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Forums > Home› Feedback› Feature Episodes, Events and PvE Content

Cryptic, Ground Combat Horrible, Boring, Pointless & AFKable To Me Video

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited February 2010 in Feature Episodes, Events and PvE Content
Honestly Cryptic,

You seriously need to fix up and put things back the way they were pre patch, even for ground combat... Now i don't even need to do anything in away missions as my BO are unstoppable...

I would never of dreamt about this prepatch as without my help they would die and i would have to respawn which sometimes (rarely) could be far away but not anymore...Though that doesn't matter anyway as i would respawn full health which is another example of why a death penalty is needed... It also makes nearly all drops pointless, why bother with hypo sprays, sheild recharges and power cells as you don't need them anyway plus its quicker to die and respawn fully healed!!!!

Please watch this video of me doing your missions whilst sitting down playing Bayonetta on my Xbox and merely just moving rooms when necessary...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlM89Fn-Tc0

Is this your idea of fun? Watch near the end when the Swordmaster is struggling to kill me with about 12 hits and im not fighting back at any point (so much of one shot kills)

Do you the developers actually play this game???? Can you not see what you did to the game and can you not see the amount of people who want the game made harder again, let link you to the sample... And by harder maybe not pre patch but at least 50% more than now, seriously we have one advantage the AI can never have, we cna think for ourselves instead of follow a script so let them cheat and let me Learn, TRIBBLE the carebears, they will leave after a month or two from boredom anyway, or when the next fashion MMO comes and you will just have an STO champions...

http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=88399

to the potential whinners out there and carebears... (Lena & NightmareGoddessLindsey) come to mind... All my BO have MK1 weapons, MK1 sheilds and no points spent on their ground skills...
This isn't just an early game problem before you say i haven't passed Lt yet, i was happilly doing the samething at Lvl 24 agaisnt romulans....
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    can't watch the video at work but, and I'm a firm proponent of getting difficulty back to start of open beta for space combat (I don't even call it space combat as it is now, it's just space swatting), but I don't find it that easy in ground combat. Sure, one group never kills me, but I do die sometimes when I aggro two groups (in those missions with patrol groups). But even then, I don't think my group can kill a mob group without my help. I'll test that next time I play.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I agree, the difficulty needs to be ramped up, greatly. Im still hoping Cryptic will come to their senses and put it back at the pre-open level.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    It's a total Joke as we both agree mark, I just think these people who play the game " care bears " if you will who find everything so amazingly difficult either have to be playing the game totally wrong or just have no form of motor functions the fact that they have made it get to the point where you can AFK win stuff it's just upsetting.

    End of the day the only people who lose out from this stuff are the ones that actually want this game to be good and remain strong for a long period of time.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Well DUH no wonder they could not kill you you have Shields. All " HARDCORE PLAYERS" need to Nerf them selfs to have fun , what you should have done was remove all armor,Shields, weapons , pants, shoes and blind fold your toon then hit your self with a hammer four times then play it.


    For those of you who can't tell that was sarcasm
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Space combat is nearly the same... but got that made me laugh.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Vasten wrote: »
    Well DUH no wonder they could not kill you you have Shields. All " HARDCORE PLAYERS" need to Nerf them selfs to have fun , what you should have done was remove all armor,Shields, weapons , pants, shoes and blind fold your toon then hit your self with a hammer four times then play it.


    For those of you who can't tell that was sarcasm

    No it was'nt you would'nt know what sarcasm was if it jumped and bit you :rolleyes:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Here is the thing, do you want an away team that works well, or just harder opponents. My gripes during beta were about poor away team operation as they were not engaging targets as well as constantly getting hung up on terrain.

    If your team is working as it should they will be effective regardless of the difficulty of the opponents.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Ceilican wrote: »
    Here is the thing, do you want an away team that works well, or just harder opponents. My gripes during beta were about poor away team operation as they were not engaging targets as well as constantly getting hung up on terrain.

