Tal@Utrium, kudos...you fought well, you only lost because same rank balance bites!

System

I have to say Im a bit disapointed. Tal@Ultrium 1UPed me in combat today...but the tier/rank balance stole his victory. Ive said it before and I'll say it again, the disparity between top level players and lower level players within the same rank is much too great.

Scenerio:

Im running a muck in the PvP session as I usually do, avoiding attackers, harassing the enemy, imploding my advesaries...just a typical day in my BoP.

I see a Fed Ball dismantling a fellow Klingon...its like 4-5 against 1-2(I think they popped a Klingon just before I arrived in range). So as Im moving in, under high impulse and just entering battle cloak, I all of a sudden get an attack warning...."really?...no worries, Im almost done cloaking."

All of a sudden I get tagged with this orange cross-hair/bulls-eye thing"...no worries, im extanding away and cloaked"...then I take fire..."what?!?!?!"

I look behind me and there is Tal in his cruiser(or something...it wasnt an escort) firing a quantum torp salvo at me...and I have no shields up. Then Im hit with phasers and eventually another q-torp. Im down to just below 50% hull and still reeling from the turn of events...but Im extending way.

I look back and it appears Tal may have lost his intermittent/temporary lock on me...I sieze the moment and turn back at about 6km to engage this impressive opponent. I dont think he knows Im coming back around...if only he could see me, I m seeing red, eyes squinting and salivating with a bone in my teeth.

I power up my various BO skills and uncloak at about 6km out...I give him everything I have and his right flank opens up as his starboard shield arc drops...this is my chance...his phasers are hitting my fresh fore shield arc and they are holding for now...but behind that energy veil Im a wreck...this is the disperate act of a cornered animal.

I unleash my HY quantum salvo of my own and he immeaditaly erupts into a firey ball of twisted metal...I plow through the ploom, still stuck in my attack run mentaility...I snap out in disbelief as I punch out the other side.

But the excitement of surviving soon turn into disgust...disgust at my victory. It felt like it was given to me...given to me by a unbalanced, combat model. Its like sucking at the TRIBBLE of an alchoholic...it leaves a bad taste in your mouth.

See, Tal came up as like -8 or something to me. Im a Lt Com 9...I assume he was a Lt Com 1 or 2(Im not sure how that works). How is it that his two qauntum torp shots(one of them a HYT possibly) and numerous phaser discharge only brought me down to +45% hull...but my salvo of cannons and a sinlge quantum impact on his hull pops him(in a cruiser type hull if I remember correctly)?

I had no shields up in a BoP and his two torps should have crippled me...if not popped me The disparity between levels within the same rank is much too high. What happened to him shoud have happened to me instead. I personally dont mind how fast he popped once my torps made contact with his hull...just that I should have been suckng vacuum, not him.

Now this doesnt mean I agree with the fiasco of the torps tracking a vessel after it cloaks...I dont and they shouldnt...but in ths case it seemed to be something else, it appears he had some type of active lock on me after I cloaked...apparently caused by one of his BO skills...these were apparently clean and fair torp hits. I should have paid dearly.

Levels/rank, skills and gearhas much too much to do with vessel resiliency and weapon damage output...it needs to be toned down so that good combat choices can take a greater part in determining victory.

Tal, kudos to you...I salute you, I repect you...I feel you were robbed.

Please feel free to chime in and give your side of the story. I may have miss interepeted some of the events and can only comment on what I saw and perceived during the fight.


Edit
Lastly, I want to say...its not the cloak, its not the weapons themselves that are necessarily unblalanced or Over-powered...I tend to think they are not. Its the special gear and the amount we are allowed to buff(permanent or temporary) performance of gear in game.

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Interesting.

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He may have been in a science vessel, explaining how he was able to get a lock on you while cloaked; this is after all the kind of thing science vessels are for. In such a case, he also has an absolutely pitiful hull as soon as his shields are gone. True, science ships have impressive shields, but absolutely nothing stands up to any kind of escort vessel for long with shields alone.

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This is why I never PvP in any MMO until I hit the top level.

The level disparity makes it pointless if you are below your enemy.

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Why are you extending all over the place? Keep it in your pants man.

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Khorak wrote: »

He may have been in a science vessel, explaining how he was able to get a lock on you while cloaked; this is after all the kind of thing science vessels are for. In such a case, he also has an absolutely pitiful hull as soon as his shields are gone. True, science ships have impressive shields, but absolutely nothing stands up to any kind of escort vessel for long with shields alone.

As I said...Im ok with his ship being taken out of commission with the fire power I brought to bear on him(the total obliteration is a bit much..but thats a MMO for ya)...but my little BoP shouldnt have had the chance to even press an attack like that. I should have popped(since that signifies defeat/being non-combat viable) after the second quantum torpedo hit...both with no shields up.

A Constitution or Miranda...I'd wager even an Intrepid class vessel would have had a hard time shrugging off two direct q-torp impacts. In this case, my two pop his science vessel...my BoP acted like it nothing. My rank based skills and gear allows me to hit too much harder than lower ranked/lesser gear opponents...it also allows me to shrug off too much more damage.

