It's easy to believe that there would be an up-front investment of labor to convert the *first* foundry mission into a real mission.
But months for EACH mission is pure BS.
The foundry missions, by design, consist of nothing more than database entries (there is no custom coding involved, because none is possible beyond the very limited selection of "stock" behaviors available through the foundry UI).
Thus, you have to make a translator for each type of table, and that could take some amount of labor (although it's hard to believe the very simple options in the foundry aren't already supported by Cryptic's "real" tools - and worst case, there is a prototype implementation of any new code required available in whatever the foundry itself does with the data).
But once you have that, it should take milliseconds to convert each individual mission, not "months".
I guess I'd better go watch that video and pay close attention to what is said in it.
I wasn't blaming Kael. He's obviously doing the best he can. What used to be called "being between a rock and a hard place". Previous CMs didn't have it any easier, being the go-between a vocal forum community and the powers-that-be. I just wanted to know if there was anything that could've been added, that hadn't been said before. More detail that could be shared (if so, that's great; if not, I guess that's how it had to be).
Because I used to work for a company for 6 1/2 years (1993-2000) where there would be occasional meetings (mostly to deal with rumors), but we kept getting told by the new owners (the final ones that the company had) that everything was okay. We would survive. Until the Monday morning I came to work and discovered that the new owners had deep-sixed 60% of the employees ... without any previous warning. And anyone who wasn't willing to relocate to the new owners' state was basically out of a job (I was offered the chance to train a replacement in the new owners' state, after which I wouldn't be needed any longer; I turned it down).
Please understand me: I *want* STO to survive. I *want* STO to expand, not shrink. I *want* the Foundry back by whatever means are humanly possible. I *want* Cryptic to be able to have more money coming in, be able to keep hiring more people. I *don't* want to wake up one morning and suddenly find that there isn't any STO to log into anymore.
Let’s face it, the game architecture is more than ten years old, and the architects/engineers (Atari and Co.) have been long since gone/extinct from the game.
The big question is what is PWE/Cryptic doing to work on a new engine/architecture, that would be able to move the platform for the future?
Ten years is an eternity for technology based products.
> @somtaawkhar said: > whamhammer1 wrote: » > > The big question is what is PWE/Cryptic doing to work on a new engine/architecture, that would be able to move the platform for the future? > > > > They have already said they aren't going to switch engines, or anything like that. Doing so would require remaking the entire game. > > We have however seen them make several changes over the years to major aspects of the game engine like the lighting system, and the animation system. > > Back during Agents of Yesterday they also did a rather large back end change to how items were stored in the game data. Originally every single different MK version of a weapon was its own separate item in the game's database, now, every item is stored as a base level, and has different MK ranks and modifiers attached to it. So instead of having MK 1, MK2, MK3, etc. etc. phaser rifles each being their own item in the game code, there is now just a stock phaser rifle that gets the MKs and mods added onto it. This cut down a lot of database bloat the game had. > > It was also around this time that they went through and changed most of the powers/skills in the game to alter how they made calls to the server to reduce the rather large lag problems that were common during that time. The skills/powers themselves didn't change, except the "Command" ships, since that was the biggest source of the lag, just the way they made calls to the server was.
Sooner or later, the engine itself is going to be the bottleneck, its just a question of when, and if the company is either beleiving its worth it, or capable of a new system before they have to turn off the lights on it, having to make an all new game or not.
If i have a flat tire and need it fixed i either call a tow truck send the car to a shop and know that a grease monkey is needed to fix said tire issue.
What I refer to is the repeated insistence that it would be "easy" and "simple" to solve all those pesky issues with the Foundry, meaning that there can only be dark and ominous reasons to remove it.
Your car won't shift gears. Turns out a previous owner tried to "fix" a leaky transmission with epoxy just before dumping the car in a used-car lot. Problem is, automatic transmission fluid dissolves epoxy, so now you've got clumps of the stuff where it shouldn't be and massive leaks where it should. Are you going to sit there and complain about how much the repairs cost and how long they take because it's such a "simple, easy" fix?
