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So what is coming in place of the Foundry?

So yeah... What is Cryptic working on that will render the Foundry un-necessary? I mean, when it worked, Foundry provided the game with a steady stream of playable content that Cryptic didn't have to make. Now all playable content will be entirely on them to make. Unless they have something they will be adding to the game that will provide a constant source of engaging content that will run automatically.

To those of you who will be missing the Foundry, What could they add to the game that would make you miss it less?
When it comes to MMOs, I wear prescription glasses. Whether or not they are rose-tinted is beside the point.
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  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    Reskined TFOs on an endless cycle. Complete the transformation into a mobile game.
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    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
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  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,072 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    artan42 wrote: »
    Reskined TFOs on an endless cycle.

    Yea! I can hardly wait for Pahvo Nebula Rescue, Pahvo Assault, Khitomer in Pahvo and Brotherhood of the Pahvo. :(

    We shal also stay tuned for exiting new rewards like [Pahvo Rotgut] and the infamous [Pahvo Negotiator]. :D
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  • littlesarbonnlittlesarbonn Member Posts: 478 Arc User
    I seriously doubt they've even given any thought to replacing the Foundry with any meaningful content.
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  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 8,968 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    So yeah... What is Cryptic working on that will render the Foundry un-necessary? I mean, when it worked, Foundry provided the game with a steady stream of playable content that Cryptic didn't have to make. Now all playable content will be entirely on them to make. Unless they have something they will be adding to the game that will provide a constant source of engaging content that will run automatically.
    Nothing.

    Given that only a minority of players actually used the Foundry, the Foundry's "steady stream of content" wasn't something the majority of STO players depending on to keep playing the game. Even when it comes to the people who did use it, I doubt the majority of them considered it wholly vital to their desire to play STO. So the need to replace it with anything is very likely a non-factor to Cryptic.
  • thay8472thay8472 Member Posts: 5,901 Arc User
    artan42 wrote: »
    Reskined TFOs on an endless cycle. Complete the transformation into a mobile game.


    ^^^

    Stuff that doesn't make sense, followed by more gamble boxes, maybe a few posts from me about wanting the Typhoon Class and then more gamble boxes.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,894 Arc User
    Nothing specific. Losing the Foundry will free up resources, but not particularly in the content creation area. We might see more technical improvements to the game.

    As much as I love the idea of the Foundry, the truth is that I barely used it. I think the last year I might have played something like 2 foundry missions, and both were grinders. I think there are certainly players that play a lot of Foundry missions, but I am afraid they won't be the number of players that make or break the game.

    That is the thing to fundamentally understand - Cryptic isn't going to remove something from the game that is seriously impactful to their bottom line. Especially not a feature they all loved having implemented.
    Of course, they could completely underestimate the impact of the foundry, but they have been keeping this game around for 9 years now. They might actually know what they are doing.
    thay8472 wrote: »
    artan42 wrote: »
    Reskined TFOs on an endless cycle. Complete the transformation into a mobile game.


    ^^^

    Stuff that doesn't make sense, followed by more gamble boxes, maybe a few posts from me about wanting the Typhoon Class and then more gamble boxes.
    Posts like this will obviously remain popular and be the dominant form of entertainment for the same players it was before.
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  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,037 Arc User
    artan42 wrote: »
    Reskined TFOs on an endless cycle.

    Yea! I can hardly wait for Pahvo Nebula Rescue, Pahvo Assault, Khitomer in Pahvo and Brotherhood of the Pahvo. :(

    We shal also stay tuned for exiting new rewards like [Pahvo Rotgut] and the infamous [Pahvo Negotiator]. :D

    I been hanging around you too often.. I was about to make almost this exact same post. :lol:
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  • kronin#4685 kronin Member Posts: 325 Arc User
    I think they should've found ways to improve the foundry. I would've used it a lot more if a few things were different, but I guess it's a moot point now.
  • alcyoneserenealcyoneserene Member Posts: 2,228 Arc User
    Nothing specific. Losing the Foundry will free up resources, but not particularly in the content creation area. We might see more technical improvements to the game.
    Somehow fixing space and ground powers activation will still be beyond Cryptic to fix, something basically every other online MMO already does perfectly.

    Imagine playing something like Overwatch and you've got your Ult ready which will save the match and get you into the next competitive rank:
    Press Q.
    Nothing happens.
    Press Q again,
    still nothing.

    Press and Hold Q.
    Power begins to glow
    ........
    ........
    ........
    ........
    ........
    5 seconds later,
    activates.
    Does nothing because by now you're ether:
    1. Dead.
    2. Out of position.

