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Craig Zinkievich on the new death mechanic
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Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
Craig Zinkievich wrote:In terms of traditional death penalties, think about what a death penalty really is: Its a time penalty. You died; therefore were putting you in time out for X amount of time. Or, you died, therefore were forcing you to spend X amount of money, which takes Y amount of time to earn. Why would you force people to stop having fun, and sacrifice their free time, just to disincentivize behavior in a videogame? I get that people want to feel a sense of risk when theyre fighting in battles, but if the only emotion you feel when youre playing a game is fear that youre going to lose some time due to an arbitrary gameplay mechanic, were probably not doing something right. Its like asking why single-player games have quicksave options.
But that said, we are looking into finding a meaningful way to give players a deeper sense of loss when something bad happens. But we want it to feel right, rather than just like an arbitrary penalty.
Sounds promising, im looking forwards to see what it is.
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1. spawning in the middle of a 30 ship fleet in DeepSpaceEncounters
1a. delete this ****ing "flagship - yeah i kill you all instant" spawn after a DSE is finished.
2. there hast to be added a "thread" mechanic and some "thread generating abilities" so that escorts are not punched all over. ground combat is the same, im always focused by ALL enemys, without doing something.
3. make out and correct ALL bugs, that lead or can lead to not player faulted deaths.
4. LOWER explosion damage to space ships DRASTICALLY. its unfair to escorts, they are blown up even with 100% hull.
the next questions would be, what happens to abbandon ship and ramming speed then?
if you do it in reverse, adding DP BEFORE that, ALL, me included will leave the game.
I agree with this, I'm wanting a death penalty but unfortunatly the game as it is, is just too buggy to be able to implement it safely.
I've died a few times in the game, but every time it has been due to a bug or poor game mechanic, level 45 spawns in level 6 zones, lag, been blown up by other people self destructing at Sol, etc. Quite frankly if there had been a death penalty of any kind it would only have focused more attention to the poor mechanics currently implemented in this game.
Sounds ok to me.
Well i would say you need to learn how to limit incomming fire by attacking with your ship at angles that only allow one hostile ship to be in range instead of the entire fleet.
The ground combat is the same, a lot of weapons hit at 30m so theres no need to sit in the middle of evey npc on the grid soaking up fire, limit the range as npc's do not hit past 30m so the one your shooting is the only one that needs to be within 30m, use doorways and other cover to limit line of sight so only a few npc's can see and shoot at you.
Its not the game its you in this particular case in my opinion.
LOL...no game in the history of mmo has even solved every bug dude.
4. LOWER explosion damage to space ships DRASTICALLY. its unfair to escorts, they are blown up even with 100% hull.[/QUOTE]
Watch your ranges from other ships, you do not need to sit on summats hull to kill it.
They become exactly what they are supposed to be....last resort tactics instead of leeroy exploits.
I certainly wont, but then i know how to play the game properly and dont have impossible expectaions about a game having no bugs.
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Yesterday i was soloing a Cube in a Deep Space Encounter, got it down to 30%.
Then it got me with a tractor beam, while trying to get myself away before i finish it off, 5 idiot players show up and instant own the cube.
And of corse the explosion kills it me because i had no shields. :rolleyes:
Then there is still spawnfragging in DSE, a fleet spawnining right under your nose while already fighting another, griefers blowing you up with abandon ship, your Officer opening a window and stopping the ship right next to a ship thats about to blow up... etc.
please read the sentence again.
all bugs , KOMMATA, THAT cause ... i didnt meant ALL bugs in game, but ALL THAT LEAD to, read it. thx.
and to the ground combat, read it again, i said, i am having aggro though doin NOTHING at all. all enemys are always following me, even if i get my away team first in, and DOING NOTHING
HELL read before you post. its annoying to post everything twice.
and
"Watch your ranges from other ships, you do not need to sit on summats hull to kill it."
1st: escorts NEED to do exactly THAT casuse turrets cannons and beams do far more dmg @ close range.
