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Suggestion: Tie Klingon PvP Efforts to PvE Content in Fed Space
Okay, I just had an inspiration while replying in another thread regarding the latest state of the game message. I thought I would share it as an idea...
Suggestion: Have the PvP aspect of Klingon play make a real difference in the game world. Here is an idea -- a built-in monitor to the game that tallies PvP wins and losses between the factions...when a certain threshold is reached in terms of wins and losses, then that faction gains territory that they can enter and do missions in. For example...a threshold is reached to the point where Klingons can enter sectors that are currently closed to them and do missions that are normally only Federation-based (such as Crystal Entity, etc). Imagine a Klingon fleet blockading Sol or DS9 -- just like in the real show. Of course...the disparity of numbers would quickly be a factor...but hey, it WOULD be a good day to die!
This PvE content already exists -- Klingons would be able to gain access to it by earning it through faction PvP wins.
And you can have the threshold reset every seven days -- perhaps time a reset for the release of the weekly dailies.
What do you think?
Okay, I just had an inspiration while replying in another thread regarding the latest state of the game message. I thought I would share it as an idea...
Suggestion: Have the PvP aspect of Klingon play make a real difference in the game world. Here is an idea -- a built-in monitor to the game that tallies PvP wins and losses between the factions...when a certain threshold is reached in terms of wins and losses, then that faction gains territory that they can enter and do missions in. For example...a threshold is reached to the point where Klingons can enter sectors that are currently closed to them and do missions that are normally only Federation-based (such as Crystal Entity, etc). Imagine a Klingon fleet blockading Sol or DS9 -- just like in the real show. Of course...the disparity of numbers would quickly be a factor...but hey, it WOULD be a good day to die!
This PvE content already exists -- Klingons would be able to gain access to it by earning it through faction PvP wins.
And you can have the threshold reset every seven days -- perhaps time a reset for the release of the weekly dailies.
What do you think?
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Given the game design with instancing and all, I just don't know how well it could be implimented (if at all).
edit: TBH - a Klingon Fleet blockading Sol would really be cool. It's these little things that could happen from time to time that would really shake up the gameplay and make it not so...predictable.
If you don't like PvP you shouldn't play a Klingon for the next 2 years or so, which is when the Klingons MAY have finally caught up to feds content-wise - that is CURRENT levels of content, not the levels of content they'll have 2 years from now necessarily.
The OP's ideas are excellent actually. A lot of existing Fed missions are inherently faction-neutral or could be rewritten with minor tweaks to be doable by both factions.
Actually, I'm leveling my Klingon on star clusters ATM and enjoying it, so I'll play how I want thank you very much :rolleyes:
That said, there is a difference between not wanting to PvP and not liking it. I like it, but that doesnt mean I want to do it ALL the time. Furthermore, I'm not a very big fan of PvP ques; I'll be more interested in PvP when an open PvP sector is added.
Because the majority of Klingon players DO PvP, all you have to do is wait until those hard-working individuals "win" the threshold for the Faction, then YOU have access to all that fine PvE content, as a Klingon, on the Fed side.
The results of reaching the threshold are not per individual...it is for the entire faction.
The only thing that could stop that is if the Federation PvPers managed to prevent the Klingons from reaching that "win" threshold....
So, for PvE content, this would be ideal in that it would boost PvE Klingon options through the roof.
First of all, if the Devs were really going to take the time necessary to convert Fed episodes to be playable by Klingons, theres no way they are going to lock people out of them depending on which faction controls X sector.
Second, you mentioned "all you have to do is wait", but not everyone has all day to play. Some people are only able to play an hour a day or less because of being "hard working" in REAL LIFE, and those people shouldnt have to wait on the "hard working" video game players to unlock their content when they get a chance to log in.
I'll give you props on trying to improve the KDF faction, but your specifics simply dont make reasonable sense when you get right down to it. Id love to have territories that can be captured in PvP, but whether or not your faction is sucessful shouldnt limit your gameplay. If anything, maybe the faction that controls the territory gets extra rewards or bonuses for the missions in question.
So, you can continue to enjoy the thrilling and amazing gameplay experience you currently cherish, without loosing anything, while everyone else gets to enjoy the added features. Win win! :rolleyes:
Options do not force you to do anything. Also, there is nothing saying this would have to be queue-only, or even queue-tied, necessarily. It could just as easily be open pvp a la Kerrat for all we know.
I think the OP's ideas have a lot of merit.
