Uncorked Bottle: The Return of James Moriarty and Countess Regina Barthalomew

redshirtjohnson

so, I've been thinking about this for 10+ years, and I had wanted to do this as a Foundry *RIP* mission if it was never going to be done as proper story mission, is The Return of James Moriarty and The countess Regina, last we saw them they were loaded into a long-term memory core/ storage unit, I always wondered what happened to that unit, was it aboard the Enterprise-D when it crashed in Generations, in deleted scenes for Nemesis, we see Geordi La Forge and Worf packing up Data's personal effect, (think there is a smaller scene that makes it into the film) but I have to question was that unit still with Data at the time of his initial death in Nemesis, or had sometime before Generations did he entrust the unit to The Daystrom Institute, and upon the return of Voyager to the Beta Quadrant, did The Doctor (Joe) further fight to free other EMH Mark I's and other Photonics and worked with The Daystrom Institute to reverse engineer the 29th Century mobile emitter. Sure the Synth Ban could have put a kink in that, but we still see in Picard at the Quantum Archive that they still use Photonics so I don't think for a moment Dr. Joe and company where outlawed, and the device that is running Data's engrams in Picard would seem to work on the same principles as the status unit that James and Regina are in.

I would love to find out that they where able make real bodies for them, or at least mobile emitters. I'd love to see James turn out to be the Federation President in Discovery Season 4, or show up in Picard Season 2 or 3 so long as Daniel Davis is still well enough to return, or baring that, here in STO doing a new 2 part story arch and he returns to do new VO work.

https://youtu.be/Sq8YSwMvToQ

Unknown

This content has been removed.

redshirtjohnson

somtaawkhar wrote: »

According to STO's "Path to 2409" the Moriarty hologram was being kept by Starfleet security, and, upon learning of its existence, the Soong Foundation sued Starfleet to have it turned over to them

https://sto.gamepedia.com/Accolade/Lore

And the legal fight for civil rights for artificial lifeform hit a snag over the hologram known as "Moriarty." Alerted to its existence in a Starfleet computer, the Soong Foundation sued to have the program released into its custody.

Attorneys for Starfleet argued that Moriarty and his companion were a security risk, and that the program's attempt to take over the U.S.S Enterprise-D in 2369 allowed Starfleet to keep it in indefinite custody to protect the public. "That's just imprisonment without a trial," argued Alyssa Cogley-Shaw, lead attorney for the Soong Foundation. "Since when did Starfleet turn into the Obsidian Order?"

good that it was addressed, and I would still love to see James and Regina freed outright, Picard set up a great way to do so, and ideally STO would be a great place to see that come to fruition. thank you for the link. I love James and Regina, and just saw this video of Daniel Davis talking about his time on the show. https://youtu.be/SLFbC6CeRuw to paraphrase another doctor, my aunt would be so giddy, if they could do this, the rights to the Holes stories are mostly in the public domain now, (since 2014) and the rest will all be in PD by 2023.

leemwatson

redshirtjohnson#9017 wrote: »

somtaawkhar wrote: »

According to STO's "Path to 2409" the Moriarty hologram was being kept by Starfleet security, and, upon learning of its existence, the Soong Foundation sued Starfleet to have it turned over to them

https://sto.gamepedia.com/Accolade/Lore

And the legal fight for civil rights for artificial lifeform hit a snag over the hologram known as "Moriarty." Alerted to its existence in a Starfleet computer, the Soong Foundation sued to have the program released into its custody.

Attorneys for Starfleet argued that Moriarty and his companion were a security risk, and that the program's attempt to take over the U.S.S Enterprise-D in 2369 allowed Starfleet to keep it in indefinite custody to protect the public. "That's just imprisonment without a trial," argued Alyssa Cogley-Shaw, lead attorney for the Soong Foundation. "Since when did Starfleet turn into the Obsidian Order?"

good that it was addressed, and I would still love to see James and Regina freed outright, Picard set up a great way to do so, and ideally STO would be a great place to see that come to fruition. thank you for the link. I love James and Regina, and just saw this video of Daniel Davis talking about his time on the show. https://youtu.be/SLFbC6CeRuw to paraphrase another doctor, my aunt would be so giddy, if they could do this, the rights to the Holes stories are mostly in the public domain now, (since 2014) and the rest will all be in PD by 2023.

