So for people to say they don't like the antiquated raiding principles when this game's endgame pve content is as easy as starter content in WoW feels quite like a big whine. And as an idea, a lot of people find the well structured and disciplined raiding as fun, the more discipline and good play the better.
Thankfully, this game is not WoW and so the comparisons should stop right there. Raiding by it's design is exclusionist. For many, the barriers of entry are too high. This is a huge problem in a social game when the community is so divide. I guess some folks are more concerned about their own ego then they are about helping to build a healthy community.
I am sorry for most people that think STFs are difficult (also about myself for thinking that before). It's as simple as 1 word, "pulling". It all comes down to that. I've never had anyone in random STFs answer me when I asked which groups are linked and if you could pull them separately, it was all about rushing in and dying or killing.
So for people to say they don't like the antiquated raiding principles when this game's endgame pve content is as easy as starter content in WoW feels quite like a big whine. And as an idea, a lot of people find the well structured and disciplined raiding as fun, the more discipline and good play the better.
Personally I find the STFs to be too easy but that doesn't mean that I want a WoW style raid mechanic in STO. I played WoW for six years and was a hardcore raider for most of that time taking only very occasional breaks. That having been said I agree that focusing on creating high end raid content that perhaps 10% of your player base is going to fully experience is a losing proposition for a game like STO. We should be focusing on building more STFs and Fleet Actions, sure, but they should be spread through the leveling ranges.
It seems to me that this game has been more about the story of the missions than a gear grind raid system to keep the players occupied with mindless instancing. Yes, I did it for half a decade and I'm perfectly willing to admit that its mindless gear grinding. You think I killed Arthas week after week because I needed to complete the story? I did that the first time I killed him...the other thousand times was because I wanted a mace and after that a chance at a mount.
I for one don't want that particular kind of grind in STO. If I feel the need to put myself through that kind of system again I'll go reactivate my WoW account.
I for one don't want that particular kind of grind in STO. If I feel the need to put myself through that kind of system again I'll go reactivate my WoW account.
Wise words my good man, i 100% agree.
STO is a completly different game with a completely different playerbase.
Adding more "raid" content is just counterproductive, there are much more pressing things to do for the next 5 years IMHO.
Personally I find the STFs to be too easy but that doesn't mean that I want a WoW style raid mechanic in STO. I played WoW for six years and was a hardcore raider for most of that time taking only very occasional breaks. That having been said I agree that focusing on creating high end raid content that perhaps 10% of your player base is going to fully experience is a losing proposition for a game like STO. We should be focusing on building more STFs and Fleet Actions, sure, but they should be spread through the leveling ranges.
It seems to me that this game has been more about the story of the missions than a gear grind raid system to keep the players occupied with mindless instancing. Yes, I did it for half a decade and I'm perfectly willing to admit that its mindless gear grinding. You think I killed Arthas week after week because I needed to complete the story? I did that the first time I killed him...the other thousand times was because I wanted a mace and after that a chance at a mount.
I for one don't want that particular kind of grind in STO. If I feel the need to put myself through that kind of system again I'll go reactivate my WoW account.
That was basically my experience as well having raided during the Burning Crusade exansion up into Sunwell. I'll never play a game like that again.
What we need is group content that's not as overly strenuous in difficulty like typical raiding content, but still requires a team to think and coordinate instead of just running in and gunning down trash enemies for an easy run. It should be something that's open to PUGs, and if a team wants a harder challenge, they can bump it up to advanced or elite for higher drop rates on loot and more rewards. In a way, something close to a simple dungeon crawl experience. And I think this is what the devs are aiming for while they tweak the STFs.
I played WoW for awhile, and there were times where I enjoyed raiding...and times that I didn't. I ultimately left because the game became too centric on it, and everyone around me acted completely obsessed about it. People weren't playing the game, they became slaves to it. They were raiding to get better gear so they can...keep raiding. It was an endless cycle that I was able to see through and escape from before I became too far gone.
I don't want STO to become "raiding" centric, but I also don't want things handed to me on a silver platter. I want challenge, I want to think, I want to plan, but in a healthy way, and NOT wasting 6 hours of my life to run through one freakin' instance.