    If your team is working as it should they will be effective regardless of the difficulty of the opponents.

    the opponents need to be harder, the away team is fine but the enemies are too easy not tactics no skill they just rush in head strong.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I do feel that for the most part, the Combat is very easy. There are a couple of instances where you are fighting unique NPCs and they can be a little challenging, but still nothing that is just frustratingly hard. I really don't know how this can be fixed. An MMO has to be accesible, which means that even casual players need to be catered too. Perhaps they could introduce some sort of difficulty slider that would scale the game, at least for people who are in an instance by themsevles. It gets a little more tricky when you are teamed up with multiple people. I mean, what is easy for us can be very difficult for someone else. I dunno...I do know that my away team seems to be a bunch of super soldiers...and that I can't complain too much that they actually are effective, using their powers and shooting at the enemy and what not.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    otakuon wrote: »
    I do feel that for the most part, the Combat is very easy. There are a couple of instances where you are fighting unique NPCs and they can be a little challenging, but still nothing that is just frustratingly hard. I really don't know how this can be fixed. An MMO has to be accesible, which means that even casual players need to be catered too. Perhaps they could introduce some sort of difficulty slider that would scale the game, at least for people who are in an instance by themsevles. It gets a little more tricky when you are teamed up with multiple people. I mean, what is easy for us can be very difficult for someone else. I dunno...I do know that my away team seems to be a bunch of super soldiers...and that I can't complain too much that they actually are effective, using their powers and shooting at the enemy and what not.

    how can you class something as hard for someone else when what i was doing did not contribute to the success of the mission? I'm using the BO you start with and doing nothing but letter the BO's fight themselves, so this would be the same amount of easy for anyone as its basically autopilot, hell this brought autofire back i could even contribute doing nothing...

    the mission with the udine was even more of a joke, when hitting me it did less damage then the swordmaster...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    RedManMark wrote:
    how can you class something as hard for someone else when what i was doing did not contribute to the success of the mission? I'm using the BO you start with and doing nothing but letter the BO's fight themselves, so this would be the same amount of easy for anyone as its basically autopilot, hell this brought autofire back i could even contribute doing nothing...

    the mission with the udine was even more of a joke, when hitting me it did less damage then the swordmaster...

    Yes, I can see that...but there are still quite a few people out there who feel that Combat is HARD...I don't really know what they are doing wrong, other than perhpas leaving their BO's behind and chraging into combat by themselves. I did this once on "Researcher Rescue", where the game glitched and I beamed down to the Gorn planet without my away team. I tried to play it that way, but usually got killed by each of the mobs since they just surrounded me and started wailing on me. Perhaps part of the problem is that BO powers recharge too quickly. It seems to me that my Sci and Eng officers are constanly spamming health and shields on me and the rest of the team so I never have to worry about that. So maybe BO powers need to take longer to recharge (although, I have skilled up both of those powers extensivlely). Maybe the size of the mobs need to be increased....
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I've done whole missions without the bridge officers cause of the glitch in beta and it wasn't hard just took a little longer
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Hit commander today. For those wondering about the supposed difficulty hike it doesn't exist.

    On top of the fact you're, you know, immortal and breed like a tribble when you and you crew die.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    MooseOfWoe wrote: »
    Hit commander today. For those wondering about the supposed difficulty hike it doesn't exist.

    On top of the fact you're, you know, immortal and breed like a tribble when you and you crew die.

    I could of told you that from the beta, It's same old same old
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I find it pretty funny people are whining the Away Team AI is actually good. Cryptic cant win in this, if the AI was bad, people would be whining too about stupid BOs.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    CmdrNightfire wrote:
    I find it pretty funny people are whining the Away Team AI is actually good. Cryptic cant win in this, if the AI was bad, people would be whining too about stupid BOs.

    We aren't complaining that the team is good, We want the team to be good.

    We just want the AI to actually be able to win against us because at the moment, You can afk rank up
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Acidpunk wrote: »
    We aren't complaining that the team is good, We want the team to be good.

