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Forums > Home› Star Trek Online General Discussion

Federation Escort Ships that Cloak

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited July 2012 in Star Trek Online General Discussion
I am curious to know why Federation Escort Class ships don't cloak. They do in the Star Trek Series.
Read this wiki article for details. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Defiant
Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    The Defiant's cloak-- if my DS9 trivia hasn't completely left me by now-- was more or less a one-time occurrence since the Federation's treaty with the Romulans insists Starfleet never develop cloaking technology. Further, I think the cloak itself was on loan from the Romulans for use against the Dominion, though I may be wrong on that count.

    Game-wise, you can have a pseudo-cloak for your escort in Mask Energy Signature (a Bridge Officer skill), though it's not nearly as effective as a real cloak.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    There have only been two cloaking ships in the federation (3 if you count the Enterprise D taking the phase shifting cloak from the Pegasus to get out of an asteroid). The federations treaty with the Romulans ban the federation from using cloaks, although apparently the Federation still honors this treaty as they are not technically at war with the Romulans to the best of my knowledge and they want to uphold their reputation for honoring treaties and such.

    The Defiant had a cloaking device, which was "on loan" from the Romulans, as the Romulans had no intel on the Gamma Quadrant and did not wish to send any ships. It was loaned under the condition that it was not to be used in the Alpha Quadrant (that was broken a few times) and that all intel from the Gamma Quadrant would be shared with the Romulans. No other Defiant class ships had a cloaking device.

    The Pegasus was a secret federation research project into phase shifting (flying through other matter) cloaking device. Riker was a member of its crew and the ship was lost in a testing accident and stuck in an asteroid. It was found by the Enterprise (The admiral in charge of the project sent them to find it), in the process the Enterpise was trapped inside the asteroid by a Romulan vessel. They fit the cloaking device on the Enterpise and flew out of the asteroid, they then proceeded to tell the Romulans about it and apologize.

    To the best of my knowledge those are the only cloaking devices every used on federation ships.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Dont forget the future Enterprise D from 'All Good Things' had a cloaking device :) If that ship had it in the future (which is now the past in this game) why not other Fed ships now ? :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    kanid wrote:
    Dont forget the future Enterprise D from 'All Good Things' had a cloaking device :) If that ship had it in the future (which is now the past in this game) why not other Fed ships now ? :D

    one thing about that one thoe TIME LINE
    look and the end of the episode again
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    ..........
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    rchicken wrote:
    I am curious to know why Federation Escort Class ships don't cloak. They do in the Star Trek Series.
    Read this wiki article for details. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Defiant

    and ask for th it was destoryed in a later episode
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Yeah yeah so the Enterprise D was destroyed. You could argue whether the course of events after that were truly changed except for a few peoples destinys. Data clearly is still alive in this game. We dont know if Troi died at some point or not, do we ? The Pasteur is a Hope class ship, thats in this game. Is it not then possible that Starfleet has use of cloaking technology since the formal Romulan government is no more (which was the same in that episode if I recall, although due to different circumstances).

    Arguably this game is 5 years after the future time reference in that episode. I infer this because of Geordis line that it has been 25 years since they were all together on the Enterprise and the last time they were all together was before Riker got the Titan in 2379.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    kanid wrote:
    Dont forget the future Enterprise D from 'All Good Things' had a cloaking device :) If that ship had it in the future (which is now the past in this game) why not other Fed ships now ? :D

    True, the future Enterprise-D did have a cloakig device. But in that timeline the Klingons had taken over the Romulan Star Empire, so I presume any treaties the Federaton made with the Romulans, including the agreement over a cloaking device, would be null and void. In this timeline, the Romulan Star Empire is still very much intact, despite Romulus' destruction, making the treaties and agreements still legally binding.

    Oh, and the Defiant's cloak was only supposed to be used inside the Gamma Quadrant anyway, and it was used in the Alpha/Beta Quadrant once, if memory serves.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    The Defiant had a Romulan cloak that was lost when the ship was destroyed. The second defiant couldn't cloak.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    thecapitaine wrote: »
    The Defiant's cloak-- if my DS9 trivia hasn't completely left me by now-- was more or less a one-time occurrence since the Federation's treaty with the Romulans insists Starfleet never develop cloaking technology. Further, I think the cloak itself was on loan from the Romulans for use against the Dominion, though I may be wrong on that count.

