Does anyone realize that we don't even know what the council does exactly yet?
With all due respect to my fellows, voting and opening the council up for votes is the worse possible thing Cryptic could do. Before, anyone gets their back up allow me to explain.
First off, Cryptic is a company not a country. Democracy does not work inside a corporation. There are reasons why companies have hierarchys. There has to be a chain of command in side a corporation. Lets face one fact. Cryptic is a corporation and their purpose is to make money. I realize some might point out we are talking about the council and not the corporation directly but that is my point. The council could claim they want everyone to have pink phasers and shoot cheetos and the Cryptic Execs and CBS wouldn't allow it.
Second, the logistics concerned with a vote would be a nightmare. If you have ever tried to hold a vote with a group of 10 or more people with diverse opinions it is like walking up hill 14 miles in the snow... backwards. At the end of the day no matter how the vote does you are going to disenfranchise someone.
Third, how is Cryptic supposed to give out information to a group of people who were voted in, in what essentially becomes a popularity contest? Perhaps the Council will see metrics that aren't available to the public. With the democratic structure you would have to have a person (at Cryptic) vet all that information before the council could look at it. Sure, they are going to do some of that anyway but you increase the amount of mistakes that way. With a appointed council Cryptic has much more control over any information.
Despite popular belief corporations have to control their information.
Lastly, A voted in council runs the same risk of being ineffective as an appointed one. People who run but don't get elected start machinations about the council. It leads to politicking and strife. Can anyone think of an election that didn't? Furthermore, we don't even know what the responsibility of this council or committee will be. It isn't like we are talking about a Parliament or Congress. What I think is really needed is some perspective on this issue.
How about just listening to people via polls or surveys etc? Maybe make the council more than a whopping 4 people who have motives to not make waves? Honestly I do not care I can play STO for free and I do not. Why I am even bothering when its obvious cryptic is only listening to lifetime members and these 4 council guys. I dont normally throw away money but I did here.
How about just listening to people via polls or surveys etc? Maybe make the council more than a whopping 4 people who have motives to not make waves? Honestly I do not care I can play STO for free and I do not. Why I am even bothering when its obvious cryptic is only listening to lifetime members and these 4 council guys. I dont normally throw away money but I did here.
Hey man, I agree with what you are saying about this Council thing being handled improperly; but now you are just trolling. Please keep these posts constructive and on-topic, else this thread will get closed and hit the trash pile.
You know . . . you are absolutely right. This Advisory Council thing is being handled properly! I feel confident that Chris will be a good representative of the community. He won't even let the Devs get a word in edge wise!
But in all seriousness . . . the idea behind an Advisory Council was to give the players a voice in the direction the game is going. I really don't want the dude representing the players to sit there and interrupt them every five seconds with old stale jokes which constantly fall flat.
This could have been done in a way where players really took ownership of the game. Where the players actually did something to ensure that their ideas were being heard and met. Yeah, this isn't a Democracy; but last I checked, Monarchy's and Corporate Bureaucracy never did well to satisfy the people.
Corporate Bureaucracy doesn't satisfy the people? So we are going to start worrying about things like the proletariat now? Instead of workers of the world unite it is gamers of the world unite? What about all those corporate bureaucracies that give you almost everything you enjoy in life?
Back on topic. They already said they use a variety of sources to determine the "pulse" of the community.
What the hell is that site? It looks like an old Geocities page!
Nuh uuuuh, That, my friend, is a Star Trek Online fansite.
Did you not see the awesome, photoshopped Tribble cereal pic.
Clear indication that this is the person we need if we want to see improvement in Star Trek Online.
Don't speak to me about having a grasp on reality when your entire argument is to reduce people you don't know, on sites/podcasts you clearly haven't bothered to look at as a result of any of this, into one dimensional business yes men on the basis of your complete and total ignorant conjecture about what they'll actually do on this 'council' and how it will supposedly make them money.
Would they not be yes men giving the fact that they operate a STO Fan website? If they weren't they would have been roundly denounced as a hater site and blacklisted by the Dev's and the rather radical fans.
Your argument is illogical.
Hey man, I agree with what you are saying about this Council thing being handled improperly; but now you are just trolling. Please keep these posts constructive and on-topic, else this thread will get closed and hit the trash pile.
So saying listening to more than 4 people is trolling? Saying to use polls or something to talk to more than 4 people is trolling? I just do not understand your definition of trolling and it simply proves my point. Only people who say things nice about the game will get listened to.
Also to have some input do I now need to jump on these fan sites and hope I kiss enough butt to get them to forward one of my suggestions? Seems to me a serious win for these guys. Advertising revenue will be through the roof.
It's how it works. There may not be a monetary arrangement at present but the logical conclusion is that advertising dollars (euros) will flow to these sites at some point if they stay within the undefined but implied and understood bounds of criticism.