    We just want the AI to actually be able to win against us because at the moment, You can afk rank up

    how about every mob just 1 shots you would that be hard enough for you ? :rolleyes:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Spike.Firebrand wrote:
    how about every mob just 1 shots you would that be hard enough for you ? :rolleyes:

    If i could one shot them too then yes.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Spike.Firebrand wrote:
    how about every mob just 1 shots you would that be hard enough for you ? :rolleyes:

    If i could one shot you and shut you up then yes...

    Spike your only way of constructing an arguement is to take it to an extreme that nobody has asked for... You said about it being one shot hard...

    however we merely asked for more of a challenge and a bit harder, increasing it by 10% would still class as making it harder and satisfying us, though you always try to imply we ant it one sht impossible for the sake of your own pathetic trolling, your an idiot who lives in a fantasy world, go shag another troll, i can think of two who suit you fine, Lindsey or Lena...

    P.S. Still waitin for those videos form you of it ever being so hard, not to mention your facts being confirmed...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I've started just using me and one other BO, i tell the rest to stay behind. At least that way it's slightly more even.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Well, for the record, the enemies aren't always totally useless, even now. There are still a few groups out there that can hand the unprepared their asses.

    Problem #1, though, this was a "generic custom" race, not a hard canon race. I did in fact AFK my way to victory, to test out some claims Mark made earlier (hi Mark). These guys, however, had shield restore, sniper weapons AND deployable turrets, which made them an actual threat when a spawn had two lieutenants and a commander in it, along with four ensigns. I did in fact AFK my way to victory against Orions and Gorn (these were exploration missions for the record, so the enemies were even-con to my gang and they were generally a little harder than what you find in early episode missions) so canon races being easier than random generics feels... strange.

    Problem #2 is where I think the real "AFK your way to victory" issue lies: the lack of damage spikes. The generics were able to finish my party off because they had lots of guys with damage spikes that could actually threaten me. The Orions and Gorn didn't have that burst, and thus weren't a threat... which allowed my BO with the Medical Tricorder to cover everyone as it comes off of cooldown (and in the above screenshot, on Paryun my doc only has like two or three ranks in MT1).

    This stems from the general buff to HP that everything on the ground recieved in week two of the beta. The HP buffers got much, MUCH bigger, allowing for a much larger margin of error. This was a huge benefit to the game, actually... as it made ground PvP much more enjoyable, as it gave people time to react to ambushes and the like. The only knackered things with ground PvP at this point are the team DM kill goals and the spawn points; the across-the-board HP buff helped enjoyment on that front to a degree that cannot be overemphasized.

    However, that HP buff has also thrown PvE balance completely out of whack. Enemies that were once major threats can now be healed through trivially, as their damage wasn't increased to match the increased HP. This is what's leading to AFKing, as frankly the unguided AI is kind of atrocious at picking priority targets (this applies to the enemies, too; I'm surprised they didn't beeline for my doc much at all). The only thing allowing anyone's NPCs to be AFK-soloing-bots is the fact that the HP buffers they have now allow for an incredible amount of healing spam.

    There are a couple of ways to deal with this:

    -Generalized damage increase for enemy NPCs. Probably the best way to handle things; increase base damage from NPCs by, I don't know, 50%? Not high enough to make it absolutely absurd, but high enough to once again threaten someone even if they've got most of a group on them, even when being spammed with Medical Tricorder.

    -Bring HP back down. This is the one I don't like for the reasons I stated above; the generalized HP buff in beta had very beneficial effects to the game's competitive side that I'd like to preserve. It is an option, though.

    -Give more enemies more burst in general. This is another one I'd like to see. Very, very few enemies I've encountered seem to have anything really like "burst" damage; part of the reason for the above screenshot was the outright surprise at encountering three enemies with sniper shot or an equivalent. I'd really like to see more enemies in general pick up sniper shot-capable weapons or other "exploit" weapons; half the reason things are easy right now is that the damage is so slow and steady, and there's no risk of using that Medical Tricorder and then all of a sudden OH TRIBBLE SOANDSO NEEDS THAT MT RIGHT NOW BUT IT'S ON COOLDOWN OH GOD... more burst damage would help the game, I think.