What we need is group content that's not as overly strenuous in difficulty like typical raiding content, but still requires a team to think and coordinate instead of just running in and gunning down trash enemies for an easy run. It should be something that's open to PUGs, and if a team wants a harder challenge, they can bump it up to advanced or elite for higher drop rates on loot and more rewards. In a way, something close to a simple dungeon crawl experience. And I think this is what the devs are aiming for while they tweak the STFs.
I played WoW for awhile, and there were times where I enjoyed raiding...and times that I didn't. I ultimately left because the game became too centric on it, and everyone around me acted completely obsessed about it. People weren't playing the game, they became slaves to it. They were raiding to get better gear so they can...keep raiding. It was an endless cycle that I was able to see through and escape from before I became too far gone.
I don't want STO to become "raiding" centric, but I also don't want things handed to me on a silver platter. I want challenge, I want to think, I want to plan, but in a healthy way, and NOT wasting 6 hours of my life to run through one freakin' instance.
...I don't want STO to become "raiding" centric, but I also don't want things handed to me on a silver platter. I want challenge, I want to think, I want to plan, but in a healthy way, and NOT wasting 6 hours of my life to run through one freakin' instance.
As long as i can do thigs still on my own, without being dependent on others i am all for it.
Thankfully, this game is not WoW and so the comparisons should stop right there. Raiding by it's design is exclusionist. For many, the barriers of entry are too high. This is a huge problem in a social game when the community is so divide. I guess some folks are more concerned about their own ego then they are about helping to build a healthy community.
My whole point was that this is not raiding, it's barely at the level of the starter instances in WoW in terms of difficulty (the 5 mans that is, like Deadmines if you've played). As for raiding being exclusivist it's a matter of opinion, I've done just fine world top 100 raiding for 6 years with a full time job. Yes, in the end it ended up more like a chore, doing it to help guild mates but while I had fun it was by no means anything but a fun game that I wanted to play.
The way you enjoy a game is something subjective, some just want to log in, press some keys, have some fun and rewards, others aren't happy with just prancing around the world, optimizing and maximizing is fun, using pen and paper and writing software to get the last ounce of power from a character can be a lot of fun, managing to work together with 24 others is a hell of a lot of fun, beating the game is the purpose in any game and it's just as fun as playing 30 min a night to relax. And the time involvement is minimal if you're at the low end (casual fun, couple of nights a week) or high end (short time, high load on content launch, 0 load after clear). The only place where the time required for raiding is high is in the middle, the guilds that aren't great but that keep pushing to clear content, been there and wouldn't do it again.
And I never wrote my post as a request for WoW style raiding but to point out the fact that STO endgame is extremely easy but players have no mechanic to learn how to play in a group, it's simply run in and shoot with everything you got, just like normal mode 1 player ground missions. Literally everyone I've played in a random group with except @rondk's group last night just ignored any basic MMO mechanic and this game doesn't even have tanking in it, not as a core mechanic, and barely any healing.
If anything there needs to be a way to tell people they won't win without some thought. And this by the game since they don't seem to listen to other players.
So ONE member of the content team goes to remaster the STFs and bring a new one to the table for those who enjoy them (there are alot, by the way, despite all the vocal opponents seen on the forums), and it's wasting development time?
Let's see, since the last released STF we've received about 26 episodes + 3 remasters (including Klingon episodes), not including the slew of dailies and the thousands of foundry missions we have at our disposal. Now that 3 of the STFs are getting some long overdue attention that has been requested by the community for over a year now, and getting ONE more added to the catalog, it's a mismanagement of resources. I love it :rolleyes:
This is an MMO. Think of it like a buffet. If theres 1 dish out of 30 that you personally don't like, are you going to complain to the manager and rant about how its a waste of the kitchen's time because YOU don't like that dish? There are many different player types in this game, and it's wise for cryptic to cater to all of them, atleast a little bit.
Personally I find the STFs to be too easy but that doesn't mean that I want a WoW style raid mechanic in STO. I played WoW for six years and was a hardcore raider for most of that time taking only very occasional breaks. That having been said I agree that focusing on creating high end raid content that perhaps 10% of your player base is going to fully experience is a losing proposition for a game like STO. We should be focusing on building more STFs and Fleet Actions, sure, but they should be spread through the leveling ranges.
It seems to me that this game has been more about the story of the missions than a gear grind raid system to keep the players occupied with mindless instancing. Yes, I did it for half a decade and I'm perfectly willing to admit that its mindless gear grinding. You think I killed Arthas week after week because I needed to complete the story? I did that the first time I killed him...the other thousand times was because I wanted a mace and after that a chance at a mount.