    DEFEAT.

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  • hesuspino72#6173 hesuspino72 Member Posts: 15 Arc User
    the foundry was made by 2 people that are not working for cryptic anymore.
    game engine from the moment of the creation of the foundry till now has changed so much that the amount of time necessary to adjust foundry to be workable with the present game is too long, and cryptic is planning or is in process of upgrading game engine again, so this task is becoming a lost resource for cryptic.

    this is an official explanation, nothing will come to replace foundry. it was said they will be adding additional content to the summer event, and adding a new halloween event and similar stuff.
  • chipg7chipg7 Member Posts: 1,568 Arc User
    It'd be nice if they did replace it with a similar user-generated content system, but it doesn't seem like they will.

    The Foundry breaks almost every medium-to-large update, often even on the minor ones. I'm shocked they kept it running as long as it was.

    I hate to see it go, I really enjoyed it. And I definitely think the game will see a decent-sized player drop from the Foundry creator and RP communities. But unfortunately that loss will almost definitely be offset by the amount of new players coming in thanks to all the Trek shows in the works, so it wasn't worth supporting anymore.
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  • trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,839 Arc User
    So yeah... What is Cryptic working on that will render the Foundry un-necessary? I mean, when it worked, Foundry provided the game with a steady stream of playable content that Cryptic didn't have to make. Now all playable content will be entirely on them to make. Unless they have something they will be adding to the game that will provide a constant source of engaging content that will run automatically.
    Nothing.

    Given that only a minority of players actually used the Foundry, the Foundry's "steady stream of content" wasn't something the majority of STO players depending on to keep playing the game. Even when it comes to the people who did use it, I doubt the majority of them considered it wholly vital to their desire to play STO. So the need to replace it with anything is very likely a non-factor to Cryptic.

    Let's not forget, this was helped along by the fact the rewards for Foundry missions we not good. I mean, a mission had to be played 15 times, by 15 different people, to get out of reviews, and then you were lucky if it even qualified for a normal reward. Which was just exp and dil.
    Mm5NeXy.gif
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    The current legal climate after that certain thing in the EU does not seem very conducive to user-generated content in general.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,037 Arc User
    So yeah... What is Cryptic working on that will render the Foundry un-necessary? I mean, when it worked, Foundry provided the game with a steady stream of playable content that Cryptic didn't have to make. Now all playable content will be entirely on them to make. Unless they have something they will be adding to the game that will provide a constant source of engaging content that will run automatically.
    Nothing.

    Given that only a minority of players actually used the Foundry, the Foundry's "steady stream of content" wasn't something the majority of STO players depending on to keep playing the game. Even when it comes to the people who did use it, I doubt the majority of them considered it wholly vital to their desire to play STO. So the need to replace it with anything is very likely a non-factor to Cryptic.

    Complete bollocks as usual. Don't you ever get tired of white knighting? Try speaking the truth for once, you'll end up with bars like me but at least you'll feel better,

    You two are the polar opposite sides of a spectrum. You are as far as possible over to one side.. he is as far as possible over to another.

    As to be expected, it just makes you both equally wrong. He is trivializing the issue and you are massively over dramatizing it.
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    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,037 Arc User
    we kind of kept the fires burning, our guild is called Skyrim Red Shirts, the back story is a group of Starfeet officers were pulled through a wormhole and crashlanded on Nirn and now have to try to survive on this hostile world without living up to their guild namesake too often lol.

    :lol:

    That's pretty cool.
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    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,072 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    we kind of kept the fires burning, our guild is called Skyrim Red Shirts, the back story is a group of Starfeet officers were pulled through a wormhole and crashlanded on Nirn and now have to try to survive on this hostile world without living up to their guild namesake too often lol.

    :lol:

    That's pretty cool.

    When I read it I found it sad and beautiful at the same time. In the end yea man, it’s pretty its cool what he makes of it. :)
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    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
    Bring it on
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    wishful thinking is not really a reliable source
  • majorprankstermajorprankster Member Posts: 25 Arc User
    It's as if no one has the Internet and access to years and years of gaming history.

    Been playing MMOs since they were MUDs/MOOs/MUSHs.

    With every change, 'the game is dying' and 'the best thing ever' posts proliferate.

    IMO/IME, some people simply acquire thier dopamone hits off of Drama.

    The entire 'white knight' moniker is just as laughable as an insult attempt as is 'troll'.

    Personally, I pity people that cannot control thier emotions enough to realize that it's just a video game, for entertainment.

    Here though, we add a huge helping of 'Fandom', which just adds more (IMO useless) Drama.