2nd: did you notice, that there is a huge possibility of OTHER players downing a ship while youre still about to manuver???????? i cant do anything against it, and I AM taking the DP then.
and 3rd: as i said its unfair to escorts and science , cause they are blown up even with complete hull, cruisers survive it, its just unfair mechanic, as soon as there is a DP.
it the same thing as in crystalline entity: whats the heck with a fleet action if it only needs ONE MORON to make the whole thing fail?
Shat happens
I do not need to reread it as its impossable to clear and keep clear a game all bugs of that type or any other type for that matter.
I have seen no ground combat missions that were totally flat with no cover or room to move and retreat.
Pull back and keep retreating to reduce npc's in range of you, use doorways to limit incomming fire when inside, use rocks or other cover to limit how much fire you are taking outside...........basic ground combat cc tactics dude.:)
It helps to be close but not on a hull, plus escorts are fast enough to get out before a ship pops even without the speed buffs the game gives us.
You really should be paying attention to what is going on...if your not well i suppose your gonna have to start....:rolleyes:
Sorry but if you are not doing these things you need to start as they are basic CC combat tactics.
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Youre right, and its ok with me as long as im not punished for other peoples mistakes.
Right now its: *sigh* my comrades are stupid
With a DP it would be: f****** r*****, now i lost <something>, just because there are to stupid to play the game
Or if its through a bug, AGRR I f****** hate Cryptic.
And id rather have it stay the 1st one.
The reason i posted this was because he clearly says he dislikes standard DP's and is looking into other options for STO.
Im not sure why ppl who read his comments think that its gonna be so harsh when he clearly says otherwise...
You did see this bit right?:
Seems like they are gonna do something differant than normal, and it will be tried and tested for ppls opinions on tribble first anyway.;)
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And well even if the DP isnt harsh its still annoying if you looose something? well not loose something? i have no idea what but it has to be something bad otherwise it isnt a penalty, because someone else screws up.
Edit: hehe how about a penalty for those guys that blew me up?
too bad the game couldnt really know how stupid they were and penalize them.
the enemys are F O L L O W I N G me. 1.056 sec of cover do not work. i have to keep three seconds ot of fingt to recover shields, thats impossible if EVERY npc enemy is following me, did you just get that?
if i want a game where i have to run and wait for my away team to kill others, i can back to my wow resto druid.
Ok so they follow you...you know you can run to gain distance right.
I dunno why you are getting or allowing them to all get so close but i suggest you use range and the terrain better, i know i had the same problem when i first started playing the game so i do get what your saying i just know there is a player tactic solution to it and its not a bug or flaw in the game design.
especially in the cases i have mentioned, where there is no real threat control, in space and ground, and as soon as there are stupid spawns that kill one instant, and as soon there are bugs that cause my death, and as soon as the stupidity of other players is killing ME.
thats why i dont want ANY DP at all, for the moment! for the moment. if i die because im heavily doing something wrong, its okay, but in most cases im dying of other players faults or of unavoidable gamemechanics.
Im not sure what to say to that, i have got 2 toons to admiral 5 now and as such i have learned that very few of the so called bugs actually kill you if you are paying attention. The deep space encounter spawn point could do with adjusting but even that can be instantly warped away from if you are paying attention when you are sucked in.
Even in infected where you get held loads on ground combat you can easily survive if you use cover, tactics and do not forget to get hypos and shield charges to help heal yourself.
I was more happy about cryptic having the idea of a more positive DP than the standard negative ones you seem to be refering too, but if it is a bad one be assured il be posting against it along side you bud.;)
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That may be the intended point of a DP system, yet when it comes to "smarter teamplay" that notion fails more than it succeeds, most notably on PUGs. Players will do what they can to save themselves and avoid a penalty long before they will help someone else.
The the OP:
Do you have a link to where you got the quote from in your original post?
Everytime you would normally die, a redshirt takes your place.