I for one don't want that particular kind of grind in STO. If I feel the need to put myself through that kind of system again I'll go reactivate my WoW account.
You killed Arthas week after week to get all your guildies Invincible and gear, or to get one yourself if you hadn't earlier. Optimizing your own character and guild loyalty are the two things that make the grind bearable and fun and oh, drunk raiding.
And to be perfectly honest getting fully purple equipped in STO is a much more boring grind than WoW. Doing the same thing day in and day out is boring, and the snail pace movement around the world doesn't help either. Doing one relaxed raid one night a week I can handle.
But PvP and space combat is fun, hopefully new ground will be nice also. And it's Star Trek.
As long as i can do thigs still on my own, without being dependent on others i am all for it.
Live long and prosper.
Hence my disdain for raiding centric content. At least STO offers me plenty of things to do on my own and does a waaay better job on emphasizing the fact that my characters can stand on their own two feet and not be so dependent on others, and surprisingly my Bridge Officers don't interfere with this, despite needing them for away missions.
In WoW, all I did was dailies...and sat around waiting for 5 mans or my guildmates to come on for raiding. I felt powerless and unable to do anything worthwhile on my own.
MMOs are simply a virtual world that supports many connections. The content direction is up to the developers and does not necessarily imply any requirement that players must group in order to be designated an MMO. In other words, there is room for different playstyles, not just yours.
My whole point was that this is not raiding, it's barely at the level of the starter instances in WoW in terms of difficulty (the 5 mans that is, like Deadmines if you've played). As for raiding being exclusivist it's a matter of opinion, I've done just fine world top 100 raiding for 6 years with a full time job. Yes, in the end it ended up more like a chore, doing it to help guild mates but while I had fun it was by no means anything but a fun game that I wanted to play.
The way you enjoy a game is something subjective, some just want to log in, press some keys, have some fun and rewards, others aren't happy with just prancing around the world, optimizing and maximizing is fun, using pen and paper and writing software to get the last ounce of power from a character can be a lot of fun, managing to work together with 24 others is a hell of a lot of fun, beating the game is the purpose in any game and it's just as fun as playing 30 min a night to relax. And the time involvement is minimal if you're at the low end (casual fun, couple of nights a week) or high end (short time, high load on content launch, 0 load after clear). The only place where the time required for raiding is high is in the middle, the guilds that aren't great but that keep pushing to clear content, been there and wouldn't do it again.
And I never wrote my post as a request for WoW style raiding but to point out the fact that STO endgame is extremely easy but players have no mechanic to learn how to play in a group, it's simply run in and shoot with everything you got, just like normal mode 1 player ground missions. Literally everyone I've played in a random group with except @rondk's group last night just ignored any basic MMO mechanic and this game doesn't even have tanking in it, not as a core mechanic, and barely any healing.
If anything there needs to be a way to tell people they won't win without some thought. And this by the game since they don't seem to listen to other players.
I won't disagree.
If there is to be group content in the game, there needs to be a way for players to get used to the 'new' concept and teach the proper mechanics. Sure, I can buy that.
However, the content this 'training' is meant for also needs to be accessible and consumable for more than just the minority of players who have the time and dedication. That's the problem I had with WoW during the time I played it. You couldn't really raid casually and expect to see all of the content. I understand that this has changed somewhat but the fact remains, barriers for entry are still too high.
Raid content should morph into event driven community content agnostic of group sizes. It should focus on getting the community invovled in the experience and not curtailed for small sections of the population.
If you dont want to team up to get rewards dont play an MMO, go buy an old copy of bridge commander.
If your gonna cry about not having a borg set man up and go play them.
The new easy mode on the stfs will make the walks in the park. (if you havent read gozers updates I highly recommend you do...hell you dont even need to jump in the new easy mode infected
As long as i can do thigs still on my own, without being dependent on others i am all for it.
Yeah, other people just make MMOs such a drag. By the way, it's not the community who's calling this game an MMO, it's Cryptic.
I'm actually surprised to see so much resistance to making something in this game challenging. Actually, the discourse is fascinating.
"The STFs are too difficult."
"Can we get a difficulty slider?"
"Why don't I ever get a purple item in a loot drop?"
"Don't give us l33t gear that we have to work for."
