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Theorycrafting some bad build ideas

evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,950 Arc User
Before I get into my two planned builds and my question for them, I want to make it clear that I know these are bad ideas, but I already have a LOT of characters (currently at 22 level 65s) and I want to try something different with two I plan to level in the future.

What I want to do is something I always tell people NOT to do: mix beams and cannons on the same ship. I intend to do this with a Legendary Scimitar using Surgical Strikes, and a Legendary D'Deridex using Exceed Rated Limits (I might try converting my Saber character to this one instead once I finish the Disco rep on her, the Saber would have a better weapon layout and turn rate for this kind of thing but I'm worried about survivability with using ERL on an escort). The Scimitar captain will be a Reman and the DD captain will be a Romulan, so both will have easy access to Romulan boffs. My question is this: are there any traits or consoles that would increase the damage potential of SS or ERL, or should I just focus on more generic traits? I've also never used Surgical Strikes before so I don't know anything about it's performance, I do use ERL on my Legendary Sovereign character so I'm more familiar with that one.

Equipment and ability wise my builds will probably look something like this (I know many of these choices are not optimal at all, but overall this is what I find fun. Weapon sets are also off the table for the most part because I just can't deal with weapons using different audio and visual effects.):

Scimitar

Front Weapons: Plasma DBB, Plasma QC, Plasma DC, Wide Angle Plasma DHC, Altamid Torpedo
Rear Weapons: Plasma Omni, Altamid Omni, Plasma Turret
Deflector: Disco Rep
Engine: Crafted with [Inertia]
Warp Core: undecided
Shield: Disco Rep
T6U Uni Console: Plasma Infuser
Eng Consoles: Conductive RCS Accelerator, 2x Bellum RCS Accelerator
Sci Consoles: Exotic Particle Field Exciter with [Turn], other two slots are available for Uni consoles
Tac Consoles: 5x Plasma Infusers (vulnerability exploiters if I decide to put this toon in a fleet and invest in them)

Com Tac: Tac Team 1, KLW 2, Torp Spread 3, Surgical Strikes 3 (TT and KLW can be flipped, only put KLW 2 because I think it's cheaper than KLW1)
Lt Com Eng: EPtE 1, Eng Team 2, EPtW 3
Lt Com Uni: Polarize Hull 1, Sci Team 2, Photonic Officer 2
Lt Uni: EPtS 1, Reverse Shield Polarity 1 (panic buttons)
Ensign Uni: Hazard Emitters 1

D'Deridex

Front Weapons: 2x Zhat Vash beam arrays, 1x Zhat Vash single cannon, Prolonged Engagement Torpedo
Rear Weapons: 1x Zhat Vash beam array, 3x Zhat Vash turrets
Deflector: Disco Rep
Engine: Crafted with Inertia
Warp Core: endecided
Shield: Disco Rep
Uni Consoles: 2x Disruptor Coils
Eng Consoles: Conductive RCS Accelerator, 4x Bellum RCS Accelerator
Sci Consoles: Exotic Particle Field Exciter with [Turn], other two slots are available for Uni consoles
Tac Consoles: 3x Disruptor Coils (vulnerability locators if I decide to put this toon in a fleet and invest in them)

Com Eng: EPtE 1, Eng Team 2, EPtW 3, Exceed Rated Limits 3
Lt Com Tac: Tac Team 1, KLW 2, Torp Spread 3 (TT and KLW can be flipped, only put KLW 2 because I think it's cheaper than KLW1)
Lt Com Sci: Polarize Hull 1, Sci Team 2, Photonic Officer 2
Lt Uni: EPtS 1, Reverse Shield Polarity 1 (panic buttons)
Ensign Uni: Hazard Emitters 1
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Comments

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    evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    westmetals wrote: »
    I don't think I would do a mixed beam/cannon build unless:
    - the ship has MW spec seating (Mixed Armament Synergy trigger)
    - there's a set bonus that you can't otherwise get reasonably (such as using the Trilithium turret alongside the Gamma phaser omni)
    - the ship has an absolute ton of Tac BOFF seating so slotting fire modes for both is not a problem

    I can't think of a fourth reason.