(Full disclosure: The vehicle involved was a 1986 Mercury Sable station wagon, purchased in 1992 for $300. It cost more than that to fix the transmission. When it failed again, I wound up just abandoning the damned thing. In its way, not unlike what's happening here...)
Guys, be realistic here. The Foundry was down for months during the last update. Maybe something did break, maybe it was a test to gauge the player base reaction to UGC removal. Regardless, the management checked the player count, the revenue flow and the window for torch and pitchfork mobs. Everything was business as usual.
After this, they realized that having or not having UGC has no effect on the bottom line.
If i have a flat tire and need it fixed i either call a tow truck send the car to a shop and know that a grease monkey is needed to fix said tire issue.
What I refer to is the repeated insistence that it would be "easy" and "simple" to solve all those pesky issues with the Foundry, meaning that there can only be dark and ominous reasons to remove it.
Your car won't shift gears. Turns out a previous owner tried to "fix" a leaky transmission with epoxy just before dumping the car in a used-car lot. Problem is, automatic transmission fluid dissolves epoxy, so now you've got clumps of the stuff where it shouldn't be and massive leaks where it should. Are you going to sit there and complain about how much the repairs cost and how long they take because it's such a "simple, easy" fix?
(Full disclosure: The vehicle involved was a 1986 Mercury Sable station wagon, purchased in 1992 for $300. It cost more than that to fix the transmission. When it failed again, I wound up just abandoning the damned thing. In its way, not unlike what's happening here...)
In my posts i have not in any way called this easy to do i remember me saying some thing along the lines of a code wizard to wave a wand to fix problems. And that it is not what happens. And in the case of your busted car that was screwed from the start by some underhanded person intent on patching something to pass off a faulty product. The used car you mention in this case is not the best reference possible.
To translate that over to this game would indicate some one did a sorry patch to jury rig the code to sell it off on some one else knowing it was TRIBBLE. If that is the case now then it is not a good place to be in for the company to say the least on this.
At least indicating a flat tire something that is a random problem is no indication of some malice plot by any one. To me that is a better outlook of what we face here. TRIBBLE happens, no one likes a repair bill.
Staff retention of coders, and its not a outlandish ideal to contract employment with a clause of requiring the training of a person upon termination, or mutual parting of the ways i should think may have kept us from landing where we are. How ever i have no insider information to say one way or the other if they have in fact taken this form of staff training and retention. This is just my view on it in any case.
TLDR Life happens, no one likes everything, the foundry is going, lack of code understanding and how to fix old code brings to question the future as having the ability maintain this game, Time will tell.
And last but not least i have spent to much time posting in this topic as it is so see every one in game or not depending on there choice.
If you still play, even without spending, you are still supporting the game. You'd have to completely quit for it to have any effect.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
It's easy to believe that there would be an up-front investment of labor to convert the *first* foundry mission into a real mission.
But months for EACH mission is pure BS.
The foundry missions, by design, consist of nothing more than database entries (there is no custom coding involved, because none is possible beyond the very limited selection of "stock" behaviors available through the foundry UI).
Thus, you have to make a translator for each type of table, and that could take some amount of labor (although it's hard to believe the very simple options in the foundry aren't already supported by Cryptic's "real" tools - and worst case, there is a prototype implementation of any new code required available in whatever the foundry itself does with the data).
But once you have that, it should take milliseconds to convert each individual mission, not "months".
Great.. since you obviously have it all figured out, why don't you just head on over to Cryptic's Careers page and dazzle them with your skills. I'm sure with your vast and in depth knowledge of the coding behind the game, you'll have things fixed in no time!
It's sweet because a certain number of Foundry authors who through the years thought to tell the more 'mainstream' players what to play and more importantly how to play with the Foundry are getting their due . I hope that the extra few dozen or few hundred playthroughs their own missions got thanks to this busybodie type of behavior (that decidedly turned off other segments of the playerbase to the Foundry) , was in the end well worth it .
Yet like I said, it's also a bitter moment ... , both personally as someone who enjoyed solo & team content in the Foundry , and in terms of the 'piece in the bigger picture' as it were .
