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Weapon information and some mechanics

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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Very nice read
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Dasorine wrote:
    Shields:

    Shield power: 25 setting gives 0 regen, 50 is 1x regen, 75 is 2x regen, 100 is 3x regen, 125 is 4x regen

    Heyo, couple of questions about shield power. Are the regen values you listed breakpoints? Meaning, do you not see any regen until you reach 50 and it is thus useless to set your power level to anything more than 25 if you cannot hit it with mods/skills/abilities? Or is there some partial level of regen between 25 and 50?

    Also, is your level of regen based on your base power level or your modified power level?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    excellent post
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    FoxyShoxzy wrote:
    Heyo, couple of questions about shield power. Are the regen values you listed breakpoints? Meaning, do you not see any regen until you reach 50 and it is thus useless to set your power level to anything more than 25 if you cannot hit it with mods/skills/abilities? Or is there some partial level of regen between 25 and 50?

    Also, is your level of regen based on your base power level or your modified power level?

    no their not breaking points, its 4% per point (as verified in someone elses post) so each point increases the regen by small amounts.

    and regen is based off your modified power level (hence why you get 4x at 125/100[or what ever the base is])
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Dasorine wrote:
    no their not breaking points, its 4% per point (as verified in someone elses post) so each point increases the regen by small amounts.

    and regen is based off your modified power level (hence why you get 4x at 125/100[or what ever the base is])

    I understand now, thank you very much.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Good into on the shields, how do we know that? Was there a dev post at some time explaining it?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Conjecture and experimentation. There has been no official comment however experiments and test have shown this to be the case. It could be there is a much more complicated equation for it, but in practice it comes out as 4% per point going from 0 to 400%
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    How do you test it? I've not seen any display indicating what the shield recharge rate is (much to my annoyance).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    by monitoring the numerical values listed in as shields as they regenerate.

    I would point out however, its confirmed by the in game info tips that 25 power results in no shield regeneration and 100 results in 3 times as much. So with that as a good solid base, and some rudimentary testing its easy to find that while it may not be exactly right 1 power = 4% regen works as a basis to decide on power levels and shields.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Dasorine wrote:
    by monitoring the numerical values listed in as shields as they regenerate.

    I would point out however, its confirmed by the in game info tips that 25 power results in no shield regeneration and 100 results in 3 times as much. So with that as a good solid base, and some rudimentary testing its easy to find that while it may not be exactly right 1 power = 4% regen works as a basis to decide on power levels and shields.

    I tested it, and it does indeed work that way - see the Ship Power Levels link in my sig, below.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    yep thats a good thread, confirmed what I found with my tests :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Dasorine wrote:
    Ok because forums got archived and can't be searched by the looks of it, heres some good weapons info from the beta:

    Weapon Types

    All energy weapons have a damage drop off at a distance, getting close will always do more damage, however bolt weapons (cannons and turrets) have a much greater damage drop off then beams, so at maximum range beams will do more damage than bolt weapons, though still less damage then if they were close range. Projectile weapons do not have this drop off, nor are they effected by weapon power settings.

    Energy weapons:


    Beam Arrays: 250' arc, low burst damage
    Dual Beams: 90' arc, medium burst damage

    Turret: 360' arc, low sustained DPS

    Cannons: 180' arc, medium sustained damage
    Dual Cannons: 45' arc, high sustained damage
    Dual Heavy Cannons, 45' arc, high burst/sustained damage (same overall damage as dual cannon but in 2 big bursts rather than 4 little hits)

    Projectile Weapons:

    Torpedoes: 90' arc, very high burst damage (75% less against shields)
    Mines: no arc... they're mines you put them down, things come near they go boom... Medium burst damage (75% less against shields)

    Damage Types

    Ships can have different resistances to different damage types. There also seems to be some other subtle side-effects to the different types:

    Space energy types:

    Phaser: Chance to disable a random subsystem
    Disruptor: Chance to debuff damage resistance
    Plasma: Chance to proc a fire based DoT
    Tetryon: Chance to proc Shield damage
    Polaron: Chance to drain power from all subsystems
    Anti-Proton: Bonus Crit damage

    Also Ground based damage types:

