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We still need advanced difficulty for event missions
fleetcaptain5
Member Posts: 5,051 Arc User
I've been doing Azure Nebula for the event. On normal difficulty, because we don't get to choose.
My observations: in each team there's players just flying off the map, probably because they're very bored. I can understand this. It doesn't matter which type of build you use (beams, drain-torp, EPG), everything is destroyed with a single volley, spread, anomaly or whatever.
Just now I finished an instance where one player didn't have anything to do. A few times he flew with me, other times he flew with others. At some point he just cloaked and 'wandered' off, because everything got destroyed before he could do much.
Which made me feel guilty. Until I realised that I wasn't the problem here, the lack of options, thereby forcing everyone into Normal, is.
The bottom line: give us options! Players who belong on normal difficulty don't get a chance to play, players who don't belong there but are forced into it, don't get a challenge. How is this good for anyone?
My observations: in each team there's players just flying off the map, probably because they're very bored. I can understand this. It doesn't matter which type of build you use (beams, drain-torp, EPG), everything is destroyed with a single volley, spread, anomaly or whatever.
Just now I finished an instance where one player didn't have anything to do. A few times he flew with me, other times he flew with others. At some point he just cloaked and 'wandered' off, because everything got destroyed before he could do much.
Which made me feel guilty. Until I realised that I wasn't the problem here, the lack of options, thereby forcing everyone into Normal, is.
The bottom line: give us options! Players who belong on normal difficulty don't get a chance to play, players who don't belong there but are forced into it, don't get a challenge. How is this good for anyone?
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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But Azure Nebula cannot last longer than 12 minutes or so and it cannot be completed faster either.
So there is no point in forcing players with such huge damage output differences into the same mission and ruin the experience for everyone, good and casual players alike.
Thank you for starting this thread.
I strongly agree with this statement. It makes no sense to me to mix casual and advanced or better players, aside from the single reason already stated above.
Unlike some other event maps there doesn't seem to be any reasonable way for me to sequester myself in Azure Nebula so that I don't interfere with the enjoyment of other players, aside from flying off somewhere and watching TV.
Prior to advanced difficulty event maps being discontinued at least it was possible to politely assist with progress if needed without entire enemy groups disappearing with the push of a button or two.
I can unfortunately see my interest waning in this event campaign before the year is done despite the generous rewards being offered.
I don't think in any pursuit (not just online games but any hobby) it should be assumed that those involved will remain static in their capabilities for the lifetime of their involvement.
Imagine if the event version of Azure Nebula was still normal difficulty, but it was tweaked so that sites respawned faster and the event ended if you freed 21(?) points worth of ships. A strong team would finish much faster than running out the clock, but with only 7 points required it would still be almost impossible to fail. That would be a nice change to the non-event version too.
There is something that upsets me from time to time and i've heared other players complainig about this too, so i want to adress this here.
It is when players with high power ships/equipment enter normal level TFOs.
There are a lot of players like me that haven't got the time to maximize every piece of equipment, also there are some new playes too, that just want to play TFOs too, and not in the way of 'just grab the plunder and leave' but it's annoying and often boring when someone is in the team who isntantly destroys everything.
Adressing it to those players i often get replies like "Stop whining" or "get a proper ship".
I have to confess that my tone sometimes get's rougher too if this happens multiple times but in general it's not whining, it's about respecting other players that wanted to play the game too, and seriously, that is what the dificulty levels are for: to compensate those distinctions.
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For example, sometimes when playing ground I won't use run and when playing space I won't use any offensive captain abilities (i.e. attack pattern alpha). Sometimes I won't even use emergency power to weapons, or an attack pattern, or a firing mode, as pressing the spacebar is all that's really needed. If there are multiple corridors or lanes I'll pick ONE and keep to myself in order to let other players do their thing in other lanes.
The difference in performance, when playing normal difficult, has very little to do with "maximizing equipment" "min/maxing" having "highly tuned builds" or a lot of the other gross exaggerations popular phrases folks like to throw about.
