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Tier 2 FvK PVP Balance
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Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
I finally got my Tier 2 ship yesterday and went out to the Zibal system for some PVP. Out of about 15 matches, we (the Feds) won 1 and did fairly well on a 2nd. Most of the matches ended with us scoring 1-5 kills, some ended with us scoring 0 kills. Basically, unless the Klingon players were inexperienced or unorganized, they always won.
Since the end of Closed Beta, PVP with a Federation Escort has worked like this:
1. Fly out to the other Federation Ships (if you can find them).
2. Wait till you hear "Warning the ship is in combat".
3. Try to turn around (or say "One-Thousand-One") before you die.
4. Wait for the timer to reach 0 then click "Respawn".
5. Watch the cruisers and science ships rack up damage while you fly back to the battle.
6. Shoot at the nearest klingon till you drop a shield then watch them cloak and escape.
7. If they kill you again go to step 4 otherwise go to step 2.
It seems to me that there is a serious balance issue and I think the cause is the Tier 2 BOPs. In addition to having the fastest turn rates and the huge advantage of cloaking, they get Cannons AND a Generic Lieutenant Console at Tier 2. This allows them to run the following configuration.
Forward Weapons = 2x Mk4 Dual Heavy Cannons, 1x Mk4 Quantum Torpedo
Rear Weapons 1x Mk4 Turret
Lieutenant Engineer = Emergency Power to Shields (or Weapons), Reverse Shield Polarity
Ensign Tactical = High Yield Torpedoes
Ensign Science = Tractor Beam (or Jam Sensors)
All they have to do is cloak, get behind you, pop High Yield, hold you with the tractor beam, and spam Fire All until you die.
At Mk4, Dual Heavy cannons do about 180 dps (each) and the turret adds about 80 dps to that. High yield Torpedoes will easily hit for 3000+ and they WILL get a 2nd shot for 1500+ more. This means they can deal over 8000 points of damage to one shield in the first 6-7 seconds.
The thing that is supposed to balance out all this damage is that they are not very tough... but this isn't the case.
Even IF you somehow manage to survive AND turn to fire on them, they have Reverse Shield Polarity. This basically gives them 15 seconds of invulnerability to your attacks while they deal another 8000+ points of damage to you. A really good Mk 4 shield has what - 6000 points TOTAL?
And remember - Federation Escorts (and Science Ships) can't get Reverse Shield Polarity until Tier 3.
IF by some miracle, you somehow survive all this and start to damage them, they will either cloak or use Evasive Maneuvers to get out of range before you can defeat them. This makes it really hard to score points because they just hide and heal up when things don't go their way. I always thought it was dishonorable for Klingons to flee from battle but I guess honor is a matter of convenience in PVP.
Federation ships can't even use Evasive Maneuvers to escape because a solo Fed is a dead Fed (and everybody knows it).
Add to this the fact that cloaking allows them to PLAN group attacks against the weakest target (usually the escorts) and you begin to understand why the Feds lose so much in PVP. The opening attack from 2-3 ships is often 20000+ damage - easily 3x the total value of good Mk4 shields. They always gang up on the easiest ship(s) to kill and they don't have to stick around to fight the tougher opponents. They just cloak and wait for the weaker ships to respawn. Rinse, Repeat.
Don't try to say that Escorts are even matches for BOPs because they both have weak shields/hull. Sure they do - but the Klingon ships also turn faster, have Cloaking, and get to use Reverse Shield Polarity to soak up any damage the escort might deal IF it lives long enough to turn around.
Don't try to say that the Fed players have no tactics. How are they supposed to coordinate an offensive against opponents they can't see? The Klingons always control when and where the fight starts. The Klingons always destroy 1-2 ships in the first few seconds of every attack. The Klingons always have the option of cloaking to avoid defeat.
How is that balanced?
IMHO, Cryptic should do five things to (help) fix this.
First, change one of the highest ranked generic consoles for each tier of BOP to Tactical. This would prevent them from getting Reverse Shield Polarity at Tier 2 (10 levels earlier than the Federation Escorts do). Also, give the Tier 2 & 5 BOPs 1 more generic lower rank console so they have the same number & rank of consoles as the other ships of their tier. This will probably result in the BOPs using High Yield 2 or 3x Dual Heavy Cannons and Cannon Rapid Fire (increasing their alpha strike damage) but at least the surviving Feds would have a chance to kill them.