I feel, at times, the concept of gaming is lost on a group of people who feel entitled to everything that is published. Perhaps it's that 'Star Trek' is in the game title, because I don't think the WoW forums were ever lit up by as many people demanding a level 78 Staff of Defenestration or whatever gear measures up to *AMAZING* in that game.
I'd hate to say it, but the forums are a great place to meet people who are having issues with the more difficult content. You could communicate with them and organize a party to complete the content, and possibly find experienced players to help as well. Not to quote anyone special, but:
What we need is group content that's not as overly strenuous in difficulty like typical raiding content, but still requires a team to think and coordinate instead of just running in and gunning down trash enemies for an easy run. It should be something that's open to PUGs, and if a team wants a harder challenge, they can bump it up to advanced or elite for higher drop rates on loot and more rewards. In a way, something close to a simple dungeon crawl experience. And I think this is what the devs are aiming for while they tweak the STFs.
I played WoW for awhile, and there were times where I enjoyed raiding...and times that I didn't. I ultimately left because the game became too centric on it, and everyone around me acted completely obsessed about it. People weren't playing the game, they became slaves to it. They were raiding to get better gear so they can...keep raiding. It was an endless cycle that I was able to see through and escape from before I became too far gone.
I don't want STO to become "raiding" centric, but I also don't want things handed to me on a silver platter. I want challenge, I want to think, I want to plan, but in a healthy way, and NOT wasting 6 hours of my life to run through one freakin' instance.
You killed Arthas week after week to get all your guildies Invincible and gear, or to get one yourself if you hadn't earlier. Optimizing your own character and guild loyalty are the two things that make the grind bearable and fun and oh, drunk raiding.
And to be perfectly honest getting fully purple equipped in STO is a much more boring grind than WoW. Doing the same thing day in and day out is boring, and the snail pace movement around the world doesn't help either. Doing one relaxed raid one night a week I can handle.
But PvP and space combat is fun, hopefully new ground will be nice also. And it's Star Trek.
In some ways I agree with you and I absolutely do want more STFs and group content what I don't really want is WoW style raiding. It just doesn't fit the game.
I was a fairly hard core raider in WoW. I loved it. I still consider some of the server-first boss kills my guild had as some of my greatest gaming accomplishments.
I don't think the Ent-F will be, nor should it be, an STF reward. STO has a nice type of content that is perfect for this purpose, the Featured Episodes.
They are solo and group playable, level scaled, and story driven. An FE that introduces the new Ent-F and as a reward at the end allows you to get the new class of ship would be perfect.
If you dont want to team up to get rewards dont play an MMO, go buy an old copy of bridge commander.
If your gonna cry about not having a borg set man up and go play them.
The new easy mode on the stfs will make the walks in the park. (if you havent read gozers updates I highly recommend you do...hell you dont even need to jump in the new easy mode infected
Man you should go out and look for a new argument, because this one is older than dirt.
Why do people always feel the need to bring this up, anytime anyone asks anything about solo playing?
People enjoy soloing in MMOs for the same reason some people are naturally less socially interactive in real life, its a preference. I personally hate having to wait/rely on people all the time, the majority of the time I have an agenda for the day and I want to see it met at my own pace.
Fortunately, times change.
MMO's don't stand for forced teaming anymore, MMO just means "a lot of players share the same game" not more, not less.
Only beacuse old MMO's forced players to group, doesn't mean that this has to be forever that way.
I am glad the the Devs decided NOT to force us to play a certain way but to give us the choice, to play as we want, THAT's the future of MMO's, THAT's how you get costumers, NOT by forcing them to play in a way they don't like.
And that's why i like STO, it gives me the choice to play with others when i want to.
I like it because it's a STAR TREK GAME.
I like to share the game with others (talk with others, see them on ESD for example).
But i absolutely don't like to be forced to play with them.
Give me a star trek game with that much customization, an open ended story (i hate games that are over after 20 hours playing), Space AND ground part and growing content.
If you give me that game you will never hear from me again, promised.
I believe Dan said it would be available as a reward for a difficult mission.
I have seen cryptic back-peddle time and time again. At this point it wouldn't surprise me if Cryptic decided that the Enterprise F would be a reward added to Lifetime subs.
I have seen cryptic back-peddle time and time again. At this point it wouldn't surprise me if Cryptic decided that the Enterprise F would be a reward added to Lifetime subs.