    Yes, the game changed.
    Yes, the lights are still on.
    No, nothing lasts forever.

    When a game is no longer enjoyable, move on to a new one, why all the useless Drama?
    Why activily attack those who have not yet explored the game to thier own satisfaction, or who *gasp*, view the world differently?
    Why the atempts to ruin the fun for others?

    I even agree the story about the Red Shirts in a Wormhole is great, I make my own stories in games as well.
    Adding in the bitterness just makes it taste bad to me though, I prefer to live life in a positive fashion.

    I get called an 'up guy' a lot and it is not a compliment many times.
    *shrug
  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 2,338 Arc User
    Guys... Please... I did not start this thread to continue arguing about the decision to remove the Foundry. The decision is made. Foundry is going away. None of us are going to be able to change that FACT. The sooner we accept it and move on, the better it will be for us. Yes, it will be missed. But the game itself will still remain.

    Futhermore, this thread is directed to those who WILL miss the foundry and is intended to provide an opportunity to tell Cryptic what they feel could be added to the game that will make the absence of the Foundry less painful to them.

    If you didn't really use the foundry or don't really care that it is going away, then that is fine. But you do not have to post stuff in an attempt to invalidate differing opinions.

    I have stuff to do before I get ready to go to work, but I will come back in here later and post about what I think could be realistically added to the game in the wake of the Foundry Sunset that might improve things.

    Until then... Peace

    \\//,
    When it comes to MMOs, I wear prescription glasses. Whether or not they are rose-tinted is beside the point.
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,611 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    So yeah... What is Cryptic working on that will render the Foundry un-necessary? I mean, when it worked, Foundry provided the game with a steady stream of playable content that Cryptic didn't have to make. Now all playable content will be entirely on them to make. Unless they have something they will be adding to the game that will provide a constant source of engaging content that will run automatically.
    Nothing.

    Given that only a minority of players actually used the Foundry, the Foundry's "steady stream of content" wasn't something the majority of STO players depending on to keep playing the game. Even when it comes to the people who did use it, I doubt the majority of them considered it wholly vital to their desire to play STO. So the need to replace it with anything is very likely a non-factor to Cryptic.

    Except that even losing a sizable chunk of a minority can be a hit to a game operating in a competitive industry subject to threshold dynamics and with players sensitive to trajectories, though do go on with your reductive minimization of negative events happening around STO (per internet conceptualization of "business is business", ie. circular reasoning.)

    Certainly the game isn't going to die as a result of losing the Foundry but "non-factor" this ain't (by any logical means). The Foundry supplied a sizable chunk of the community with a long-term creative and practical outlet which helped reinforce both playtime statistics, player investment in the game (through psychologically sustainable non-skinner boxes.) Even if the majority of players didn't play the Foundry they benefited from the primary effects (see. player retention) and interactions of having the Foundry in game. This is pretty damn basic and these factors were a unique element to STO/NW that helped their communities grow in spite of Cryptic's limited resources (see. small studio), intensity of competition within the F2P MMO genre, and where STO in particular started out.

    Cryptic would replace or fix it if they could, but they can't because neither Cryptic or STO are in a place where comparable investment to building the foundry can be justified. It took years in the first place and the same investment now (at this point in STO/NW's lifecycle) isn't likely to pay off even versus the downside of removal (categorically, that level of investment for single features isn't being made in this game.) It's better for Cryptic to put that effort into new projects (investing in growth) and minor updates to the core game (holding STO's ground as opposed to growth.) This isn't maintenance mode but you can see where this trajectory eventually leads as the level of investment required to keep STO current with the market eventually outpaces Cryptic's willingness and ability to supply it. Ie. what happened with the Foundry technicals but in terms of MMO economics, though what's learning about developmental systems from active examples?

    Basically they've just got to take the hit. It's a very painful situation for both the devs and community (you heard Kael, now look to your argument) though its one that a game at this point in its life cylce can't simply spin another feature up to compensate. Review the Ten Forward Weekly livestream if you don't appreciate this fact (grow your understanding from counter examples.)
    To those of you who will be missing the Foundry, What could they add to the game that would make you miss it less?

    The Foundry was special because of the UGC connection but it was also special because in several respects it outpaced official development through communal problem solving and iterative learning. Ie. we learned how to work with the format in ways that Cryptic (because of longer lag times in production processes and fewer content designers than existed active Foundry authors) hasn't caught up with yet in official content. Pacing, emphasis, and story/combat balance (to me) feels suboptimal, official character arcs are mechanically rudimentary, and there's some definite decisions (like fully voicing all dialog in spite of the acclimatization forced by boffs and level design practices) which I think places significant constraints on Cryptic further refining their approach to missions (minor expansions on the format requires a lot more attenuated investment.)

