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So what is coming in place of the Foundry?
sirsitsalot
Member Posts: 2,803 Arc User
So yeah... What is Cryptic working on that will render the Foundry un-necessary? I mean, when it worked, Foundry provided the game with a steady stream of playable content that Cryptic didn't have to make. Now all playable content will be entirely on them to make. Unless they have something they will be adding to the game that will provide a constant source of engaging content that will run automatically.
To those of you who will be missing the Foundry, What could they add to the game that would make you miss it less?
To those of you who will be missing the Foundry, What could they add to the game that would make you miss it less?
"There can be no meeting of the minds between two parties
if both parties are not willing to meet in the middle."
-Ambassador Samuel J. Stone
if both parties are not willing to meet in the middle."
-Ambassador Samuel J. Stone
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Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Yea! I can hardly wait for Pahvo Nebula Rescue, Pahvo Assault, Khitomer in Pahvo and Brotherhood of the Pahvo.
We shal also stay tuned for exiting new rewards like [Pahvo Rotgut] and the infamous [Pahvo Negotiator].
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Fleet Admiral Ventaxa Proxmire, U.S.S. Shaka Walls Fell
Blog: http://www.sarbonn.com/?page_id=1990
Foundry series: Bob From Accounting & For the Sake of the Empire
^^^
Stuff that doesn't make sense, followed by more gamble boxes, maybe a few posts from me about wanting the Typhoon Class and then more gamble boxes.
As much as I love the idea of the Foundry, the truth is that I barely used it. I think the last year I might have played something like 2 foundry missions, and both were grinders. I think there are certainly players that play a lot of Foundry missions, but I am afraid they won't be the number of players that make or break the game.
That is the thing to fundamentally understand - Cryptic isn't going to remove something from the game that is seriously impactful to their bottom line. Especially not a feature they all loved having implemented.
Of course, they could completely underestimate the impact of the foundry, but they have been keeping this game around for 9 years now. They might actually know what they are doing.
Posts like this will obviously remain popular and be the dominant form of entertainment for the same players it was before.
I been hanging around you too often.. I was about to make almost this exact same post.
Imagine playing something like Overwatch and you've got your Ult ready which will save the match and get you into the next competitive rank:
Press Q.
Nothing happens.
Press Q again,
still nothing.
Press and Hold Q.
Power begins to glow
........
........
........
........
........
5 seconds later,
activates.
Does nothing because by now you're ether:
1. Dead.
2. Out of position.
DEFEAT.
game engine from the moment of the creation of the foundry till now has changed so much that the amount of time necessary to adjust foundry to be workable with the present game is too long, and cryptic is planning or is in process of upgrading game engine again, so this task is becoming a lost resource for cryptic.
this is an official explanation, nothing will come to replace foundry. it was said they will be adding additional content to the summer event, and adding a new halloween event and similar stuff.
The Foundry breaks almost every medium-to-large update, often even on the minor ones. I'm shocked they kept it running as long as it was.
I hate to see it go, I really enjoyed it. And I definitely think the game will see a decent-sized player drop from the Foundry creator and RP communities. But unfortunately that loss will almost definitely be offset by the amount of new players coming in thanks to all the Trek shows in the works, so it wasn't worth supporting anymore.
Let's not forget, this was helped along by the fact the rewards for Foundry missions we not good. I mean, a mission had to be played 15 times, by 15 different people, to get out of reviews, and then you were lucky if it even qualified for a normal reward. Which was just exp and dil.
You two are the polar opposite sides of a spectrum. You are as far as possible over to one side.. he is as far as possible over to another.
As to be expected, it just makes you both equally wrong. He is trivializing the issue and you are massively over dramatizing it.
That's pretty cool.
When I read it I found it sad and beautiful at the same time. In the end yea man, it’s pretty its cool what he makes of it.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Been playing MMOs since they were MUDs/MOOs/MUSHs.
With every change, 'the game is dying' and 'the best thing ever' posts proliferate.
IMO/IME, some people simply acquire thier dopamone hits off of Drama.
The entire 'white knight' moniker is just as laughable as an insult attempt as is 'troll'.