Considering that I really play only Science officers I don't think a cruiser is going to be much of a reward when it comes to convincing me to buy a lifetime sub. I normally wouldn't do this but considering its my theme of the day I'll make an exception: If they were to get the Romulans playable now that would go a long way toward me buying a life time subscription...even at full price.
Wow, lots of negativity regarding having to play with other people in an MMO here!
Personally I love grouping with other players and taking on foes that I wouldn't be able to take down alone, I've been playing MMO's and raiding in them for around 10 years now, I've witnesed the trend go from 200+ people raids, down to 40+, down to 20+, down to 10+. I genuinely find it a great shame that more and more people playing MMO's don't want to actually communicate or group up with other players.
I do understand that some people feel they don't have the time to raid in a game, afterall, been able to put a couple of hours aside is not possable for some people, but I fail to see why this means that raiding and group content should be percieved as 'ruining' the genre, when it's actually one of the things, imho, that has made it so strong in the first place!
I've always liked the idea that raiding should reward the players that team up and conquer difficult foes, although at the same time, I love systems where solo players can also obtain the same rewards (in a longer process though). I really hope they tweak the Fleet Actions as well as the STF's to give fleets more things to do together as well.
As for the Enterprise-F, I'd be fine with it been obtainable though the STF system, although there should be other means for players to get it via solo play, perhaps having pre-requisates like having max Diplomacy and max crafting, or some pre-requisate that takes time, or maybe from a solo mission that you can actually fail if you don't to it properly (it shouldn't be too easy to get afterall).
Man you should go out and look for a new argument, because this one is older than dirt.
Why do people always feel the need to bring this up, anytime anyone asks anything about solo playing?
People enjoy soloing in MMOs for the same reason some people are naturally less socially interactive in real life, its a preference. I personally hate having to wait/rely on people all the time, the majority of the time I have an agenda for the day and I want to see it met at my own pace.
Fortunately, times change.
MMO's don't stand for forced teaming anymore, MMO just means "a lot of players share the same game" not more, not less.
Only beacuse old MMO's forced players to group, doesn't mean that this has to be forever that way.
I am glad the the Devs decided NOT to force us to play a certain way but to give us the choice, to play as we want, THAT's the future of MMO's, THAT's how you get costumers, NOT by forcing them to play in a way they don't like.
And that's why i like STO, it gives me the choice to play with others when i want to.
I like it because it's a STAR TREK GAME.
I like to share the game with others (talk with others, see them on ESD for example).
But i absolutely don't like to be forced to play with them.
Give me a star trek game with that much customization, an open ended story (i hate games that are over after 20 hours playing), Space AND ground part and growing content.
If you give me that game you will never hear from me again, promised.
Live long and prosper.
I am glad to be one of your NPC's.
I wasnt saying you HAVE to group. Just that certain content and certain rewards will be for groups.
I mean if the borg set and 1 of the many ways of getting the Ent-F is via stfs how big a deal is that. They make up like what...maybe 0.5% of the content in the game the rest is soloable.
I wasnt saying you HAVE to group. Just that certain content and certain rewards will be for groups.
I mean if the borg set and 1 of the many ways of getting the Ent-F is via stfs how big a deal is that. They make up like what...maybe 0.5% of the content in the game the rest is soloable.
Sorry i must have missed that.
I think it would be somehow unfair to restrict something like a really powerful mission reward to just one group of players.
I think there should be more ways to get something like that, either through crafting or grinding somehow.
(no offense really, but i think the borg set should also be craftable, at least something that increases the speed in sector space)
Something i have noticed:
Courious, there are a lot of people having no problem with doing STF, these are mostly players that are already familiar ith MMOs, some of them are not very much into Star Trek they just like the Sci -Fi aspect.
I know that some of them will go to the next big Sci-Fi MMO when it's released.
And there are the other players, those who started playing MMOs with STO because they are so much into Star Trek (but not necessarily MMOs), and many of them are not interested at all in doing Group oriented missions.
So IF the Enterprise would be only archievable by doing STFs, those player who started playing MMOs just because they are so much into Star Trek, would be forced to do STFs (something they are not interested in)?
Ok i may have exaggerated a bit, but i hope you understand my point.
STO is a game for both groups IMO, and thus both groups (playstyles) should get the chance to get the Enterprise -F.