    Phaser: Chance to stun
    Disruptor: Chance to debuff damage resistances
    Plasma: Chance to proc fire based DoT
    Tetryon: Chance to proc Shield damage
    Polaron: Chance to proc weapon disable
    Anti-Proton: Bonus Crit damage

    Projectile:


    Photon: Less damage but faster fire rate. Regular boff effect.
    Quantum: More damage but slow fire rate. Regular boff effect.
    Plasma: medium damage with a chance to apply a DoT that ignores shields (decent against both unshielded and shielded targets). Plasma's version of High Yield fires a Plasma Ball that can be targetted and shot down.
    Transphasic - low damage, but much more of it penetrates shields (very good against shielded targets, mediocre against unshielded targets). Comes with standard Boff powers.
    Chroniton - can slow down enemies. (nice for making enemies' weakened shields harder to protect, or as a rear launcher to use when running away). Comes with standard Boff powers.
    Tricobalt - very high damage, and a short disable effect (stops target from using any powers for a moment). has a very long cooldown and doesn't get modified by Boff powers.

    Shields:

    Shield power: 25 setting gives 0 regen, 50 is 1x regen, 75 is 2x regen, 100 is 3x regen, 125 is 4x regen

    Basic - Medium Amount/Regen

    Resilient - Medium Amount/Regen
    Reduced Bleedthrough, which means your hull is taking less damage while your shields hold.

    Regenerative - Low amount, high regen
    *PRO reduced downtime, and if you turn fast enough many mobs wont ever penetrate any of your shields specially if you use allocation.
    *CON high burst damage such as heavy cannons or torp volleys quickly destroy your shield and begin damaging your hull.

    - High amount, low regen
    *PRO burst damage such as heavy cannon fire and torps will be absorbed by your shields without touching your hull (bar bleedthrough) allowing you enough time to take counter measures such as sensor scramble, evasive maneuvers or blowing them up before they shoot again.
    *CON long downtime for shields to regen, making you vulnerable to sustained DPS

    cute but i want to see the options described in this video added to sto

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1Oe3KezBUU
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Beams fire 1 beam of damage every second and fires for 4 seconds and recharges in 1 second.
    Cannons fire 2 shots of damage a second with Turrets and Non Heavy cannons firing for 2 seconds with a 1 second recharge, while Heavy Cannon fires 1 second with a 2 second cooldown


    % of Single Beam damage over time(approximate)
    Turrets 75%
    Single Beam 100%
    Single Cannon 120%
    Dual Beam 133%
    Dual Cannon 166%
    Dual Heavy Cannon 166%
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    fluhi wrote: »
    Beams fire 1 beam of damage every second and fires for 4 seconds and recharges in 1 second.
    Cannons fire 2 shots of damage a second with Turrets and Non Heavy cannons firing for 2 seconds with a 1 second recharge, while Heavy Cannon fires 1 second with a 2 second cooldown


    % of Single Beam damage over time(approximate)
    Turrets 75%
    Single Beam 100%
    Single Cannon 120%
    Dual Beam 133%
    Dual Cannon 166%
    Dual Heavy Cannon 166%

    actually cannons (dual and single) fire 4 shots in a second, after which they take 1 second to cooldown (so 2 seconds in total) heavys shoot 2 in 1 second with an additional 2 seconds after that.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Dasorine wrote:
    actually cannons (dual and single) fire 4 shots in a second, after which they take 1 second to cooldown (so 2 seconds in total) heavys shoot 2 in 1 second with an additional 2 seconds after that.

    If you look at the right click info it is there. Also if you calculate the damage per shot my way you get the dps number that is listed your way would do same damage in 2/3's the time that is a 50% increase over the same dps number.

    Heavy's have double the damage of Dual cannons yet same dps. They could not be the same dps if one cycle was 2 second and the others was 3 seconds. If in fact Dual cannons are only firing for 1 second and getting all 4 damage shots off then they are broken as that is a bigger increase then any other weapon gets as that would make it around 250% of a single beam's damage for dps.