Freed?? In that cube, they aren't even aware they ARE prisoners for the simple fact that the 'Universe' they think they are in is procedurally created. So they are not actually prisoners as they enjoy their liberty and are unrestricted in their adventures. They are as much as prisoners in their own Universe as we are to the pull of gravity on the planet.

fred26291

Um leave them in the cube, It will be a much better galaxy without HIM trying to take over and undermine everything constantly.
He will be worse than trying to keep Leeta on a short leash and out of this universe.

redshirtjohnson

leemwatson wrote: »

redshirtjohnson#9017 wrote: »

somtaawkhar wrote: »

According to STO's "Path to 2409" the Moriarty hologram was being kept by Starfleet security, and, upon learning of its existence, the Soong Foundation sued Starfleet to have it turned over to them

https://sto.gamepedia.com/Accolade/Lore

And the legal fight for civil rights for artificial lifeform hit a snag over the hologram known as "Moriarty." Alerted to its existence in a Starfleet computer, the Soong Foundation sued to have the program released into its custody.

Attorneys for Starfleet argued that Moriarty and his companion were a security risk, and that the program's attempt to take over the U.S.S Enterprise-D in 2369 allowed Starfleet to keep it in indefinite custody to protect the public. "That's just imprisonment without a trial," argued Alyssa Cogley-Shaw, lead attorney for the Soong Foundation. "Since when did Starfleet turn into the Obsidian Order?"

good that it was addressed, and I would still love to see James and Regina freed outright, Picard set up a great way to do so, and ideally STO would be a great place to see that come to fruition. thank you for the link. I love James and Regina, and just saw this video of Daniel Davis talking about his time on the show. https://youtu.be/SLFbC6CeRuw to paraphrase another doctor, my aunt would be so giddy, if they could do this, the rights to the Holes stories are mostly in the public domain now, (since 2014) and the rest will all be in PD by 2023.

Freed?? In that cube, they aren't even aware they ARE prisoners for the simple fact that the 'Universe' they think they are in is procedurally created. So they are not actually prisoners as they enjoy their liberty and are unrestricted in their adventures. They are as much as prisoners in their own Universe as we are to the pull of gravity on the planet.

a prison is still a prison even if you can't see the bars. and Picard made a promise to them to try and find a way to free them from the confines of a holodeck. and who is to say that they became aware of the simulation when say the Enterprise D crashed, maybe the crash caused a noticeable flicker in their world sim and they realize they aren't really free. this could go a few ways, if they are really freed they go a revenge campaign destroying Starfleet for the lies, or they give up revenge and move on with their lives and settle down. or we leave them where they are and betray a gentleman's promise. The fleshy avatar form the end of Picard can be the key here, if we give James and the Countess the same treatment maybe they will be content in just really living and not be hell bent on taking over the enterprise.

redshirtjohnson

fred26291#2759 wrote: »

Um leave them in the cube, It will be a much better galaxy without HIM trying to take over and undermine everything constantly.
He will be worse than trying to keep Leeta on a short leash and out of this universe.

so you are saying James Moratory and Countess Regina Barthalomew can never change their ways? Mirror Leeta is a product of the Terran empire's upbringing, James is a logical and sound minded super genius even before getting all the data (slight pun) from the Enterprise D's computer core. and Regian, she wasn't hellbent on universal domination, she just wanted to live and love with James in this brave new world outside of the holodeck.

jonsills

James Moriarty? The villain from the Sherlock Holmes stories? The Napoleon of Crime?? This is your "logical and sound-minded super genius"??

psiameese

leemwatson wrote: »

Freed?? In that cube, they aren't even aware they ARE prisoners for the simple fact that the 'Universe' they think they are in is procedurally created. So they are not actually prisoners as they enjoy their liberty and are unrestricted in their adventures. They are as much as prisoners in their own Universe as we are to the pull of gravity on the planet.

After 46 years in this procedurally created environment, eventually Moriarty will realize that he and the Countess have explored the ruins of the Borg Fifth Dynasty one too many times. He has to know by now doesn't he?

