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Hidden religious message in Klingon?
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Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
I've noticed the Klingon phrases used in the game come from a variety of sources, some good, some bad, and some weirdly out of context.
But when you do the /mokbara emote, you say this phrase:
yIn Daq joH'a' tuq reH
In Klingon it's not grammatical and it's pure gibberish. But I figured Cryptic lifted it somewhere so I googled it and found a website of a guy who purports to translate Bible passages in Klingon. He uses an English-Klingon computer lexicon to look up the Klingon approximation of individual English words and copies them down still using the original English word order. Even though he's been doing this for years, he pays no attention whatsoever to Klingon grammar, syntax, or the actual meaning of the words themselves.
According to his site:
yIn Daq joH'a' tuq reH is supposed to mean
"Live in the house of the Lord forever", a paraphrase of Psalm 23.
I don't really care about the inappropriate religious message but I'm annoyed at the appalling misuse of the Klingon language in the game. You can't just look up English words in a dictionary verbatim and call it Klingon. The Klingon language has it's own unique grammar. It reminds me of the Monty Python's Life of Brian scene where Brian writes "Romanes eunt domus" for "Romans go home!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsawP_Ew0r4
Cryptic, if you want to put Klingon phrases, please do it right. Please don't use crappy computer Klingon from dubious sources off the web. If you want to say this correctly in Klingon, use something like:
reH joH'a' juHDaH bIyInjaj (May you live in the house of the Lord forever.)
Another translation that annoys me in the one you use for the Undine - something like qa'meH quv which purports to mean "one who replaces honor with dishonor". The phrase you use actually means "honor of replacement" which makes no sense.
"One who replaces honor with dishonor" would be: quv quvHa'ghach je tamwI'
Or simply: quv tamwI'
Cryptic if you need help with your Klingon, send me a PM. I used to be one of the grammarians for the KLI.
But when you do the /mokbara emote, you say this phrase:
yIn Daq joH'a' tuq reH
In Klingon it's not grammatical and it's pure gibberish. But I figured Cryptic lifted it somewhere so I googled it and found a website of a guy who purports to translate Bible passages in Klingon. He uses an English-Klingon computer lexicon to look up the Klingon approximation of individual English words and copies them down still using the original English word order. Even though he's been doing this for years, he pays no attention whatsoever to Klingon grammar, syntax, or the actual meaning of the words themselves.
According to his site:
yIn Daq joH'a' tuq reH is supposed to mean
"Live in the house of the Lord forever", a paraphrase of Psalm 23.
I don't really care about the inappropriate religious message but I'm annoyed at the appalling misuse of the Klingon language in the game. You can't just look up English words in a dictionary verbatim and call it Klingon. The Klingon language has it's own unique grammar. It reminds me of the Monty Python's Life of Brian scene where Brian writes "Romanes eunt domus" for "Romans go home!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsawP_Ew0r4
Cryptic, if you want to put Klingon phrases, please do it right. Please don't use crappy computer Klingon from dubious sources off the web. If you want to say this correctly in Klingon, use something like:
reH joH'a' juHDaH bIyInjaj (May you live in the house of the Lord forever.)
Another translation that annoys me in the one you use for the Undine - something like qa'meH quv which purports to mean "one who replaces honor with dishonor". The phrase you use actually means "honor of replacement" which makes no sense.
"One who replaces honor with dishonor" would be: quv quvHa'ghach je tamwI'
Or simply: quv tamwI'
Cryptic if you need help with your Klingon, send me a PM. I used to be one of the grammarians for the KLI.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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On the other: Completely awesome.
In the end, you have my complete support - if they're going to do it, they may as well do it correctly.
Keep in mind, I barely speak any second language above the level of a 18 month old...French, Spanish...even Swahili(yeah, Swahili
Maybe you should volunteer your translation services.
The Klingon language is a real language and is taught in certain places as a proper subject.
They don't have to be experts. They got some of their other phrases out of a Klingon phrasebook. It's really just some rogue programmer pulling a fast one.
Everything in Star Trek is fiction. What's your point?
Star Trek has been around a long time and it's different things to different people. In a game called Star Trek, people want a certain degree of realism, authenticity, and continuity.
Some want "realistic" starship movement. Starships are fiction too you know.
Some want authentic costumes: stuff like female dresses from TOS, comm badges from DS9.
Some want realistic bridges where they can sit in a chair, watch the viewscreen, use the controls.
