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Cruiser Loadouts, Strategy, and Skills, Discuss!
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Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
So I've been trying to think about how to effectively loadout a cruiser keeping in mind the terrible turn rates when we pick up the galaxy class down the road. With that in mind I've been using the following setup on my excalibur class:
1x Plasma Beam Array MK IV
3x Phaser Beam Array MK III
2x EPS Console MK III
Tactical - Beam Overload
Engineering - Emergency Power to Shields, Emergency Power to Weapons, & Reverse Shield Polarity
Science - Science Team
With this setup I came in #2 in dmg at the Pi Canis Fleet Engagement (coming in late) and have an amazing amount of survivability when combined with rotate shield frequency.
The beams can fire at near 100 power during combat and I can change from full power to shields or weapons very quickly with the EPS consoles.
The only ability I find a tad underwhelming for now is Beam Overload since it drops my DMG to nothing temporarily for a single large hit. I'm still not quite sure how this power works yet but don't have a better choice that I can think of for now.
I plan to upgrade to complete plasma beam MK IVs and am curious to see if I can still sustain constant broadsides with the more powerful beams.
What do you guys think of this setup? Please discuss and compare with your setups.
1x Plasma Beam Array MK IV
3x Phaser Beam Array MK III
2x EPS Console MK III
Tactical - Beam Overload
Engineering - Emergency Power to Shields, Emergency Power to Weapons, & Reverse Shield Polarity
Science - Science Team
With this setup I came in #2 in dmg at the Pi Canis Fleet Engagement (coming in late) and have an amazing amount of survivability when combined with rotate shield frequency.
The beams can fire at near 100 power during combat and I can change from full power to shields or weapons very quickly with the EPS consoles.
The only ability I find a tad underwhelming for now is Beam Overload since it drops my DMG to nothing temporarily for a single large hit. I'm still not quite sure how this power works yet but don't have a better choice that I can think of for now.
I plan to upgrade to complete plasma beam MK IVs and am curious to see if I can still sustain constant broadsides with the more powerful beams.
What do you guys think of this setup? Please discuss and compare with your setups.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Second, use weapon batteries after using Beam Overload. Granted, this only works every five minutes, but in those instances when you have to have some oomph...
I won't pretend to be the greatest mathematician ever, but I thought 7.5 x 2 was equal to 15.
It could be that the more you install, the more you get diminishing returns.
Oh well....that's why you need tactics, right? Because as hard as I search the UI I and power trees I can find no power labeled "Kirk: Instawin". But I'm still looking....
Okay, so I probably added no value to the discussion.
At least I'm here for you guys.
Okay...now I gotta go before I get all misty eyed thinking about the good ol' days in CB and OB.....
The formula for the actual resists is: 1 - (1/(1 + raw_resist_total)). So it isn't the more you install, just the more resists you have, be it from gear or a buff.
15% from gear will get you 1 - (1/1.15) = 1.0 - 0.87 = 13%.
Personally, in the low tiers, Tactical Team is my tactical power of choice. Adds +18 to beam weapons (technically, 18 to energy and projectile weapons), 30s duration, 45s cooldown, so you'll average about +12. I'd say for the lower levels, it is the second best tactical power, behind Torpedo: High Yield.
It does share a cooldown with other teams, science for you, engineering for me and so eventually you grow out of it if you wind up using two of either of those. But for the early levels, it is nice.
I'm going to pretend I understood that formula and the purpose of using it instead of the much simpler percentile addition. You know, like:
( 1 x (1 + 0.075 + 0.075) ); simplified to ( 1 x ( 1.15) ) and then resulting in 1.15
I mean, why does 15% not have to be equal to 15%, and be equal to 13% instead?
I wonder if this also applies to RCS thrusters. I had been contemplating installing 4 RCS consoles that would provide a +30% turn bonus on my Tier 5 cruiser.
Considering a turn rate of 6, adding a 120% to turn ought to make the total turn rate be equal to 13.2
Add in the 18% from Starship Command and the 52% for, say, Assault Cruiser being maxed... and that additional 70% to have that climb to a 210% bonus; that'd be a turn rate of 18.6
Then again, I'm disregarding the impulse drives. They give a turn rate bonus (the highest I've seen so far is 8). However, that brings along the questions such as: is the impulse turn bonus applied to the base turn rate, and then augmented by the percentile bonuses; does it apply before percentile bonuses, or after; and is it actually a percentile bonus value instead of a raw turn bonus?