These members will be compensated somehow. Being a member of this council gives them status and power of a type. The trifecta is always Status, Power and Money.
At the very least they will probably be invited to the Cryptic holiday parties.
Im done with these forums and STO. Wasted money which Ive learned my lesson. This is my final post on the forums and since I havent even loaded STO in a couple weeks I will simply uninstall and chalk it up to experence.
Does it seem to anyone else that Cryptic keeps shooting themselves in the foot, so to speak?
I have no problem with a player council. I do have a problem being told who will represent me, charter members or not.
FWIW, I have no problem with the STOked guys....and I would have probably voted for Jeremy if I actually had that choice. I have no problem with any of the players Cryptic has chosen really...I have a problem with the way Cryptic went about it.
And ANYONE who would nominate them self and proclaim they can speak for the players would NOT get my vote.
Nuh uuuuh, That, my friend, is a Star Trek Online fansite.
Did you not see the awesome, photoshopped Tribble cereal pic.
Clear indication that this is the person we need if we want to see improvement Star Trek Online.
Sounds more to me like Cryptic is grasping at straws to fix their game that is hemorrhaging players at an alarming rate.
Ask them Monday if they still have "over 100,000" active players. I bet they won't give an answer, because the answer will be no.
Does anyone realize that we don't even know what the council does exactly yet?
With all due respect to my fellows, voting and opening the council up for votes is the worse possible thing Cryptic could do. Before, anyone gets their back up allow me to explain.
First off, Cryptic is a company not a country. Democracy does not work inside a corporation. There are reasons why companies have hierarchys. There has to be a chain of command in side a corporation. Lets face one fact. Cryptic is a corporation and their purpose is to make money. I realize some might point out we are talking about the council and not the corporation directly but that is my point. The council could claim they want everyone to have pink phasers and shoot cheetos and the Cryptic Execs and CBS wouldn't allow it.
Second, the logistics concerned with a vote would be a nightmare. If you have ever tried to hold a vote with a group of 10 or more people with diverse opinions it is like walking up hill 14 miles in the snow... backwards. At the end of the day no matter how the vote does you are going to disenfranchise someone.
Third, how is Cryptic supposed to give out information to a group of people who were voted in, in what essentially becomes a popularity contest? Perhaps the Council will see metrics that aren't available to the public. With the democratic structure you would have to have a person (at Cryptic) vet all that information before the council could look at it. Sure, they are going to do some of that anyway but you increase the amount of mistakes that way. With a appointed council Cryptic has much more control over any information.
Despite popular belief corporations have to control their information.
Lastly, A voted in council runs the same risk of being ineffective as an appointed one. People who run but don't get elected start machinations about the council. It leads to politicking and strife. Can anyone think of an election that didn't? Furthermore, we don't even know what the responsibility of this council or committee will be. It isn't like we are talking about a Parliament or Congress. What I think is really needed is some perspective on this issue.
i think your missing it man. cryptic wants to hear from us the players. so he wants us to go to site full of cuss words and what they ate for breakfast. sign up for it to be heard. I have yet to see any company do something like this
Traffic on your website = money. I dont know how much more simple I can make it. Money = good. No money = bad. Making dev mad = bad which = no money which we already know = bad. If you cannot understand that then you simply are trying to troll the thread baiting people.
Let me make it simple for you.
Those sites are going to make no money at all. STOked? Voluntary donations to pay for the bandwidth. STARFLEET? Nutters who have been running a fan club for thirty five years clearly couldn't give a damn since it's a subscription fanclub. Shut Up Wesley is a headtrip on a tumblr account, and a site which already proudly boasts being the highest ranked Trek news site anyway.
Yeah, I'm sure these people are all going to be raking it in. Anyone with the slightest clue about running a website is going to take one look at all four and immediately know that money isn't something that's going to be happening there. At all.
And? They're players with a conflict of interest in the game. That alone should prohibit them from having any additional say in these matters. Its just a cheap way to get people to do the job of dealing with the public that the other avenues toward this end have failed to provide.
Using that flawed logic, then no one should be on the council, because we all have a conflict of interest. Each of us has opinions on what the game needs, what it doesn't, what needs to be fixed, etc... As such, none of us can be trusted to give reliable data to the Devs that isn't colored by our own motivations.
Using that flawed logic, then no one should be on the council, because we all have a conflict of interest. Each of us has opinions on what the game needs, what it doesn't, what needs to be fixed, etc... As such, none of us can be trusted to give reliable data to the Devs that isn't colored by our own motivations.
My logic is flawless. Saying otherwise simply invalidates anything further you might have contributed. This is only further evidenced by your own fallacious logic. My interest and your interests are the SAME interest - we want to play this game. Their interest is entirely different - they want to play this game AND gain recognition for their Trek-related endeavors.