Mobility is gained through the use of reputation engines plus emergency power to engines and a conn officer doff available to everybody in-game.
Increased performance is gained through the use of combining emergency power to weapons, attack pattern beta, a firing mode, and photonic officer for cooldown reduction. These are also available in-game, to everybody. When used together and as often as possible this is the wonderful "stacking math" the game provides all players.
It's refreshing to see a couple of new threads in the shipyard from players who want to do a little better.
If the Tholian event ever returns rest assured I'll buy it out next time as I certainly no longer wish to participate in a queue I left behind (grew out of) about a decade ago.
Mark my words.. the game is going to lose players if it continues to offer event maps on normal difficulty only, as the maps have literally nothing to offer a lot of players.
I also think the game might be due for a difficulty adjustment.
Hope ya'll are enjoying your rear firing torpedoes
Under some circumstances I'd agree.
In missions like Guillotine though - where I think we met - it kinda makes sense to destroy the enemies as fast as possible. More casual players tend to get overwhelmed pretty quickly near the end (i.e. with 5 stitching points completed) if the Adaptors etc. near the remaining points don't get stopped as soon as they spawn. Certainly if there are players missing too.
And plenty of people tend to ignore optionals like stopping the Assimilators. In such cases I think it's acceptable to destroy the enemy as fast as possible. That's even the objective.
It would be different if a player blew up a dreadnought instantly. Those fights are supposed to last longer.
I've played Guillotine last weekend with a group that was about the same strengh than i am. We had only enough fiepower to defend 2 stitching points a the time, many assimilators escaped, the final batte with the cubes took about 30min. But fighting this extremly long battle, rushing back and forward to help each other out and complete the TFO as a team was more rewarding than any bloody marks or plunder you get usually.
You dont have to complete every mission 100% perfect.
So first up, those high powered people have just as much right to be in that TFO as you do. Personally I wouldn't touch normal event TFOs if I had the choice of advanced or elite, but I don't. Simply because someone brings their strongest build to the TFO does not mean there is an issue or a problem, nor is it an issue or a problem because that build they brought is stronger than your own.
For the line in bold, they are not under any obligation to nerf themselves or bring lesser builds just to please you as the game does not revolve around you. So long as you're getting rewards and are benefitting from your own work and your team, what's the problem? When you press that button and join up as a solo player you are throwing the dice on what kind of teammates you will get. You may get teammates that can't fight their way out of a wet paper bag with 4 sets of instructions and 10 knives, or get a team capable of sneezing entire galaxies out of existence. If you don't want to risk running into those people then your safest bet is to form your own groups with like minded people so you don't have to risk running into those people. Asking others to bring lesser ships just to play around you is whining, sorry but it is. Unless he's actively following you around and trying to prevent you from progressing at all, why should someone be restricted from using a build they put time, effort, and resources into creating because you don't like it? Respect goes both ways on that. If you were somehow being prevented from progressing at all or locked out of rewards then I would say this is a much bigger issue.
Now I have to ask this question too, did you run any kind of parse to see what kind of numbers someone is pulling? Because the last time an argument like this was cited in a thread actual parse data was presented that showed what people consider the presence of a high DPSer is often the combined might of their team. If you have 5 people in a run doing 20k DPS each, that's not alot on its own, but combined is 100k total beating down on something. If we assume our 5th guy is only doing 5k and the other 4 people are doing 20k each, that's still a combined total of 85k DPS which is more than enough to melt something on normal mode. Even ships with mk xii very rare gear and a cohesive build can melt things on normal mode runs.
Far as builds go, I see people claim they don't have time to max out their ships or do this or that with their gear, but have found most of them are just excuses people throw up for one reason or another. If all folks can do is one hour a day, that's 7 hours in a week that one can play. In 7 hours you can farm out entire mk xii very rare builds for a ship from space sets, weapons, consoles and so on. You won't be breaking DPS records but you can get at least a basic cohesive build put together to clear 99% of the content in game, including several elites. You do NOT need a mk xv gold everything to succeed in this game, that's a myth. One can also do several cycles of Dyson ground for some good dilithium farming in that 7 hours as well for phoenix upgrades to boost your gear. Then especially with how they hand out ultimate tech upgrades now. I'm not suggesting people have to make this game their life, but if people want a decent build they can have it with a tiny amount of effort required. If they choose not to do so, that's not the fault of their fellow players or the job of their fellow players to play around them.
