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Star Trek Online as a Free-To-Play game
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Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
The subject of this discussion is: Should STO consider the Free-To-Play business model?
Now, before we get into this, let me just quickly clear up a couple misconceptions: Free-To-Play works. It works for a lot of good reasons, and it has been decisively proven that in the Western market it generates more revenue than the monthly subscription. Those who believe that Free-To-Play games generate no money and are doomed to fail, well... I am afraid the jury's back. You are incorrect. F2P works. Even World of Warcraft is on the wagon these days.
The question becomes then, does it work for STO?
I am interested in your opinions. Quickly, let me rattle off mine and then we can get to talking:
Yes, I think STO is a prime candidate for the F2P model. With a wealth of content that potential F2P players would no doubt enjoy in the C-Store, Cryptic could stand to become quite wealthy and competitive in that space.
Two points:
1) Free-To-Play in this game should not equate to Pay-To-Win. Ships and equipment that are more powerful than what are available in the game should not be in the C-Store.
2) Lifetime subscriptions should retain their value, either with C-Store stipend or special access or both.
So, as long as lifers are respected and we don't sell power, I'd be all for such a change. I'm interested in the thoughts of my fellow players. So... Go. Let's hear it.
Now, before we get into this, let me just quickly clear up a couple misconceptions: Free-To-Play works. It works for a lot of good reasons, and it has been decisively proven that in the Western market it generates more revenue than the monthly subscription. Those who believe that Free-To-Play games generate no money and are doomed to fail, well... I am afraid the jury's back. You are incorrect. F2P works. Even World of Warcraft is on the wagon these days.
The question becomes then, does it work for STO?
I am interested in your opinions. Quickly, let me rattle off mine and then we can get to talking:
Yes, I think STO is a prime candidate for the F2P model. With a wealth of content that potential F2P players would no doubt enjoy in the C-Store, Cryptic could stand to become quite wealthy and competitive in that space.
Two points:
1) Free-To-Play in this game should not equate to Pay-To-Win. Ships and equipment that are more powerful than what are available in the game should not be in the C-Store.
2) Lifetime subscriptions should retain their value, either with C-Store stipend or special access or both.
So, as long as lifers are respected and we don't sell power, I'd be all for such a change. I'm interested in the thoughts of my fellow players. So... Go. Let's hear it.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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http://www.champions-online.com/f2p_matrix
http://www.champions-online.com/f2p_faq
As you can see in the F2P matrix above, your LT sub is just as useful then as it is now. And Champs has proven that content doesnt stop once going F2P:
http://www.champions-online.com/node/595390
http://www.champions-online.com/comic_series
http://www.champions-online.com/hideouts
My reasons is that I'm not interested in buying anything from the c-store, if they made STO free then more content would probably end up in the c-store but to be honest I would have prefered all the c-store to be part of the game itself.
An example is I want a Galaxy x ship but don't want to waste all my time trying to find new members or paying out £20 for a ship that is overpriced.
Anyway there are some things they could to help improve costs by adding adverts in suitable area's like finding a ancient coca cola next to item you need to collect or in missions when they go back in time. (Depends on if they improve the STO graphics in ground.
I know some people money to burn on C-store or life time membership but some of us want to enjoy STO as if it was a game like Runescape, maybe even release dlc add-ons like WOW does. Which could also be the reason WOW seems to be the most popular. (Not speaking for myself but the community as it seems to be known for)
I think it would put more pressure on the Devs and make them have to really crank up the content machine.
When a game goes Free to play, the only way for the developer to make money is to make good content that makes the players want to buy it.
Going free to play would bring in a ton of new Players to STO and the Devs would have to keep up with the content demand and make quality content if they want to make any money.
I'd say go for it; however, I'm a Lifer
if it happens i will have no problem with it, but i personally would only implement it if subs are stagnant or declining. if subs are growing then i would not change a winning formula as the change to f2p is always a slight risk, but i think STO would make a good free to play game in the same model as CO. The c-store is already there and in place and i think the quality of sto's presentation, graphics and missions would be a big pulling factor.
i have always found other mmo that are free like lotr and ddo to look a bit poor in presentation. STO is crisp and clean and will attract people, as will the foundry. the official content just needs to be better and the klingons need to be in much better shape.
I don't have a problem with STO going FTP but I just don't know how Cryptic could make it work
IMO there's just not enough content currently in STO for it to go FTP.
I can't see anyone wanting to pay extra for an STF mission or a exploration nebula.
IMO it would take at least another 2 years before STO would be ready to go FTP.
Co model is that 99% of it is free, and only the adventure packs have to be paid for and they are surprisingly cheap.
they limit the game via how much you can create a character and the freedom you have, also the number of character slots and things. the game is virtually all there to play for nothing. there FE comic series they just did was all free and it was awesome.
sto would probably follow a similar pattern.
talking about missconceptions...
first, the western market is VERY clear on this respect. WoW is basically a money printing machine, its WITHOUT a doubt the most profitable game ever.
and its P2P.
ergo P2P and not F2P is and will be the most profitable business model ever. QED
If you have been paying attention, you will have noticed I used the same logical fallacy as you, hasty generalization.
fact is, there are a few F2P games that work and do, indeed, ake a lot of money.