    Like I said I know this is a bad idea, it looks like you didn't read much of what I said though so here's a quick TLDR:

    - I'm only doing this because I have a ton of characters already and want a different gameplay experience to use occasionally while doing events
    - Surgical Strikes (on the Scimitar) and Exceed Rated Limits (on the D'Deridex or Saber) are my intended fire modes since they apply to both beams and cannons
    - I'm trying to find out if there are any particular traits (other than the ones listed on the wiki) or consoles that would benefit either of those two firing modes
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    evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    edited January 2022
    westmetals wrote: »
    I DID read what you said., I am sick and tired of people assuming I didn't understand a post because I did not agree with it.

    Everything you said in your first reply clearly implied that you did not, in fact, read the original post.
    westmetals wrote: »
    - the ship has MW spec seating (Mixed Armament Synergy trigger)

    I clearly stated that one of the ships I planned to use is a Miracle Worker ship, so saying I should use a ship with Miracle Worker seating implies you did not read the post.
    westmetals wrote: »
    - there's a set bonus that you can't otherwise get reasonably (such as using the Trilithium turret alongside the Gamma phaser omni)

    I clearly stated I can't stand using weapons with different audio and visual effects, implying you did not read the post.
    westmetals wrote: »
    - the ship has an absolute ton of Tac BOFF seating so slotting fire modes for both is not a problem

    I clearly stated what my intended firing modes were, making this statement absolutely pointless.
    westmetals wrote: »
    Issuing a TLDR on the assumption that "you did not agree therefore you did not read" is frankly idiotic and insulting.

    I apologize if you feel insulted by a simple clarification, I did not mean to be rude or anything I simply genuinely interpreted your comments as being the result of not reading due to how unrelated they were to the ideas and question I had asked. In fact I really don't see how anyone could have read your reply and come to a different conclusion. I saw the need of a TLDR as a failure on me for posting a bit of a wall of text, it was not an attack on you.
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    szerontzurszerontzur Member Posts: 2,724 Arc User
    edited January 2022
    There are a handful for traits for SS, but honestly, I wouldn't say they're really worth investing in - you'd likely get more bang for your buck using the trait slot(s) for other, more broadly applicable, things. If there are any for ERL, they certainly don't come to mind off the top of my head.

    Really, mixed weapons isn't 'that' big of a deal anymore(you won't set records, but that hasn't been a relevant concern for common gameplay in over a decade). The proliferation of power generation and weapon drain reductions have really mitigated the firing cycles issue of unstable weapon power. Just make sure you're running something like EPtW3 and you'll be fine.

    I'm not sure how dead-set you are with using SS and ERL specifically, but Entwined Tactical Matrices does let you conserve button/bridge space a bit if you use Torpedo Spread as a catalyst for both BFAW and CSV.

    As a side comment, you can kind of cheat like I did with my Durgath and use a mix of regular beams with discovery/'linked' beams to imitate the effect of having beams and cannons. Phasers come in enough flavors by now that you could probably mix them with the disco phaser variants as well. Obviously, you seem to have a theme in mind with your weapon choices, but perhaps it'll be good food for thought down the road.
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    evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    szerontzur wrote: »
    There are a handful for traits for SS, but honestly, I wouldn't say they're really worth investing in - you'd likely get more bang for your buck using the trait slot(s) for other, more broadly applicable, things. If there are any for ERL, they certainly don't come to mind off the top of my head.

    This is what I thought, but I wanted to make sure.
    szerontzur wrote: »
    I'm not sure how dead-set you are with using SS and ERL specifically, but Entwined Tactical Matrices does let you conserve button/bridge space a bit if you use Torpedo Spread as a catalyst for both BFAW and CSV.