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^^^
In those case, no, I don't apologize for (where/when possible) completing it as fast as possible.
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When I play a normal difficulty event map it's the only option available. When you play an elite difficulty TFO you have two other options available.
TBH I'd rather see both of us playing on advanced maps where there's more hit points available for everybody
For the second line in bold, I absolutely agree there needs to be different difficulty levels.
As for the first line in bold, here's where I get accused of hypocrisy and elitism, sorry but no you do not have a right to enter elites if you haven't put in the work to be there thus subjecting people to an automatic fail. You won't change my mind on that.
Now before someone says "but double standards and elitism", my standard has not changed. You have the right to do whatever you want in game so long as you've earned the right to be there and aren't negatively effecting another person. In this instance a person who is underpowered and not ready for public elites is guaranteeing an automatic fail of the mission by their presence and has no business or right to be in there until they've done the necessary work to be able to carry their own weight. If the TFO requires everyone in there deal 50k minimum or eat an automatic fail, then no one below 50k has any business or right to be in that public TFO. If you want to get a group of friends who are able to carry you through elites on private mode, that's on you guys. But you do not get to force 4 random people to carry you. Sorry but no one in this game is that important. Demanding people be allowed into public elites before they're ready to ruin it for 4 other people is like saying a first day pilot in training ha a right to fly the plane solo. Sorry but no, no he doesn't, not at the expense of the safety of everyone else. When that pilot gets some more training under his belt and has put in the work to earn his wings, then he can fly solo. Now apply that same standard to public elites. You have a right to speak, but not a right to slander.
I am not saying people can NEVER join public elites, I'm saying they have no business or right to be in there until they've put in the work to get there. If a public elite requires 50k minimum to complete and someone is at 35k, sorry but they're not ready yet and need to improve their skill and/or build until they can hit that 50k. Once they hit that 50k then by all means welcome to the club. I hold myself and my own fleet to that standard. Problem is far too many want it now or want elite levels of rewards but with only normal or advanced levels of effort and sorry but no. They want it, they can earn it like everyone else. Even the game backs me up on this by proxy. If people are constantly hitting fail conditions that's the game itself telling them to improve and come back later. Now I am not simply advocating to lock people out, I'm saying they need earn the right to be there due to fail conditions. Like it or not elite is a completely different ballgame to advanced and normal. if not for those fail conditions and the game itself setting a different standard, I wouldn't care who is in there and we wouldn't be having that conversation.
Now far as "high powered people destroying everything super fast in normal" show me the parses to prove that's the case. If someone is following someone around constantly and camping them so they can never shoot ever, then I would say we have a problem. Otherwise I've found what people excuse as "high end players" in normal is actually the combined might of their team. Again this is normal mode and it's an easy mistake to make. Believe me I won't want to be in normal mode anymore than you want me there either. Though I do have to ask so long as you're getting rewards and completing the content, what's the problem if there is a high DPS person in there making it easier for everyone? You're completing content, you're getting rewards, everyone wins. Aside from some people being mad someone has a stronger ship than them I don't see an issue since content is being completed. The difference between that and elites is the underpowered person prevents the ability to complete the content thus the issue. Unless folks can produce parse results showing this is some kind of epidemic issue, I'm sorry but I don't believe it's this huge issue folks make it out to be and are actually seeing the power of their team. If you have 5 people doing 20k DPS each, that's a combined 100k beating down on something. 100k is 100k whether it's 5 people or 1, and that will melt things in normal mode especially.
Lastly, when the game itself makes a distinction between elites and all other game difficulties, why wouldn't I?
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