    As you can see in my other post above there seems to be a flow to the arc vs damage with single cannon and single beams being adjusted to lower arc damage's as halving the arc seems to increase the damage 33% of single beam. Single beams get a damage bonus around a 180 arc while single cannons are getting around a 125 degree arc bonus yet both of those are much larger arc's then those yet follows in line with the 33% for halving. 360 - 180 - 90 - 45 or 75 - 100 - 133 - 166 if we had 22.5 degree arc weapons i would expect them to do 200% dps of a single beam.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    fluhi wrote: »
    If you look at the right click info it is there. Also if you calculate the damage per shot my way you get the dps number that is listed your way would do same damage in 2/3's the time that is a 50% increase over the same dps number.

    Heavy's have double the damage of Dual cannons yet same dps. They could not be the same dps if one cycle was 2 second and the others was 3 seconds. If in fact Dual cannons are only firing for 1 second and getting all 4 damage shots off then they are broken as that is a bigger increase then any other weapon gets as that would make it around 250% of a single beam's damage for dps.

    As you can see in my other post above there seems to be a flow to the arc vs damage with single cannon and single beams being adjusted to lower arc damage's as halving the arc seems to increase the damage 33% of single beam. Single beams get a damage bonus around a 180 arc while single cannons are getting around a 125 degree arc bonus yet both of those are much larger arc's then those yet follows in line with the 33% for halving. 360 - 180 - 90 - 45 or 75 - 100 - 133 - 166 if we had 22.5 degree arc weapons i would expect them to do 200% dps of a single beam.

    the listed cooldown on the info is the recharge on top of the 1 second global, not the total amount of time it takes for the gun to recharge (which is strange as torpedos and mines have it correctly done)

    So for cannons and dual cannons that list as 1 second, it actually takes them 2 seconds to be ready to fire again, heavys state 2 but take 3 seconds to be ready again. However the 1 second global is how long it takes for the gun to fire, with the dual and single firing 4 shots in that cooldown and heavy firing 2.

    What that means is if you have a single light cannon, you will be doing on average 2 shots a second (4 shots in a second with a second downtime) with a second one you double that to the 4 shots every second.

    with a single heavy you get 1 shot every 1.5 second average until you put more of them on, with 3 heavies giving you the 2 shots a second.

    This isn't conjecture or theory based on numbers, this is what tests have actually resulted in. This means that 3 heavy cannons will be more damage then 2 dual cannons, however its at the expense of an additional weapon slot being used.

    The DPS calculated on the cannons tooltips do not factor in the 1 second global cooldown that the gun will have to take on top of the listed cooldown.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Not sure if this has been mentioned/discovered before, or if it's worthy of being included, so I'm just gonna toss it out there.

    So I've got a Tactical BOff at Lieutenant Rank and assigned to the Lt Console with Cannon: Rapid Fire 1, an Escort with all Disruptor Cannons and two Tactical Consoles for +7.5 Disruptors (Ensign) and +7.5 Cannons (Lt). APPARENTLY, which Console slot it's in, left or right, does NOT matter, because he can use his Rapid Fire Cannons just fine from the hotbar. My question is, why isn't the higher Cannon skill showing up on my Space-based Skills?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    not really sure what your asking their bar... BO got a higher rank rapid fire not showing up or?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    ok using the controls options i have available here is what i came up with

    ground
    ground control scheme
    ground key set binds
    camera free move
    camera follow never
    mouse default 2.5
    then in oreder dowm
    off
    on
    off

    on

    off
    off

    on
    0.0
    off
    off
    off
    off
    off

    on
    off
    off


    limitations = targets always closest wont maintain attacks on same guy unless you target using tab OR CLICK TARGET

    CRYPTIC YOU NEED TO ADD THE FPS CONTROL SCHEME FROM CHAMPS
    ALSO YOU NEED TO ADD THE TARGET PRESEDENCE OPTION SO WE SET IT TO CLOSETS TO CENTER

    MATTER OF FACT JUST ADD THE CONTROL AND VIDEO OPTIONS FROM CHAMPIONS ONLINE PLEASE

    strengths makes charector highly mobile great for setting support you place curser on your avatar and follow buddies will bring up their health with out targetting so makes healing easier buffs and debuffs go to closest enemy
    alos for melee combat it is awsome especially tact officers

    try it out tell me what you think
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Are beam weapons bugged atm? I notice that the 250' arc weapons actually do more to enemy shields even when sitting on the mob shooting straight with just one than a dual cannon or the dual beam one.. not sure if it is bugged or not but it really appears as though the (DPS) rating of weapons is extremely wrong..