Considering the best case scenario... this could allow an Assault Cruiser with 4 RCS consoles (+30% turn each), a +8 turn impulse drive and maxed ship command skills a total turn rate of 43.4
...
That sounds too high to be true.
Is "tactical team" the same as tactical team leader, one of the first skills you can get.
For two reasons.
1. Going from 0% to 1% is a 1% decrease in damage. Going from 50% to 51% is a 2% decrease in damage. From 75% to 76% a 4% decrease. And from 98% to 99% a 50% decrease in damage taken. Without DR, each point of resists is more powerful than the one before it, which means resists would have increasing returns.
2. Because it is easy to hit 100%. An example case: Getting 20% resists from gear is pretty easy. Polarize Hull I can reach 80%+ energy resists. Combine the two and you've got 100% resistance to certain energy damage types, for 15s out of every 30, 15 out of every 20 with two of them. Which, with the simple formula, would make you immune to said damage types.
#2 is key. Lots of buffs that provide resistance increases. Engineering Crew III gives me almost 40% resists for 30s, with a 45s cooldown. I can alternate two of them and have about 80% resist all 15s out of every ~23s. So either those buffs would have to not stack and/or be severely reduced in power. Possibly a cap.
Basically, a lesson the devs learned in City of Heroes and therefore applied this solution to in CO.
Unlikely. #1 isn't an issue with turn rates. #2 might be, if the devs don't want us to exceed a certain multiplier, but I doubt they would, wouldn't be as much of an issue as it would be with resists. Plus, from a code standpoint, it'd be easier for them to make only one work than write up another DR formula and have to have it explained to people.
They don't give you an 8 bonus. I believe they have a percent increase they provide. The number shown just happens to be your base rate modified by your turn rate modifiers.
You won't get that high. Only 3 captain skills apply, for example. And I don't think they provide a 52% bonus each
Regarding the torp and opening salvo, I imagine I'll be adding a front and rear launcher for the galaxy class to allow for targets of opportunity with shields down. After all, with 4 forward and 4 rear weapon slots I can't imagine going 8 beams although I will definately try for fun!
I'm very positive that the Exploration Cruiser skill grants +52 once you have 9 ranks of it. Tier 5 cruisers that follow up are the same too.
The way Al Riviera explained skills, the +18 of Starship Captain and the +52 of, say, Assault Cruiser should stack if they are percentile value... just like Beam weapons and Phasers are supposed to. And apparently, those pluses are supposed to be in percentile bonus values.
Pointing out that the Impulse Drive examined would show the ship's actual turning rate with it installed, instead of showing a bonus, is an interesting observation. I'll give it a look later once I log back ingame. If that's the case, my Miranda should have at least 11 (and if +18 from Starship Captain is truly a percentile value, then it should be 12.98, or 12.9, or 13).
You are limited there though to 3 skills, since Heavy Cruiser, Exploration Cruiser, Assault Cruiser and Star Cruiser Captain do not stack with each other.
Also, the skill itself says slight improvement. I'm inclined to believe that, that these are not a percentile bonus. Cannot really see Heavy Cruiser Captain, for example, boosting hull strength by 52%.
I'll have to make an alt after the server is back up and see how much change to hull dumping the first 300 xp into Starship Command makes. Hmm...actually, think I'll just save up 900 and max the skill all at once. See what that changes.
If only we were provided useful information, instead of having to figure it out ourselves
Just keep in mind that you can outgrow tactical team if you want to use other team powers. I'm in my heavy cruiser now, alternating Engineering Crew II and III. And that means cannot fit Tactical Team in there. But it served me well through 2 tiers.
As to going with 8 beams, not really that rough. Trick is to have as many single beam arrays as you can support broadside and then, with any other slots, start putting a dual beam array in the front. So if you can support a 5 beam broadside, then you put 3 duals in the front and fill the other 5 spots with single beam arrays.
Viewing ingame hull status has always been somewhat glitchy (more often then not I get default values and shield values of -1/1 or something), and I admit I'm saying the number from memory so I could be wrong... but I do rememvber observing how "it shouldn't be like that at all if that's supposed to be a percentile bonus".
Devs say they're going to give Beam Overload and Fire at Will a pass over with the buff-wand, so both of those skills might be back on the table for you, in a realistic build.
