test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Countering the Nebula...
System
Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
Klingon PvP has adjusted...somewhat...to the implementation of Federation highly advanced ships with special powers, although to be completely fair, I think I have seen more and more victories going to the Feds in PvP lately -- some of that is duue to to more capable ships, but there are also some players on the Fed side that are learning more about PvP. In most cases, the matches are becoming much more of a contest, too.
The inclusion of new Federation ships with special abilities and strengths has helped to swing the PvP advantage a bit the other way. That is undeniable...but soon we will faced with yet another new Federation ship -- the Nebula. This particular vessel nullifies the Klingon's principle advantage in tactical warfare -- it reveals our ships, and allows the enemy to strike before we are ready to uncloak and fire.
We all recognize that this is a significant advantage that is specifically pointed towards the PvP balance. I am not saying that this power is OP - that is not the discussion point of this thread - what I wanted to try to do is to discuss ways to counter the Nebula -- especially when it is technically going to be the most difficult ship to kill. That judgment is based on the fact that it is essentially a science cruiser -- the nebula can field as many as five science powers, and has a Commander Engineer as well. It has a high hull as a cruiser, and increased crew over any other science ship. Lastly, it has eight, instead of six, weapons points, which is a major increase in broadside firepower. Add to all of that the ability to unmask our ships, and what we have is a deadly ship that can play a significant role in PvP.
So...how to counter it? I guess the only way to counter it is to kill it first...but that -- as noted above -- is probably going to be difficult if it is piloted by someone who knows what they are doing. Another possible tactic is to maybe keep it continuously stunned so that it can't do anything...but that can only happen if you have a large number of Klingon science officers on our side as well, which is not very likely (especially in a PUG).
Oh well. I guess it does all boil down to killing it first, if possible. Wolfpack tactics won't work well - it has the capability to see the cloaked "wolfpack" closing in and can spring the trap before we get into engagement range.
Maybe a carrier could counter it? If so...how?
The inclusion of new Federation ships with special abilities and strengths has helped to swing the PvP advantage a bit the other way. That is undeniable...but soon we will faced with yet another new Federation ship -- the Nebula. This particular vessel nullifies the Klingon's principle advantage in tactical warfare -- it reveals our ships, and allows the enemy to strike before we are ready to uncloak and fire.
We all recognize that this is a significant advantage that is specifically pointed towards the PvP balance. I am not saying that this power is OP - that is not the discussion point of this thread - what I wanted to try to do is to discuss ways to counter the Nebula -- especially when it is technically going to be the most difficult ship to kill. That judgment is based on the fact that it is essentially a science cruiser -- the nebula can field as many as five science powers, and has a Commander Engineer as well. It has a high hull as a cruiser, and increased crew over any other science ship. Lastly, it has eight, instead of six, weapons points, which is a major increase in broadside firepower. Add to all of that the ability to unmask our ships, and what we have is a deadly ship that can play a significant role in PvP.
So...how to counter it? I guess the only way to counter it is to kill it first...but that -- as noted above -- is probably going to be difficult if it is piloted by someone who knows what they are doing. Another possible tactic is to maybe keep it continuously stunned so that it can't do anything...but that can only happen if you have a large number of Klingon science officers on our side as well, which is not very likely (especially in a PUG).
Oh well. I guess it does all boil down to killing it first, if possible. Wolfpack tactics won't work well - it has the capability to see the cloaked "wolfpack" closing in and can spring the trap before we get into engagement range.
Maybe a carrier could counter it? If so...how?
Post edited by Unknown User on
0
Comments
Why do you need to bother taking it out first? Sure, it will pick up any cloaked ship within 10km of any fed ship, but most klinks seem to start their attack run at 10km anyway. It will simply prevent klinks (esp BOPs)
from sneaking up on fed ships - they will just have to learn to keep their distance. As to whether this will prevent battle cloaking - well you will just have to run away instead. I don't see how modifying tactics to the Nebula can be very difficult.
Just start your attack run earlier and learn to use evasive maneuvers. 10km can still surprise an enemy and not give them time to hit their buffs anyway.
The real difficulty is in using the Nebula to detect cloaked ships. Fed tactics will have to change in order to use the Nebula to full advantage. Obviously, fed ships moving 10km away from each other to give max stealth range will break up the group and make taking out ships a whole lot easier for klinks. Not to mention that for the first few days, all the cruisers in PvP will be nebulas - you hardly need more than one.
GW+TR to stall it out and kill it.
Constant pressure from Tac builds to keep it occupied.
JS or SS to maybe reverse its anti-cloaking grid power temporarily, if SS even has such an effect?
EWP to slow it for the easy kill.
Most klinks uncloak at 5km to maximize cannon dammage which is at a culmuliative loss at any distance past 2km from target. At 10km cannons hit like marshmellows and beams are only slightly better, so some form or tactic to disable the "anti-cloaker" is needed.
Then when you decloak you can pop a weapon battery and transfer power to weapons and you will have your dps potential pretty quickly.