Well, theories aside, I think that different options to obtain the new cruiser wouldn't necessarily be a bad idea. All we know at this point is that it will tentatively be an award for a special mission of some kind, but that doesn't rule out the possibility of it being obtainable elsewhere.
It could be the STF, a first place reward for a new Fleet Action, a unique Episode reward, or even a hard to get accolade or optional objective in any of the above. No matter what method(s) we see, I do think that it should not be easily obtained.
Comments
Thankfully, this game is not WoW and so the comparisons should stop right there. Raiding by it's design is exclusionist. For many, the barriers of entry are too high. This is a huge problem in a social game when the community is so divide. I guess some folks are more concerned about their own ego then they are about helping to build a healthy community.
Personally I find the STFs to be too easy but that doesn't mean that I want a WoW style raid mechanic in STO. I played WoW for six years and was a hardcore raider for most of that time taking only very occasional breaks. That having been said I agree that focusing on creating high end raid content that perhaps 10% of your player base is going to fully experience is a losing proposition for a game like STO. We should be focusing on building more STFs and Fleet Actions, sure, but they should be spread through the leveling ranges.
It seems to me that this game has been more about the story of the missions than a gear grind raid system to keep the players occupied with mindless instancing. Yes, I did it for half a decade and I'm perfectly willing to admit that its mindless gear grinding. You think I killed Arthas week after week because I needed to complete the story? I did that the first time I killed him...the other thousand times was because I wanted a mace and after that a chance at a mount.
I for one don't want that particular kind of grind in STO. If I feel the need to put myself through that kind of system again I'll go reactivate my WoW account.
Wise words my good man, i 100% agree.
STO is a completly different game with a completely different playerbase.
Adding more "raid" content is just counterproductive, there are much more pressing things to do for the next 5 years IMHO.
Live long and prosper.
That was basically my experience as well having raided during the Burning Crusade exansion up into Sunwell. I'll never play a game like that again.
we currently have a grand total of four five man missions. We will be getting another to take it 6.
Not exactly alot.
We currently only have 5 man, not 10 man, not 20 man...
They are optional. Play them dont play them, it doesnt realy matter.
Why does a few tweaks on the few we have scare so many people into thinking the game has turned into Wow?
Its not like the only real way of getting purple mk xi is from these missions. You run round doing solo stuff to get embelms to buy the high end gear.
I played WoW for awhile, and there were times where I enjoyed raiding...and times that I didn't. I ultimately left because the game became too centric on it, and everyone around me acted completely obsessed about it. People weren't playing the game, they became slaves to it. They were raiding to get better gear so they can...keep raiding. It was an endless cycle that I was able to see through and escape from before I became too far gone.
I don't want STO to become "raiding" centric, but I also don't want things handed to me on a silver platter. I want challenge, I want to think, I want to plan, but in a healthy way, and NOT wasting 6 hours of my life to run through one freakin' instance.
Thank you. Exactly my thoughts.
First, because the Borg set is a exclusive reward for doing the STFs. (no warp 14 for anyone else)
Second, Redoing them csots valuable developement time, that could be needed elsewhere.
Thrid, it doesn't matter if that raid if for 5 or 150, some of us just don't like that whole concept.
Live long and prosper.
Live long and prosper.
My whole point was that this is not raiding, it's barely at the level of the starter instances in WoW in terms of difficulty (the 5 mans that is, like Deadmines if you've played). As for raiding being exclusivist it's a matter of opinion, I've done just fine world top 100 raiding for 6 years with a full time job. Yes, in the end it ended up more like a chore, doing it to help guild mates but while I had fun it was by no means anything but a fun game that I wanted to play.
The way you enjoy a game is something subjective, some just want to log in, press some keys, have some fun and rewards, others aren't happy with just prancing around the world, optimizing and maximizing is fun, using pen and paper and writing software to get the last ounce of power from a character can be a lot of fun, managing to work together with 24 others is a hell of a lot of fun, beating the game is the purpose in any game and it's just as fun as playing 30 min a night to relax. And the time involvement is minimal if you're at the low end (casual fun, couple of nights a week) or high end (short time, high load on content launch, 0 load after clear). The only place where the time required for raiding is high is in the middle, the guilds that aren't great but that keep pushing to clear content, been there and wouldn't do it again.