Couple themes in this thread I want to address here:
1) The members of the council are just charter members. That doesn't mean new people from the community can't join. If you're interested in becoming a member, drop Mot the Barber a line. His email is in the news post.
2) This council exists in addition of all the other stuff we're doing (and planning) to get feedback from you guys. This includes more polls, more dialogue on the forums, and so on. It's not replacing anything. It's just another place to get feedback from people.
3) We want people critical of the game to share their opinions with us. Getting alternative viewpoints is just as important as finding what people like about the game. That's something we're constantly tracking and taking to heart as we develop the game.
Still amazes me that, left without community input, you have no (obvious) Klingon players on your council.
This is one of those ideas that sounds nice in theory, but in reality very little ever becomes of it. So honestly its not really worth getting upset over who is or is not on the thing. Or what process is used for putting them there. :rolleyes:
i think your missing it man. cryptic wants to hear from us the players. so he wants us to go to site full of cuss words and what they ate for breakfast. sign up for it to be heard. I have yet to see any company do something like this
I don't have a problem with cuss words but I could care less what they had for breakfast
Yeah but you can't say that the handling of certain topics have been top notcch can you?
In a couple of days we have this whole captains log thing on show for EVERYONE to see.....Personally it should be up to me if I want other people to see my char info and logs. I know I will NEVER RP with my captains log from now on. Bad implementation right there.
Player council that is handpicked is not a player council......another bad implementation right there again
I could go over so many other topics that have been just handled all wrong.
WHY is nobody in cryptic giving a voice of reason? Why does there seem to be so little common sense in Cryptic?
I'm all for direct feedback with Devs regarding game improvement based on player response but I fail to see how these chosen few are going to represent the players.
Is there an official place for me to place ideas/complaints with these people or do I have to sign up for each individual website to have a voice with STO? Why do I need an "unofficial" voice to speak for me?
Will there be an "in-game" council somewhere, where I have to be ushered down a long hall for them to hear my plea?
I really thought that the forums were a good place to get player feedback. The forum is where those of us who care most about the game come to voice our ideas? Despite the troll threads, there are plenty of great ideas and regular posters who frequent this place.
These are the few questions I ask myself when I read something like a council but absolutely zero info is posted as to its actual workings or implementation.
Cryptic should of announced the idea of a player counsel and let people who where interested in said counsel e-mail a "story" as to why they want to be on the counsel. So lets say they want 10 people on the counsel., but they have oh 50 people.
Create a website with all the e-mails and let the people vote on 10 players to be on the counsel. Is it a popularity contest? Yes, but so is voting for a government official.
Cryptic should of announced the idea of a player counsel and let people who where interested in said counsel e-mail a "story" as to why they want to be on the counsel. So lets say they want 10 people on the counsel., but they have oh 50 people.
Create a website with all the e-mails and let the people vote on 10 players to be on the counsel. Is it a popularity contest? Yes, but so is voting for a government official.
Just my 2 cents.
Ack......sorry buddy but this idea really is awful.
Voting for a government official is ONLY a popularity contest BECAUSE people are too stupid to do anything about it.
Hence why we have Mr Change we can believe in......currently not changing anything for the better. He has not ended the Afghanistan war like he promised. He has brought in a Healthcare reform which is LADEN with hideous evil nastiness the like of which I have never seen.
Voting should never be about popularity. As some people like to say 'period'.
In a couple of days we have this whole captains log thing on show for EVERYONE to see.....Personally it should be up to me if I want other people to see my char info and logs. I know I will NEVER RP with my captains log from now on. Bad implementation right there.
I see what they were going for but I do feel a little more security is needed.
Comments
How about just listening to people via polls or surveys etc? Maybe make the council more than a whopping 4 people who have motives to not make waves? Honestly I do not care I can play STO for free and I do not. Why I am even bothering when its obvious cryptic is only listening to lifetime members and these 4 council guys. I dont normally throw away money but I did here.
Hey man, I agree with what you are saying about this Council thing being handled improperly; but now you are just trolling. Please keep these posts constructive and on-topic, else this thread will get closed and hit the trash pile.
Corporate Bureaucracy doesn't satisfy the people? So we are going to start worrying about things like the proletariat now? Instead of workers of the world unite it is gamers of the world unite? What about all those corporate bureaucracies that give you almost everything you enjoy in life?
Back on topic. They already said they use a variety of sources to determine the "pulse" of the community.
Nuh uuuuh, That, my friend, is a Star Trek Online fansite.
Did you not see the awesome, photoshopped Tribble cereal pic.
Clear indication that this is the person we need if we want to see improvement in Star Trek Online.
Would they not be yes men giving the fact that they operate a STO Fan website? If they weren't they would have been roundly denounced as a hater site and blacklisted by the Dev's and the rather radical fans.
Your argument is illogical.