The 'bigger picture' as some posts here have partially eluded to has been a sordid one . From the initial & enthusiastic "go make your own stories guys! " , we went to "yeah, we're moving the folks working on the Foundry over to develop the Foundry for Neverwinter ..." , to "yeah, STO's Foundry was a Beta for Neverwinter (to see if we could do it), but don't worry guys, 'cuz things are gonna trickle back to the STO Foundry as we move to the next 'branch' of code" , to "Yes, Maria is a big proponent of the Foundry, and in her spare time she tags new(er) in game assets to be usable in the Foundry" .
I'll skip the rest, but those are a few examples of STO devs keeping us in the loop as to the ongoing's in Foundry land , through interviews, podcasts and posts on the old forums. Now look in contrast to the Q/A that is presented in the OP . That Q/A gives us a song & dance about the Foundry sunset that goes back as far as a year . Yet not a peep about said 'sunsetting' in that year . Not to generate interest in the Foundry . Not to let this dedicated part of the community (one that at one time had two dedicated podcasts and several segments in general STO podcasts) get their affairs and missions in order .
And still in the 'big picture' mode : In the past, STO lost devs to the development of Neverwinter . Cryptic is now developing a new MMO (Magic the Gathering) , one to which we already lost two devs (afaik) , and one that I expect to see talent move to from the devs of Neverwinter as well . In other words, I think / suppose / speculate & conspire theory -- that just like the Champions dev team took a hit for STO (we got Taco from there), and then STO team took a hit for Neverwinter, now STO & Neverwinter will (or have taken) a hit for the ongoing development of Magic the Gathering . This is how Cryptic works .
One way to 'take a hit' is to transfer/move devs . Another way is to tighten the belt ... , and this is where the Foundry comes in . Considering that it's getting shut down both in STO and in Neverwinter -- that taken together points to an unsuccessful venture ... , despite Neverwinter having gotten a better Foundry user interface (or so I'm told) and in general a better user experience .
In short, this has less (or equally) to do with "we no longer have 'legacy coders' " and more to do with "yeah, we needed to trim the budget and we knew about it a year ago, so we did what we could" .
The 'heroic efforts' described in the Q/A could be real, and they could be a "we really don't want to come off as the bad guys here" . In this age of 'fake news' from "official sources", both are equally possible ... , and I point to a different era that I described previously, when bad things were happening but we were kept in the loop (somewhat) , unlike the current : 'yeah, the Foundry has been on the chopping block for a year now, but we're just getting around to tell you guys ... so here, have a badge & stuff" . (and no, I'm not mocking the awards that are given -- just pointing to the way it comes off in terms of PR)
And since it's a custom in this thread, I too offer my thanks to the Foundry authors, podcasters, devs & supporters . You have all added a layer to STO that will be missed either in short term or in long term .
And speaking of long term -- if any STO dev happends to read this -- since you guys are saving the missions, I hope you're doing that in a way to re-instate them somehow once STO reaches 'maintenance mode' (see CO for reference) . Because the last time you guys tried to roll out one of your past builds (as an April's Fools joke if I remember correctly ) -- well that didn't go too well as I recall .
... and if anyone reading this has an affinity to the old Borg STF's , then crank the mission difficulty level up to Elite and give the Foundry mission 'Perfection' a try. I didn't write it, but for me it was the best Borg pew-pew I could find on the Foundry , and I tried nearly all I could find ...
On this side of the line a game is represented whose developers will do whatever they can to see it reach its full potential. That's a game I want to see. That is a game I would spend money on. If I am the only person on this side of the line, so be it.
Goodbye.
100% agree
NO TO ARC
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Poor documentation. Not enough descriptive variable and function names, not enough in-line comments on the code files, and not enough notes left behind by the programmer(s) who designed the Foundry but left the company, so anybody who comes after them has to basically guess and test to figure out what stuff does.
Poor version control. Not enough code versions saved for backup that can be pulled to help deal with unexpected failures.
Poor segregation of systems (what people are referring to as "spaghetti code"). You've got things referring to each other that really shouldn't, so changing a seemingly innocuous function causes snafus in weird places.
That is probably true to some extent, but also there's the fact it's extremely complex.