    I already have a few characters using ETM for pure beam builds, but for some reason I hadn't considered it for this ... I'm pretty set on using SS and ERL as the primary fire modes just to make things different, but the free BFAW and CSV from ETM could fill in the gaps when SS or ERL are on cooldown. Thank you!
    szerontzur wrote: »
    As a side comment, you can kind of cheat like I did with my Durgath and use a mix of regular beams with discovery/'linked' beams to imitate the effect of having beams and cannons. Phasers come in enough flavors by now that you could probably mix them with the disco phaser variants as well. Obviously, you seem to have a theme in mind with your weapon choices, but perhaps it'll be good food for thought down the road.

    Yeah, I already do that with one of my klingon characters (mix of normal and linked disruptors), it definitely does a great job of looking like a mixed weapon setup without giving you all of the associated build limitations.
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    tom61stotom61sto Member Posts: 3,650 Arc User
    Some thoughts:
    The L-D'D has a decent Inertia from the specs at least, so consider going full 4-piece Discovery set over [Inertia] engines, as that should help with any durability issues a fair bit. Then, you could lean into a more offensive BOff layout, with EPtW bumped down the healing being limited to the second Eng, then slot Mixed Armaments Synergy and Narrow Sensor Bands. You sholdn't need EpTW3 if you're at cap for weapons either passively or after hitting a lower rank of EPtW, as you don't need overcap with Exceed Rated Limits and the Bonus damage it gives is pretty small compared to MAS, and possibly NSB (EPtW1 with NSB2 or NSB1 with EPtW2 might be something worth experimenting with). Speaking of weapon cap, you might consider using the console that comes the T6 D'D to boost your max weapons power cap to 130 instead of 125 being limit. Then, stack yet more Haste on top, like Starship Traits Emergency Weapon Cycle and Calm Before the Storm.

    I have less thoughts on the L-Scim: just I'd use Override Subsystems Safeties 3 for a large boost of weapon power, and possibly look into Accuracy Boosts to stack into Accuracy Overflow after you've exhausted lower hanging boosts, as it gives a small amount of Critical Damage and a tiny amount of Critical Hit the further past the target's Defense you get (and Surgical Strikes 3 gives a decent pile of Accuracy).
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    annemarie30annemarie30 Member Posts: 2,623 Arc User
    I know you said Scimitar and D'Derp, but the only reason I can see using a beam would be for subsystem targeting. Does any of the scimi variants have subsystem targeting?
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    tom61stotom61sto Member Posts: 3,650 Arc User
    I know you said Scimitar and D'Derp, but the only reason I can see using a beam would be for subsystem targeting. Does any of the scimi variants have subsystem targeting?

    None integrated, and Subsystem Targeting is all energy weapons including cannons now anyways. The Omnis do hit harder than a turret at base, so if you're running a firing enhancement mode that works with both like OP is planning to on the Legendary variants, it can work out to more damage. Main drawback of those is that there aren't any extension traits/abilities that increase the uptime between activations(like Cannons Scatter Volley and Withering Barrage or Fire At Will and Entwined Tactical Matrices) so you don't see it much in higher end play.
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    evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    The more I think about it, the more I think the D'Deridex is ill-suited to this kind of thing, at least using the weapons I want to put on it anyway. I finished the Discovery rep on my Saber captain this morning though so I tried the ERL on that with the addition of MAS thanks to some of the comments here, it worked well enough for my purposes that I think I'll keep it as an alternate loadout on that toon, my Rapid Fire loadout is obviously more effective but it's fun to change things up every now and then. The Disco 2-piece set bonus practically eliminated the self hull damage from ERL so it being an escort isn't a problem.

    As for the D'D, I think when I level that character up I'm just going to do pure beams now, though I may still throw ERL in there anyway just because 75% of my characters use BFAW builds already.
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    annemarie30annemarie30 Member Posts: 2,623 Arc User
    instead of FAW go pure Overload build. the boff powers plus the singularity power could make it interesting
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