My vague feelings on my t4 weapon load out being
Fore
1 torp (quantum or transphasic, currently i'm not sure and it depends on the laters exact qualities)
1 dual beam (tetryon i expect. The others i feel being a bit too random in their effects.)
2 arrays
aft
1 torp
2 arrays
I may switch that around slightly to 3 arrays fore 1 array aft. With a mine launcher taking up the slack. Though i'm rather viciously unfond of the fact that fire all torps also launches mines.
Fore: Dual Beam Bank, Beam Array
Aft: Beam Array, Torp Launcher
T3:
Fore: Dual Beam Bank, Torp Launcher, Beam Array x1
Aft: Beam Array x2, Torp Launcher
T4:
Fore: Dual Beam Bank x2, Torp Launcher, Beam Array x1
Aft: Beam Array x2, Torp Launcher
T5:
See T4, add whatever Aft you prefer. I'd suggest mines or another Dual Beam Bank.
This is my preferred setup. It optimizes damage in every direction without massive energy drain from broadsides. (Broadsides are a joke IMO, and people who rely on them are the loudest to complain about Cruiser turn rates.) You won't be draining massive energy by firing off too many arrays at once (3 is perfectly sustainable).
T2 is a bit painful by lacking overall burst damage, but it will teach you to work with your aft torp launcher, which will serve you well in higher tiers if you've already adopted the ability to swerve from a broadside into an aft torp and back into a broadside. After reaching T3, alpha strikes are entirely possible by using Beam overload and High Yield Torp in succession. T4 and above, loadouts become redundant and overall amusing.
Fore:
1x Mk IV Plasma Torpedo Launcher
1x Mk II Dual Disruptor Beam Array
Aft:
1x Phaser Turret Mk II
1x Disruptor Turret Mk II
Devices:
+7.5 to turn rate engineering console
Combat Impulse Engine Mk II
Bridge Officers:
Tac: High Yield Torpedo
Eng: Emergency Aux, Emergency Shields, and the power that buffs energy weapons
Sci: Jam Targeting Sensors
Unless I am flying into a hail of enemy torpedoes, I use a custom power layout of minimum to engine, everywhere else balanced. (I might have a little more in aux to help with turn rate). At range (5-10 km)
I have no problems keeping my targets in the fore arc. In knife fighting range, I buff turning radius with Attack Pattern Alpha, EP Aux, or Emergency Maneuvers for hitting a downed shield with a high yield torp. Speed is also crucial, as I turn better at lower speeds due to the installed engine.
The Plasma Torp is the killer here. At 4.5-5.5 k damage (high yield) on a location without shields, it lays beatdowns on anything that doesn't shoot the torp down. I'm toying with the idea of replacing the turrets with standard Mk II or 3 phaser arrays, and using the torp downtime to rake targets with the aft weapons. I think this would work better at longer ranges, but not so much in a knife fight.
5x Beam Array
1x Aft Launcher
and use'ing EPS to keep power up
if i volley fire it drops to 70, but is back to 100 before i fire again :P
with alternating fire, it rarely drops below 80
if i can find some higher lvl EPS i should be able to hold it @ 90-100
dmg output on broadside nice, vry vry vry nice.. the aft launcher comes in handy to finish em off, but usually = con bs's die in under 15-20s anyway
I still have the 2 EPS MK III consoles equipped and may need to look for some mk iv's
My question is from a lot of you folks that equip the dual beam arrays is how effective is that going to be on a T4 ship? Won't you be losing most of your firepower from enemies being in the wrong arc or a BoP kling riding your tail? Especially if you have them all on your forward firing arc?
I imagine that in a galaxy the enemy will choose what side of your ship the battle takes place.
On another note, after some more testing with beam overload is that it seems to only give you the DPS boost on one beam, for me hitting over 2k'ish. This is really bad for a beam boat because I could have done that much dmg anyway during a broadsides attack so I wouldn't recommend it for that setup.
I tried the tactical team and liked it a lot better.
ETA: And by "torpedo," I mean "cannon."
Err you can have torpedoes aft....
Most definitely, aft torpedoes are a staple for me on cruisers starting at tier 3. It also seems to be a good idea to throw at least one turret in an aft slot to help with shooting down HY plasma torpedoes ( etc.) as the turret has half the firing time cycle of arrays.