Second, give Federation Escorts an inherent 'Ablative Armor' ability that significantly boosts their damage resistance for a short time. This would help them survive the Klingon combined Alpha Strikes. IMHO, each ship type should have some special ability like the science ships Target Subsystems and the Klingon Cloaking. Cruisers really need one that makes them more Tank-like because as it is now, they do almost nothing to help the squishy escorts or not-so-squishy science ships.
Third, Reduce the effectiveness of cloaking devices based on the ships hull condition. It makes sense that it would be much harder to cloak a ship that's venting plasma, etc. If they have any hull damage at all, they should still be visible and target-able at close range. The more damaged they are the farther away you should be able to see them. This leaves them their precious cloaked alpha-strike but prevents them from escaping combat with 25% hull by just clicking the cloak button.
Fourth, both BOPs and Escorts should get a small but noticeable defense bonus for moving faster. This would encourage them not to plod along at 1/4 impulse blasting away with their heavy cannons - which is just not what escorts and BOPs should be doing. This would be a double edged sword because moving faster also makes it harder to keep their cannons on target.
Fifth, Auto-Group everybody on each side in PVP. I don't know how many times I've joined a match where I can't find the other players on my team because they started at a different spawn point and/or they haven't teamed up. Unlike the Klingons, Feds can't just cloak and go looking around in relative safely. If we can't find the other players before the Klingons find us, we die.
I'm really not trying to whine or be unfair to the Klingons, I just think they have several obvious advantages that create balance issues in Tier 2 PVP. I can't speak to Tiers 3+ because I haven't made it that far. I suspect that in Tier 3 it gets somewhat better for the Feds because the Escorts and Science Ships can pick up better defensive engineering abilities.
Oh well, those are my thoughts - I look forward to reading your replies.
- SC
PS - IMHO If the cruiser fans want to complain that escorts shouldn't be tougher because cruisers are the tanks, then they should actually tank instead of playing DPS while the escorts take all the heat. When was the last time you saw multiple Klingons alpha-strike a cruiser in a group that contained an escort? As it is now the escorts are tanking for the cruisers and science ships by giving the Kligons a better (easier to kill) target.
Since the end of Closed Beta, PVP with a Federation Escort has worked like this:
1. Fly out to the other Federation Ships (if you can find them).
2. Wait till you hear "Warning the ship is in combat".
3. Try to turn around (or say "One-Thousand-One") before you die.
4. Wait for the timer to reach 0 then click "Respawn".
5. Watch the cruisers and science ships rack up damage while you fly back to the battle.
6. Shoot at the nearest klingon till you drop a shield then watch them cloak and escape.
7. If they kill you again go to step 4 otherwise go to step 2.
It seems to me that there is a serious balance issue and I think the cause is the Tier 2 BOPs. In addition to having the fastest turn rates and the huge advantage of cloaking, they get Cannons AND a Generic Lieutenant Console at Tier 2. This allows them to run the following configuration.
Forward Weapons = 2x Mk4 Dual Heavy Cannons, 1x Mk4 Quantum Torpedo
Rear Weapons 1x Mk4 Turret
Lieutenant Engineer = Emergency Power to Shields (or Weapons), Reverse Shield Polarity
Ensign Tactical = High Yield Torpedoes
Ensign Science = Tractor Beam (or Jam Sensors)
All they have to do is cloak, get behind you, pop High Yield, hold you with the tractor beam, and spam Fire All until you die.
At Mk4, Dual Heavy cannons do about 180 dps (each) and the turret adds about 80 dps to that. High yield Torpedoes will easily hit for 3000+ and they WILL get a 2nd shot for 1500+ more. This means they can deal over 8000 points of damage to one shield in the first 6-7 seconds.
The thing that is supposed to balance out all this damage is that they are not very tough... but this isn't the case.
Even IF you somehow manage to survive AND turn to fire on them, they have Reverse Shield Polarity. This basically gives them 15 seconds of invulnerability to your attacks while they deal another 8000+ points of damage to you. A really good Mk 4 shield has what - 6000 points TOTAL?
And remember - Federation Escorts (and Science Ships) can't get Reverse Shield Polarity until Tier 3.
IF by some miracle, you somehow survive all this and start to damage them, they will either cloak or use Evasive Maneuvers to get out of range before you can defeat them. This makes it really hard to score points because they just hide and heal up when things don't go their way. I always thought it was dishonorable for Klingons to flee from battle but I guess honor is a matter of convenience in PVP.
