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Forums > Home› Feedback› Klingon Discussion

The Nebula - Toy or Threat

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited October 2010 in Klingon Discussion
So with the Nebula with it´s TDG arriving at Tribble - do we have to be aware of that ship with it´s special skill? What are your experiences as I haven´t fought one myself yet.
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    The special skill is a 30s enhancement to sensors and sensor range. Since most ships don't spec into sensors, sensor arrays or run high auxiliary power, the effect for them will be like if the used EP-A I or II. Hence they can spot you on 2-3km. Science captains in science ships can always spot you with buffed sensor scan around 10km, with tachyon grid it will be like 11-12km. Science captains in other ships somewhere around 5-6km with sensor scan.

    So really, nothing much will change. It was easy to decloak klingons before with proper tools, it will be easy after. Also, don't expect to see Nebula in every team you face.

    If you want to avoid detection while cloak

    - rank up skills affection cloaking device (starship engineering training, auxiliary system maintenance, auxiliary system performance)
    - change power setting to high aux
    - keep distance

    This will greatly improve your cloak, which means the ones looking for you, must be closer to you
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    Premades: Minor Threat
    PUGs: No differences

    I did a ton of testing on tribble and the tachyon detection grid enhances the Sensor scan ability of sci officers. With EVERYTHING possible skilled and popped for the test, the max detection range of the ship popping scan was and intermittent 15 km (could only tell I was there for a few moments).

    Standard detection range for the average specced sci officer is ~12km for however long scan lasts. For non-sci officers the grid helps them see out to just under 7km.

    Also, the tachyon grid is not based on aux or improved by any skill or abilities.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    How was its "shared" abilty?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    Toy!


    The T3 Nebula is no match for my Cruiser! Those Federation Targ-food are still no match for me, Muahhahahaha!


























    ...I hope *gulp* :rolleyes:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    I played one Tribble PvP match with the grid being used by the opposing Fed ball. It did make a difference...very difficult to battle cloak under fire because every ship in the ball now can see you out to some moderate range. (On the other hand I had swapped in the now-useless RSP for testing instead of PH, so it might not be so bad in practice.)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    Naevius wrote:
    I played one Tribble PvP match with the grid being used by the opposing Fed ball. It did make a difference...very difficult to battle cloak under fire because every ship in the ball now can see you out to some moderate range. (On the other hand I had swapped in the now-useless RSP for testing instead of PH, so it might not be so bad in practice.)

    This is mostly where I'm concerned. The Tac-Grid is no threat to any ship other than the BoP and most especially has the potential to be a threat to the most common use of battle cloak - escape. If I get time I'll try to test and post my thoughts as well. But the more people testing this with BoP's the better.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    It hasn't had an affect on the PVP I've done (though that was limited to only two encounters outside of Kerrat, which has been nice for testing PVP-lite when there is no one in a queue).

    One interesting example was I was in a Vo-Quv and was using MSE. Me and two other ships were 11 to 14 km away from the fedball. It had 2 nebulae. It detected nothing. I un-masked, became bait, they flew towards me and my growing cluster of fighters. And the other two cloaked ships did the normal thing. I was bait. Classic bait.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Having made a good attempt to make the Nebula work, I say toy. It is slow, slow, slow. Pretty much every Nebula is going to be 100% predictable and use their Uni slot for an Eng BO.

    As to the detection grid, I haven't gotten to give that a serious test, unfortunately, but I don't believe it is dangerous to a BOP that actually flees using evasive, not just battlecloak. A Luna or Intrepid sci captain could give chase to a BOP relatively well and hunt it down, potentially, but the Nebula's turning makes that impossible, unless you are silly and flee directly in front of it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Foxrocks wrote:
    Having made a good attempt to make the Nebula work, I say toy. It is slow, slow, slow. Pretty much every Nebula is going to be 100% predictable and use their Uni slot for an Eng BO.

    As to the detection grid, I haven't gotten to give that a serious test, unfortunately, but I don't believe it is dangerous to a BOP that actually flees using evasive, not just battlecloak. A Luna or Intrepid sci captain could give chase to a BOP relatively well and hunt it down, potentially, but the Nebula's turning makes that impossible, unless you are silly and flee directly in front of it.

    My concern with the grid (and I admit to not having had a chance to test it from either side) is not the Nebul chasing you down, that is not the role of the ship, but the grid exposing you. A smart group would utilize the grid to pick off escaping BoP's if the grid actually works.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Treat - another ugly Federation Ship that I can send to its demise.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    If the player is good, then it's a threat. If the team that the player is on is a good, it's an even bigger threat.

