the devs redesigning the queues last year was so that they'd have maps put into a rotation under a single gametype. I know a huge part of the PvP community wanted the queues designed for that reason as the only maps that used to be played were ones at the top of the old listing (C&H or cracked)
For example, when you enter the Space Arena queue, you're assigned a random arena map out of the three available.
Please refrain from calling me a liar unless you have positive proof of it.
There have never been any exclusive PvP gear sets.
ALL of the high end gear is, and can be, acquired through PvE. The closest way to get anything substantial via "PvP" is through Ker'rat... and I say "PvP" because most of the good drops there come from the Borg NPCs.
Aegis = Crafted. (PvE)
Borg = STFs (PvE)
Reman = FE (PvE)
Emblem Mk XIs = PvE/PvP. However, you can get only 3 Emblems from PvP dailies whereas you can get FAR more from the PvE missions.
Before the Borg/Aegis/Breen sets came out, high end PvP gear consisted of Covariant Shield Array Mk X [Cap]x3 along with Purple Mk X weaponry... sold at Battle Group Omega/K7 for Marks earned mostly through PvE.
Again, none of these are PvP sets. Care to revise your statements?
He's absolutely right, I go after the borg just as often as I go after players in Kerrat, it's the only place where there's like 1 chance in 63462572468245725 that a Mk XII rare will drop.
As for PvP content...everyone else has covered it. There's not enough. And the lack of anything else to do has lead me to unsub until something does (and no, foundry isn't content). I'm paid up till the end of the borg invasion, then I'll wait and see if they can manage to save the game.
If the pve'er wants to have that recorded as pvp gear, then yay, we haz pvp gear (lolz). I don't think the other side will ever fully get it; they'll nitpick this or that but will truly never understand the current state of PvP because they only queue up for 3 additional emblems.
Most pvp'ers know why the 3pc borg set is nice for pvp, despite having to pve for it. Imagine if the pve'ers only had 1 map for end game content, and they'll have to replay that over and over again. Just imagine the amount of hate filled forum posts that'll have wishstone working 24-7.
EDIT: Now, imagine that pve content is actually hard, and that the superior set came exclusively through a pvp-only token system. I'm picturing the pve'ers raging about having to pvp to get the quality gear.
Then I'm back to reality, realizing that pve will never amount to anything more than afk/ autofire repetition.
The weapons you could acquire through PvP medals had different traits than those you got from PvE medals. As I already stated and you completely ignored, the PvP weapon gear was more focused on damage often with [CrtD]x2[CrtH] as opposed to [Acc]x2[CrtH]. While a lot of the gear you could get from the vendors at Ganalda, K7 and Battle Group Omega were the same, not all of it was. Sometimes if you wanted a specific trait like more accuracy you needed Exploration points from PvE but if you wanted more Crit Damage etc then you could only get it from PvP medals.
The new Borg / Aegis / Breen / Reman /Emblem gear is all PvE yes, but as I again already stated it's not necessarily the best gear in the game. For most it will do, but if you want a more specific build some are better off with the old MK X Purps, that can be either specific to PvE Medals or PvP Medals depending on what you want (Or available to both as the case may be, again depends on the gear).
Your statements simply ignore the fact that there was and is gear that you can aquire only via PvP (Mark X Purps with specific traits not available to PvE medals). I didn't even mention what Ker'rat drops as I would consider that quasi PvE/PvP.
these days the way to get "pvp gear" though is to get emblems and turn it into honor. loved the honor system but the screwed that anyways..
oh and 3part gear + cov cap3 > everything (except in a few exceptions)
Does it feel like your running up hill yet?
Then in that regard, you are correct. You made it seem like there was a special set of PvP gear that was unobtainable otherwise. For that, I apologize.
Regardless, that gear is fully available through exclusively PvE means as well and has been since last October, making it available available through PvE alone for as long as (actually longer, I think?) than it was PvE "exclusive."
That was not my intent, just that there was gear (With traits) specific to PvP medals. I suppose I should have been more clear, sorry for that.
