test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
How far is too far?
System
Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
I cant believe I never thought of this before, and Im suprised no one else seems to have mentioned it but basically how far, allegorically, can we go with reguards to our stories?
For example, I have a couple of new ideas. One about the Vulcans and a group Ive named the "Far Eastern Movement" who have forgone Kolinahr and retained emotion. They are not Romulans or aggressive but the Vulcans see them as a threat and their Religion is wrong.
Secondly, I have a Character who is about to be named a King on his home planet. As a diplomatic mission you are to oversee the handover and learn the Young Prince must choose a queen before he can be named a King... the only problem here however is that he is a TRIBBLE character and he wishes to marr his lover but it is against the Planets beliefs and rules.
Would we be able to produce allegory tales of this nature or must we, like TNG and each successive series afterward, just drop it so we dont offend the family audience of Star Trek and this game as a whole
For example, I have a couple of new ideas. One about the Vulcans and a group Ive named the "Far Eastern Movement" who have forgone Kolinahr and retained emotion. They are not Romulans or aggressive but the Vulcans see them as a threat and their Religion is wrong.
Secondly, I have a Character who is about to be named a King on his home planet. As a diplomatic mission you are to oversee the handover and learn the Young Prince must choose a queen before he can be named a King... the only problem here however is that he is a TRIBBLE character and he wishes to marr his lover but it is against the Planets beliefs and rules.
Would we be able to produce allegory tales of this nature or must we, like TNG and each successive series afterward, just drop it so we dont offend the family audience of Star Trek and this game as a whole
Post edited by Unknown User on
0
Comments
Well, this being said. You might want to give someone fair warning in the descrption. (I heard that this will be implemented whenever the Foundry comes out) At least this way if people aren't in the mood to play something that will offend them, they will avoid your missions.
I normally hate fan fiction, but I think UGC within this game could be done brilliantlly, there are ideas of story arcs from people that sound brilliant that I cant wait to play but I do hope people dont shy away from doing Allegorys like these or even better ones that are out there.
If I do offend anyone then I hope they'd message me on the game and I would ammend or remove the episode depending on the complaint. I dont mean to offend at all though
That said, all of this content will be rated by the STO community. While sometimes eccentric and random, I'm sure that if your missions are tastefully written it doesn't matter that your characters are TRIBBLE or straight. Just make sure you're putting it out there for the right reasons (plot vs strictly socio-political.)
Tastefull is key. But I do find it kind of funny that this is brought up. As many of the TOS fans will recall "Plato's Stepchildren" contained the first interracial kiss on TV. For those not so much a fan of TOS I found it on YouTube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lThvEsP5-9Y Where as, back then, racism was the hot button topic. TRIBBLE rights is one of the hot button topics now. So socio-political would be a tag along in your mission's reaction. I encourage you to write it. As stated, in the big scheme of things, it won't matter that your characters are TRIBBLE, the content and story are the most important part. And as for the rating, majority rules and SP3CTREnyc nailed it.
Subtly is key. Look at the story of some of the Ace Combat games for the PS2, they do a good job of Allegory with out being too obvious while also staying mostly neutral to the exact story they're taking inspiration from.
On a more personal note, the quickest way to make me not give a damn about your story, with out even having to read or watch it is to make it a heavy modern world allegory. Sadly, I'm in the minority, most people seem to want everything they watch and play to constantly remind them how messed up their world is, but given the choice, I've always preferred stories that escape reality and not shows that remind me about reality at every turn.
That said, you're free to write what every story you want and how ever you want to write it, but seeing that you asked around I figured you wanted other people's advice and opinions, well there's mine.
Happy gaming.
Should be fine...
Since initially there won't be player choices determining which direction the story takes, I'd be interested to see which your resolution would be.
Seems that either the player could be directed to endeavor to help the prince convince his people of the err of their norms through a series of events leading to his marriage to the lover and his becoming king. Or you could task the player to remove the princes TRIBBLE lover from the picture and lead the prince thru retraining before finding an appropriate queen for him, who he then marries before becoming king. Or something in between or completely different.
Of course, ultimately if the tools go where we all hope they do you'll be able to leave important choices like these to the players themselves which will make missions like this much more acceptable for all. The biggest problem with moral choices is being forced to take one over the other because there really is no choice.
I think stuff like this is cool as long as the following criteria can be met: 1 that player isn't forced to act in a way that is offensive to them and 2 that the situation is not spun to push an agenda.
For instance you might have the option of "shutting down" the so called religious group, but if that's the *only* option you provide then it comes across as anti religious which is untreklike. The question is, can you present the issue without adding your own bias into the storytelling.