My points and ideas are not meant to be offensive to you. Real life always takes precedence -- I also do not have a lot of time to spend "in game" and I also am employed, for which I am thankful in these times.
Look -- the above idea is entirely optional. In fact, should something like this be implemented, absolutely nothing would change for the player who is content to do the KDF nebula grinds. That individual would not be required or forced to do anything at all different. The game simply does not change. All this idea does is to provide to the Klingon faction two things -- first of all, to make PvP actually meaningful to the point where it impacts the gameworld. This is done in many MMOs - In fact, WoW, which is brought up often for comparison as an MMO to others, has this very same functionality built in where capturing a certain area opens up shops and NPCs to that particular faction. This idea is not all that different. Secondly, this is an easy way to provide a lot more PvE options and leveling to Klingon players without having to reinvent the wheel. It is economical and efficient, and much easier to do than to create content entirely from scratch. This type of idea would supplement, not replace Klingon PvE.
As another poster has pointed out, many of the Federation missions are faction neutral. All of the episodes that involve fighting or interating with Romulans, Cardassians, and Borg would require little modification to allow Klingon players to do those missions. Those missions that are directly against Klingon NPCS could be closed to us, or could be treated as a mission against a rogue house.
Bottom line -- this is just an idea. I do not work for Cryptic, and it could be that the entire idea simply is not feasible, but it is just an idea. This idea does not limit gameplay for anyone -- KDF current content simply would not change, and acquisition of the PvP threshold would be temporary and reset every week. If the KDF wins the threshhold early on, that would be a week of access to one or more Federation territories...when that week is up, the threshold is set back to zero, and the process starts again.
If my "hard working" comment got to you -- I apologize. That was a bit of "tongue in cheek" so to speak. I know that there are KDF players that are pure PvE...but to be candid, those individuals are very much in the minority on the KDF side as far as I know. Practically every KDF player PvPs to some extend -- some more than others -- but without PvPing....the level grind has to be extremely tedious.
Exactly hehe.
Because the idea also works in reverse. If the Feds gain the threshold and keep it, then they could enter the Klingon areas, such as they are LOL.
Of course I think I know how the Devs are going to maybe look at this issue -- as "backdoor open PvP"...but it really would not be that at all -- sure, the Fed "visitors" could be challenged...and perhaps if they enter the Qo'nos (spelling, sorry), they could get mobbed by level 70 NPCs...but it could be fun all the same, but I think that if the Feds could capture and win that PvP threshold, then bragging rights should be allowed and they would deserve them. Cruising the Klingon area in their gunboat is one way to show bragging rights.
I understand you want to bennifit the KDF faction. However, answer this question: how does creating a bunch of new KDF content but only making it availible PART of the time MORE bennificial than making it available ALL of the time? How is a person not being able to do part of the KDF content depending on how long they have to play or what time they log on MORE bennificial to the faction than them being able to do it any time? Once again, I support the idea of captuable territories. However, in a faction that is already starved for content, it makes no sense to add new content but only have it availible occasionally.
I do understand what you are saying...but think of it this way...
Would you rather wait two years to get what the Feds have now....or have something that is at least conditionally accessible now?
I get it that you don't like PvP. There are many, many players for which PvP is not their cup of tea...but unfortunately in this game, the primary way for a Klingon character to level is through PvP -- it can be done without a single PvP battle, true...it just takes twice as long. For that reason, most Klingon players do PvP at least a little bit. Some PvP all the time. That is their playstyle.
The other option is to have tons of KDF content added immediately that would bring us up to the Feds level...and the Devs have already said that is not going to happen due to manpower constraints...
So -- if we want more options, and more PvE, then we need to work with what we've got and come up with unique ideas to address the issues.
Please -- if you have an idea, then share it. Everybody listens, and no idea is out of bounds (as long as you do not break TOS lol).
For me...I am not PvP crazy...but I do like it, mostly because of the teamwork aspect of PvP...but one of my own wishes (shared by many in the community) is for PvP to actually mean something -- to have an impact on gameplay, etc. There are different ways to do this...this is possibly one.
As far as instancing goes...I don't see how hard it could possibly be to simply substitute a Klingon ship into a Federation mission -- the mission does not need to be rewritten, the text could be almost entirely the same, the outcomes the same, the rewards even the same. This is especially true of the Romulan missions I think. Although it might be too much to ask...but it would also be nice if we could raid the Federation supply lines -- maybe have a daily where if we manage to sweep all those Fed trade ships out of their home sector we get emblems or something.