    I still remain a little skeptical that this is a problem at the higher levels (and I intend to test it out for myself), but after being pretty dismissive I'll admit there's a bigger problem here than I originally realized and it should probably be addressed as soon as possible.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Azma wrote:
    I agree, the difficulty needs to be ramped up, greatly. Im still hoping Cryptic will come to their senses and put it back at the pre-open level.

    the problem here is the diversity of skill point investment. those who spend their points in groundcombot are bored by it - those who don´t because they preferr space combat can have problems even with the early missions especially when still running around in starter gear because of only dropping food to keep a planaet of tribbles healthy ;)
    did the quest shown in that vid yesterday tried it the same way... my away team died against the klingons in room 1...

    so balancing in this game with its billion skill options is quite hard.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    What the OP did, I hope everyone noticed, was let his BOffs draw all the agro away from him and, since he stood there doing nothing while his 4 BOffs killed 3 Klingons, he was untouched. It was also one of the first easy missions you get at Lt level and, sorry OP, but those BOffs had what look like Mk2 phaser rifles and disruptors not the standard mk0 hand phasers. :confused:

    When I fight, I draw agro. I do this by setting up defences and shooting the biggest, nastiest beggars in the mob. This makes killing things difficult as I get upwards of 7 or so Klingons trying to kill me, and me specifically. I end up on my backside a lot as two officers and a Blademaster charge me with bat'leths and/or twin pistols while their friends snipe at me from a distance. This allows my BOffs/Team-mates to fight unmolested. That and the turrets/shields I set up beforehand keep me alive. :rolleyes:

    I think, if you want the game to be easy, be like the OP and cower. Your BOffs are deliberately over-powered so that four of them in an Away Team can take on 60+ enemies, so you can hide behind them should you wish. I'm not that kind of Captain. :p
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    foxfax wrote: »
    What the OP did, I hope everyone noticed, was let his BOffs draw all the agro away from him and, since he stood there doing nothing while his 4 BOffs killed 3 Klingons, he was untouched. It was also one of the first easy missions you get at Lt level and, sorry OP, but those BOffs had what look like Mk2 phaser rifles and disruptors not the standard mk0 hand phasers. :confused:

    When I fight, I draw agro. I do this by setting up defences and shooting the biggest, nastiest beggars in the mob. This makes killing things difficult as I get upwards of 7 or so Klingons trying to kill me, and me specifically. I end up on my backside a lot as two officers and a Blademaster charge me with bat'leths and/or twin pistols while their friends snipe at me from a distance. This allows my BOffs/Team-mates to fight unmolested. That and the turrets/shields I set up beforehand keep me alive. :rolleyes:

    I think, if you want the game to be easy, be like the OP and cower. Your BOffs are deliberately over-powered so that four of them in an Away Team can take on 60+ enemies, so you can hide behind them should you wish. I'm not that kind of Captain. :p

    Way to miss the point, I've solo'd quite a few missions these past few days and doing them solo i've not died one single time now that's not trying to sound " ELITE " as some would put it but there is a problem here a big one and it doesn't just end with ground combat.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    What I notice with these threads is a lot of people ask for it to be "harder" without really specifying what that means. Do you want more NPCs attacking you? For them to hit you a lot harder (essentially give them better weapons that you have available at that level)? For them to use more special attacks? For them to be more coordinated and focus fire attack?

    I too think that video was stacked a bit with quite well armed away team members. Its also true that NPCs have aggro tables and will not attack you if you aren't doing anything. If you participate it seems that NPCs always prefer attacking you when you are hitting them (possibly a higher aggro from player controlled characters?) This places your own character at risk and requires you to coordinate your away teams efforts better.