Federation ships can't even use Evasive Maneuvers to escape because a solo Fed is a dead Fed (and everybody knows it).
Add to this the fact that cloaking allows them to PLAN group attacks against the weakest target (usually the escorts) and you begin to understand why the Feds lose so much in PVP. The opening attack from 2-3 ships is often 20000+ damage - easily 3x the total value of good Mk4 shields. They always gang up on the easiest ship(s) to kill and they don't have to stick around to fight the tougher opponents. They just cloak and wait for the weaker ships to respawn. Rinse, Repeat.
Don't try to say that Escorts are even matches for BOPs because they both have weak shields/hull. Sure they do - but the Klingon ships also turn faster, have Cloaking, and get to use Reverse Shield Polarity to soak up any damage the escort might deal IF it lives long enough to turn around.
Don't try to say that the Fed players have no tactics. How are they supposed to coordinate an offensive against opponents they can't see? The Klingons always control when and where the fight starts. The Klingons always destroy 1-2 ships in the first few seconds of every attack. The Klingons always have the option of cloaking to avoid defeat.
How is that balanced?
IMHO, Cryptic should do five things to (help) fix this.
First, change one of the highest ranked generic consoles for each tier of BOP to Tactical. This would prevent them from getting Reverse Shield Polarity at Tier 2 (10 levels earlier than the Federation Escorts do). Also, give the Tier 2 & 5 BOPs 1 more generic lower rank console so they have the same number & rank of consoles as the other ships of their tier. This will probably result in the BOPs using High Yield 2 or 3x Dual Heavy Cannons and Cannon Rapid Fire (increasing their alpha strike damage) but at least the surviving Feds would have a chance to kill them.
Second, give Federation Escorts an inherent 'Ablative Armor' ability that significantly boosts their damage resistance for a short time. This would help them survive the Klingon combined Alpha Strikes. IMHO, each ship type should have some special ability like the science ships Target Subsystems and the Klingon Cloaking. Cruisers really need one that makes them more Tank-like because as it is now, they do almost nothing to help the squishy escorts or not-so-squishy science ships.
Third, Reduce the effectiveness of cloaking devices based on the ships hull condition. It makes sense that it would be much harder to cloak a ship that's venting plasma, etc. If they have any hull damage at all, they should still be visible and target-able at close range. The more damaged they are the farther away you should be able to see them. This leaves them their precious cloaked alpha-strike but prevents them from escaping combat with 25% hull by just clicking the cloak button.
Fourth, both BOPs and Escorts should get a small but noticeable defense bonus for moving faster. This would encourage them not to plod along at 1/4 impulse blasting away with their heavy cannons - which is just not what escorts and BOPs should be doing. This would be a double edged sword because moving faster also makes it harder to keep their cannons on target.
Fifth, Auto-Group everybody on each side in PVP. I don't know how many times I've joined a match where I can't find the other players on my team because they started at a different spawn point and/or they haven't teamed up. Unlike the Klingons, Feds can't just cloak and go looking around in relative safely. If we can't find the other players before the Klingons find us, we die.
I'm really not trying to whine or be unfair to the Klingons, I just think they have several obvious advantages that create balance issues in Tier 2 PVP. I can't speak to Tiers 3+ because I haven't made it that far. I suspect that in Tier 3 it gets somewhat better for the Feds because the Escorts and Science Ships can pick up better defensive engineering abilities.
Oh well, those are my thoughts - I look forward to reading your replies.
- SC
PS - IMHO If the cruiser fans want to complain that escorts shouldn't be tougher because cruisers are the tanks, then they should actually tank instead of playing DPS while the escorts take all the heat. When was the last time you saw multiple Klingons alpha-strike a cruiser in a group that contained an escort? As it is now the escorts are tanking for the cruisers and science ships by giving the Kligons a better (easier to kill) target.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
If yes: You have very valid points.
If no: You have somewhat valid points.
You really need to see it from both angles.
I am only just Tier 2 Klingon, no PvP yet. In Tier 1 it was 50/50 always: I lost or I won, that was it. I tried PvP from both sides in Tier 1 and realised we were well balanced.
Tier 2 I don't know, but I do know that unless someone has tried both sides, they are only somewhat knowledgable at best.
