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So this is probably an old idea or bad idea
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Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
But I was wondering that if given the trend of the KDF and Starfleet to cooperate in the end game content to beat back folks like the Borg and Undine, and not just openly zapping each others heads off in the places like Deferi space and so on, if it'd be possible at some point to maybe open the fence to KDF toons that are maybe Federation friendly or something?
Open up mission on both sides so that players can team together from different factions to run through content.
It doesn't make sense to me to have "exclusivity" when one side is rediculously over balanced to it's other half. Why not share the fun and ease the work load. Like the old saying goes "if it ain't broke don't fix it."
Maybe allow Fleets the option to accept members from both factions and allow them to team together or something? I don't know.
Just seems silly to continue this line in space nonsense when we just nullify it in Gamma Orionis/End game content.
And that's the other thing. If we aren't going to let go of this whole "The KDF and Fed have to be at war" Then can we at least have some open pvp areas? it seems silly to me that I can go into a DSE in Pi Canis, but I can't do anything except fly around and watch the Fed players beat on the mobs. At least let me help either side.
I dunno. Figured I'd toss some ideas out instead of crying about how there's no content or that the dev's broke the game or whatever other silly conception it is anytime someone offers some constructive advice about Klingons. I'd love feedback as well, if we can hammer something presentable out to give the dev's I'd be thrilled.
Open up mission on both sides so that players can team together from different factions to run through content.
It doesn't make sense to me to have "exclusivity" when one side is rediculously over balanced to it's other half. Why not share the fun and ease the work load. Like the old saying goes "if it ain't broke don't fix it."
Maybe allow Fleets the option to accept members from both factions and allow them to team together or something? I don't know.
Just seems silly to continue this line in space nonsense when we just nullify it in Gamma Orionis/End game content.
And that's the other thing. If we aren't going to let go of this whole "The KDF and Fed have to be at war" Then can we at least have some open pvp areas? it seems silly to me that I can go into a DSE in Pi Canis, but I can't do anything except fly around and watch the Fed players beat on the mobs. At least let me help either side.
I dunno. Figured I'd toss some ideas out instead of crying about how there's no content or that the dev's broke the game or whatever other silly conception it is anytime someone offers some constructive advice about Klingons. I'd love feedback as well, if we can hammer something presentable out to give the dev's I'd be thrilled.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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It's been proposed that you can choose whether you want to be alligned with a Federation-Friendly house or one that opposes the Federation-Klingon Alliance and that this would affect the type of missions you get.
It would not affect PvP, so you could still only do KvK and KvF, only that KvF would then be a "wargame" like FvF.
There've also been numerous requests to make it possible to run STFs together or allow cooperation in missions where this woudl make sense like in Gamma Orionis.
But until now it's all postponed to "hope this can be done eventually".
If you want to be a supreme ***** about it you can go into DSE's and heal the enemies. You could also heal the Feds. That's helping. When we were first allowed access I accidently found out I could heal the Gorn in there. I apologized to the poor fed who was struggling to fight him then stuck around and healed the Fed for a while.
Hmm, wonder if it's because we're only "12%" of the population. Must not matter much in the long run I guess.
They could have at least made a better effort to providing a less tedius grind. I wouldn't mind what little content there is if it didn't bore me to sleep doing it.
Well, the fun, or sad when you think about it, part about that is that people from both sides have asked for a cooperative feature so it's not a 12% problem.:)
I say keep it limited to Gamma Orionis. The ongoing conflict is necessary to give PvP and a good chunk of UFP content meaning. An Open PvP sector is being thought about by the devs, by the way.
I tend to believe that those left playing STO are made up of three groups - Hardcore Trekkies desperate for a ST MMO, Casual Trekkies looking for a fun little ST game, and hardcore STO fans. Given that this is a game, where the first Klingon toon unlocked is a bonus character slot, I doubt the reluctance to play Klingon has anything to do with how they feel about Klingons in Trek or how they would ally themselves at a con (if all STOers were con goers which I would bet that most are not).
Back to the OP topic though - The ability to play cooperatively is needed in the STF's and such, but there it makes sense as the Federation has finally realized the Undine threat (story-wise) which was the bone of contention between the two factions to begin with.
That being said, the game is built on the two factions being at war, changing that would have major repercussions for the entire game. The one thing I will certainly credit the STO writers with doing is keeping true to the spirit of Trek since TNG - they didn't make the "bad guys" in this case Klingons for a good portion of Fed content one dimensional, they idea that bad guys tend to be simply acting in their own self-interest has been retained and thankfully we have a KDF faction that reflects this.
honestly it never really felt like a war to me at all, it seems all the klingons ever did that was truely horrible was attack star base 24, at least from my point of view. Yes we fight them in pvp but outside of the questgivers mentioning the war and the one klingon story line about going back in time and augmenting them, i never really felt threatened, it mostly just felt like I was going around doing normal ST stuff in the most boring way possible, and that all the enemies were those poor fellows who's actions were not sponsored by their government kind of thing.