Oh, wait, he said deeper sense of loss. hmmm.
Maybe you lose a Bridge Officer? (Of course, Starfleet sends you a replacement - but... it's not the same guy.)
Besides, who dies a lot anyways?
My buddy has 4 Rear Admirals now. The last 3 characters he played from Ensign to RA5 and never died once.. 135 levels without a single death. My own RA5 died 4 times total since launch. My current Commander has never died.
So in my case... Cryptic is doing tons of extra work for something which I would have experienced a whole 4 times since launch... And have not experienced at all in the last 2 weeks.
What a total waste of time and resources.
Thats game design flaw.
So yeah I agree, I should not have to pay a penality for dying due to bad game design.
Other then that, a chimp could go though this game and not die, its so easy.
Even that initial selfish attitude will ultimatly promote team play and for those who never learn to play nice......well they wont get a gang will they.
DUN DUN DUUUUNN!!!...:D
http://www.incgamers.com/Interviews/246/star-trek-onlines-craig-zinkievich
I understand what you mean, but with 99% of the game (as with most other MMOs) being soloable, there isn't much need to team at all so there is no incentive there.
Thanks for the link!
Thanks for the link dude!
Nice thought in theory, but it relies on Cryptic doing something right because STO is very weak and one more downside can sink it. Second, your dealing with emotional opinion, I already feel consequences to dying in game I don't need a new mechanic telling me how I need to already feel. It is doubtful that it will impress any feeling on the type of people who were chiefly complained about (Zergers). Lastly, if we are talking about feelings then the death penalty can be a simple thing like "YOU DIED" and some blood on your screen or some cut scene of your funeral, which won't satisfy the gaming elitist who are demanding punishments not emotional consequences.
All in all it is a weak arguement for a death penalty, coupled with cryptic trying to do something right.
I did not post it as a argument FOR a death penalty i posted it so those who are screaming about EVE style DP's and the end of STO and perhaps even all life on earth would maybe chill a bit and stop drama bombing theads with "were all dooooomed" attitudes.
Who are these people and what threads are you referring to? Since you are a "new" poster and this being your first set of posts, you betray a certain history with others that your account shouldn't suggest...
You weren't posting under a different account until recently where you?
As for flying my escort against 3 or more ships, I've learned that there's nothing wrong with the escort ships or tactical officer abilities, but the Tanking tactic (going into the heart of things and blowing everything up) doesn't work here. I've had to learn new tactics when flying escorts.
As for people using self-destruct in Sol: Not possible anymore. Hasn't been since a week after launch. Cryptic has made it so that Self-Destruct is greyed out while in maps like Sol, DS9, or Starbase 39-Sierra. Therefore, this "reason" is not a valid one.
And like others have said in this thread: Cryptic is not going to put it's new content on hold to fix all existing bugs in the game, even if you were referring to "non-player faulted deaths". There are enough people on these forums (though they do not speak for the majority of players) complaining that there isn't enough content to begin with. YOU then go and suggest that what new content they want to add, to shut those people up, should be put on hold, until the game is even easier than most people think it already is? Really?
NGTH friend. Learn to the play the game, rather than QQing to the devs. They have enough to deal with as is.
See how it applies?
You ever had those moments in a game where your losing and you go all out? And you BARELY pull it off and live and you are like HOLY HELL THAT WAS AWESOME. And you wanna do it again? Playing some matches of starcraft 2 recently made me feel that, and it's been awhile. But whats so wrong with having that feeling in this game?
I think catering to the casuals is a bad idea. And honesty lis ruining every game out there that the maker listens to them. One thing to listen to them and make the game better.. But it's another to keep the nerfs coming and make it so easy a 3 yr old can play it. Ask yourself, has there been HOLY TRIBBLE, moment in sto where you pulled something off by the skin of your teeth. I honestly can't htink of one. That game's been extremely laid back and boring.
To quote captain janeway from S2 EP 23 - When you over come fear, you have joy.