    Game-wise, you can have a pseudo-cloak for your escort in Mask Energy Signature (a Bridge Officer skill), though it's not nearly as effective as a real cloak.


    since the treaty is obviously blown to heavens.. i don't see why federation can't develop cloak now .
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    LAMNSK wrote: »
    since the treaty is obviously blown to heavens.. i don't see why federation can't develop cloak now .

    Because it's against the whole feel of the Federation.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    geofftillman wrote: »
    Because it's against the whole feel of the Federation.

    i think i can safely say the majority of us don't get the "feel of the Federation" from the game

    just because we can dock with starports and speak to the great admiral via com link doesn't really gives the feel to it ...

    imo i feel like we are mercs just flying around killing anything and everything that don't agree with us
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    rchicken wrote:
    I am curious to know why Federation Escort Class ships don't cloak. They do in the Star Trek Series.
    Read this wiki article for details. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Defiant

    Only 2 Fed ships cloaked, the Defiant, and the Enterprise in "All good things". Other than that the reason they didnt have cloak was because they had made a agreements with the Romulans that they wouldent. Seeing they are not at war with the romulans (at least currently) the agreement still holds.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Here is some history for some:

    This same conversation in Closed Beta (with Dev response):

    http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?p=1280990


    This same conversation in Open Beta:

    http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=84870


    This same conversation (twice) in the Online Discussion forum (above):

    http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=115555

    http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=112541


    The same conversation in the Combat forums:

    http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=95826


    I hope that helps. :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Cryptic has killed the Lore anyway and the Federation will need a Cloak otherwise they will dis-advantage them selfs in war agasint what 3-4 factions ?....
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Sorry, "No" to Fed cloaks. This is a defining feature of the Klingon faction.

    PvP QQers go away!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Dark-Oberion wrote:
    Sorry, "No" to Fed cloaks. This is a defining feature of the Klingon faction.

    PvP QQers go away!

    i agree some what fed's do not need cloaks it is uncano and i for one will stop play if they do let fed's ues them
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Dark-Oberion wrote:
    Sorry, "No" to Fed cloaks. This is a defining feature of the Klingon faction.

    PvP QQers go away!

    Just so you.... The Klingon empire stole the Cloak desgin from the Romulans....
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Pacifica- wrote:
    Just so you.... The Klingon empire stole the Cloak desgin from the Romulans....

    I thought it was that the Romulans had cloak but no warp drives (only impulse).. The Klingons had warp drives but no cloak.. So they made a swap. Though I could be mistaken. :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Asakara wrote:
    I thought it was that the Romulans had cloak but no warp drives (only impulse).. The Klingons had warp drives but no cloak.. So they made a swap. Though I could be mistaken. :)

    I was pretty sure the Klingons stole the device from the Romulans... oh well will have to try and find it some where lol
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Pacifica- wrote:
    I was pretty sure the Klingons stole the device from the Romulans... oh well will have to try and find it some where lol

    Here is a nice citation: http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Romulan_Star_Empire

    After the brief Romulan-Klingon Alliance in 2268, the Romulans exchanged their cloaking technology for the D7-class battle cruisers. (TOS: "The Enterprise Incident")

    :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Asakara wrote:
    Here is a nice citation: http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Romulan_Star_Empire

    After the brief Romulan-Klingon Alliance in 2268, the Romulans exchanged their cloaking technology for the D7-class battle cruisers. (TOS: "The Enterprise Incident")

    :)

    Bah thats right.. well im sure they would have stolen it from the Romulans if not for that trade off lol ^^

    Infact I bet the Klingons wish they did steal it after all since the Romulans started to make their own Ships from reverse engineering that D7 ^^
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    kanid wrote:
    Yeah yeah so the Enterprise D was destroyed. You could argue whether the course of events after that were truly changed except for a few peoples destinys. Data clearly is still alive in this game. We dont know if Troi died at some point or not, do we ? The Pasteur is a Hope class ship, thats in this game. Is it not then possible that Starfleet has use of cloaking technology since the formal Romulan government is no more (which was the same in that episode if I recall, although due to different circumstances).

    Arguably this game is 5 years after the future time reference in that episode. I infer this because of Geordis line that it has been 25 years since they were all together on the Enterprise and the last time they were all together was before Riker got the Titan in 2379.