So saying listening to more than 4 people is trolling? Saying to use polls or something to talk to more than 4 people is trolling? I just do not understand your definition of trolling and it simply proves my point. Only people who say things nice about the game will get listened to.
Also to have some input do I now need to jump on these fan sites and hope I kiss enough butt to get them to forward one of my suggestions? Seems to me a serious win for these guys. Advertising revenue will be through the roof.
Im done with these forums and STO. Wasted money which Ive learned my lesson. This is my final post on the forums and since I havent even loaded STO in a couple weeks I will simply uninstall and chalk it up to experence.
Does it seem to anyone else that Cryptic keeps shooting themselves in the foot, so to speak?
I have no problem with a player council. I do have a problem being told who will represent me, charter members or not.
FWIW, I have no problem with the STOked guys....and I would have probably voted for Jeremy if I actually had that choice. I have no problem with any of the players Cryptic has chosen really...I have a problem with the way Cryptic went about it.
And ANYONE who would nominate them self and proclaim they can speak for the players would NOT get my vote.
Sounds more to me like Cryptic is grasping at straws to fix their game that is hemorrhaging players at an alarming rate.
Ask them Monday if they still have "over 100,000" active players. I bet they won't give an answer, because the answer will be no.
i think your missing it man. cryptic wants to hear from us the players. so he wants us to go to site full of cuss words and what they ate for breakfast. sign up for it to be heard. I have yet to see any company do something like this
Let me make it simple for you.
Those sites are going to make no money at all. STOked? Voluntary donations to pay for the bandwidth. STARFLEET? Nutters who have been running a fan club for thirty five years clearly couldn't give a damn since it's a subscription fanclub. Shut Up Wesley is a headtrip on a tumblr account, and a site which already proudly boasts being the highest ranked Trek news site anyway.
Yeah, I'm sure these people are all going to be raking it in. Anyone with the slightest clue about running a website is going to take one look at all four and immediately know that money isn't something that's going to be happening there. At all.
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~Iylenya"
Using that flawed logic, then no one should be on the council, because we all have a conflict of interest. Each of us has opinions on what the game needs, what it doesn't, what needs to be fixed, etc... As such, none of us can be trusted to give reliable data to the Devs that isn't colored by our own motivations.
My logic is flawless. Saying otherwise simply invalidates anything further you might have contributed. This is only further evidenced by your own fallacious logic. My interest and your interests are the SAME interest - we want to play this game. Their interest is entirely different - they want to play this game AND gain recognition for their Trek-related endeavors.
Still amazes me that, left without community input, you have no (obvious) Klingon players on your council.
I don't have a problem with cuss words but I could care less what they had for breakfast
Heh. Exactly right. And proven true week after week.
How can there EVER be real progress when at every step along the way the forums end up divided BECAUSE of the bad implementation.
It just boggles my mind.
Who have they got running this show?
LOL sooo say we all.
Forums end up divided pretty much no matter what.
Let's all get drunk and play ping pong!!!
Yeah but you can't say that the handling of certain topics have been top notcch can you?
In a couple of days we have this whole captains log thing on show for EVERYONE to see.....Personally it should be up to me if I want other people to see my char info and logs. I know I will NEVER RP with my captains log from now on. Bad implementation right there.
Player council that is handpicked is not a player council......another bad implementation right there again
I could go over so many other topics that have been just handled all wrong.
WHY is nobody in cryptic giving a voice of reason? Why does there seem to be so little common sense in Cryptic?
Common sense......Cryptic needs more of it.
Is there an official place for me to place ideas/complaints with these people or do I have to sign up for each individual website to have a voice with STO? Why do I need an "unofficial" voice to speak for me?
Will there be an "in-game" council somewhere, where I have to be ushered down a long hall for them to hear my plea?
I really thought that the forums were a good place to get player feedback. The forum is where those of us who care most about the game come to voice our ideas? Despite the troll threads, there are plenty of great ideas and regular posters who frequent this place.
These are the few questions I ask myself when I read something like a council but absolutely zero info is posted as to its actual workings or implementation.
Create a website with all the e-mails and let the people vote on 10 players to be on the counsel. Is it a popularity contest? Yes, but so is voting for a government official.
Just my 2 cents.
Ack......sorry buddy but this idea really is awful.
Voting for a government official is ONLY a popularity contest BECAUSE people are too stupid to do anything about it.
Hence why we have Mr Change we can believe in......currently not changing anything for the better. He has not ended the Afghanistan war like he promised. He has brought in a Healthcare reform which is LADEN with hideous evil nastiness the like of which I have never seen.
Voting should never be about popularity. As some people like to say 'period'.
The answer that that question is obviously no.
I see what they were going for but I do feel a little more security is needed.
See, I disagree a tad here. I honestly think they should be appointed. (I listed the reasons why in one of these threads