The purpose of this idea, and this thread is to spark free-flowing idea sharing and thoughts. So...if you do have a better idea, or want to contribute, please do so. I am interested in hearing all ideas.
I might have simply overlooked it, but I didnt see your answers to the questions I asked in my last post, so here they are again:
"how does creating a bunch of new KDF content but only making it availible PART of the time MORE bennificial than making it available ALL of the time? How is a person not being able to do part of the KDF content depending on how long they have to play or what time they log on MORE bennificial to the faction than them being able to do it any time?"
Actually, I already did. Here is the quote from an earlier post:
"If anything, maybe the faction that controls the territory gets extra rewards or bonuses for the missions in question."
Once more, I am all for capturable territores in PvP. However, I still dont understand why you think content only being available part of the time is somehow better than it being available all of the time. Please explain your answers to my questions above so I can understand your reasoning here.
Okay,
Last try. I honestly thought I had addressed the questions...maybe it is a matter of language or misunderstanding the concepts behind the idea, I don't know. I had thought it was pretty self-evident. I guess that in a literal-minded way, I should break it down again. Here goes.
Question 1: how does creating a bunch of new KDF content but only making it availible PART of the time MORE bennificial than making it available ALL of the time?
First of all, it is not NEW content. It is content that ALREADY exists -- it just is not open to Klingon Players at this point because it all exists in Federation space. The missions are ALREADY THERE, as are the rewards, the NPCs, what have you. Secondly, having it availabe for PART of the time is better than NEVER HAVING IT ALL. I think that the disconnect is that you think this would be entirely new content -- it isn't. It simply leverages what already exists as content, however, because it is Fed content in Fed areas, Klingons cannot simply waltz in an do those missions...so...tie it to PvP -- make it so that we technically occupy that territory through a PvP "threshold" system that allows a faction to win access to previously forbidden areas. That is the basic idea.
Question 2: How is a person not being able to do part of the KDF content depending on how long they have to play or what time they log on MORE bennificial to the faction than them being able to do it any time? Once again, it is a matter of OPTIONS. This plan would ADD TO/SUPPLEMENT THE KLINGON CONTENT. The existing content would not diminish in any way...this would be supplementat content that could be played by the faction IF IT IS EARNED BY THAT FACTION through the threshold system.
But hey...as the above poster pointed out...it is somewhat doubtful that Cryptic would tie anything directly to PvP in this manner.
Oh well. It was just an idea.
no to any modification of old sectors torwards pvp.
When I say "new", I mean new to the KDF faction, not new to the game. I understand your talking about converting Fed episodes to be playable by KDF. Moving on, I'm not sure why you seem to think the choices are either your idea or nothing, because they ALSO have the choice of making them playable ALL the time. So once more, IF the Devs actually took the time to convert these episodes to KDF, why should they choose to make them only available part of the time instead of all the time?
Ah well.
I hope I did not come across as "my way or the highway" lol. Perhaps in attempting to communicate the elegant simplicity of the concept, I got lost in the wording, and it sounded like this was the only solution to the woes regarding Klingon play.
It most definitely isn't.
Other options:
1. The devs create pure Klingon content and bring us more on par with the Federation. As far as I know, this is the plan as it stands right now. The problem is that there are limited resources, and this is going to take a great deal of time and man-hours to accomplish. Although time estimates are probably really wild guesses...I have heard it bandied about that 2 years is what is needed in order for the Klingon faction to be on equal footing with the Federation content that is present today. Of course, in 2 years, the Feds will be even further advanced.
The one thing that offsets this is that the Devs are releasing "universal" content -- the dailies and weeklies that can be done by both sides. It is definitely a step in the right direction, but it is not enough to make the two factions anywhere near co-equal..but in the long run it can certainly offset some of the lack of Klingon PvE content significantly.
2. There has been some talk in the forums regarding the possibility of merging the two factions into a single faction - basically Federation and Klingons become co-equal parties in a single alliance. This is just player talk, and the devs (as far as I know) do not take this idea seriously. Still, in fairlness, I mention it because it is another idea that is floating around out there.
3. Do away with the Klingon faction entirely. This has also been bandied around some by the player base...but once again, I don't think that this is an option, and I do not think that the Devs consider this a serious possibillity, however, once again in the interest of fairness, it is mentioned here.