    Just to get details straight (I can be a stickler for detail), as I recall, the Pasteur was an Olympic Class Starship.

    http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/USS_Pasteur
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    HIstory of cloak tech from Wiki:
    The Romulans developed a successful cloaking system by 2266, which they tested on a next generation Bird-of-Prey, that they dubbed a ghost ship, in raids against Federation outposts along the neutral zone. (TOS episode: "Balance of Terror")

    The new Romulan cloak used so much power it precluded the use of weaponry and warp drive and the USS Enterprise was able to track it. However it could still be considered a success and the Romulans quickly advanced the design to make its use more practical. (TOS episode: "Balance of Terror")

    While the Romulans were developing their new device Klingon agents became aware of it and the Klingon operative Korlat was sent to begin talks with the Romulans to make an alliance between the two powers, with the Klingons hoping to gain access to the technology in the process. The alliance was agreed upon by the power-hungry new praetor, though other parts of the Romulan government saw other advantages in the alliance, such as "containing" the Cardassians. (TOS comic: "Alien Spotlight: Romulans"; DS9 novel: A Stitch in Time)

    As they hoped the Klingons did receive cloaking technology in the alliance, while the Romulans were given Klingon starships. (TOS episode: "The Enterprise Incident"; et al.)

    With two enemy states using cloaking technology, the Federation was keen to find ways to detect cloaked vessels to the extent that they even stole a Romulan cloaking devise from a Romulan battlecruiser in 2268. (TOS episode: "The Enterprise Incident")
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    rchicken wrote:
    I am curious to know why Federation Escort Class ships don't cloak. They do in the Star Trek Series.
    Read this wiki article for details. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Defiant

    No thanks. Working as intended.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    LAMNSK wrote: »
    i think i can safely say the majority of us don't get the "feel of the Federation" from the game

    Maybe you should try harder then. :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Federation Escort should be able to Cloak.

    Not Cruisers. Not Science.

    We're at WAR. The treaty is over. We have the Technology.

    T5 Escorts should have a Cloak IMHO.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    On the plus side, we can finally whine that the fedball's cloak is too OP...Then once some of the whiners realize cloak is a hard skill to learn they will finally understand how it works. I can see it now..."Why are they still hitting me when I'm cloaked??" and "why do the torps find me when I'm cloaked!?!?!?".
    This is not pointed at the true Fed folks that don't complain and do realize it's not the end all be all defense.
    I'm really waiting for when they release the FvF PvP and we start seeing the complaints of, "The science ships are so OP!!"
    Honestly, if it is OP, find a way around it, use different tactics, learn, adapt and destroy.
    Sorry for the rant and to the true good players thanks for keeping the PvP fun and exciting.
    I guess I better duck....
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    armageddonx wrote: »
    Federation Escort should be able to Cloak.

    Not Cruisers. Not Science.

    We're at WAR. The treaty is over. We have the Technology.

    T5 Escorts should have a Cloak IMHO.

    We're NOT at War with the Romulans. We're at war with the Borg and the Klingons. We're trying to contain the Terran Empire and the True Way in Cardassian Space.

    The only reason we fight any Romulans, is because they're trying to develop subspace weapons to get revenge for their lost homeworlds.

    And even if we were officially at war with the Romulans, the Federation wouldn't abrogate the treaty, even if the Romulans did. That's not how the Federation does things.
    Pacifica- wrote:
    Cryptic has killed the Lore anyway and the Federation will need a Cloak otherwise they will dis-advantage them selfs in war agasint what 3-4 factions ?....
    And how exactly has Cryptic killed Star Trek Lore? From what I've been able to tell, they went to extraordinary lengths to include as much canon information in their history from 2379 to 2409, and then some. They even went so far as to include novels and games for post-Nemesis information.

    So again, I ask you, how has Cryptic killed Star Trek Lore?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    And how exactly has Cryptic killed Star Trek Lore? From what I've been able to tell, they went to extraordinary lengths to include as much canon information in their history from 2379 to 2409, and then some. They even went so far as to include novels and games for post-Nemesis information.

    So again, I ask you, how has Cryptic killed Star Trek Lore?

    They pretty much ignored the novels. Though, for whatever reason, they included the comic book where data is revived and made captain.

    _____

    Since we are pretty much at war with the Romulans anyways, i dont see why we are sticking to a treaty that was supposed to ensure peace. escort only Cloaking engineering console would be sweet
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