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Ferengi and Pakleds for KDF
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Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
These Species I believe should be Cross Faction for this game because of how we know of them and their history within the franchise.
Sure we're in the middle of a war here. But I mean KDF pretty much has Open Door Policy like UFP.
So why not? It will give the KDF more species to play with and stuff like that?
Can I get a Hell Yeah?
Sure we're in the middle of a war here. But I mean KDF pretty much has Open Door Policy like UFP.
So why not? It will give the KDF more species to play with and stuff like that?
Can I get a Hell Yeah?
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Are you kidding? Ferengi would prevent dishonorable and cowardly houses from using finances to parlay the downfall of Houses in better Standing.
And, Ferengi are excellent at cost/benefit analysis, which would serve the Empire well. J'mPok would be wise to listen to a Ferengi when it comes to planning a campaign, after all, Klingons rarely retreat, even when it is the only proper course, and they are very likely to take the war to far if not reigned in.
And besides, from a more IRL view, any race someone has shelled out extra money for should be cross-faction, even looking forward to the Romulans.
Well, maybe the Orions, as they are the Ferengi's greatest rivals, but those at least aren't as open about it.
... but seriously, I don't think the KDF needs any more races. Actually, we already have way too much. This isn't the United Empire of Planets. Some amount of faction style should be preserved.
Liar! We need canoids - specifically we need the Children of San Tarah
I do have a little BoP, but he's probably too heavy to be hung from an xmas-tree, even if I'd have one.
Meh ... well, better than Ferengi at least. And it would be funny to see them fighting Caitians. They should totally get a species bonus against each other.
I remember a while ago there was a whole Ferengie Fleet wich wantet that; they finally left the game, I guess because they felt kind of ignored.
The Idea was to add the Ferengie Marauder, too, for both fractions, with the race, as kind of a cross fraction.
To the Pakleds... they neighter belong into the Federation nor into the Empire; it is a wonader that they are capable of of flying a ship at all. I do not see a Pakled suceeding at Starfleet Academie and become an Officer in "real" canon.... and well the KDF has Nausicans.... so well their chance here might be a little better.... but they are still Idiots and should be NPC encounters at best.
- Path to 2409
Drozana is likely independent from any faction. That, or this particular Ferengi thinks he can continue to play both factions without the threat of simply being annexed by one of the warring parties once the conflict escalates. (truth be told, I wouldn't read too much into it, it likely was a gameplay decision without much background consideration)
In any case, the Orions are going for economic domination of the Klingon Empire right now, and Melani D'ian has a better position with the Great Houses than any Ferengi could ever hope for. Do you think the Syndicate would sit by whilst a member of a species they both dislike and stand in competition with decides to interfer with their business?
And besides, the current limitations of gameplay would still mean that a Ferengi would end up being a soldier in the KDF. I can't see any Ferengi doing this. It's simply too dangerous and not profitable. There are only two kinds of Ferengi - the capitalists who sit back and let others do the dirty work, and the new idealists who end up in Starfleet.
I'd really prefer a neutral faction of "Independents" at some point for all those people who want to play traders, smugglers, mercenaries etc.
Of course the Ferengie are making trade agreements with the Federation. They are Ferengie....
That doesnt mean the "lines of alliance are clearly drawn". After all, war is good for business!
Well I thats one of the "gameplay decisions" I actually liked. Simply because it shows how the Ferengie work: neutral.
But since obviously some Ferengie chose to take the Federation side I dont see why some shouldnt take the Klingons one.
When has been established that Orions do not like Ferengie?
True, the Orions have a.... bigger intrest in business then any other part of the Klingon... alliance.... but business with the Ferengie still can bring advantages.
Excluding business-partners with influence from the economie ist simply not the way "business" works, they would try to take benefits from trade with the Ferengie and hope to get "better" benefits from it then the Ferengie .
Well thats a point, but I thing the "benefits" of adding the Ferengie to the KDF, especially for role players, would outweight that "problem" by far.
Well... yes and no. Basicly i kind of like that Idea, IF it is well done.... but there are A LOT of arguments against that.
- Adding a new faction is a bad Idea right now, because.... lets face it... STO does not have that much players. To spread them into even more factions where they cant work together would not improve the gameplay and might even mean the end of the game.
- Adding a new faction would mean the need of a lot of content for it.... and that would mean less content for the others,..... and most likley, the way Crytic works, especially less new content for the Klingons.