The disparity is too great...the devs told us they were going to make rank and gear less significant in fights. I say they went the totally opposite direction. The buffs and bonuses go too far...the increases need to be reduced.

We'll never be able to have mixed-tier fleet engagements if the disparity between same tiers is already so far apart.

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While I'm not opposed to "flattening" gear and level curve advantages in PvP situations, here are a few potential observations which may reflect upon the actual severity of the disparity in your anecdote. In short, a lot of the things you observed can be explained by mechanics that are neither rank- nor gear-based.

1. In order to catch you in range as you were going into battle cloak, he may have used full impulse power, which would consequently have greatly reduced the amount of damage his energy weapons did to you.
2. Fast-moving targets get a natural bonus to damage resistance, especially if moving at an angle to the firing ship (high-deflection shots do less damage). If he shot from the side - including above or below - he'd take a substantial penalty, and possibly miss with at least one of the torps.
3. T2 BoPs have substantial hull durability, which would have been increased if you popped evasive maneuvers or brace for impact while being hit. Clean or not, 3 torps wouldn't kill you.

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I do wish that ships had systems or weapons disabled as they accumulate damage. A ship that's barely holding together at 25% hull shouldn't be able to behave like a ship running at 100%.

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Edgecase wrote: »

While I'm not opposed to "flattening" gear and level curve advantages in PvP situations, here are a few potential observations which may reflect upon the actual severity of the disparity in your anecdote. In short, a lot of the things you observed can be explained by mechanics that are neither rank- nor gear-based.

1. In order to catch you in range as you were going into battle cloak, he may have used full impulse power, which would consequently have greatly reduced the amount of damage his energy weapons did to you.
2. Fast-moving targets get a natural bonus to damage resistance, especially if moving at an angle to the firing ship (high-deflection shots do less damage). If he shot from the side - including above or below - he'd take a substantial penalty, and possibly miss with at least one of the torps.
3. T2 BoPs have substantial hull durability, which would have been increased if you popped evasive maneuvers or brace for impact while being hit. Clean or not, 3 torps wouldn't kill you.

I dont think he used high impulse since we would have been "engaged" He was not at high impulse when everything started. he may have used high impulse to close the gap shortly after I wa spicked up...butif he used evasive manuvers or enegine batteries, he wouldnt have been penalized with weak phaser outputs(i dont believe).

I wasnt using evasive maneuvers when he first hit me...if anything I was coasting on the inertia from its use not too long before he targeted me. I was on "engine battery" after the first q-trop hit, I was likly on "brace for impact"( I think this skill is bogus, it should have no hull buff...but since they wont or cant fix the torp tracking on non-locked ships after they cloak, it'll have to do...once again, bad combat/game models make for bad, band-aid fixes that open and expose new cracks in the model) and riding the "engine battery" for the second q-trop hit. His phaser hits after my shields were up would have been the first time he'd have a chance to hit me full pwer if he didnt have it before.

Regardless of his energy weapon levels...two q-torps are unaffected by weapons power and should have been suficient to cripple me(in this game the clsest to that being destroyed...either would have been reasonable). The lack of the ability to cripple a ship essentially negated his whole attack, since I was able to come around and take him from shields up to popped in 6km at full impulse(not high impulse).

He did just about everything right...sometimes thats not enough against a better opponent, but in this case, I should not have had the chance to bring my higher rank stats(not my skills necessarily) to bear.

My choices and tactics gave me the chance...but my victory was all in the ship and the stats built into it. The disparity was too great. Yes, one culd argue my warship ought to have a bit more hull to a comparable sized science ship, yes I should hit harder than a comparable sized science ship...I' even say yes I should have been able to pop him like I did....but his weapons(especially his Q-torps) shouldbt be so ineffective that I didnt pop first with two hits unshielded.

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As far as I understand it. Your "Rank" means nothing.

You have levels like any other MMO, they just have a different name. If you're Lt.Com 5 youre not Lt Com 5, you're simply lvl 15. It's all Symantics

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TrenchFeeder wrote:

As far as I understand it. Your "Rank" means nothing.

You have levels like any other MMO, they just have a different name. If you're Lt.Com 5 youre not Lt Com 5, you're simply lvl 15. It's all Symantics

yeah, but Im able to stack my specs much to well if Im 7-8 levels above him. I watch it each night i hop on...the +level ships pop -level ships much easier...they dish out much more damage or have much more whatever.

The weapon, hulls and shield specs should pretty more or less flat through their progression...boost the othe stuff more. That way, once your shell is cracked and the soft under belly is exposed...it'll be definitive no matter who you are, what rank, what ship class, etc...as it should be.

2 q-torps from any ship should hit just about as hard as q-torps from anyother. 2 q-torps should have flatten my BoP, I'd wager 2 q-torps impacting naked hull should have utterly crippled just about any ship minus the Carrier...and severly hampered the Galaxy and Sovy/Neg'var...I dont care if it was fired from a specially equipped Miranda. The vast majority of weapon output is and should be inherit in the weapon itself.