    If however the player is average or has poor skills, then it is a toy.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    i as a federation science captain intending to use the nebula will say this. its not the detection i like about the grid. its the +20 to sensors (improving my target subsystems, my sensor scan, my charged burst, my jam sensors, and my scramble sensors)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    matteo716 wrote: »
    i as a federation science captain intending to use the nebula will say this. its not the detection i like about the grid. its the +20 to sensors (improving my target subsystems, my sensor scan, my charged burst, my jam sensors, and my scramble sensors)

    But you are loosing one science console, so in the end, the difference is +3 for that specialized subsystem.

    I like the nebula because its sort of hybrid, allowing interesting combination. But it needs a little adjustment to be on par with other ships.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Dalnar wrote:
    But you are loosing one science console, so in the end, the difference is +3 for that specialized subsystem.

    I like the nebula because its sort of hybrid, allowing interesting combination. But it needs a little adjustment to be on par with other ships.

    i dont really see the loss of a science console that big of a hit, there was no general +sensor console anyways so having being able to boost all those skills is still nice. besides, i think the trade off on that is the extra engineering consle right?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    matteo716 wrote: »
    i dont really see the loss of a science console that big of a hit, there was no general +sensor console anyways so having being able to boost all those skills is still nice. besides, i think the trade off on that is the extra engineering consle right?

    Nope, DSSV has also the extra eng console, but 4 sci. Nebula is missing one "main" console, while other retrofits are missing the "extra" console. Also for a little questionable ability, in term of usability. Saucer separation = used in both pvp and pve, same goes for ablative armor, and cloak. Main ability of grid is for pvp and only against cloaks, the sensor bonus is minor and secondary effect. Now if the bonus was +50 :p

    Nebula also has the lowest turn rate and inertia of all science ships, with more crew as "compensation".

    Also, there is sensor array console, which is improving sensor scan and jam sensors, or astrometrics console which improves charged particle burst.

    Sure, the grid gives you bonus to all such abilities, but its not available always on all your cooldowns with your abilities. Sure, it can be better, but overall, its probably poor trade off.

    But..i always like to play underdogs.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Varrangian wrote: »
    My concern with the grid (and I admit to not having had a chance to test it from either side) is not the Nebul chasing you down, that is not the role of the ship, but the grid exposing you. A smart group would utilize the grid to pick off escaping BoP's if the grid actually works.

    It seems the effect of the grid is so weak that only another science ship or the Nebula itself actually has a chance to find the battle-cloaking BoP in the first place. So it would only be a danger if there were multiple science ships that don't also happen to be Nebulas. That's not exactly a common occurence and having so many science ships would certainly hurt the enemy turn in some other manner. (Say, the disability to survive the alpha strike of a group of cloaked KDF vessels.)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    MustrumRidcully wrote: »
    It seems the effect of the grid is so weak that only another science ship or the Nebula itself actually has a chance to find the battle-cloaking BoP in the first place. So it would only be a danger if there were multiple science ships that don't also happen to be Nebulas. That's not exactly a common occurence and having so many science ships would certainly hurt the enemy turn in some other manner. (Say, the disability to survive the alpha strike of a group of cloaked KDF vessels.)

    Interesting.. that is too bad, as the grid seems to be the main selling point and if balanced well could provide for some interesting matches.

    I'm interested in the base stats of the Nebula, does it have 27K hull HP and 125% shields like other science ships or does it follow the turn rate and have more hybrid stats?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Varrangian wrote: »
    I'm interested in the base stats of the Nebula, does it have 27K hull HP and 125% shields like other science ships or does it follow the turn rate and have more hybrid stats?

    Yep, science ship stats with cruiser turn rate :rolleyes:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Dalnar wrote:
    Yep, science ship stats with cruiser turn rate :rolleyes:

    I could see maybe bumping up the hull to 30K then and keeping the 125% shields. or bumping the turn rate up to the lowest of the T5 science ships I think that is 9 right?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Varrangian wrote: »
    I could see maybe bumping up the hull to 30K then and keeping the 125% shields. or bumping the turn rate up to the lowest of the T5 science ships I think that is 9 right?

    skilled with 7's except the retrofit at 9. i get just under 34k in hull.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    After doing some cloak testing on Tribble, the Nebula is definitely a toy, at least on its own. The detection grid power doesn't add much at all to the detection radius of the Nebula. Sensor scan is far more powerful, though it does stack with the grid.