Peope loves bringing Turbine titles up, Runes of Magic also come to mind...and a few more.
fact is, there are hundreds upon hundreds, if not thousands of F2P games besides those.
and where are most of them? dying or dead. Not enough money was made. Total failures. Crashed and burned like the Hindeburg.
the F2P market is starting to be a novelty in the west, pioneered by Turbine. They were right on the track when they moved, perfect timing etc.
the F2P market is getting more and more crowded as of late. Games that failed as P2P arent assured to score big in F2P either now people has more choices to make.
F2P is not the perfect solution you seem to think it is.
and even then, a successful P2P game earns more money than a successful F2P game. Everybdy knows that, thats why NCSoft keep releasing P2P games in a market SO remarkably f2p-biased as asia...because they know if their game lands right, it will make them a lot more money than making it free...
its a 20 levels trial. thats hardly 6 hours of gameplay, total. WoW might jump on the wagon some day but definetly not in the foreseeable future.
and if they do, it wont be because it will ake them more money. it will be to crush the competition, because they can afford it.
However, my only reservation is that many players have already seen a lot of lag/server performance issues. I am worried that the F2P model will bring in such an influx of people wanting to play, without a huge surge in revenue from subscriptions or the C-Store, that they will not be able to maintain/expand the server(s) to keep up, thus causing a performance hit for everybody.
If, however, they can handle it, then I say bring on the F2P!
CO went F2P woulda have probably taken about 50 Millions of Dollars to go F2P, which is why Atari Dropped Cryptic when they purchased CO from them before and after they announced they have dropped Cryptic. so i guess that's why 50 million or more was needed for buyer to take Cryptic. and PWE buyed Cryptic for sum of probably 55 Million to pay Atari.
i'm not sure.. but F2P does cost and takes huge amount of money to go Free to play.
that amount of money used in STO would push STO 25 Levels higher than today of Season 4.
Season 4 would have been full of completed SA, Ships, Maps, 800 more content available today. it coulda have happened but it's just nice thought
You have absolutely no idea what your talking about with those figures. If you have any kind of proof, link to it. But we all know you dont. This is just more unfounded nonsense guessing.
it's general idea of guessing
Whaaaaaat?
Dude, you could make a pretty good feature-length film with that much money. You could make a AAA mainstream video game title. Where in the *world* did you get those figures?
well, i pay attention to what's going on with STO and flow of Money into it. but then again i also guess how much money it takes to go F2P.
true enough, i could make good film or make great video game if i had that kind of money.
Really? Really?
You're going to poo-poo the use of Turbine's success as an indicator of the value of the F2P model out of context, but simultaneously use WoW as an indicator of the P2P model out of context?
Really?
What about all of the P2P games that have crashed and burned?
What about all of the P2P games that have gone F2P and made more money? (including Cryptic's other game)
What about all the P2P games that are introducing F2P-style micro-transactions (which STO already has)?
Remind me, since WoW proves that P2P is invariably the better system, exactly how many companies have emulated the success Blizzard has with WoW? How many of those juggernauts are spattered across the market?
Seriously, you want to talk about engaging in logical fallacies... whoa...
exactly. In fact given the sucess Turbine has had, I'd say MMO makers are finally realizeing that from a profitability POV WoW is not the "prover" it's the EXCEPTION
DDO (wouldn't have played it otherwise)
LOTRO (returned because it's F2P, although I probably would've returned eventually, anyway)
CO (wouldn't have given it a second chance without the F2P model)
CoX (going F2P in a few months, just recently resubbed)
I've said this numerous times before, and it bears repeating here: As long as subbers get something in exchange for their $15/mo, I'd be all for it. Also, let's not forget that it takes quite some time before it would officially change the subscription offers. F2P isn't built in a day.
1 people may get mad if they just got a life time sub before STO went F2P
2 F2P games often end up as pay to win
3 seems STO is fine right now any way with a Pay to play format etc.
If it did go free to play I think there may still be a sub with it (like CO if I recall) where some one could asses most content for free but was left out of better content so payers still get a good game for there money and not think they wasted it.
On CO, we had sudden dev silence, nothing much on the release schedule for several weeks, and then boom, f2p announcement. Methinks history may be repeating itself.
I vote no. Unless the game is going to completely shut down without it, please don't.
I don't think there's really room for another WoW and WoW has saturated so much of the market, everyone else has to plan their MMOs around the idea that their target audience will be playing their game and WoW too or will be playing multiple MMOs. Either way, I don't think the $15 a month sub model is working for anyone else beside WoW anymore.