    Anyone able to confirm or deny this? Seems like beams hit faster than they should currently.. Cannons and the other are more tactical since you need to position correctly to use them but even flying head on my beam seems to drop shields faster.. need input please =)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Dasorine wrote:
    the listed cooldown on the info is the recharge on top of the 1 second global, not the total amount of time it takes for the gun to recharge (which is strange as torpedos and mines have it correctly done)

    So for cannons and dual cannons that list as 1 second, it actually takes them 2 seconds to be ready to fire again, heavys state 2 but take 3 seconds to be ready again. However the 1 second global is how long it takes for the gun to fire, with the dual and single firing 4 shots in that cooldown and heavy firing 2.

    What that means is if you have a single light cannon, you will be doing on average 2 shots a second (4 shots in a second with a second downtime) with a second one you double that to the 4 shots every second.

    with a single heavy you get 1 shot every 1.5 second average until you put more of them on, with 3 heavies giving you the 2 shots a second.

    This isn't conjecture or theory based on numbers, this is what tests have actually resulted in. This means that 3 heavy cannons will be more damage then 2 dual cannons, however its at the expense of an additional weapon slot being used.

    The DPS calculated on the cannons tooltips do not factor in the 1 second global cooldown that the gun will have to take on top of the listed cooldown.


    Mines and torps don't toggle for a duration therefore thier recharge timer started near instantly. All energy weapon have a toggle max that is listed at the top of the stats all beams are 4 which equals 4 seconds, all non heavy cannos have a 2 which is 2 second and heavys are 1. Look at any skill that is a toggle you will see a toggle max number at the top always. Tachyon beam is a 3.6 second toggle max, Extend shields a 30 second toggle. Recharge doesn't kick in till after the toggle is done firing. Just look at beams they fire for 4 seconds then you see a 1 second recharge pop up.

    That is why if in fact dual cannons are doing all thier shots 1 second and be able to fire again in 1 second they are bugged as they are doing 83% more single beam dps then a heavy and 150% more single beam damage then a single beam when they should be doing the same damage as a heavy just in a more dps style versus burst.

    All cannons seem to follow a damage shot every .5 seconds to reach thier designated toggle max time and recharge for the damage/dps numbers. All Beam weapon follow a 1 second damage tic to reach thier designated toggle max time and recharge for the damage/dps numbers.

    The DPS calculated on a cannon's tooltip don't need to figure a global cooldown as it calculating a single weapon which has a 1 or 2 second cooldown already as alll energy weapons do. If what you said is true again why would only a dual cannon have the wrong tooltip and do 250% of a single beams damage.

    All my numbers i used for the first post percents is using all the same mark equipment using thier damage, dps, toggle max, recharge.

    These are the numbers off a mark 6 set of energy weapons. Can do the numbers and calculations if you like but this is what they are suppose to do and if dual cannons are in fact doing what you say they are the only thing i have found in game that doesn't follow thier toggle max number and should be bugged as they get way to much damage bonus by cutting out 33% of thier cycle time they are suppose to be balanced around.
    type--damage--dps--toggle max--recharge
    sb--159--127--4--1
    db--212--169--4--1
    tu--072--096--2--1
    sc--115--153--2--1
    dc--160--213--2--1
    hc--319--213--1--2
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Why isn't all of this information given in the game? It's the same deal with the skills, item specs, etc (I have no idea wtf +5 to sensors means). It's like they made a decision to purposely be as "cryptic" as possible.

    Part of my job is software testing so I know devs aren't usually usability-minded, but a big game studio should have people dedicated to usability.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Why isn't all of this information given in the game? It's the same deal with the skills, item specs, etc (I have no idea wtf +5 to sensors means). It's like they made a decision to purposely be as "cryptic" as possible.

    Part of my job is software testing so I know devs aren't usually usability-minded, but a big game studio should have people dedicated to usability.