Otherwise, just split the Klingon wolfpack into 2 groups. Have the first group of 2 ships (tanks?) close within the detection range to draw the fire. The other 3 can come from a flank position and target a ship once they are distracted.
Good point...but consider this -- in PvP what is the one ship that should be taken out as quickly as possible first? It is either an escort (to run up the score quicker) or a science ship. The Nebula is essentially a science ship. With its defensive capabilities, it will be much more survivable than the DSSV or RSV, especially if the universal BO slot is slotted with another sci officer.
All in all, I have to admit that in looking at the Nebula on paper...it will be an amazing ship. The universal slot gives it a significant level of flexibility -- shoot -- with another tac officer in there witih CRF 1, you could concievably run a single cannon/all turret boat (with two CRF abilities to keep rapid fire up continuously...). With another sci officer you gain some additional survivability and perhaps am additional debuff or root power.
All of this does make it a significant threat in PvP -- not saying anything new there, I guess.
I like the ideas so far. I also wonder if SNB will take down the grid. A high AUX might also work as suggested too.
You forget that the adequate turn rate of the RSV and DSSV means you can load it up with torps, maybe leaving one slot fore and aft for beams. This means you can ram max power into aux and not worry about weapon power. Aux is key to success in a science vessel, which relys on aux powers to take out shields and torpedoes to take out hull. The Nebula will get extra hull, but at the sacrifice of a cmdr sci slot and the high turn rate.
To put it another way, an escort using sensor scan still isn't going to spot you at 10km. A science ship might. If it acts like a sensor scan, science ships and possibly the nebula itself might be the more dangerous spotters, especially if it can be stacked with sensor scan. Escorts and cruisers you can likely ignore as far as detection threats go. But it still remains to be seen how it will compare, how it will stack, etc. etc.
Target NEBULA KILL NEBULA. lol CLOAK
Sit at Spawn seeing as Cyrptic thinks random spawns where a bad idea. GANK Nebula Over and Over.
I'm kidden... really I don't think the Nebula is going to be all that much a bit deal. This reminds me of the Gal X worries, then we realized that they where sitting ducks that went BOOM real easy like.
I love nebula class, easily one of my favorite ships... but all blow up just the same.
at around 5:07 to 6:245
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-7kYxydf_c&feature=related
Which would be a great additional to General Chang's BoP and his chicken!
At launch Feds had better ships than the KDF.. And they lost horribly
Theyve recieved several new ships, each expanding their range of capabilities.. They still lost horribly
Then they got a cruiser with significant tactical options.. And they kept losing horribly
Now they will get yet another "I-Win" ship.. Guess what.. They will lose horribly.
Around 95% of all Feds I see in PvP are utter jokes..
No.. We will see many of these ships, atleast for starters, CD and Duration will be irellevant.
What will affect its ability in PvP is:
How well do it detect? Will it be countered by high aux setting? Will the "buff" itself be boosted by the auxsetting on the ships *in* the grid, or only on the Nebula?
For this skill to be most effective, the Feds need to split up.. That is a new gameplan for most of them..
Seriously.. It wont be a problem, in the vast majority of fights.
Err, you must be a klink... trying to trick us like that. How dishonorable of ya. Feds splitting up will mean you can pick them off one by one. Is breaking safety in numbers for a little extra cloak detection range really worth it?
I would imagine that the buff will be boosted by aux power. It seems natural, seeing as all other cloaking equipment and detection is affected by aux.
10 characters
safer than on my own...
Indeed.. So, no.. Us Klingons wont really be afraid of the Nebula.. We might see more loose Fed formations, but if you have say 10k between ships, you have 40k from edge to edge.. This means the entire formation would be vulnerable to quick hit and run attacks..
Ideally youd have a Nebbie in center, and a pair of cruisers on the edge of arenas, tucking the escorts in between them.
Mock not the chicken!
Its tasty and he hasn't shared the recipe yet.:p
Personally I think the nebula release is a perfect excuse for the Dev's to design a Klingon counter-part.
Its an age old fact that when one antaganist reveals a new toy, the other is usually quick to design a counter to it.
I want to call it "Umbrella of Doom". Which is not cool.
Sell ad space on it to the Travellers corp and make sone side money.:p
One thing to try is to go in with some heavies (like Battle Cruisers and Carriers) first while uncloaked. Develop the enemy's resources, then attack with BoP's (and possibly a couple of Raptors) from cloak once that happens. Rather than throwing it all in at once, maybe sending things in as task forces.
This may not work, however, as STO is designed and balanced almost entirely around burst damage at this point. Your heavies might just get bursted to death too fast for your strike wave to move in. It might be that this general aspect of game design will need to be looked at, but this is a complicated subject for another thread.
My personal belief is that the entire detection/stealth and by extension electronic warfare systems of STO are severely lacking. Development of that needs to be more of a contest between powers, energy levels, timing, and clever captaining. Right now, it is a system of "click it and forget it". Think in terms of submarine vs destroyer warfare from World War 2 wolf pack engagements. This would, however, be a time and resource intensive overhaul to STO.
Someones been playing too much Starcraft 2.