4. My idea - to tie PvE access to Federation content based on a threshold PvP system. This is actually not a new idea to MMOs, as many MMOs have this type of system, or a system that is similar, in place. Personally, I like this idea a bit better than totally open PvP -- don't get me wrong, I think that open PvP could be interesting...but the raw, unaltered truth is that the Klingon Empire is probably outnumberd 10 to one or better at most times during a 24 hour day. In situations like these...it really does not matter how good of a PvPer you are -- you are going to go down under the sheer numbers...so open PvP, although it looks and sounds like a good idea, would probably mean being crushed by the weight of the Federation player base.
The end goal is to make the Klingon faction more relevant, with more options, more content, and things to do. If I had my wish...I would desire more "pure" Klingon content that captures the playstyle, culture, society, and attitudes within the Klingon stereotype...but that is somewhat unlikely, unfortunately -- at least it is unlikely in the short term.
You know, Nagus..I went back and read some of your past posts just to see where you stood on issues...and at one time you were all for an open PvP system if I read you correctly. So....why the change of heart?
Did I read you wrong in that at the start of this thread you were against PvP content in general, and that you were happy just grinding away with the limited Klingon faction PvE (nebulas, etc)?
Ah well. It really does not matter. It is nice to have pipe dreams, I guess, and entertaining in its own way, too. All that I can really say for certain is that I am looking forward to new Klingon content - and will be happy when it arrives, regardless of its form.
I hate to say this, but I really dont understand why you keep avoiding my actual question. My question, as posed in my previous post is:
If the Devs actually take the time to convert the Fed episodes to be playable by KDF, why do you think it is better to only have them available part of them time rather than all of the time?
Alternative wording:
You think content that is only available part of the time is better than content that is available all the time because _____________?
Alternative wording:
Pick one of the following:
A) content that is only available part of the time
Why do you pick A instead of B?
I really dont know how to word that to make the meaning any clearer, and I would REALLY like to hear your answer to that specific question. Now, to actually answer YOUR question, my stance on PvP has not changed at all from the quote you posted. Just read my 2nd reply in this thread.
Okay, I think I see what you are saying.
First of all..."conversions" are not needed...or rather, there should be minimal modifications to the already neutral content on the Fed side.
As to why it would be "conditionally based" -- that is self evident, but I will spell it out anyway -- the reason why access would be conditionally based and therefore only available part of the time (based on the conditions set by PvP) is for the simple reason that these missions are available in FEDERATION space only. So...to gain access to the missions...you have to gain access to Federation Space...to gain access to Federation Space, you would need to meet the PvP conditional threshold. If I was not clear before, then let me reiterate -- winning the PvP threshold opens up Federation space -- specific Federation owned sectors -- for Klingon incursions. The missions in those areas would become available the Klingon faction until the Klingon faction loses the PvP threshold advantage, or loses it due to a threshold reset, which I proposed would occur weekly. Then the process would start over again to regain access to those same areas.
Now...as far as what I would PREFER...I think I also made that clear as well. Fully unique, new, Klingon -only content that is available all of the time to the Klingon Faction only would be great and is, of course, my first choice. Unfortunately, and not to beat a dead horse even more, we have been told that this is not a short-term reality...
You have to understand that the content described in this idea basically is NOT Klingon content - it is FEDERATION content made accessible to Klingons by right of conquest on the field of battle. The reason why it is conditional is that you have to give the other side a chance to deny us that content, as we did gain it through warfare. That is only fair. In terms of conversions, there is a lot of Federation content that would not need any modification at all to do -- examples include the Crystaline Entity, and many of the Cardassian and Romulan missions, such as the sector patrols, etc., and the deep space encounters in other areas of the game. Some unique content -- such as the ability to blockade positions in the enemy area, or clearing out those Federation Transports that wander around the home sector for emblems or rewards could also be cool...but that would be a "second phase" kind of deal.
But hey...we are talking hypotheticals here...as well as the fact that all of this effort and thought are only partially formed ideas with a low chance of being adopted. If it was adopted as part of the STO universe, the idea would need some additional work to make it feasible.
Does that clear things up for you?
It finally clears up why you feel the way you do, so thank you for answering. However, the game itself proves your reasoning wrong. There are quite a few Fed episodes in Fed territory where you fight Klingons, so that means Klingons ARE in Fed territory. Furthermore, there are quite a few Fed episodes in OTHER FACTION's territory. Therefore your reasoning that you can only do episodes in territory you control is wrong according to the game itself. So once again, if the Devs take the time to make these episodes playable by Klingons, theres no reason they shouldnt ALWAYS be playable regardless of what faction controls the sector. I still think capturable sectors is a good idea, but there is absolutely NO reason KDF players should be locked out of content that they could be playing.