I do think it's great plot hook to expand upon. Finally being released. Did they age at all? Might Moriarty have grown further in intelligence? Does he have important insight into a matter of the 25th century that could prove useful?

fred26291

trusting moriarity with the ability to live peacefully amung us is like asking a crock not to eat you while hes in your back seat on your way to finding him something to eat. *crock is quite hungry and licking his chops ever inch of the journey*

Unknown

This content has been removed.

leemwatson

redshirtjohnson#9017 wrote: »

leemwatson wrote: »

redshirtjohnson#9017 wrote: »

somtaawkhar wrote: »

According to STO's "Path to 2409" the Moriarty hologram was being kept by Starfleet security, and, upon learning of its existence, the Soong Foundation sued Starfleet to have it turned over to them

https://sto.gamepedia.com/Accolade/Lore

And the legal fight for civil rights for artificial lifeform hit a snag over the hologram known as "Moriarty." Alerted to its existence in a Starfleet computer, the Soong Foundation sued to have the program released into its custody.

Attorneys for Starfleet argued that Moriarty and his companion were a security risk, and that the program's attempt to take over the U.S.S Enterprise-D in 2369 allowed Starfleet to keep it in indefinite custody to protect the public. "That's just imprisonment without a trial," argued Alyssa Cogley-Shaw, lead attorney for the Soong Foundation. "Since when did Starfleet turn into the Obsidian Order?"

good that it was addressed, and I would still love to see James and Regina freed outright, Picard set up a great way to do so, and ideally STO would be a great place to see that come to fruition. thank you for the link. I love James and Regina, and just saw this video of Daniel Davis talking about his time on the show. https://youtu.be/SLFbC6CeRuw to paraphrase another doctor, my aunt would be so giddy, if they could do this, the rights to the Holes stories are mostly in the public domain now, (since 2014) and the rest will all be in PD by 2023.

Freed?? In that cube, they aren't even aware they ARE prisoners for the simple fact that the 'Universe' they think they are in is procedurally created. So they are not actually prisoners as they enjoy their liberty and are unrestricted in their adventures. They are as much as prisoners in their own Universe as we are to the pull of gravity on the planet.

a prison is still a prison even if you can't see the bars. and Picard made a promise to them to try and find a way to free them from the confines of a holodeck. and who is to say that they became aware of the simulation when say the Enterprise D crashed, maybe the crash caused a noticeable flicker in their world sim and they realize they aren't really free. this could go a few ways, if they are really freed they go a revenge campaign destroying Starfleet for the lies, or they give up revenge and move on with their lives and settle down. or we leave them where they are and betray a gentleman's promise. The fleshy avatar form the end of Picard can be the key here, if we give James and the Countess the same treatment maybe they will be content in just really living and not be hell bent on taking over the enterprise.

That's actually irrelevant, as the prison is a far better and safe habitat than the real world and the real galaxy. Given Moriarty's pechant for revenge and near infinite IQ, releasing him would be the single most idiotic act ever akin to giving the Borg Queen 29th Century tech in the 25th Century.

redshirtjohnson

jonsills wrote: »

James Moriarty? The villain from the Sherlock Holmes stories? The Napoleon of Crime?? This is your "logical and sound-minded super genius"??

James the Holodeck creation is not the same as the literary creation, he has grown beyond the limitations of the written page, and lack of character development. he is something/somebody completely different and new. they make a point of this in the two episodes.

redshirtjohnson

psiameese wrote: »

leemwatson wrote: »

Freed?? In that cube, they aren't even aware they ARE prisoners for the simple fact that the 'Universe' they think they are in is procedurally created. So they are not actually prisoners as they enjoy their liberty and are unrestricted in their adventures. They are as much as prisoners in their own Universe as we are to the pull of gravity on the planet.

After 46 years in this procedurally created environment, eventually Moriarty will realize that he and the Countess have explored the ruins of the Borg Fifth Dynasty one too many times. He has to know by now doesn't he?

I do think it's great plot hook to expand upon. Finally being released. Did they age at all? Might Moriarty have grown further in intelligence? Does he have important insight into a matter of the 25th century that could prove useful?