    However I wasn't able to see how it changed if the grid buffed allies, so if it does change or multiply the buff somehow, like its implied to do, it may still be somewhat useful. But what I saw of the Nebula on its own was quite unimpressive.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Foxrocks wrote:
    After doing some cloak testing on Tribble, the Nebula is definitely a toy, at least on its own. The detection grid power doesn't add much at all to the detection radius of the Nebula. Sensor scan is far more powerful, though it does stack with the grid.

    However I wasn't able to see how it changed if the grid buffed allies, so if it does change or multiply the buff somehow, like its implied to do, it may still be somewhat useful. But what I saw of the Nebula on its own was quite unimpressive.

    Stacking this feedback up against Farktoid's glowing review of the Nebula from September 21 ... before it went onto Tribble:
    I'd like to chime in here, having had the chance to play around with the Nebula class a bit.

    As of this writing, the Nebula is a Science Vessel, with 3 hard points front and 3 back, and stacked with Science consoles. That may be subject to change, but I think it is a good fit.

    Why? Because gameplay-wise, the Nebula is a solid support ship. The low-tier version has an impressive scan ability, and the high-tier is able to create a tachyon web amongst nearby ships, which increases stealth detection by a good margin. This is a very effective PVP vessel because it can smoke out cloaked enemies from a wider distance than standard sensor scan, and good timing can shut down a cloak rush before it happens.

    This also makes it a high-priority target for teams that use cloak, because if you are able to knock out the Nebula before it uses its ability you are free to use battle cloak more effectively until the Nebula re-enters the fight.

    And since the Nebula currently has a universal boff station, there is a large amount of flexibility available. Obviously not as much as a Bird-of-prey, but a skilled Nebula captain will undoubtedly be able to turn fights to his or her advantage by predicting rushes and adjusting accordingly.

    And keep in mind that boffs can be traded out during PVP as long as the ship is out of combat, so the amount of flexibility on the Nebula is unparalleled on the Fed side.

    Going off of Foxrocks' own testing results from this thread ...
    So that gives a pretty good picture. The end conclusion was that the detection grid maybe gives you another 1-2km of detection range, while sensor scan remains the best tool, by far, for cloak detection.

    So let's recap ...

    Fark "hyped" up the Nebula by telling us it was going to be:

    - Able to stack science consoles.

    Tests show it has less science consoles than every other science ship in the game.

    - A beast in PVP because it increases stealth detection by a wide margin.

    Tests show that to be hyperbole.

    - A very effective PVP vessel because it can smoke out enemies better than sensor scan.

    Tests show that to be ... more hyperbole.

    - A high priority target for ships that use cloak.

    But in the tests, the raptor does a decent job at cloak detection all by itself and my own experiences have shown the cloak tactic still works just fine. Because the grid doesn't go far.

    - A large amount of flexibility available.

    Whereas tests and building with it on tribble are showing it to not be really very flexible at all.

    Just wanted to recap what the devs told us this ship would be ... compared to what tests are showing it to be. And maybe point out that a lot of posters said as much prior to its release on Tribble ... without ever once testing it. (Which is probably because a lot of posters fly the ships currently in-game enough to be able to look at stats and layout and figure out what it plays like).

    EDIT: And also, really, for those curious, click the link to Foxrocks' tests. It's good data. And it shows what the Detecting Grid really does ... so you can weigh actual data against the hype that the gimmick was given.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    That's why I like you Superchum;) Keep up the good work!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Foxrocks wrote:
    After doing some cloak testing on Tribble, the Nebula is definitely a toy, at least on its own. The detection grid power doesn't add much at all to the detection radius of the Nebula. Sensor scan is far more powerful, though it does stack with the grid.

    However I wasn't able to see how it changed if the grid buffed allies, so if it does change or multiply the buff somehow, like its implied to do, it may still be somewhat useful. But what I saw of the Nebula on its own was quite unimpressive.

    It stacks, there were several nebula outside of sol space dock and everyone used it, we had like 11 stacks of it, and the stealth rating raised. But...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Dalnar wrote:
    It stacks, there were several nebula outside of sol space dock and everyone used it, we had like 11 stacks of it, and the stealth rating raised. But...

    Exactly...does it really work? I couldn't get any other Feds to help in the tests so I have no idea. Personally I tried a mine layer build in my Nebula and managed stacks of about 30 at ESD, which if that affects stealth detection that much, that could be a pretty serious threat.

    But we just don't know at this point.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    When I tested a Nebula with some help of SVK in Kerrat, I couldn't detect a BoP 4km from me with min Aux. And my Science Captain was fully speced in Sensors and the ship was at Full Aux. So by the time you finally detect a Klingon warship, it will be in the process of decloaking and blasting you to bits.

    Like said above Tachyon Grid alone is worthless unless it's stacked with Sensor Scan.
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