And I never wrote my post as a request for WoW style raiding but to point out the fact that STO endgame is extremely easy but players have no mechanic to learn how to play in a group, it's simply run in and shoot with everything you got, just like normal mode 1 player ground missions. Literally everyone I've played in a random group with except @rondk's group last night just ignored any basic MMO mechanic and this game doesn't even have tanking in it, not as a core mechanic, and barely any healing.
If anything there needs to be a way to tell people they won't win without some thought. And this by the game since they don't seem to listen to other players.
Let's see, since the last released STF we've received about 26 episodes + 3 remasters (including Klingon episodes), not including the slew of dailies and the thousands of foundry missions we have at our disposal. Now that 3 of the STFs are getting some long overdue attention that has been requested by the community for over a year now, and getting ONE more added to the catalog, it's a mismanagement of resources. I love it :rolleyes:
This is an MMO. Think of it like a buffet. If theres 1 dish out of 30 that you personally don't like, are you going to complain to the manager and rant about how its a waste of the kitchen's time because YOU don't like that dish? There are many different player types in this game, and it's wise for cryptic to cater to all of them, atleast a little bit.
You killed Arthas week after week to get all your guildies Invincible and gear, or to get one yourself if you hadn't earlier. Optimizing your own character and guild loyalty are the two things that make the grind bearable and fun and oh, drunk raiding.
And to be perfectly honest getting fully purple equipped in STO is a much more boring grind than WoW. Doing the same thing day in and day out is boring, and the snail pace movement around the world doesn't help either. Doing one relaxed raid one night a week I can handle.
But PvP and space combat is fun, hopefully new ground will be nice also. And it's Star Trek.
Hence my disdain for raiding centric content. At least STO offers me plenty of things to do on my own and does a waaay better job on emphasizing the fact that my characters can stand on their own two feet and not be so dependent on others, and surprisingly my Bridge Officers don't interfere with this, despite needing them for away missions.
In WoW, all I did was dailies...and sat around waiting for 5 mans or my guildmates to come on for raiding. I felt powerless and unable to do anything worthwhile on my own.
Massively Multiplayer
Let's not regurgitate this strawman.
MMOs are simply a virtual world that supports many connections. The content direction is up to the developers and does not necessarily imply any requirement that players must group in order to be designated an MMO. In other words, there is room for different playstyles, not just yours.
I completely agree with this
I won't disagree.
If there is to be group content in the game, there needs to be a way for players to get used to the 'new' concept and teach the proper mechanics. Sure, I can buy that.
However, the content this 'training' is meant for also needs to be accessible and consumable for more than just the minority of players who have the time and dedication. That's the problem I had with WoW during the time I played it. You couldn't really raid casually and expect to see all of the content. I understand that this has changed somewhat but the fact remains, barriers for entry are still too high.
Raid content should morph into event driven community content agnostic of group sizes. It should focus on getting the community invovled in the experience and not curtailed for small sections of the population.
What I didn't mention is that one style should not overshadow all the others with the rewards they offer.
If your gonna cry about not having a borg set man up and go play them.
The new easy mode on the stfs will make the walks in the park. (if you havent read gozers updates I highly recommend you do...hell you dont even need to jump in the new easy mode infected
Yeah, other people just make MMOs such a drag. By the way, it's not the community who's calling this game an MMO, it's Cryptic.
I'm actually surprised to see so much resistance to making something in this game challenging. Actually, the discourse is fascinating.
I feel, at times, the concept of gaming is lost on a group of people who feel entitled to everything that is published. Perhaps it's that 'Star Trek' is in the game title, because I don't think the WoW forums were ever lit up by as many people demanding a level 78 Staff of Defenestration or whatever gear measures up to *AMAZING* in that game.
I'd hate to say it, but the forums are a great place to meet people who are having issues with the more difficult content. You could communicate with them and organize a party to complete the content, and possibly find experienced players to help as well. Not to quote anyone special, but:
I agree with this statement.
In some ways I agree with you and I absolutely do want more STFs and group content what I don't really want is WoW style raiding. It just doesn't fit the game.
I don't think the Ent-F will be, nor should it be, an STF reward. STO has a nice type of content that is perfect for this purpose, the Featured Episodes.
They are solo and group playable, level scaled, and story driven. An FE that introduces the new Ent-F and as a reward at the end allows you to get the new class of ship would be perfect.