If that is indeed true, that you can now acquire Mk X Purples with [CtrD]x2[CtrH] through PvE means and not just the [Acc]x2[CrtH] I was used to then that is news to me. Still as you stated and I have as well the Aegis / Borg / Reman / Breen / Emblem gear currently reins supreme (And those are PvE items). Those are the state of things today, my emphasis though was that there was a time in the not to distant past where there was gear specific to PvP vendors, stuff that was created after the game had been out.
The point I was trying to get across though was to show that while Cryptic has been lackluster with PvP content compared to PvE (And they most definitely have been so), they have not completely ignored us and indeed come out with stuff for PvP since the game launch and/or worked on mechanics for PvP, not only just now on Tribble...
Though I am quite excited with what is, finally, coming with Open PvP.
No hard feelings
You can exchange Emblems for Marks of Valor/Exploration/Honor at the USS T'Kumbra at Battle Group Omega at a 1:1 rate.
I personally don't consider tweaking a few modifiers to be PvP content at all, especially since it's easily available through PvE. The real issue is that PvE can cry about things like "My uniform pips don't line up!", "I"m missing a running light on my Intrepid!", "I want more sightseeing!" etc etc, and those get addressed and fixed right up. However, PvP related issues not only don't get any Dev time, they get more or less ignored on the forums. Looking through the Dev tracker, the amount of Dev posts on PvE issues vs PvP is appalling, and in fact, insulting. We are paying customers, after all
If they're gonna add/develop PvP content I'd rather it be an Open Deep Space PvP Sector where people can only go in 1x/week or so (ie if they leave they have to wait 7 days before being able to re-enter). While there ships would take damage like elite PvE and have to scavange and fight over resources to repair their ships. Later add in fleet starbases etc.
I agree that open pvp is what Cryptic should be shooting for, it would keep this game lively for longer time with less input from them... pve maps get old fast and it doesn't matter how many times you Re visit them there still stale.
I however am not willing to give them a pass to do nothing at all until they decide Open PvP is ready. Honestly creating a couple maps should be nothing more then a days work for them. If its more then that they need to revisit there tools. They can't honestly tell me PvP isn't worth 1 day here and there to release a new map. No one cares if it has new objectives or anything else... a couple new basic arena maps isn't asking for much. They will get replay far more often then some lowbie mission revamp.
Exactly.
And like others have said, PvP maps have infinite replayability. We've gone this far on 3 maps, imagine if we had 10.
(And if they don't do mission revamps, how else will they introduce horribly broken and OP weapons? Oh yeah... FEs
How ever I'im sure the problem doesn't have anything to do with "Care" from the develpers, but resources in those areas.. I mean lets face it. They have to, from time to time, run things by CBS before they can even add new content to the game. That can stop many things from being released when they want them to. Who knows.. Maybe the whole reason, beyond not having the resources to do it, has been CBS Getting in the way?
Just trying to play Devil's advocate here. But please, Developers, release moar PVP maps soon.. The PVP Community has been needing something since the 2.0 Que crash.. And then the 3.0 Crash.. and the most recient 4.0 crash.... :rolleyes:
I tried to side with the Devs and give them the benefit of the doubt... but unless they're a one-man team, I can see quite literally no reason why a few hours (and that's being generous) couldn't have been devoted to shoving spawn points on an existing map and giving it to us. It would have done LOADS to make us not feel like completely second-rate customers.
And while I'm on that, we contribute just as much to the C-Store as PvE... just think of all of the Excels/MVAE/Nebulas you see flying around... and all of the respecs we do.
To be honest, the one thing that bothered me.. is why didn't they just allow the players to use the Foundry to make their own PVP Maps? And then the best maps could be voted into the Rotation in the Que system...
That would cost Cryptic what really ? Over 10 months... less then 2 weeks of labour and enough maps to make an entire night of PvP go by with out repeating one map. Honestly 3 maps at launch 3 maps 18 months later... I have played discoed games that get more updates.
I know your just playing Devils Advocate Kila... but I doubt CBS really cares if we fight over the briar patch, or Sector 123456.