Right, this is a story I'd love to see explored in STO, heck even in Trek shows proper it is possible the actors are still with us, and if we say they aged as part of to simulation to make it seem more real, it would explain away the 25+ years of aging they have taken on. there are so many ways we could make this work and it would be amazing. I'm basically handing STO a golden egg of an idea, the ball is in STO/CBS's court now.

redshirtjohnson

fred26291#2759 wrote: »

trusting moriarity with the ability to live peacefully amung us is like asking a crock not to eat you while hes in your back seat on your way to finding him something to eat. *crock is quite hungry and licking his chops ever inch of the journey*

except James knows right from wrong, and good from evil, and can grow as a being, a crock is a animalistic creature of habit, people keep seeing Moriarty as nothing more than what he was written as a foil counterpart to Sherlock Holmes, again in the two episodes they make it clear that James has grown beyond the limited confines of a centuries old fiction writer's words.

redshirtjohnson

leemwatson wrote: »

redshirtjohnson#9017 wrote: »

leemwatson wrote: »

redshirtjohnson#9017 wrote: »

somtaawkhar wrote: »

According to STO's "Path to 2409" the Moriarty hologram was being kept by Starfleet security, and, upon learning of its existence, the Soong Foundation sued Starfleet to have it turned over to them

https://sto.gamepedia.com/Accolade/Lore

And the legal fight for civil rights for artificial lifeform hit a snag over the hologram known as "Moriarty." Alerted to its existence in a Starfleet computer, the Soong Foundation sued to have the program released into its custody.

Attorneys for Starfleet argued that Moriarty and his companion were a security risk, and that the program's attempt to take over the U.S.S Enterprise-D in 2369 allowed Starfleet to keep it in indefinite custody to protect the public. "That's just imprisonment without a trial," argued Alyssa Cogley-Shaw, lead attorney for the Soong Foundation. "Since when did Starfleet turn into the Obsidian Order?"

good that it was addressed, and I would still love to see James and Regina freed outright, Picard set up a great way to do so, and ideally STO would be a great place to see that come to fruition. thank you for the link. I love James and Regina, and just saw this video of Daniel Davis talking about his time on the show. https://youtu.be/SLFbC6CeRuw to paraphrase another doctor, my aunt would be so giddy, if they could do this, the rights to the Holes stories are mostly in the public domain now, (since 2014) and the rest will all be in PD by 2023.

Freed?? In that cube, they aren't even aware they ARE prisoners for the simple fact that the 'Universe' they think they are in is procedurally created. So they are not actually prisoners as they enjoy their liberty and are unrestricted in their adventures. They are as much as prisoners in their own Universe as we are to the pull of gravity on the planet.

a prison is still a prison even if you can't see the bars. and Picard made a promise to them to try and find a way to free them from the confines of a holodeck. and who is to say that they became aware of the simulation when say the Enterprise D crashed, maybe the crash caused a noticeable flicker in their world sim and they realize they aren't really free. this could go a few ways, if they are really freed they go a revenge campaign destroying Starfleet for the lies, or they give up revenge and move on with their lives and settle down. or we leave them where they are and betray a gentleman's promise. The fleshy avatar form the end of Picard can be the key here, if we give James and the Countess the same treatment maybe they will be content in just really living and not be hell bent on taking over the enterprise.

That's actually irrelevant, as the prison is a far better and safe habitat than the real world and the real galaxy. Given Moriarty's pechant for revenge and near infinite IQ, releasing him would be the single most idiotic act ever akin to giving the Borg Queen 29th Century tech in the 25th Century.

letting that 29th Century hybrid Drone basically kill himself was a very hard thing to watch. and we again come to the "James Moriarty is nothing but evil" argument, does nobody here have a single little gray cell in their body that can see that James can grow and become more and not give into any underlining need for revenge or to cause chaos. I fear humanity more and more every day when we can't see a way forward in growth of being something better. everyone seems hooked on the James Moriarty is nothing but what Sir Arthur Conan Doyle wrote him as and anything else isn't canon and anybody who suggests the Star Trek character can't be anything else needs to be stoned to death is by far a world I don't want to live in.

nixie50

I think they would be fine if they were given android bodies, no animosity, since the promise was kept.

redshirtjohnson

nixie50 wrote: »

I think they would be fine if they were given android bodies, no animosity, since the promise was kept.

what ever you want to call the flesh avatar/golem that Soji Asha and Dahj Asha, (and later Picard) are would be a great way to go, we already know The Soong Foundation partitioned for the return of the unit housing James and Regina, so it is possible they won that case and have it somewhere at Coppelius Station. it would be a great way to add in playable android race to the game. maybe as a new faction, they could make their choices on if they want to go fed or KDF along the way if need be.