Man you should go out and look for a new argument, because this one is older than dirt.
Why do people always feel the need to bring this up, anytime anyone asks anything about solo playing?
People enjoy soloing in MMOs for the same reason some people are naturally less socially interactive in real life, its a preference. I personally hate having to wait/rely on people all the time, the majority of the time I have an agenda for the day and I want to see it met at my own pace.
Fortunately, times change.
MMO's don't stand for forced teaming anymore, MMO just means "a lot of players share the same game" not more, not less.
Only beacuse old MMO's forced players to group, doesn't mean that this has to be forever that way.
I am glad the the Devs decided NOT to force us to play a certain way but to give us the choice, to play as we want, THAT's the future of MMO's, THAT's how you get costumers, NOT by forcing them to play in a way they don't like.
And that's why i like STO, it gives me the choice to play with others when i want to.
I like it because it's a STAR TREK GAME.
I like to share the game with others (talk with others, see them on ESD for example).
But i absolutely don't like to be forced to play with them.
Give me a star trek game with that much customization, an open ended story (i hate games that are over after 20 hours playing), Space AND ground part and growing content.
If you give me that game you will never hear from me again, promised.
Live long and prosper.
I have seen cryptic back-peddle time and time again. At this point it wouldn't surprise me if Cryptic decided that the Enterprise F would be a reward added to Lifetime subs.
Considering that I really play only Science officers I don't think a cruiser is going to be much of a reward when it comes to convincing me to buy a lifetime sub. I normally wouldn't do this but considering its my theme of the day I'll make an exception: If they were to get the Romulans playable now that would go a long way toward me buying a life time subscription...even at full price.
Personally I love grouping with other players and taking on foes that I wouldn't be able to take down alone, I've been playing MMO's and raiding in them for around 10 years now, I've witnesed the trend go from 200+ people raids, down to 40+, down to 20+, down to 10+. I genuinely find it a great shame that more and more people playing MMO's don't want to actually communicate or group up with other players.
I do understand that some people feel they don't have the time to raid in a game, afterall, been able to put a couple of hours aside is not possable for some people, but I fail to see why this means that raiding and group content should be percieved as 'ruining' the genre, when it's actually one of the things, imho, that has made it so strong in the first place!
I've always liked the idea that raiding should reward the players that team up and conquer difficult foes, although at the same time, I love systems where solo players can also obtain the same rewards (in a longer process though). I really hope they tweak the Fleet Actions as well as the STF's to give fleets more things to do together as well.
As for the Enterprise-F, I'd be fine with it been obtainable though the STF system, although there should be other means for players to get it via solo play, perhaps having pre-requisates like having max Diplomacy and max crafting, or some pre-requisate that takes time, or maybe from a solo mission that you can actually fail if you don't to it properly (it shouldn't be too easy to get afterall).
I am glad to be one of your NPC's.
I wasnt saying you HAVE to group. Just that certain content and certain rewards will be for groups.
I mean if the borg set and 1 of the many ways of getting the Ent-F is via stfs how big a deal is that. They make up like what...maybe 0.5% of the content in the game the rest is soloable.
I think it would be somehow unfair to restrict something like a really powerful mission reward to just one group of players.
I think there should be more ways to get something like that, either through crafting or grinding somehow.
(no offense really, but i think the borg set should also be craftable, at least something that increases the speed in sector space)
Something i have noticed:
Courious, there are a lot of people having no problem with doing STF, these are mostly players that are already familiar ith MMOs, some of them are not very much into Star Trek they just like the Sci -Fi aspect.
I know that some of them will go to the next big Sci-Fi MMO when it's released.
And there are the other players, those who started playing MMOs with STO because they are so much into Star Trek (but not necessarily MMOs), and many of them are not interested at all in doing Group oriented missions.
So IF the Enterprise would be only archievable by doing STFs, those player who started playing MMOs just because they are so much into Star Trek, would be forced to do STFs (something they are not interested in)?
Ok i may have exaggerated a bit, but i hope you understand my point.
STO is a game for both groups IMO, and thus both groups (playstyles) should get the chance to get the Enterprise -F.
Live long and prosper.
It could be the STF, a first place reward for a new Fleet Action, a unique Episode reward, or even a hard to get accolade or optional objective in any of the above. No matter what method(s) we see, I do think that it should not be easily obtained.
We'll just have to wait and see.