I found a good set for officers was
LT Tactical with 1x HYT and Rapid Fire
Ensign Engineer with EPtS
Ensign Science with Jam Sensors or Tractor Beam
Ensign Tactical With whatever suits your play style.
Remeber to never stop moving (I try to stay at max speed) and re balance your shields as appropriate.
If you were talking about T3+ I would agree with you as it sucks playing escort there.
I do agree that BoP's should not have access to RSP at T2 though.
That. That right there is your mistake. You do not try and turn round. While you're waiting for the Klingons to decloak you have your engines at full power. As soon as that first enemy spot shows up on your sensors or that first sound of a cloaking device touches your ears you pound evasive like your life depends on it (it kind of does). You have a modicum of leeway if there's other escorts but if you're the only one you run.
At that point the initial alpha likely misses or if not does only medium damage. The Klingons suddenly find their target not only lived but is currently utterly out of weapon range entirely. Hopefully your friends and ally's now focus fire one or two down.
If you find yourself as the only escort. You mission is no longer damage. It is survival. You are bait.
I can take on a same level or +1-2 NPC Battleship and slip away licking my wounds on the worst case scenario.
Going up against a same level BOP. I am lucky if I don't die in less then 30 seconds.
Not to mention the group Alpha strikes as mentioned where we Escorts stand pretty much no chance.
I have at least three different occasions today where I was 1v1 with a BOP and I managed to tear him/her up but but at least two cloaked before I could get the killing shot.
As mentioned the Klingon's of Star Trek Canon have honor to die fighting the in STO PVP the Klingons I have come across (not all but some) are honor less waste of DNA.
Stand and fight and die like a honorable warrior you think you want to be.
The time it took for 4-5 Klingon ships to kill one Fed ship of any class was far less then it took for 3-4 Fed ships to take down a single BOP or higher class. This was all in T2 PVP.
In one match a Klingon player racked up over 200k in points, yet none of the Fed players got above 30K and we out numbered them 2 to 1 almost.
I don't know what he had, but I had Mk4 Rare Dual Beams and a Mk4 Uncommon Quantum launcher. With my 4 Engineering "Saves" (EPtS, Reverse Polarity, Rotate Frequency, and even a Shield Battery), I literally won with 2% hull.
Raptors are supposed to be the equivalent to the Escort with weak hull and shields, but greater firepower. So honestly, that was pretty bad that I won by such a narry margin.
And BoPs, the QulDun (Tier 2 BoP) has 3 forward weapon slots. Which is 1 more than the Federation Cruiser and Science Ships, and a turn rate of 22. Which even puts it superior to that of the Federation Escort. So all a Klingon has to do is load up with Heavy Dual Canons and just blast through Federation shields like a hot knife through butter.
Then factor in groups of BoPs, which quickly go through Federation defenses. Not even Engineering Reverse Polarity or Science Feedback Pulse is a deterant.
In all honestly Cryptic, if ships need manuverability, it's because they are undergunned. And I'm pretty sure Klingons are going to get really ****ed at this, but really BoPs need one less forward weapon slot.
The other solution is make Heavy Cannons too power hungry to be really useful, and resorting to other weapons to compensate. (Really, a BoP shouldn't be stronger than a Battlecruiser. Else, the IKS wouldn't construct them).
2+ torpedos against shieldless hull = dead klingon.
Also, players are smart. You do the most burst damage, you're going to be called primary. I would suggest coordinated teams where the science vessels and cruisers have you targetted and are prepared to hit you with Science and Engineering teams as soon as you come under fire. You might also get Emergency Power to Engines, and as soon as you come under fire, punch it - get out of range, and then sweep back in and follow the above mentioned suggestion involving torpedos and klingon tailpipes.
You do make a good point, the Klingons have a distinct advantage with their ability to cloak. This is canon. If you recall the episode of TNG with the alternate reality where the Klingons didn't make peace with the Federation, the Federation was getting annhiliated.
That shouldn't be any kind of model for how KvF PVP works in a game, GTFO.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tongue-in-cheek
This is "humor". Humor, this is someone on the internet.
If you two haven't met you should become acquainted.
Their advantage is that they don't need to have any sort of coordination or heavy-tactics to succeed because their ships are all enormous glass cannons that dwarf damage output of the federation ships. Whereas the Federation players need to work together and use some pretty heavy strategy to beat them.
The Klingons, as it currently sits, need to focus on really only one thing: Doing as much damage as possible in as little time as possible and getting the hell out of dodge when they're done.