Perhaps what they could do is build a program that can do the conversion process for them. We don't need scratch built assets all we need are the assets already in the foundry and most of them are identical to what is already in the main game, every asset you see in the foundry you can find already somewhere in the main game.
They would have to design and build a script then debug it until it actually works. Also there's the issue of how Foundry assets just aren't put together the same way.
(And yes, I know Cryptic runs Champions Online too - but with that game in perpetual maintenance mode; I'd say that team has 3 people at most; and they just make the occasional new CO C-Store item.)
Sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of this Teliosaurus roaring, could you step closer to it's teeth?
Compared to most MMORPGs, STO releases content at a fairly fast pace. Most MMOs make you wait 4-5 months between new content, Cryptic cut that down to two since Delta Rising, and now they are doing something MONTHLY, be it a new TFO, new missions, or a new gameplay system. If you think Cryptic releases new content at a nsials pace, then most other MMOs much seem to move at a glacial pace.
Seriously?
In the last 12 months of ESO we have seen the following:
Dragon Bones - 2 dungeons
Wolfhunter - 2 dungeons
Murkmire - concerns a previously unexplored region of Black Marsh, the story is about a dead clan of Argonians
Wrathstone is about getting two parts of a mysterious tablet.
Update 17 - includes a new outfit system, two new battlegrounds, a home storage system, and additional gameplay features such as a new level-up experience, and combat improvements such as refinements to Synergies, the removal of area-of-effect caps, changes to block costs, and more.
Summerset - a full expansion pack based on Summerset Isle
That's about 50 hours of content, much of it repeatable. In June they will release Elsweyr, another 30 hours of content.
STO releases two missions every 3 months, that's about 90 minutes worth of content based on 45 min each playthrough, at that rate you're talking 6 hours a year, or around a tenth of the content from ESO.
I can't comment on other MMOs because I don't play them. Of course, as has been said before, Cryptic is nowhere near the size of Zenimax and don't have paid for episodes, although most of the above are free for subscribers. That's their choice, they scrapped subbing, they went F2P, and have concentrated on a grind model with microtransactions, they live off ship sales as their employee noted in the Glassdoor review quoted earlier in this thread. The foundry filled the huge gap between content releases because a couple of hours every quarter an interesting experience does not make.
It's nice that you stick up for all aspects of what Cryptic do, but you are flogging a dead horse here Som. Go back and read the hundreds of comments, no matter how much you try and convince others they did the right thing your arguments are falling on deaf ears because we are almost all annoyed and angry that the game has come to this. A software company who admits they cannot service parts of their own game, a game that collapses under a myriad of bugs on every release, on each platform, a game that is just one huge grind to enable ship and character improvement and yet offers nowhere to fully test and utilize those improved characters and ships. They have never reintroduced previous elite content such as the Borg STFs, so folks can no longer get their elite MACO and OMEGA costumes and besides HSE, which is way too easy nowadays, there are no real challenges left in the game other than foundry missions - and now they are removing that too.
Let's just look at some of the problems:
lots of problems snipped
Then there are the things that are started and never developed further
New Romulus looks the same today as it did years ago!
No new Faction specific missions, ie no continuing development of the Romulan story, the Jem'Hadar story, the ToS story, only the DISCO characters are continuing to get updated.
Then there are the stupid things like level 50 battlezones for the Dyson sphere
No update to the fleet system, like the much-requested armada mail since it was introduced.
100,000 fleet admirals running around everywhere mining dilithium
A totally pointless cooldown on transwarp abilities
Space effects so out of control you can't even see your ship half the time unless you're in a J
Insane damage from torpedoes of enemy ships from time to time on any difficulty level
Patrols that you can only play once unless you drop before handing in effectively removing even more content
Oh, the list is endless, but you know what made it all worthwhile? Playing the latest adventure from one of your fleet mates in a group, once you'd figured out the workarounds to let you actually play as a team because that is broken too.
They've removed the most worthwhile aspect to the game, it will now only appeal to people up until they reach end game and realise there is no endgame, the endgame in STO is now space barbie and epeen displays, it's not PvP because that's beyond broken, it's not Elite STFs because they are mostly gone, it's not the elite battlezones because there aren't any. And now it's not the challenging missions written in the foundry because they are removing it.