Personally, I pity people that cannot control thier emotions enough to realize that it's just a video game, for entertainment.
Here though, we add a huge helping of 'Fandom', which just adds more (IMO useless) Drama.
Yes, the game changed.
Yes, the lights are still on.
No, nothing lasts forever.
When a game is no longer enjoyable, move on to a new one, why all the useless Drama?
Why activily attack those who have not yet explored the game to thier own satisfaction, or who *gasp*, view the world differently?
Why the atempts to ruin the fun for others?
I even agree the story about the Red Shirts in a Wormhole is great, I make my own stories in games as well.
Adding in the bitterness just makes it taste bad to me though, I prefer to live life in a positive fashion.
I get called an 'up guy' a lot and it is not a compliment many times.
*shrug
Except that even losing a sizable chunk of a minority can be a hit to a game operating in a competitive industry subject to threshold dynamics and with players sensitive to trajectories, though do go on with your reductive minimization of negative events happening around STO (per internet conceptualization of "business is business", ie. circular reasoning.)
Certainly the game isn't going to die as a result of losing the Foundry but "non-factor" this ain't (by any logical means). The Foundry supplied a sizable chunk of the community with a long-term creative and practical outlet which helped reinforce both playtime statistics, player investment in the game (through psychologically sustainable non-skinner boxes.) Even if the majority of players didn't play the Foundry they benefited from the primary effects (see. player retention) and interactions of having the Foundry in game. This is pretty damn basic and these factors were a unique element to STO/NW that helped their communities grow in spite of Cryptic's limited resources (see. small studio), intensity of competition within the F2P MMO genre, and where STO in particular started out.
Cryptic would replace or fix it if they could, but they can't because neither Cryptic or STO are in a place where comparable investment to building the foundry can be justified. It took years in the first place and the same investment now (at this point in STO/NW's lifecycle) isn't likely to pay off even versus the downside of removal (categorically, that level of investment for single features isn't being made in this game.) It's better for Cryptic to put that effort into new projects (investing in growth) and minor updates to the core game (holding STO's ground as opposed to growth.) This isn't maintenance mode but you can see where this trajectory eventually leads as the level of investment required to keep STO current with the market eventually outpaces Cryptic's willingness and ability to supply it. Ie. what happened with the Foundry technicals but in terms of MMO economics, though what's learning about developmental systems from active examples?
Basically they've just got to take the hit. It's a very painful situation for both the devs and community (you heard Kael, now look to your argument) though its one that a game at this point in its life cylce can't simply spin another feature up to compensate. Review the Ten Forward Weekly livestream if you don't appreciate this fact (grow your understanding from counter examples.)
The Foundry was special because of the UGC connection but it was also special because in several respects it outpaced official development through communal problem solving and iterative learning. Ie. we learned how to work with the format in ways that Cryptic (because of longer lag times in production processes and fewer content designers than existed active Foundry authors) hasn't caught up with yet in official content. Pacing, emphasis, and story/combat balance (to me) feels suboptimal, official character arcs are mechanically rudimentary, and there's some definite decisions (like fully voicing all dialog in spite of the acclimatization forced by boffs and level design practices) which I think places significant constraints on Cryptic further refining their approach to missions (minor expansions on the format requires a lot more attenuated investment.)
Basically what I'd like to see (and what I think would most compensate for losing the Foundry) is a direct investment in narrative content that can be produced more cheaply and with greater character depth. Optional dialog and level building like mine/Greendragoon/JohnnySnowball/Starfarertheta is the most immediate way to do this, though I think they could find a great integration with a mechanical revamp of social/adventures zones to host this kind of content and allow for minor mission additions utilizing existing spaces that could help fill the gap between more expansive official episodes. Plus it gives a format to fall back on with future cut-backs in STO's level of development (putting everything on official episodes is not sustainable, long-term. Eventually the release frequency is going to fall below player engagement threshold. Having something else to keep players going with the narrative will help set that point back if not provide a long-term stable strategy.)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
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Your question means you completely misunderstand the situation. The reason the foundry is being removed has nothing to do with anything being developed. I suggest you read the news post they made, because the reason is clearly stated.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Lesson: people cared about the Foundry because in part because it was utilizing character dynamics and narrative arcs which elicit that level of deep emotional investment. People care about official missions too but much of that comes through integration with elements taken from the series (which had greater opportunity for narrative expansion given the format of other media.) Ie. context, the in-built arcs are (relatively speaking) fairly rudimentary. This works in the context of cross-marketing STO with Star Trek (hit the high points for cameos most efficiently, also be a Star Trek game.) However, it leaves a niche open that Foundry had filled for some players (spurring investment without skinner-box mechanics.)