I have no objection to having them influence each other in the form of faction wide buffs for doing what they do. For Example:
PvP'ers winning more matches/owning more territory in the open pvp zone providing a faction wide buff to Skillpoints/Honor/merit accumulation.
PvE'ers collecting X number of crafting components/completing X number of "aid to the front" style missions providing a faction wide discount on emblem/mark vendors.
By going down this route, giving rewards for both sides of the playerbase doing what they do best, but not having the rewards be so influential that they're considered to be required to complete their favourite gameplay type you breed a little more cooperation, and you are less likely to get nasty, flaming posts along the lines of "F*** those X'ers, they're not doing their job which means I don't have access to Y whenever I log in. You guys suck!"
My opinion -- this type of system would not breed resentment.
I really, really hate to make comparisons...but look at World of Warcraft, and the Wintergrasp PvP event that happens every few hours....
The faction that wins gains the shops, NPCs, and the Instance that can only be obtained in Wintergrasp -- and the content becomes universally available the faction that controls Wintergrasp. If you are not familiar with WoW, then know that Wintergrasp is an entire region in the Warcraft world -- very similar to one of our Sectors. What's more, the entire faction gains a Buff for experience and I think Damage throughout the game world whereever they may be until the next PvP session...the faction that loses also loses access to all of the NPCs, the instance there, etc, until they can win it back.
There is absolutely no resentment between PvPers and PvE players in WoW that I know of -- in fact, PvE players appreciate the opportunity to do the Vault Instance, gain heroic badges, and use the NPCs in Wintergrasp.
As far as content goes...Nagus...you will see that I mention repeatedly Cardassian, Romulan, and events like the Crystal entity. I also mention in a previous post that the Klingons present in Fed space could be considered a rogue house or whatever...there are many, many different lines of argument that you can take with this reasoning...There are just as many faction-neutral missions and content on the Fed side as there is content that is crafted specifically for Feds vs. Klingons. The idea I am getting from you is that this would be a good idea if that content was modified and open to Klingons all of the time...I understand that sentiment..but you do realize that what you are talking about in this particular case is to merge the two factions into one, right? That is practically the only way to have the Fed content available to Klingon players 100% of the time. If that is what you are proposing, then to be candid, I would rather not have that system in place, and will be more than willing to wait the two years to bring us up to speed at least a bit. Bowing to the Federation is simply not an option for me...nor is it an option for many other Klingon players, I think. That is capitulation in the name of expanded PvE, and that simply does not make sense.
But, this is just an idea -- one that I think still has merit. Will it ever be considered? I sort of doubt it, but I have enjoyed the conversation. It has been enlightening. Thank you to all who have contributed.
You seem to be very, very confused. YOU are the one who suggested that Klingons be able to play Fed episodes, not me. You posted this thread, remember? I am simply saying that IF that were to occur, that the content should be available all the time, not just part of the time. Thats ALL I'm saying. Its actually pretty hard to understand why you seem to think it is somehow vastly different than what you are proposing. The ONLY differnce in "your way" and "my way" is I'm saying that if "new"(we discussed this earlier so dont get confused by my use of that word) content is opened up to the KDF(as you are suggesting happen here), that that content be available all the time.
the klingon delima is harsh and at best can be argued on both sides. the problem is the STO team didnt do much research on the klingons. for that matter on majority of star trek. there old executive producer swore they did but from the looks of it, they didnt.
klingon content to me is easy. what do the klingons love more then blood wine. thats simple a nice war between themselves lol there ya go content filled and its about time for another civil war between houses lol. Oh not your cup of blood wine. fine. take over a world in fed territory and hold it until your outpost can arrive. do this and you can gain that territory on the map. be quick as you only have a few days to move in and surprise the fed dogs. HMMM no, not enough contentt filled hmm how about this. its time the gorn stop being weak prey. make them capture some romulan worlds or for that matter a few romulan sectors for the empire. are they brave enough. oh wait no gorn ships to do that darn. okay let a klingon house or several houses try and do it. whats that you say STO team. there is no tech for such a content filled ep. darn i thought i had them at there.
hahahahha ya gotta love this though people
Maybe an accolade or title for doing this mission. Qo'nos Killer or something along those lines.