And even Blizzard is increasing paid services. Stuff like their mobile auction house access for an extra $3 a month, cross server teaming for an additional monthly fee, pets, mounts, etc. And WoW has been investigating the FTP/Freemium option as a nuclear contingency. I believe they stated -- and it may have been sarcasm and it may not -- that they'd convert to freemium at the point when they become the no. 2 MMO, just to climb back on top.
Wgo says FTP people can author Foundry missions? They have limited posting rights and chat capability in CO. A simple function of a Freemium business model is that the game is free to experience but you don't get as much voice or impact in the community, in part because financing won't exist to moderate the massive number of free players. So free accounts, by their nature, have to be "pre-moderated" with limited access to communication tools that require moderation, which would almost certainly include Foundry authorship.
A sub in part pays for our moderation and support. A free player doesn't pay for anything that requires moderation or support and so, in general, doesn't get those services.
a lfietime sub is still worth something, you have all the perks of a subscription, plus they give you a number of store points each month, in essence you're being PAID to play the game
I think the pulling of the free demo for STO is an indicator. I think another indicator is the species specific combadges. The devs said those would be available for anyone who had unlocked those species; thing is, that includes Vulcans, who come with the core game, which suggests a FTP model with fewer core species. (My gut says free players get humans and Klingons free, have to buy other species, and custom aliens will be subscription only the way fully custom characters in Champs are.)
I also think it has to weigh heavy on these plans that:
- The core game is both cheap and hard to find on retail shelves.
- The new publisher distributes games via timecards, not retail boxes, primarily. Hence the idea of a retail box STO seems likely to be replaced with timecards.
Also:
- Infinite Space is coming FTP this fall, challenging the Trek exclusivity for people who only care about playing a Trek game.
- The Old Republic will probably be out by the end of the year, challenging the hold on conventional MMO players.
- What STO has over both is superior space combat and its Featured Episodes which, if engineered right, will be a deluge of content compared to what the other games will release. (Keep in mind TOR will need actors in a sound booth recording FULL dialogue for every content update.) The downside is that players who prefer a conventional MMO are getting lured away on one side and people who don't care about mechanics and play for the Trek IP get pulled from the other.
- Champions faced similar issues with DCU Online and City of Heroes' expansion and managed to hold its own and grow by adopting the Freemium model.
STO needs to take some aggressive action. The most sensible course I can see is threefold:
- Eliminate boxed purchases and go freemium.
- Launch into their planned never-ending stream of Featured Episodes before either TOR or IS get a foothold. They have to market their content as being better and richer than IS and that new content will be more prolifically delivered than TOR.
- Revamp the C-Store to offer cheaper and less permanent/accountwide items and services that people will want to buy more often, to maximize revenues from free players.
and yea this topic poping up on forums on a weekly basis is getting old now
The flipside is more C-Store stuff, possibly above and beyond the value of the points stipend. But there's nothing to limit how much goes on the C-Store under the present model and I find it highly likely that freemium causes them to skew C-Store development in such a way that targets free players more and tries to get them to subscribe.
I think WoW USED TO BE the "prover."
Three things happened.
1) WoW became so entrenched that there's a lot of players you won't pull away from WoW and your best hope of capitalizing on those players is to build your game around the model that WoW is going to get $15 a month from the lion's share of western MMO players and your game needs to assume they aren't leaving WoW and compete to get what those people are willing to spend on top of the $15 they give Blizzard.
2) Competition increased and loyalty diminished. DCU Online? Fantastic game. Incredible production value. But a month spent offline crippled it when a comparable game five years ago wouldn't suffer like that. People tend to launch hop between MMOs now. $15 a month is GREAT if you can have a moderately large base of very loyal players. Besides $15 not being what it used to be (and game production costs going up), your target audience has less disposable income and more choices. Hence loyalty reduction. You can't build games for the loyal. You have to build them around the idea that your audience is fickle, FAR, FAR more fickle than they were 5 years ago, and cater to the idea of dabblers who you constantly entice back into logging in, dabblers who won't login as much and also won't pay as much.
3) The economy tanked. $15 a month won't buy what it did 5 years ago, in terms of development costs. Your average prospective player is also likely to value their $15 more highly than they did 5 years ago and is less likely to have a $15 to spare. I'll point anecdotally to these forums where, once the ragequits stopped, you'll notice that the majority of posts announcing a player quitting suggest that they HOPE to come back but they can't always justify $15 this month. Everytime someone who can't afford $15 on a given month stops playing, you risk losing them. You definitely lose any prospective C-Store sales from them. (By placing the entry point at $15, you miss out on someone who would still spend $5.) You risk the possibility that they'll get distracted. And the economy will get better. And it's not as bad as it could be. But you want to hold onto your customers so they can spend more with you once their wallets are full again.
None of the P2Ps out there today have WoW's player base, and all the people who made their games specifically to compete with WoW have mostly fallen by the wayside. The closest to being "big" was Aion, but you don't really hear TOO much about them anymore - not here, anyway.
*looks at Launcher* No, that already happened.
STO is unlikely to go f2p because it's already charging a subscription for a cash shop game.