This will not work for the federation. Should that be changed? EH! It's not horribly unbalanced assuming you can get a coordinated team together. The more important question is whether the likelihood of having a coordinated team is enough to warrant leaving it. Does the group-pvp queue actually work now where fleetmembers could work together and create effective teams that could actually join a queue together and have a shot in hell of ending up in the same pvp instance? If not, then yes, they should do something to balance it -- or just fix the grouping mechanic.
get polarize hull
Klingons does the following:
* Cloak group up and hides.
Federation does the following:
Groups up and starts to search for the Klingons, the Klingons are hiding and cant be found.
That leaves federation with two two options in searching.
Search while going slow in a group this takes ages so
Federation goes to full impulse and starts searching....
So Klingons hides and wait at some point some federation ship will be in range and gets nuked down.
Then the federation ships hits full impulse to get to the combat area, arriving with no power to anything and gets killed.
So now in a worse case federation tries to get back into the fight and arrives on at the time at low power and gets killed....
Or Federation tries to group up after dying and get fly slow with power up to the fight...
Klingons cloak and moves abit and wait for a federation ship to be semi alone and nukes it down.
And that pattern repeats over and over.
So the way to counter that is for the federation create the federation ball, move slow in a group; Now for arguments sake lets pretend they federation manages to hold their calm and move slow in a group. They have a chance!
Then one federation ship gets nuked and the fight is on, but this time federation is ofcourse outnumbered by one.
So basiclly federation needs to learn to get organized, and get the proper skills so that there is a chance to outheal/protect vs an alpha strike; else resistance is futile
"Idiot players lose at PvP" - is that news?
1) You will NOT find Klingons by looking for them. I have no idea why Fed vessels are scouring the map - if you head straight for us, we fly away. Klingons will find you (although sometimes it takes a lot longer than you'd expect with height/speed problems, we also need to find the other klingons and there's a fairly short visual range).
2) There is no point in going full impulse to anywhere - in all likelihood the Klingons are already right next to him, and the map doesn't really have any useful features... where is he going? what does he hope to find there? A pot of gold with a leprechaun guarding it? Inquiring minds need to know!!
The first rule of space/ground PvP is 'get in a group, stay in a group. If/when you respawn, get back in a group'. True for Klingon and Federation players alike. If you violate that rule, then you're on your own.
It's really not complicated - and the skills required in T2 are not massive. Until there's a klingon cruiser in T2 you really shouldn't be having problems unless you face a fleet team.
As someone pointed out in a different thread:
"Open beta was a disaster for Klingons in T2, without a cruiser we lost nearly every T2 arena. The only thing to change between open beta and now, is you..."
[although the stupid PvP queue is different, and is absolutely wrecking a large percentage of PvP in T2 - to the exclusive detriment of the Federation team, but that has nothing to do with 'omg cloak' or 'bops from hell' or whatever]
You do make a good point, the Klingons have a distinct advantage with their ability to cloak. This is canon. If you recall the episode of TNG with the alternate reality where the Klingons didn't make peace with the Federation, the Federation was getting annhiliated.[/QUOTE]
Those were K'vort Class Battle Cruisers, not "Bird's of Prey".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNEJ65N178A&feature=related
Picard mentions this at about the 6:10 mark. Battle Cruisers...Plus, the Enterprise was in "tank" mode really, just sorta sitting there drawing fire and protecting the C...
An organized klingon team will always destroy unorganized feds, and the reverse is true, and in my opinion from what i've seen it also seems balanced when it comes to organized team vs organized team.
Actually, I was referring to the condition of the war in general - he pulled the captain of the ship aside to inform them that he normally would not allow them to go back, but the fact of the matter is the Federation was getting it's butt proverbially kicked.
(Stolen from Memory Alpha. So you can have a direct quote.)
Man, some people don't know an offhand moment of humor when they see one, huh?
*all the klingons are flying escorts. if they can rapidly destroy the fed ships they are dandy. but they can fall extremely rapidly in turn, they don't have any staying power.
*half of the feds are mounting MKk III (or worse) gear.. most klingons will be mounting Mk IV. problems are obvious.
*fed inexperience - as time goes on, your average klingon is far more likely than your average fed to know what they are doing in PVP. it only takes one or two newbs on a team to wreck your chances.
Experience is by far the key. In OB I can tell both sides were inexperienced. In headstart, I can tell MOST feds are inexperience and most Klingons played in OB/CB and PVPed. There are exceptions.