- That whole "independent faction" simply doesnt have a that big rule in the Star Trek universe. Most fans in the game would -if- prefer to see a real Star Trek faction like Romulans or Cardassians.... even the Borg. And since it is a Star Trek game they are simply right.
- There is not much Canon stuff for such a faction. What would that faction use? As Ship... the Marauder, thats basicly it. What else? Some pirates ect used Klingon ships they bought at the black market... But if those would be addet a lot of would cry since they are "klingon content" and ask why fed ships - wich wouldnt fit into that faction - are not there. The next for that faction would be nausican and orion stuff, that is, also already part of the Klingon faction.
And thats, in my opinion, the whold point... with Nausicans and Orions that "neutral" faction more or less is already in the game, as klingon content.
And I do not thing that this is a bad idea, because, serieously.... the Klingons are not THAT important in Star Trek. Beside the Dominion war... and Worf we didnt see them THAT often in the series.... true they had a bigger in the Movies.... but they are not much more but an extendet version of the "Alien of the week".
You also see that in regards to the content. I mean: People are asking for more Klingon content, but in ships and clothes, what is there left to add for them? A t5 K'tinga, the K'Vort.... may be some dated Enterprise ships (d5 and early BoP) and thats it. Clothes? I heared suggestions for 2 suits wich would be exclusive female, THATS IT. Cryptic CANT even bring the C-Store stuff en par with the Federations because there is simply not much left anyway.
I mean I know some want to keep "that unique feeling" but that means "no progress".
Adding that "neutral faction" parts to the Klingon faction would simply give room for Content. Its already happening (remember that just TWO of the 4, soon 5, retrofit ships is actually Klingon).
And adding more neutral stuff might get some new players to the klingon faction, too.
That was before the current Grand Nagus, who - as you may remember - has very close ties to the Federation.
Oh, that's "only" soft canon - I still took it for granted, though, as it fits their depiction in hard canon and the goals they have in STO as well.
Actually, there have been quite a lot of civilian ships aside from that one. The Ju'day-Raider, the Antares-class, or all those unnamed kitbashes that only appeared in one episode. I also like STOs "Federation Courier" design. Not that I doubt Cryptic could come up with some cool new designs of its own.
The options are there.
And that is part of the problem. They have already diluted the KDF into not becoming "the Klingons" but rather a "Klingon Alliance". I just don't think this faction should go the Federation way, as that is a defining feature as well. Six races are more than enough, and I'm not even counting Liberated Borg or all those Generic Aliens here.
Are you serious? Check the Klingon wishlist thread.
Ships? There's about 30 gaps to fill on all tiers for all the non-Klingon species. Clothes? More than a dozen suggestions on our wishlist. KDF C-Store doesn't fail because of nothing being left to make, but because of the developers not thinking it would pay off.
Hell no! I don't want those fat ugly buggers and the gold grabbing Ferengi in the Empire! There's plenty of races out there that can bring more to the table then those 2 worthless species.
-> Tholians
-> Breen
-> ...
They are too frail and cowardly to stand and fight and the pakleds are too slow. A predominately warrior race would never have let either one survive training.
Both races should have remained as either NPCs or a neutral faction.
Even a "current" Grand Nagus Rom cant change what Ferengie simply are. And I'm not Familiar with the Ferengie society that much, but I do not believe that there is no way to Replace a Nagus that works against the basic believes of the Ferengie. (And if there is no legal way, even a Nagus can have an "Accident") .Sticking with one side simply does that. It lowers Profit. Since Rom IS Nagus he cant hold that cause of action with 100 %.
But on the other hand, the Cryptic writers already prooved with Cardassians joining forces with Jem Hadar after the Cardassian genouide or Orions in alliance with Klingons that the simply have no Idea how things work in star trek, I dont believe they even watched the Series. Or they simply do not understand it.
There is no such thing as "soft canon" or "hard canon". There is just canon. That is everything seen oncreen (series and movies). Everything else is simply NOT Canon.
Of course non-canon stuff can be includet.... thats welcome if it is good (like the Luna Class wich is kind of nice... ) but it isnt really a scale.
Well most ships you name, JuDay Raider or the "Federation Courier", are not neutral, they are, like the "Federation Courier" says, Federation ships. They were used by groups like the Marquis because that groups had federation Orgins. And those are basicly small ships, they can keep up witch a Runabout but with a Souverign?
And Cryptics Designs are, in my Opinion (wich is shared by A LOT of people I know from the game) with 99% TRIBBLE. I personally like the Hegh'ta BoP but thats the only one I even can look at.