    Basically what I'd like to see (and what I think would most compensate for losing the Foundry) is a direct investment in narrative content that can be produced more cheaply and with greater character depth. Optional dialog and level building like mine/Greendragoon/JohnnySnowball/Starfarertheta is the most immediate way to do this, though I think they could find a great integration with a mechanical revamp of social/adventures zones to host this kind of content and allow for minor mission additions utilizing existing spaces that could help fill the gap between more expansive official episodes. Plus it gives a format to fall back on with future cut-backs in STO's level of development (putting everything on official episodes is not sustainable, long-term. Eventually the release frequency is going to fall below player engagement threshold. Having something else to keep players going with the narrative will help set that point back if not provide a long-term stable strategy.)
    Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
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  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 7,036 Community Moderator
    This thread is NOT about the Foundry, but rather suggestions for things that Cryptic could do/add in place of it, and not a one-for-one replacement, or Foundry 2.0, as that question has been answered as well as other Foundry related questions (see latest additions to the FCT). Further Foundry "debate" is derailing the thread. Please, stay on topic.
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  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 4,528 Arc User
    So yeah... What is Cryptic working on that will render the Foundry un-necessary?

    Your question means you completely misunderstand the situation. The reason the foundry is being removed has nothing to do with anything being developed. I suggest you read the news post they made, because the reason is clearly stated.

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  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,611 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    (Unnecessary response to off topic comments removed. - BMR)
    So yeah... What is Cryptic working on that will render the Foundry un-necessary?

    Your question means you completely misunderstand the situation.

    Lesson: people cared about the Foundry because in part because it was utilizing character dynamics and narrative arcs which elicit that level of deep emotional investment. People care about official missions too but much of that comes through integration with elements taken from the series (which had greater opportunity for narrative expansion given the format of other media.) Ie. context, the in-built arcs are (relatively speaking) fairly rudimentary. This works in the context of cross-marketing STO with Star Trek (hit the high points for cameos most efficiently, also be a Star Trek game.) However, it leaves a niche open that Foundry had filled for some players (spurring investment without skinner-box mechanics.)

    Cryptic could address that by applying lessons learned (for example) regarding the use of characters and character interactions in mission structure even if there isn't any plan to replace or fix the Foundry system. This could include missions with different format and/or emphasis (most extreme case of "learning from the Foundry") or simply small adjustments in character roles and dialog structure that help bring out more with the limited space available. None of this would make the Foundry unnecessary (see. above mod hat) or even require more than a refinement of approaches but it would provide something of what it did in-game (helping to retain as much of its audience as possible and make the most of the resource they have with the Foundry community.)
    Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Last missions:
    Evolution's Smile [SSF:3-3]
    Epoch, Part 2 [AEI]
    Transcendence, Part 4
    Memorial Tour

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    Looking for something new to play? The interactive Foundry Mission Database has you covered.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,230 Arc User
    Nothing specific. Losing the Foundry will free up resources, but not particularly in the content creation area. We might see more technical improvements to the game.
    Somehow fixing space and ground powers activation will still be beyond Cryptic to fix, something basically every other online MMO already does perfectly.
    Technically this is merely my best guess, but this seems to actually be an aspect of the UI, and when it shows the results of your actions. CO/STO/NW seem to do what is called a "3-way handshake" before activating skills. IE: I push the button to shoot a guy, my game client tells the server, the server says OK you shot the guy, THEN I see myself shoot the guy.

    Also Overwatch is a class-based FPS, not an MMO, and FPS games tend to show your actions client-side before doing the handshake. I used to play Rainbow Six with some buddies and we noticed that any time two of us saw each other in a hall face to face one of us would see themselves firing bullets that didn't exist server-side. IE: I push the button to shoot a guy, my game client shows me firing my gun and tells the server, the server checks to see if you shot the guy, THEN I see if I actually shot the guy.
    Imagine playing something like Overwatch and you've got your Ult ready which will save the match and get you into the next competitive rank:
    I'm guessing if that happened in Overwatch you'd see yourself use your Ult, but no one else would and you'd die instead of killing the enemy team. Seriously, there's a reason the official e-sport OW events use carefully curated play environments.