Well there was that "little" raid on the Mars Shipyards too.
Well, first of all the idea predates the revelation that there will most likely never be a propler Klingon Campaign and the idea was to give the Klingons two alternatives.
Second: The Federation "The Kuvah'Magh" mission clearly shows that there are still Klingons who are interested in ending this war, aside from the fact that it was a dunb throwback into the 1960's like whenever people run out of ideas in Star Trek it's always a good idea to throw in a few evil Klingons.
Third when proposing ideas like these makes me a traitor well then I'd say so long and thanks for the fish, certainly a good reason not to sopport this faction any longer, thank you very much.
I don't remember, but sadly I don't think the Fed side of the game has any mention of that one. It would be nice if the instances like these at least get mentioned - perhaps by NPC's to the other side.
Walking around ESD hearing - "Did you hear about Klingon raid on the Mars Shipyards?" Or on Qo'noS "Did you hear about the failure at Star base 24? Many a great warrior died with honor that day."
Of course there are those exceptions. I'm just saying that player character content should be "mainstream". Or, the other alternative, at least be "unified" (as in: forcing every Klingon player to be part of this rather than splitting the already small playerbase in two).
I thought it was clear that this was directed at characters betraying the Empire by helping the Federation - and not very serious, anyways. You need to relax a bit.
Campaign as in something PvE story-driven like we have on the Federation side, I was not referring to RvR.
"[...]the KDF will never have as many episodes as the Feds in the short term[...]"
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showpost.php?p=3269588&postcount=658
The characters would not care if there was content, the players do.
Which means if the traitors you mentioned have more content, those would be the players not the characters.
So either you made it very unclear unintentionally or you originally had something else in mind.
Besides, it's very unlikely that most players would only make one character or more than one character only to have them all on the same side and I'm not sure why this would fracture the Klingons even further because in the current PvP environment it would make no actual difference as I pointed out.
And even if it did, when we're fighting one another we're still all warriors, all Klingons as Kurn put it in "Redemption"pt2.
And throwing the word traitor around in a Klingon forum is a serious accusation when you stop to think about it.
And that particular Klingon who fought B'vat did so because B'vat had used treachery and took hostages, all very dishonorable actions.
"The team is super excited to continue bringing these new stories into the game as well as continuing the story we start with the Undine/Borg/Fek'ihri/Iconians and the war between the Fed/KLg."
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showpost.php?p=3044442&postcount=2
"We do want to introduce conflict between our main factions in future episodes."
"We really need to go back and tell the story of why the KDF and FED are at war and build some content around that whole neutral zone conflict. I'm not sure how fast we'll be able to make this (we've been talking about it for a while) but I'm hopeful that once UGC is available - the constant content pressure will be off my team enough that we can take a breather and work on something like this."
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showpost.php?p=3016579&postcount=25
"What we really need to do is focus on the entire purpose we set the game to be in a time when the Federation and Klingon faction is at war and develop that storyline and make it an integral part of the game. Right now it is a little bit of everything and it needs focus."
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?p=2915436#post2915436
You are confusing content with the ongoing war. Content can be the KvF war just as much as it can be anything else. Will we ever have as much content as the Federation? No. But does this mean that we have to give up being our own faction and instead become a subfaction of the Feds, leeching off their content? I say no to that, too. Aside from taking away the status of Klingons as their own faction with their own politics, this would also mean even less Klingon-specific content, as the devs would just point us to UFP stuff.
And this is not even going into what future factions such as the Romulans would have to expect from such a development. This would really diminish every non-Starfleet character to be an "addon" to the Federation experience like in the TV series, and turn STO into a Starfleet game.
Huh? I don't care for any out-of-character reasons when I am talking about the characters. Someone fighting against the Empire is someone fighting against the Empire, and he would likely have his own reasons to do so - even if his player did not care to provide them, I will keep calling such characters out for what they are.
As for their players, I understand the concern about the amount of content, but at the same time I am somewhat saddened that they would surrender the chances the current political situation gives us.
Well, for starters, not every character would (or should) even get to select whether he or she joins this Federation alliance, as the Orion Syndicate is an entity hunted by Starfleet, so Orions and Feds working together is a no-go, and Nausicaans are just as likely to be shunned as the Federation does not employ or support mercenaries. Gorn on the other hand would be far more likely to run over to the Feds as a whole in order to free their government from Klingon rule and defend their regained sovereignty.
As for the question of content itself, why would anyone except roleplayers roll a character for the sub-faction which has access to everything the other side gets minus the Fed-content? It's like you're being offered free refills for your drink and you refuse even whilst still being thirsty after the one cup you got.
As serious as suggesting to work with an enemy of the Empire, I would think.
As I recall noone propsed that the KDF should become the Vermiform appendix of the Federation, we already have thatis, it's called "Playable Federation Klingon".
But cooperation where it makes sense ouside of Gamma Orionis, for example in Cardassian Space kicking some True Way butt is not something beyond the Klingons, or saving DS9 from them.