I personally thing it SHOULD have gone the Federation way from the beginning. In my opinion Federation and Klingon should be one fraction as an Alliance, and the othe Faction should be something lilke the Typhon Pact with Romulans, Cardassians ect. Again: I thing we have to little players after all to fill more then 2 fractions. And THAT would make more content for both possible. And it would give the Klingon Empire much more dignity to work with a "honorable" and proben "friend" like the ferderation then working with scump like Orions and Nausicans. The Klingon Alliance doesnt fit, but its to late, its their and we have to live with it.
To the wishlist: a said KLINGON content not Klingon Alliance content. Most suggestions, beside the ones I mentioned, are non canon Klingon ships wich are as ugly as Crypics designs or Alliance ships, wich was my whole point in the first place: Orions and Nausicans ARE what I would consider part of a Neutral fraction. The most possioble content on Klingon side is for them. So we do not need another, independet Merchant/smuggler ect ect fraction.
I disagree. The True Way Cardassians are, for one, an extremist faction. Secondly, their pact is an alliance of convenience, not mutual friendship. Thirdly, the Jem'hadar were merely semi-enslaved pawns of the Dominion and - unlike the Founders or the Breen - had nothing to say about how the war was conducted and, consequently, no true responsibility. Of course some Cardassians may feel otherwise, but that's not to say that the True Way as an organization is able to look past this for personal gain.
And as for the Klingons and the Orions - actually, they do have a long standing relationship in soft-canon. I've copypasted some of the old RPG fluff into an Orion guide here. It was recently backed up by the ENT episode "Borderland" which established that the Orion Colonies and the Klingon Empire do share a border.
Well, then we are left with common sense. It doesn't take that much to see the glaring differences between Ferengi and Orion approaches on trade - as well as the destructive rivalry that would result from this.
Well, this depends on what this neutral faction is supposed to do. Should it mirror the governmental ones in firepower? I say no. I'd leave it for people who want to trade, smuggle, craft and privateer.
As for the ships, it should probably be mentioned that they would appear "elsewhere" simply because the Federation is so large and produces so many of them. They are freely available for people outside the Federation, so why not use them? We even have examples of independents using Birds-of-Prey purchased on the black market so it's not hard to see what else could be employed.
Uhh, you said content for the faction as it is - this includes the non-Klingon species. The KDF isn't Starfleet, it does not need and should not have as many different Klingon ship classes.
How does the situation get "better" by introducing yet another non-Klingon species, anyways?
Even if you leave out all those possible ships that a -lot- of KDF players are asking for, there's still the clothes. So the ideas are there.
And no, Orions as a faction are not neutral anymore, just like the Gorn. That's like saying the Klingons were neutral in the Dominion War.
(Pakled Sci officers? Ugh, give me a break! It makes me want to hurl!)
Dude those books are AWESOME! I loved them and would love to see some of the stuff from the books brought into STO!!! It is a real shame he (the writer) can not do more books:(
I call baloney.
First of all, I have read countless posts that prove the devs are Trek fans and they do "get it". Some are more knowledgable than others, but none of them are ignorant. They watched Trek shows as inspiration for developing the game.
They have pretty much explained how the Jem Hadar came to fight for the True Way. They are warriors who broke free from the Founders' control and they basically sold their services to a group that keeps them employed as fighters. They also have no reason to love the Federation, a trait shared by the True Way. If anyone thinks that such as Gul Dukat or those who belonged to the Obsidian Order wouldn't stoop to using the Jem Hadar to get what they want, then I have to wonder how much Trek they have watched.
As to the Orions, it has long been established in Trek continuity that the Orions are known for piracy. They are at heart a mercenary folk. With the Federation threatening to put them out of business, why wouldn't they ally with a powerful faction that opposes the Federation? Not that I don't suspect that the Orions are equal-opportunity opportunists that will turn on the Empire when it suits them to do so. (My apologies to the Orions)
Other than that, they are only faceless speed bumps in our attempts to expand through the quadrants.
Can you imagine the kind of practical jokes they would be subjected to? (Think the stuff from Burger King's "Kingon Defese Academy" ads, but worse, and maybe a bit bloody.)
The Ferengi Alliance is allied with the UFP, but independent Ferengi merchants are still allowed to trade with the Klingons and thier allies as evidenced by Daimon Mok (assuming they can get away with it)
They explained that very bad, wich I cant blame them for because you simple CANT explain such thing good. The Jem Hadar/ Dominion didnt just offend the Cardassians a little bit or steal them a lolipop. They startet to ERASE the ALL Cardassians!!! Do you know what Genozide even IS? Thats nothing you forget after 40 years or put aside for pragmatism. And the True way an extreme "pro cardassian" faction with an racism background, the probably ONLY positive thing you can say about that kind of people ist that they wouldnt allie with people who tried to exterminate the whole race.
