Odyssey-class now canon?

nickcastleton

A recent privew of the NEW note NEW not old coutdown comic, for Picard has shown the ship he was in command in.
https://comicbook.com/startrek/amp/2019/11/27/star-trek-picard-new-ship-odyssey-class-verity-enterprise-f/?fbclid=IwAR0TGEw9fbm1bRRXLo_JcR-vNH5F5bcXjJuszuE6FMoOAd3zbOeBlzgYVKo

Could this mean we may see the Odyssey class on screen?

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willamsheridan

valoreah wrote: »

Possibly - if it were to appear on-screen in the show, then yes it would be canon.

this is an official comic. why isn't that canon?

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khan5000

Also the comic is written by the Picard showrunner.

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nrobbiec

Didn't they say the old countdown was canon too? Comics and tie in media should be taken with a slight grain of salt. Its nice to see it though.

Of course STO should take it with a grain of salt or else they will have to remove one of their characters.

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starkaos

nrobbiec wrote: »

Didn't they say the old countdown was canon too? Comics and tie in media should be taken with a slight grain of salt. Its nice to see it though.

Of course STO should take it with a grain of salt or else they will have to remove one of their characters.

Which is why lots of fans believe that only what is shown in the TV series and movies is hard canon while everything else is soft canon or non-canon.

markhawkman

reyan01 wrote: »

Wait - that's the USS Verity pictured..... but it has the USS Odyssey's registry number....

NCC-97000? *looks it up* hunh, so it is. interesting choice.

mustrumridcully0

The only previous Oddysee-named ship we've seen in Star Trek was the Galayxy Class that got destroyed in the first Jem'Hadar encounter. Shouldn't a new Oddysee have the same registry number as that one? I have trouble believing they already had registry numbers in that number range, though it's possible we can never see the actual registry number in the episode.

markhawkman

mustrumridcully0 wrote: »

The only previous Oddysee-named ship we've seen in Star Trek was the Galayxy Class that got destroyed in the first Jem'Hadar encounter. Shouldn't a new Oddysee have the same registry number as that one? I have trouble believing they already had registry numbers in that number range, though it's possible we can never see the actual registry number in the episode.

I looked it up on MA, and there have been registries well over 80,000.

khan5000

> @mustrumridcully0 said:
> The only previous Oddysee-named ship we've seen in Star Trek was the Galayxy Class that got destroyed in the first Jem'Hadar encounter. Shouldn't a new Oddysee have the same registry number as that one? I have trouble believing they already had registry numbers in that number range, though it's possible we can never see the actual registry number in the episode.

I think the maintaining of registry was a rare thing. DS9’s Defiant didn’t keep the registry of the Constitution Class Defiant.

captainoblivous

Comics aren't canon and they never have been. It's a huge can of worms, better to just leave them separate to do their own things, so that they might excel in their own media. I.e. what works well for a comic won't work well for an MMO, or a movie, etc etc.

That may not matter, however, given a recent tweet by geko on the subject of "canon".
Essentially, Geko stated that canon didn't matter to him, flat out stating that it was "fluid".

sthe91

captainoblivous wrote: »

Comics aren't canon and they never have been. It's a huge can of worms, better to just leave them separate to do their own things, so that they might excel in their own media. I.e. what works well for a comic won't work well for an MMO, or a movie, etc etc.

That may not matter, however, given a recent tweet by geko on the subject of "canon".
Essentially, Geko stated that canon didn't matter to him, flat out stating that it was "fluid".

CaptainGeko saying that canon was "fluid" does not mean that canon does not matter to him. Again, it helps to have the quote in its proper context so get to such a conclusion otherwise it is misleading.

starswordc

azrael605 wrote: »

Per CBS all of the IDW tie ins to the new Trek shows are fully canon. So yes this is canon as only CBS decides canon.

Not accusing you of lying, but I keep seeing this claim (ditto the tie-ins for the KT films), and I keep waiting for somebody to provide an actual link to where somebody associated with CBS or Paramount said it.