    Science and Tactical console and deflector dishes bonuses usually appliy to the starship captain skill of the same name. Sensor in this case would be starship sensors in the operation tree of your captain skills this skill boost all sensor based skills which are the skills listed under sensor array, sensor probes and astrometrics as sensor is a Lt Com rank skill it boost a subsection of the tree, Lt skill boost all the tree(except engineering/ground tree cases and away teams) and all Com., Capt. and Admiral skill boost only those specific skills. So for items ons with the general boost are better as they buff more skills compared to the specific ones.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    fluhi wrote: »
    Science and Tactical console and deflector dishes bonuses usually appliy to the starship captain skill of the same name. Sensor in this case would be starship sensors in the operation tree of your captain skills this skill boost all sensor based skills which are the skills listed under sensor array, sensor probes and astrometrics as sensor is a Lt Com rank skill it boost a subsection of the tree, Lt skill boost all the tree(except engineering/ground tree cases and away teams) and all Com., Capt. and Admiral skill boost only those specific skills. So for items ons with the general boost are better as they buff more skills compared to the specific ones.

    unless your specializing in certain things or have limited slots.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    fluhi wrote: »
    That is why if in fact dual cannons are doing all thier shots 1 second and be able to fire again in 1 second they are bugged as they are doing 83% more single beam dps then a heavy and 150% more single beam damage then a single beam when they should be doing the same damage as a heavy just in a more dps style versus burst.

    it may be a bug, it may not be, things where changed lots in the OB and tooltips weren't really updated as well.

    The cannons/dual cannons do go into a 2 second toggle but all their shots are off by time a second cannon (1 second after pressing the fire first cannon button is pressed) is firing. And at the end of the toggle the cannons are already cooled down and ready to fire again.

    The DPS amount on the tooltip is the amount they'd get if their total cooldown was 3 seconds, but the now get ready in 2 seconds... So yes something is a bit iffy but the mechanics are as written.

    If they bump it up to 3 seconds cooldown a third dual cannon would be doable but there would be no difference between duals and heavy duals damage over time wise. So if things are incorrect the best bet would be to have them tweak the dual cannons damage down to coincide with the current cooldown.

    Also point out that turrets fire off all 4 of their shots in the first second of their toggle and are back again at the end of the toggle.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Is the mine launcher supposed to trigger a cooldown in the torpedoes as well? I find this feature very bothersome as it really screws up my timings and about 50% of the time it causes my heavy plasma to not fire at all.

    Does anyone else have this problem or is it just my ship being TRIBBLE.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Great info, will have to spend some more time fully digesting it all. I do have a couple questions though...

    I think I know the answer to this one but just want to check since it is not specifically stated. Beam weapons (i.e. 250 degree beam array for instance) do not have a shared cooldown no matter how they are slotted? So you can stick two fore and both fire on their own cooldowns?

    Also, did I read correctly from the OP that a plasma torpedo lauched with the high yield BOFF skill is shootable but regular plasma torpedos are not?

    The various consoles that buff weapon types (i.e. beam +X or disruptor +Y) is that a direct damage add to each firing (each beam or cannon or torpedo)? And do these stack, I have been told multiple console bonuses of same or different value/type all stack.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I agree with 2 reg dual cannons loadout is good for now, but ive tested 3 heavys as well and it seems the 3rd 1 isnt fireing just as it woulkd be with the 2 reg duals. Can someone confirm that 3 is the way to go because im not seeing it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Perhaps someone can tell me the difference between tactical consoles that affect general torpedo damage and those that affect a specific type (like plasma projectiles) So if I have a console that gives +11 to Torpedoes and one that gives +15 to Plasma projectiles will that +15 be better to use if I have a plasma torpedo launcher?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    gHz -

    Yes beams have no gcd, you can fire all the ones you have equipped together.

    Yes plasma high yield are slow and shoot-able but their regular torpedoes are not, they are just like other torpedoes

    And yes the consoles do stack.

    Orxlayer -

    just retested 3 heavys, they do still work, albeit at the whim of lag, 1 second in a 3 second duration isn't actually all that noticable, but it still works.

    Embsers of satin -

    Yes the +15 plasma projectiles would be better to use if you have plasma torpedoes equipped however make sure its plasma projectiles its buffing (ambienvelope plasma console) and not the energy weapons plasma its buffing (plasma infuser) as they are separate stats.
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