The only reason why that alliance is IN the game is because Cryptic wantet to give the DS9 fans a combination of enemys similar to the Dominion war, wich is not a bat intention. But, for story telling, after what happened in "what you leave behind", it simply can NEVER work.
In Star Trel continuity Orions wre pirate THREEHUNDRET YEARS AGO!!!!
In "newer" Star Trek ****inuity they were not known for piracy, they were known to be simple Mafia-like criminals. With methods that are the EXACT opposite that Klingons call "honorable". Not much thinking in that; they simply wantet an "evil" faction, so they thought that would fit. But Klingons are not not "evil" they have just another Moral Code wich is VERY VERY important to them. The Orion Syndicate (remember the Orion Homeworld is fed Terretory and concerning the way to 2409 the Syndicate is the allied not the whole race) are featured (and where always featured) with an especial lack of any moral.
You've got to remember who got the Cardassians into the genocide situation in the first place. That's right - the Central Command, the very same people who now make up many of the True Way supporters. By your logic they would have to hate themselves, too. Obviously the True Way is capable of seeing past the pawns (like their own leaders) and reserve their hatred for the Founders.
Uh, no.
First off, we haven't really seen Orions in newer continuity. Secondly, the Syndicate already existed in Enterprise, so I suggest that they simply haven't changed that much. Which is actually maintained by all sources we have on Orions in newer continuity, which sadly happens to be soft canon stuff only. But it's better than nothing, so here goes:
ENT: While the star-spanning Syndicate is (as always) in operation during this era, Earth and Starfleet seem like penny-ante tin-star smalltimers. Orions may take Humans for what they can get, but probably neither know nor care about Humanity's up-and-coming galactic prominence.
TOS: Once the Federation forms, the Orions see a lucrative interplanetary market. They engage in everything from slave trading to the outright seduction of Starfleet captains. Unfortunately, the Federations high-minded ideals place them staunchly against the Orions, who have a few missteps and have to learn the hard way that Starfleet isn't a pushover any more.
TNG: Following the Khitomer Accords, the Orions become much less prominent, probably because the powerful Federation Starfleet keeps Syndicate operatives on the run. During this period the Syndicate reevaluates its estimation of the burgeoning Federation, trying to find ways to turn the hundreds of worlds into dens of Orion larcency. They have very limited success.
DS9: Orion operations suffer so much during the Federation's expansion that by the late 24th century, they become directly antagonistic to the Federation. Orions in this era not only engage in smuggling right under the nose of Starfleet officials but also engineer important assassinations, all in an attempt to influence Federation policy. When the Dominion War breaks out, the Orions remain low-key - regardless of who wins, there will always be a black market.
This is taken directly from the Decipher books, by the way.
Other soft canon books also point out that the Orions have had a very long and rather flourishing relationship with the Klingon Empire. If you want to read more about this, you may find some insights in this Orion guide, which is a compilation of all canon and soft canon sources I was able to find on the subject.
Also, you seem to have missed the fact that the Orions have vacated their resource-stripped homeworld in favor of moving to a planet within Klingon space:
2394: On Stardate 71283.12, Melani D'ian meets J'mpok in person on Ter'jas Mor. After four days of negotiations, the two agree to sign a non-aggression and mutual defense pact. In exchange for the Syndicate's allegiance, the Klingon Empire will provide them with ships and weapons. In addition, Melani D'ian further agreed to share technology and information with the Klingons in exchange for a planet in Klingon space that the Orions can rule as a vassal state.
The Federation Council condemns the new alliance as support for criminals, and Starfleet Command vows to continue pursuing and shutting down Syndicate operations in Federation space. Starfleet reports show that Syndicate traffic has increased significantly since Melani D'ian seized control. Melani has ruthlessly purged anyone she deems untrustworthy, and fused the remaining Orions into a unified organization that answers to her alone. As a gift to celebrate their new alliance, Melani sends 1,500 Orion women to be servants in the Great Houses on Qo'noS. Melani herself settles into an estate on Ter'jas Mor, and the remaining Orions still on the Orion homeworld make plans to emigrate by the end of the year.
From the Path to 2409.
In short, your info on Orions seems to be a bit off.