What I don't see Feds doing (HEALING).
1. Engineering team BO ability (Level 1)
2. Hazard Emitters BO ability (Level 1)
My BOP is out healing some Fed damage, and I don't have any boost to healing.
Big mistake I see feds do:
Sensor jam on the attack. It is a defensive device not an offensive one. If you use jam, reverse directions immediatly. if you keep your same course as most do, I just estimate your path and when you come out of jam blast you since you did not change to evade. Use it when I come behind you. Jam me, and evade.
This is why I don't PvP anymore, its fine if you have a static group on vent and you co-ordinate every move, every sign of enemy contact and co-ordinate attacks/stuns/roots/Mes/etc to maximum effect, but in a 'random' group where you can't voice chat or form incredibly fast tactics and strategies on the fly, you have no chance in PvP especially against veteran PvPers or worse, an opposing foe that is purely built for PvP and the Klingons are essentially just that.
Do the klinks need nerfs? Wholehearted yes they do, hopefully soon before the PvP whine crowd arrives.
Another issue is that people PvP with essentially PvE gear on.....thats another big mistake. If the feds queue up for PvP, make sure you have some BO that have highly useful PvP abilities such as detecting cloaks etc...
I wholeheartedly disagree on this one for t1 and t2 Haven't played enough t3 to answer.
In t1 Feds have better ground gear, Klingons have better space gear. That is a gear issue, not a nerf.
In t2 Feds have cruisers Klingons don't That is a fed advantage. If the fed cruisers actaully took engineering teams and hazard emitters and sat in a group with all cruisers targeting the escorts ready to heal them, and science ships ready to extend shields, then the fed escorts would survive the alpha.
The problem is not mismatch ships, it is tactics. Klingons learned this in OB as we died LOTS of times.
Assist the escorts and let them chose the target to hit. If the fed cruisers are targeting the fed escorts, just assist their target. Keep an eye on your team and heal as needed. Organized or not, if everyone followed basic team tactics they will do much better.
When the feds heal each other and fight as a team, usually they roll over the Klingons. Right now Feds are not organized. That happend to Klingons in Beta.
Ive sat in games with no grouping. All I have to do is watch what my target is targeting and if they need help, throw a hazard emitter or engineering team to heal. Fed dies and player who is on my side but not my team lives.
Vs a organized group of fed players, there is almost no chance at winning. I have seen 3 BOP pounding on an escort and with good teamwork he lives through everything thrown at him. I have seen 5 BOP pounding on a engy piloted cruiser and they cannot drop him in the 20 seconds it takes his team to FI to him.
You cannot balance stupid. If cryptic balances pvp around people flying into pvp with pve gear, or make it so the dumbest fed players can run around ungrouped and win vs a coordinated klingon team they will break PVP and see a lot of players leave. We got decimated in T2 pvp until we learned the necessary skills. This involved a LOT of dying, now it's your turn. Don't think you can run into a gunfight with a baseball bad and do good. Use the right equipment for the job.
To people whining about dps from klingons, next time you actually make an attempt to win look at the damage. I've put out 180k damage before and dropped 4 ships, counting my team we put out 250k and dropped 6-7 ships total. The entire fed team put out 100k and killed 15 ships. I realize that you guys are looking at that 180k and comparing it to your 30k it seems overpowered, but remember that it took 180k to drop 4 ships. Your team's 100k won the match.
Cloaking breaks PvP in a way that can't readily be addressed. Canon is one thing, but the practical reality of creating a balanced PvP environment has to come first. Either nerf cloaking (likely) or give the Feds something with which to compensate.
Yes it is the only thing that matters, and in a coordinated encounter on both sides, the Feds are actually at a very slight advantage on most tiers.
Feds have abilities to compensate. There are skills that will find Cloaked ships and reveal them. Firing on ships with torpedos as they are cloaking will rock a ship. (Two HYT's to a cloaking T2 BoP will kill it just about every time).
The fact that people don't fully understand this as of yet doesn't mean the system is broken, it means that the people aren't yet skilled. You can't expect to pick up a game and be on par with people who have been playing it for a while and learning to work together. You have unrealistic expectations if you think you should be able to.
As someone who played Klingon for a good amount of time in OB, I can tell you hands down that the reason that the Klingons are beating us right now is because they spent the time, took the lumps, and for two weeks got their butts handed to them nearly endlessly for many hours until they figured out what they were doing wrong.