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lordgyor

I remember we heard that there was going to be some kind of flash back to when Picard was Admiral, which means this ship WILL be on TV at some point.

khan5000

While the comics isn’t canon...Kirsten Beyer, who wrote this comic is a staff writer on Picard. She’s also the person who coordinates the tie-ins with novels, comics and video games. It’s not hard to see that this could become canon.

lordgyor

> @captainoblivous said:
> Comics aren't canon and they never have been. It's a huge can of worms, better to just leave them separate to do their own things, so that they might excel in their own media. I.e. what works well for a comic won't work well for an MMO, or a movie, etc etc.
>
> That may not matter, however, given a recent tweet by geko on the subject of "canon".
> Essentially, Geko stated that canon didn't matter to him, flat out stating that it was "fluid".

That depends entirely on the IP, for example its the novels, RPG sourcebooks , and comics that dictates canon in the Forgotten Realms, but video games usually aren't considered canan (the upcoming Baldur's Gate 3 CRPG by Larian Studios might be an exception)
and there are no FR movies and TV shows (although apparently a Forgotten Realms movie is on the works, but that will not change the canon nature of FR novels, because anyone who tries to decanonize FR novels will have to go into hiding for the rest of their lives).

jonsills

So, one must assume that the first prototype for the Odyssey-class was rushed into service in order to assist with the evacuation of ch'Rihan and ch'Havran (okay, Romulus and Remus, but my headcanon includes Duane's novels). The first ship to leave dock isn't always the class-namer; what with construction delays and learning events, it's starting to look like the USS Gerald R. Ford might wind up being the second or third ship of her class to launch, rather than the first.

"Canon" in this event must be up to the IP holder, because after fifty-three years of Trek in various forms including seven series, fourteen movies, several video games, and innumerable novels, there are waaaay too many contradictory tales floating about. (Heck, if you define "canon" strictly enough, and some people here do, TOS contradicted itself on at least nine separate occasions.) We don't exactly have a Council of Nice to thrash all this out, after all.

angrytarg

It makes sense to keep canon fairly limited. Star Trek is, first and foremost, a TV show. The likelyhood that people watching Picard or any other show have seen one of the predecessors is much higher than them knowing tie-in media.

Remember, 'canon' in this context is not some intangible mystery. It's whole purpose is to establish a common background for future works to refer to. The shows are pretty much what is considered 'things that happened', every incarnation of Trek will consider the events of the shows as history or future. Events of media outside of the shows are usually not considered essential and usually ignored. That is all what canon means here.

If the Oddy becomes canon that'd be quite something. I wonder whether it's creator, the winner from Cryptic's contest, receives any royalties 😃

nickcastleton

jonsills wrote: »

So, one must assume that the first prototype for the Odyssey-class was rushed into service in order to assist with the evacuation of ch'Rihan and ch'Havran (okay, Romulus and Remus, but my headcanon includes Duane's novels). The first ship to leave dock isn't always the class-namer; what with construction delays and learning events, it's starting to look like the USS Gerald R. Ford might wind up being the second or third ship of her class to launch, rather than the first.

Not really i mean just because sto has the Odyssey class come out in 2409 doesnt mean picard has to, the class could have come into service a few years ago before the comics or that very year.

starkaos

nickcastleton wrote: »

jonsills wrote: »

So, one must assume that the first prototype for the Odyssey-class was rushed into service in order to assist with the evacuation of ch'Rihan and ch'Havran (okay, Romulus and Remus, but my headcanon includes Duane's novels). The first ship to leave dock isn't always the class-namer; what with construction delays and learning events, it's starting to look like the USS Gerald R. Ford might wind up being the second or third ship of her class to launch, rather than the first.

Not really i mean just because sto has the Odyssey class come out in 2409 doesnt mean picard has to, the class could have come into service a few years ago before the comics or that very year.

It looks like the Picard series and STO are set in different realities since the problem is that the Picard series is set in 2399 with Picard commanding the USS Verity in 2385. That would make the Odyssey class 25 years old in STO. The original mission where we received the Odyssey Star Cruiser in 2012 for a limited time says it is a new class not a class that is 25 years old.

<rank> <name>, this is a great day for Starfleet!

The team at Utopia Planitia is in the final stages of work on the new Odyssey Class, and she is ready for testing.