Cryptic could address that by applying lessons learned (for example) regarding the use of characters and character interactions in mission structure even if there isn't any plan to replace or fix the Foundry system. This could include missions with different format and/or emphasis (most extreme case of "learning from the Foundry") or simply small adjustments in character roles and dialog structure that help bring out more with the limited space available. None of this would make the Foundry unnecessary (see. above mod hat) or even require more than a refinement of approaches but it would provide something of what it did in-game (helping to retain as much of its audience as possible and make the most of the resource they have with the Foundry community.)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Also Overwatch is a class-based FPS, not an MMO, and FPS games tend to show your actions client-side before doing the handshake. I used to play Rainbow Six with some buddies and we noticed that any time two of us saw each other in a hall face to face one of us would see themselves firing bullets that didn't exist server-side. IE: I push the button to shoot a guy, my game client shows me firing my gun and tells the server, the server checks to see if you shot the guy, THEN I see if I actually shot the guy. I'm guessing if that happened in Overwatch you'd see yourself use your Ult, but no one else would and you'd die instead of killing the enemy team. Seriously, there's a reason the official e-sport OW events use carefully curated play environments.
So yeah, if that's your idea of "perfect"... I've got a lovely summer cottage tucked away on the secluded side of Lynx's Fold to sell you.
My character Tsin'xing
My sarcastic answer tho is "obviously more RD pack ships because "CrYpTiC nEeDs To KeEp ThE lIgHtS oN" as justification for $300+ ships"
And it's going to be hard to separate any apparent increase from a statistically significant one from background patch note levels. It's not something the community will likely ever be able to support or refute (so, let's definitely not go down that rabbit hole.) Again that's why my focus is what do with game design as opposed to what to do with systems. Systems require a lot of investment (not on the table) but STO's format offers untapped flexibility that they could start playing with more given the ecosystem shift on PC (adjustments to which would also benefit consoles.) There is a much more easily quantifiable need for "alternative narrative content" (ie. other stuff besides rote missions) without the foundry filling that niche (also exploration, which the Foundry had been covering since the old system's removal) so maybe over the long term Cryptic starts exploring ideas more than they've been exploring mechanical add-ons (add to this; fleet holdings, battlezones, and adventure zones arguably approaching points of diminishing returns. All told there seems to be a lot of convergent pressure on the team to start playing in small ways with mission/zone format and emphasis.)
And as a sidebar to "what could Cryptic add to the game that's not a 1:1 replacement for the Foundry but could help retain Foundry-like dynamics," community inspired characters. There's recent precedent and I think that doff/boff/background cameos such as Kimala, Amanda Barclay, Fluffy, and/or Admiral Aaron would be a good gesture to those affected by Sunset and something Cryptic could use occasionally over the long term as a spotlighting tool for players and creative efforts (ex. Daddy Klingon, Ruinn "Jazz hands" Fane) in addition to or accompanying screenshot or writing challenges. There's a lot of directions Cryptic could take here and they would seem feasible and in line with both what we did with the Foundry and other events Kael likes to hold.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
What about this ones?
Battle of Pahvo
Pahvo Disconnected
Pahvo Assault (ground)
Counterpahvo
Crystalline Pahvo
Pahvo Found
Days of Pahvo
Defense of Pahvo One
Federation Pahvo Alert
Pahvo Kills
Pahvo Sphere
Pahvo Onslaught
Infected: The Pahvo
Pahvo Imperial Minefield
Pahvo Fleet Defense
Storming Pahvo
Pahvo Tribulations
Pahvo Front
Pahvo Assault (space)
Pahvo Shuttle Event
Pahvo: Ensnared
Pahvo Cycle