Times are changing. With the Retail Launch coming in you're going to find some Klingon pugs as someone mentioned, and you're going to see the marked difference in your ability to kick them around.
In my time as playing a Klingon I got incredibly frustrated in the PvP because all we did was lose. I haven't started PvPing as a Feddie since I switched back to them (I played Feddie in CB and Klingie in OB), but I can tell you from looking down the barrel of the phaser ball - the Fed ships are not underpowered in comparison.
They do, however, require skilled, team-oriented pilots.
Coordination is the key to PVP period doesn't matter what side your playing. The side that works together best will win. Even if they are out numbered. I played both ground and space now ground a smaller number on one side is a bit more valid to win due to cover and other tactics. But even in space a well coordinated group will beat greater numbers. Now in tier 1 when folks are just starting out to learn to play PVP the feds pretty much suck. They have no coordination for the most part and the Klingons know they have to coordinate to win.
There is only one thing I will agree with in your post and that is auto grouping for PVP should be in period.
Polarize Hull.
Escorts do it to me as a klingon too......also switching power to engines with some extra in shield power...and hitting evasive manuevers will let you squirm out nine times in ten too...
:cool:
Incorrect. All tiers. Its that most feds don't want to 'do it right' you really need balance as a fed team.
More than two of any one ship is one too many. 2 escorts 2 sci one cruiser, 2 sci 2 cruisers one escort.
2 escorts 2 cruisers 1 sci.
Each has a different dynamic to it. But has very few weaknesses. The first is a high dps high risk set up where the sci guys REALLY need to pay attention to the escorts.. The second is a classic ball with the escort being the guy that is the bait with the other four focusing on him to keep him alive and keep the ball in overlapping fields of fire to win... The last is the least tenable unless the cruisers assist on the Escort coverage for the pounding they'll take...
Protect your weak link...play to your strengths...
This is so going in my sig.
You suck if your T1 was 50/50. Klings are OP in t1. I am almost to t3 as a kling now.
Dear Fed who just hit t2 and now he wants to PVP.
YOU ARE GOING TO GET FING KILLED!!!! Do you realize there is nothing else to do as a klingon (other than kahless to level 16.) So we get good at it. You cannot come in on your first match with no organization, no teamwork, no heal skills, and only pve experience and expect to win!!!
I am one of those BoP pilots that loves to Battlecloak just to hear the screams of rage from the Fed players, and I have a few comments.
First: If you're a target of a Klink alpha strike, you won't survive without teammates healing you or unless you have a defensive ability like RSP or popping an evasive burst. I can flip that argument, and also point out if you're a single Klink in the middle of a Fedball that is focusing fire, you are equally dead just as quickly.
Second: This is a team game. You can't think of this as a solo game where your given ship class can beat every other ship class every time. Heals, buffs, debuffs...they're all important. In T2, the Feds have such a huge potential advantage in this that they could dominate the tier (like they did in beta) if they really wanted to. But doing this properly is my third point....
Third: This game is about skill. Very much about skill. Now it's true that as a BoP I usually consider Fed escorts to be a tasty snack...however I've flown against plenty of GOOD escort pilots who know how to fly their ships and who can tear me into pieces if I'm not careful. It's the same with cruisers and sci ships. It's very apparent to me which fed pilots know what they're doing, and which ones are spamming spacebar and not using effective BO abilities.
Fourth: Having Klinks run and cloak is what you want as a Fed. You want them forced out of combat...even temporarily...in order to focus down the remaining Klinks. If I get pushed off and battlecloak to escape, I'm now doing ZERO DPS for my team. The pursuing Feds won't get the kill against me, but they will immediately be able to push spacebar again and continue DPS against the remaining Klinks. If I turn around and engage again, the cooldown on battlecloak will leave me exposed (and very killable) for the next 20 seconds. And 20 seconds in a BoP is a lifetime. Forcing that Klink to run is a temporary mission kill...sure you don't get the epeen rush of an explosion...and sure it doesn't directly show up on the scoreboard...but you've neutralized that Klink. He's gone. He's not kllling anyone on your team. And he's left you to be able to more effectively focus fire on his teammates. He's just made it easier for you to do your job and get focus fire on the other ships. Remember...PvP is ultimately about effective dps and dps mitigation, and cloaked ships do zero dps.