    So yeah, if that's your idea of "perfect"... I've got a lovely summer cottage tucked away on the secluded side of Lynx's Fold to sell you. :D
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  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 8,968 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    (Trolling comments moderated out. - BMR)
    Technically this is merely my best guess, but this seems to actually be an aspect of the UI, and when it shows the results of your actions. CO/STO/NW seem to do what is called a "3-way handshake" before activating skills. IE: I push the button to shoot a guy, my game client tells the server, the server says OK you shot the guy, THEN I see myself shoot the guy.
    Honestly, the bigger problem is that people are cancelling their own powers. Pretty much every MMO I can think of has activation times for their powers, be it a 1 second activation, half a second, 1/3 a second, etc. etc. STO has this same thing.

    And like all other MMOs, when telling your character to attack, or, in STO's case, pressing the space bar to fire all weapons, you are giving the game a command. If the command to fire all weapons is made within the activation time of the first command, this ends up cancelling the first command since it wasn't given its time to activate. And since most people in STO just mindlessly jam the spacebar to fire everything, they end up constantly negating their own power activations by giving the ship a new command before the power has time to activate.
    Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
  • jagdtier44jagdtier44 Member Posts: 341 Arc User
    Since they didn't know how the Foundry worked and only futzed with it when it broke the logical thing would be it's being replaced by nothing since there is no free'd up dev time to reinvest into some other kind of project that large. Perhaps we'll see a few more bug fixes with patches but I don't think it will be anything noticeable.

    My sarcastic answer tho is "obviously more RD pack ships because "CrYpTiC nEeDs To KeEp ThE lIgHtS oN" as justification for $300+ ships"
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,611 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    jagdtier44 wrote: »
    Perhaps we'll see a few more bug fixes with patches but I don't think it will be anything noticeable.

    And it's going to be hard to separate any apparent increase from a statistically significant one from background patch note levels. It's not something the community will likely ever be able to support or refute (so, let's definitely not go down that rabbit hole.) Again that's why my focus is what do with game design as opposed to what to do with systems. Systems require a lot of investment (not on the table) but STO's format offers untapped flexibility that they could start playing with more given the ecosystem shift on PC (adjustments to which would also benefit consoles.) There is a much more easily quantifiable need for "alternative narrative content" (ie. other stuff besides rote missions) without the foundry filling that niche (also exploration, which the Foundry had been covering since the old system's removal) so maybe over the long term Cryptic starts exploring ideas more than they've been exploring mechanical add-ons (add to this; fleet holdings, battlezones, and adventure zones arguably approaching points of diminishing returns. All told there seems to be a lot of convergent pressure on the team to start playing in small ways with mission/zone format and emphasis.)


    And as a sidebar to "what could Cryptic add to the game that's not a 1:1 replacement for the Foundry but could help retain Foundry-like dynamics," community inspired characters. There's recent precedent and I think that doff/boff/background cameos such as Kimala, Amanda Barclay, Fluffy, and/or Admiral Aaron would be a good gesture to those affected by Sunset and something Cryptic could use occasionally over the long term as a spotlighting tool for players and creative efforts (ex. Daddy Klingon, Ruinn "Jazz hands" Fane) in addition to or accompanying screenshot or writing challenges. There's a lot of directions Cryptic could take here and they would seem feasible and in line with both what we did with the Foundry and other events Kael likes to hold.
    Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Last missions:
    Evolution's Smile [SSF:3-3]
    Epoch, Part 2 [AEI]
    Transcendence, Part 4
    Memorial Tour

    For the latest Tardigrades and other creative output: @Gorgonops_SSF
    Looking for something new to play? The interactive Foundry Mission Database has you covered.
  • alexanderb#7559 alexanderb Member Posts: 177 Arc User
    artan42 wrote: »
    Reskined TFOs on an endless cycle.

    Yea! I can hardly wait for Pahvo Nebula Rescue, Pahvo Assault, Khitomer in Pahvo and Brotherhood of the Pahvo. :(

    We shal also stay tuned for exiting new rewards like [Pahvo Rotgut] and the infamous [Pahvo Negotiator]. :D

    What about this ones? :D

    Battle of Pahvo
    Pahvo Disconnected
    Pahvo Assault (ground)
    Counterpahvo
    Crystalline Pahvo
    Pahvo Found
    Days of Pahvo
    Defense of Pahvo One
    Federation Pahvo Alert
    Pahvo Kills
    Pahvo Sphere
    Pahvo Onslaught
    Infected: The Pahvo
    Pahvo Imperial Minefield
    Pahvo Fleet Defense
    Storming Pahvo
    Pahvo Tribulations
    Pahvo Front
    Pahvo Assault (space)
    Pahvo Shuttle Event
    Pahvo: Ensnared
    Pahvo Cycle
This discussion has been closed.