The universe is not all black and white, there are grey areas where you fight alongside someone else when it makes sense.
This would be that actual difference, when a house sympathetic to the Federation sees there is another threat, a threat to both that house might take action despite the war.
Others would choose to ignore the problem saying it's not their business.
Can't you see the difference between cooperation and "fusion"?
Again, there seems to be a serious misunderstanding there.
You said traitors would have more content.
Those would not be the characters, those would be the players.
Only players can have content that they play with.
The content of a character would be his...internal organs.
What saddens me is that you call the actions of people like B'vat "mainstream" while you call people who would fight against dishonorable conduct "traitors".
As for the possible RP implications:
It seems that you can only imagine that there would only be people on the Klingon side who forget the deep connection between two allies that fought together for many years against a common foe.
As was seen in the Dominion War.
Klingons can have very long memories and remember who their freinds are.
Those warriors would not abandon their bonds, their friendships from those days.
And they would be torn between loyalty to their own people and loyalty to people they trust and respect and fought together with.
Which is not something I can say about the current chancellor who is still a dubious figure.
Those people would try to at the very least find ways to help their friends wherever they can despite difficult circumstances.
*EDIT*
Yes in some cases it would not make much sense:
Gorn might, so might Orions who are not alligned with the Syndicate.
Some Aliens, given the proper backstory might too
Nausicaans etc not so much.
In such cases it would certainly be preferable if they got their own little storyline where they defend their own people from an external threat, like Romulans trying to take an ally of the Klingons out of the equation, or the Borg, of the Breen raiding their space.
It wouls also make a lot more sense to have those missions than to have a Gorn in Gre'thor don't you think?
But I know this is impossible given what limited resources are available for such endeavors.
You mean in addition to the ongoing war? Of course, this is an option, but in that case the war really would become a joke. Players would alterate between helping Starfleet and fighting them from hour to hour. A total loss of consistency.
Ah! Now I see what you mean. In that case I apologize, as it really was not meant towards the players. Yet you have to differentiate between the characters on some level, as every player has generally access to everything in STO. It is the characters that are limited due to their allegiance - currently, only Starfleet characters have access to Starfleet content, and only Klingon characters have access to Klingon content, even if you have a player having characters in both factions (like me).
I hope this clears it up and explains why I am referring to the characters, as only characters can betray their faction, not the players. Even if you feel a strong connection to it (for example I often say "we" when I am talking about the Klingon playerbase, even if only 50% of my characters are actually KDF).
By this I'm going by NPC comments (including the generic NPCs), storyline snippets and the faction explanation on the website. In my opinion this is the most accurate representation of the current mainstream Klingon mindset as we simply have no other indicators, aside from the exceptions you pointed out.
And honestly, it is easy to understand why the Klingons feel that way, if you combine their innate aggression and honor- / supremacy-concerned mindset with what happened during the past couple years in the Path to 2409. Relationships between the Federation and the Klingon Empire have deteriorated progressively, they didn't switch from "amicable" to "hostile" overnight.
I think Cryptic did a rather good job at explaining why things went how they did, and we've seen the Klingon Empire attack the Federation for far less and for way less important reasons in DS9.
There are also few Klingons who die of old age, and it is rather plausible that the majority of warriors in the KDF are ones who have not fought in the Dominion War whilst the new wave of young Klingons is eager to battle, finding far more excitement in the old stories about Klingon-Federation conflict than peace with a culture that does not understand the focal point of Klingon identity, whereas some old Klingons might simply relish a chance for honorable trial against someone they fought alongside once. That said, I greatly recommend this article for further explanation - an excerpt from a (sadly unreleased) Decipher RPG Sourcebook on the Klingon Empire.
Which is probably how you can explain the strong influx of Starfleet Klingon characters in STO. A House assisting Starfleet in a time of war and without approval from the High Council (as is the case for Omega Leonis), however, will soon find itself shamed and discommendated.
I do not think there are Orions not aligned with the Syndicate. They have no reason not to, considering it is the single organization in the galaxy most suited to care for their physical and psychological needs (whilst embracing their culture and any personal skills) and Orions are basically born into a web of crime. Additionally, Orions keep a pretty strong enmity towards the Federation that has persisted for centuries due to Starfleet continuously locking down Syndicate operations and the UFP having basically taken over the majority of Orion-influenced space by means of diplomacy and trade agreements, throwing the Orions out of business.
Sadly! I have expressed a wish to see a few unique species-exclusive missions several times. Even a set of simple repeatable "grind" missions* a la Pi Canis would be something to set them apart content-wise, but I too do not see that happening.
*: Examples ->
Orions: smuggle weapons through a Starfleet blockade, kidnap civilians or soldiers for the slave market
Gorn: reclaim an ancestral world occupied by Federation "graverobbers" (archaeologists), advance onto an important UFP stronghold ("KDF meatshields")
Nausicaans: lay traps for civilian freighter convoys, raid a science outpost and steal some important tech plans or equipment