In other words, it's a good thing to present moral dilemma's to the player, but it's not a good thing to promote one viewpoint over another. This was one of the things I've always liked about Trek, they often brought up relevant social issues but they didn't say that one side was right vs the other. It is a fine line between awareness and judgment. I will be interested to see how well the player base can walk it.
~D
They're clearly posted in our TOS for the game, and on our Forum Rules and Guidelines.
More specific details will be found in the TOS that you'll agree to upon entering The Foundry for Star Trek Online Beta Mission Authoring Tools.
Thanks,
Stormshade
I believe, in general, people arent going to care that much about that. This is Star Trek. Tons of cultures out there. Some with no sex. Some with not social hang ups. Etc.
Your Captain wouldn't stop the Religious Movement on Vulcan. You would be fighting for anyone to have the right to believe any religion they want
And thanks everyone for input. Obviously, as I and a few others have said to me I will only do missions like this IF I can do it tastefully, subtly and not offensive or too risqu
How many false god plots/challenges to authority were there in the Original Series? Aside from even ST:V, there are several examples of them finding a religious group and essentially saying "that's wrong."
This may not always be true, the Prime Directive prohibits you from interfering in other cultures, thus you would not be fighting for anyones rights at all but allowing the natural course of a species evolution to happen. I like a particular thought that Mass Effect 2 brings up. It is foolish to assume your own morality applies to another race or species. What is right for one is not right for another. interfering in what you think is "right" could be a grave error.
Yes, sometimes one viewpoint appears right, but right is entirely subjective. You as a captain must have your own moral code as to what you will or will not do, but that doesn't give you the privilege to make that choice for others.
~D
What part of ME2 are you talking about? The bit with Legion and the Geth?
Legion's Loyalty mission involving your companions questioning the morality of rewriting the Heretic's code. I believe one of the responses you can make is a renegade option stating that our (organic) morality cannot be forced onto an inorganic race as we are completely different. It was a profound train of thought they added to the game and it got them kudo's from me. Too many people act like what is right and wrong in our culture must be right and wrong in any other culture we come in contact with.
~D
StormShade, I'm so used to TOS as The Original Series on this website I had to re-read your post.
On to the actual subject of my post.
I've always enjoyed the allegorical nature of Star Trek and certainly look forward to these types of missions in the foundry. The one request I have is for everyone to try not to spell out what you are trying to say, just allude to it. When Picard directly linked the forcible relocation of a group of people in Insurrection to what the US did to the American Indians, it's like explaining a punchline for a joke (I am not comparing the treatment of Native Americans to a joke) which makes the joke less humorous. Like it was mentioned before in this thread, subtly is important and makes your story much more compelling.
Which is funny because in the TV series he was going to forcibly remove some native Indians from a planet they had settled on orders from Starfleet Command. Funny that he chewed Crusher out for his own little "insurrection" and then they had him do the same thing himself in a movie. . .one reason why I hate the TNG movies.
~D
1. Ensure you develop player empathy with the key characters, announcing right off the bat that this Prince is TRIBBLE, will cause all sorts of player bias' right from the get go. It's important to draw the players in so they see this Prince as "good for the community, good for his people" and that, even though he may not follow the social norms of his planet, his personal characteristics supercede his personal preference for love. However, don't overplay how "good" this Prince is, else player's will want to vomit if it's Prince Awesomesauce.
2. Remember that unlike the TV series, where there is a set script and the actors HAVE to follow it, player's are NOT viewers. Yes, they are taking part in your story, but unlike Kirk or Picard who had to "sell" a certain perspective because the script said so, you are dealing with player's own characters, who have their own preconceptions. It is not your place to "dictate" your version of Utopia and make them follow it. That is the ultimate goal, not to get people to necessarily agree with a point of view, but to see it from a new light, to understand it, and see where the "other side" is coming from.
3. The story doesn't always have to be a happily ever after, or a forbidden love ending. Alot of Star Trek episodes didn't end in Black and White. The ending could quite possibly be that the society just isn't ready to accept the Prince's point of view, and the prince isn't willing to follow the social norm. Maybe the Prince says bugger it, takes off with his love and its the first time the planet is left without a King, all because of their Bias both parties are left worse off.
Sometimes it's enough for a story to draw out different perspectives and points, and cause the player to question, to look inside and see if they too are pigeonholed in set values. This was always a key factor in Trek writing, alot of the episodes were a mirror of current society, to cause people to ask questions of themselves like "am I the racist..sexist etc."
Ultimately if a Foundry Mission like this gets accepted, or gets you banned lies with you the story writer/creator. Are you setting out to tell a story and provide a perspective, or are you setting out to inflame the player base and rock the boat? Presentation of the theme is key.