Some want death penalties as it's not "realistic" to trivialize death.
Some want missions that more strictly adhere to certain Rodenberry ideals and principles or Starfleet protocols.
For me, I just don't want to see people in Sol Station quoting scripture in Monty Python-eque Klingon. Is that too much to ask?
honestly, I believe I speak for the majority when I say this;
no one cares. fix the important stuff first.
Um.... I didn't say that they should be fixing it right now ahead of the important stuff.... If you read my message (which you clearly didn't, just hit "QUOTE" and said whatever you wanted to) all I said was that I can't believe they made these errors in the first place... which has nothing to do with what you responded to me with....
And as a side note, although I agree they should fix the important stuff first (even though this would take all of about 10 minutes to fix) clearly people DO care, or this topic wouldn't exist...
As far as priorities go, I agree that some gameplay mechanics -- like Klingon PVE content -- should come first. But I also feel that changing already in-game text phrases wouldn't require too many resources, and this can be accomplished alongside other tasks.
The reason why I would advocate more canonical Klingon language in-game is that it fleshes out the Klingon game faction a lot more, especially as a 'meta-game'. Consider the tribble breeding meta-game, which is Federation only, and how well-developed it is. Klingons should get something similar, and the language would be one step in that direction.
QFT this issue is absolutely minor, there are far greater issues that completely break immersion
Some fat guy with a combover and enormous thighs was lecturing one of them on how to properly say "Kaplahjh!!" or something. You could tell the Klingon guy in his hot suit just wanted to curb stomp that guy.
Yeah a real made up language.
They need to worry about Swimsuits for Risa long before this!
heh just curious.
I don't see how changing in-game Klingon text -- to be in line with canon language -- diminishes anyone's gameplay or entertainment.
As for priorities, I think the DEVs are well aware that other content should take precedence. Does that mean this should never make it onto the list at all?
Lastly, I saw a criticism of this idea from the standpoint of fiction vs. real life... Well, all of Star Trek is fiction, but it has an established canon that separates it from other fiction. A specific Klingon language is part of that canon, complete with its own rules and vocabulary.
Now, I'm not suggesting that any game developer needs to learn this language for the sake of the game, but I do think it would add to the immersion if canonical phrases were somewhere on the list of things to do for the Klingon faction.
Correct usage of the Klingon langauge should be added to the list of things to fix.
-mathematics is a made-up language
-English is a made-up language
-C++ is a made-up language
What is a language? It is a collection of words (vocabulary) with a set of rules (syntax, grammar) for using those words.
In the Star Trek TV shows and films, Klingon characters are not speaking random sounds. They had a linguist create a language for them to use for the sake of continuity.
Is this -- creating a whole language just for fiction -- geeky? Yes. (See J.R.R. Tolkien, author of Lord of the Rings, and also a professor of linguistics. He created -several- languages.)
Should this be in the game? In my opinion, yes. We already have some of it. For consistency, change the inconsistent parts to be consistent.
EDIT: Similarly, is playing a computer game, where you are a character in Star Trek, geeky? Yes.
Reverse argument. If everything is just random made-up bits put together, then give me a lightsaber and Star Destroyers. Also, I would like to fly into battle on a dragon. Why can't we have this? Because Star Trek, in legal terms, has an established canon. The Klingon language is part of it.
Ignore him, he's just a troll.
My god man... way too much time on your hands. I hear spanish is nice.... also, it's used all over the world instead of just amongst nerds.
Delusions held by one is called insanity, delusions held by a few is called a cult, and delusions held by many is called a religion.
When insulting multiple geeks, use the plural.
Sujatlh 'e' yImev toDSaHpu'! Hab SoSpu'ra' QuchDu'.
I had six years of Spanish in school. I also took courses in Japanese, German and Latin; I have a degree in Russian; I taught myself Esperanto and Klingon; and I've causually studied a bunch of other languages. I just enjoy learning languages.
Can you name a official source for the Klingon Language?
There is none, the Klingon language is made up, just like Elvish, and the language of the Navi.
Your statement makes no sense, since there is nobody who uses Klingon for commerece, communication and disimination of information in the execution of everyday life it is about as official as the language of Wookies.
So if the source is from a dubious website, a dubious college who offers the useless language as a elective or a dubious book, it is all dubious.
Is an insult a insult if the person insulted does not realize they were insulted and so does not react to it?
It only makes the insulter look stupid...