    In my view the best way to improve ground combat is to first make the pathing better (my BO's can't find their way around a bulkhead to save their lives) then make fights faster by increasing weapon damage a little and reducing base shield mitigation. This would probably make it a little "harder" but mostly I just feel that a phaser fight shouldn't last so long.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    scifiguy wrote: »
    What I notice with these threads is a lot of people ask for it to be "harder" without really specifying what that means. Do you want more NPCs attacking you? For them to hit you a lot harder (essentially give them better weapons that you have available at that level)? For them to use more special attacks? For them to be more coordinated and focus fire attack?

    I too think that video was stacked a bit with quite well armed away team members. Its also true that NPCs have aggro tables and will not attack you if you aren't doing anything. If you participate it seems that NPCs always prefer attacking you when you are hitting them (possibly a higher aggro from player controlled characters?) This places your own character at risk and requires you to coordinate your away teams efforts better.

    In my view the best way to improve ground combat is to first make the pathing better (my BO's can't find their way around a bulkhead to save their lives) then make fights faster by increasing weapon damage a little and reducing base shield mitigation. This would probably make it a little "harder" but mostly I just feel that a phaser fight shouldn't last so long.

    I've specified plenty of times on other subjects but on this one it's simple

    Make the fights shorter, More damage less life. I don't want the away team to get worse but I think being able to take 13 hits from a sword master is too much.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    for my part i dont want it to be harder, i just whish that my away team doesnt get stuck in stairways or someplace else and is right next to me so that i dont have to wait endless for them to finish theit cuppa tea:-)

    The other day my tactical officer got stuck in a ditch on some planet. While we were fighting of the mean Klingons, she was trying to get out of there. Was funny to see her running up the stairs and then going back to her previous spot...

    If u are used to play that other huge mmo (cant remeber the name though) aggro management in this one is a bit tricky. I constantly had the problem that even if i waited couple of seconds before phasering a Blademaster, the moment i slowly open fire, he routs directly towards me...But me thinks that after a while they will resolve some of these issues, because apparently Rome wasnt build in a day either :-)
    Have fun
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Some of the ground combat is a bit easy. And since you can always just respawn and keep picking away, you will eventually win no matter what. Perhaps a timer or something to put some level of pressure on the player. Right now, there really is no bad side to death other than a time sink. I can't believe I would ever argue that the death penalty in a game felt too light.. but there it is.. Not only is it too light, but any mission can be done with enough time and patience.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    foxfax wrote: »
    What the OP did, I hope everyone noticed, was let his BOffs draw all the agro away from him and, since he stood there doing nothing while his 4 BOffs killed 3 Klingons, he was untouched. It was also one of the first easy missions you get at Lt level and, sorry OP, but those BOffs had what look like Mk2 phaser rifles and disruptors not the standard mk0 hand phasers. :confused:

    When I fight, I draw agro. I do this by setting up defences and shooting the biggest, nastiest beggars in the mob. This makes killing things difficult as I get upwards of 7 or so Klingons trying to kill me, and me specifically. I end up on my backside a lot as two officers and a Blademaster charge me with bat'leths and/or twin pistols while their friends snipe at me from a distance. This allows my BOffs/Team-mates to fight unmolested. That and the turrets/shields I set up beforehand keep me alive. :rolleyes:

    I think, if you want the game to be easy, be like the OP and cower. Your BOffs are deliberately over-powered so that four of them in an Away Team can take on 60+ enemies, so you can hide behind them should you wish. I'm not that kind of Captain. :p

    they are mark 1 weapons you get from doing the diplomatic orders missions... also ive spent nothing on my away team skills as i think its wasted points at the moment... finaly ill be lt commander today and i will post a video doing the samething at lt commander and anywya my point is i didnt need to do anything as it plays out itself, with or without my help...

    prpatch i never would of doen this as my away team would just die, ia lready stated i happily did this on romulan missions later on in the game, but obviously with the charater reset takes time to get there again and doesn't make my point any less valid...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Is there a way for you to send that video in with a trouble ticket?
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