This is a monumental achievement, <rank> - the Odyssey Class is the largest ship we've ever created, and she will carry us into a bright new future of exploration, boldly going where no ship has gone before.

Admiral Quinn asked me to nominate an officer to take an Odyssey prototype out of dry dock and on her first shakedown cruise. I can think of no finer officer for that duty than you.

Treat her well, <rank>, and she'll always bring you home.

khan5000

Depends if STO keeps that the Oddy launched in 2409 or follow (presumably) the series and say it was around in 2385

psiameese

Trick being that the Odyssey-class design was the result of that Design the Enterprise-F contest. All those years ago. The winning design is property of CBS by way of Cryptic Studios. So CBS can do with it whatever it wants to. Be that in a comic or television series. We may find that this is just one of many chronology adjustments to be made to our game. To accommodate Picard.

starkaos

khan5000 wrote: »

Depends if STO keeps that the Oddy launched in 2409 or follow (presumably) the series and say it was around in 2385

Which is what I don't want to see. Star Trek has numerous alternate realities and it makes everything easier to set the novels, STO, and the shows in their own separate realities. The new Star Trek series should be free to take inspiration from other Star Trek sources, but never be forced into making STO the future of Star Trek.

khan5000

starkaos wrote: »

khan5000 wrote: »

Depends if STO keeps that the Oddy launched in 2409 or follow (presumably) the series and say it was around in 2385

Which is what I don't want to see. Star Trek has numerous alternate realities and it makes everything easier to set the novels, STO, and the shows in their own separate realities. The new Star Trek series should be free to take inspiration from other Star Trek sources, but never be forced into making STO the future of Star Trek.

I don’t see how putting the Oddy in a comic is forcing a tv show into making STO the future

starkaos

khan5000 wrote: »

starkaos wrote: »

khan5000 wrote: »

Depends if STO keeps that the Oddy launched in 2409 or follow (presumably) the series and say it was around in 2385

Which is what I don't want to see. Star Trek has numerous alternate realities and it makes everything easier to set the novels, STO, and the shows in their own separate realities. The new Star Trek series should be free to take inspiration from other Star Trek sources, but never be forced into making STO the future of Star Trek.

I don’t see how putting the Oddy in a comic is forcing a tv show into making STO the future

It is changing the launch date of the Odyssey class in STO to 2385 instead of 2409 that is part of making STO the future. STO has a timeline from Nemesis to 2409 that establishes the setting of STO. 2399 is when the Klingon/Gorn War started and the I.K.S. Kang reveals that the Undine are controlling the Gorn Hegemony. Without the Klingon/Gorn War, there is no Klingon/Federation War. So if CBS wants to make STO part of the new Star Trek franchise, then either they have to restrict the creativity of the creators of the TV series or they have to completely change a lot of missions in STO. STO should always exist in the same state as the Kelvin movies, in its own reality.

angrytarg

The show might not go there if it is set and concluded before the war. On the other hoof it makes sense to change the age of the Oddyssey class. Due to STOs nature as a MMO with collectible ships we are to believe that the Oddy is replaced by a new [T6] class (not a refit) hardly a year later. In STO, countless new ship classes are thrown out in a few months not to speak of all the wars and catastrophic events happening at the same time, including the destruction of ESD and the fleet's infrastructure. STO's "it happens all in 2409/10" is really stretching it. It'd make sense to adjust it.

nickcastleton

angrytarg wrote: »

The show might not go there if it is set and concluded before the war. On the other hoof it makes sense to change the age of the Oddyssey class. Due to STOs nature as a MMO with collectible ships we are to believe that the Oddy is replaced by a new [T6] class (not a refit) hardly a year later. In STO, countless new ship classes are thrown out in a few months not to speak of all the wars and catastrophic events happening at the same time, including the destruction of ESD and the fleet's infrastructure. STO's "it happens all in 2409/10" is really stretching it. It'd make sense to adjust it.

Agreed there have been topics about how it makes little sence for all this to happen in two years whith people saying we should move on to 2411 so if Picard wants to make the origional odyssey class come out 25 years before sto imo its fine.

Plus just because the ship could become canon doesnt mean sto will.