So you see why your defence of Cryptic is falling on deaf ears? And believe me, if it wasn't 2:25 am I'd be thinking up a shed load more examples but I'm tired, tired of people defending the indefensible, tired of being taken for a fool and tired of shelling out cash for something that never delivers. Well there's an answer to that, and if others think like I do, and I believe there are many who do, then Cryptic had better wake up and smell the coffee because things are about to get real.
I snipped out some of your post because I want to once again offer my 2 cents on most of your points that, while Somtaawkhar pointed out, the point needs to be stated from another point of view.
First off, let's talk about ESO vs. STO and for fun, let's throw Neverwinter in here, since Neverwinter to me is more in line with an example of a fantasy game than STO is (as it is a Sci fi game).
Unlike you, I have played other MMORPGs besides STO, though I cannot comment about ESO in my own opinion other than what I heard for the most part and what I know about ESO. From what I understand, ESO had a longer development time than STO, which is reflected in the fact that Zenimax is a larger company than Cryptic. ESO launched as a game that not only required to be bought in order to play, but also required a monthly subscription, similar to World of Warcraft. the subscription model to play barely lasted a year before they dropped it to the buy once & play unlimited model with an optional subscription attached, which gained more favorable reviews than when the game was purely subscription based.
Okay, now for Neverwinter. Neverwinter did not receive as large of a development time as ESO, but compared to STO, Neverwinter had nearly double the time, after being announced in August of 2010, under Atari. As we know, Neverwinter never started as a subscription based game since Cryptic was purchased by Perfect World. Compared to STO's originally subscription based model, the fact that Neverwinter was still in development meant that they could bring the game out free 2 play. The game came out offering many different playable races, as well as classes, and many different areas that people could spend time leveling their characters in while experiencing a narrative in each area. Since release, the game has had 15 major game updates that they call Modules (which is similar to the concept of STO's season updates).
Like STO, Neverwinter is also having its foundry shut down, which of course you have commented on. However, compared to this thread, there's fewer pages there. What is the same though is how much of an asset that the Foundry was to them as it was to STO, but in a different way. Neverwinter is a game that takes inspiration from Dungeons & Dragons, which is a table top RPG famous for its ability for players to formulate their own campaigns/stories and have friends embark on the adventure they came up with. A game like Neverwinter losing that essentially makes it lose a fundamental identity of what defines it as a D&D game.
Now, to move on to the other points:
- New Romulus looking the same as when it was first introduced, it's what Som described. It's meant to be an adventure zone for players whom would just be arriving to it for the first time. Now, I would like to have it have some development myself, but I think any development should probably be saved for when they feel we should revisit the planet.
- Lack of Faction specific missions: As a whole, I want to point out that it was Cryptic themselves that stated in Priority One Podcast that to offer faction specific content that only a portion of the playerbase could access is something they want to avoid. Yeah, I know you cited that they did it with TOS Feds back in 2016, but that was 3 years ago. As far as the groups:
Romulans: To me, the Romulan storyline is more or less done. It started with the Romulan Republic being newly formed, looking for assistance from both the Klingons and the Federation since they were dealing with the Romulan Star Empire as a major antagonist. By the time its resolved, the Empire is all but gone and the Republic emerges fairly strong.
TOS Federation: As you may be well aware, the TOS storyline ends with the player's ship being "destroyed" and the character transported into the future by Daniels. There's not really much they can continue for the storyline, other than including some references like they did with the Kelvin Timeline mission in which the TOS character is recognized by the alternate Garrett.
Jem'hadar: For me, the fact that they don't have any other development to me makes sense. The Jem'hadar are meant to be soldiers, engineered to fight and not a whole lot of other development. If I had to hazard a guess though, Odo likely gave an order to the Jem'hadar First to assist the Alliance in whatever situation that arises.
Disco character: Realistically, the only real update that the Discovery characters have had was the initial launch. Mirror Of Discovery was more geared towards everyone. There is going to be an addtional set of Discovery missions coming for 2257 characters in the near future.
One thing that I can agree with you though is that endgame in STO is something that cryptic has been struggling with for years, going back as far as I can remember when I started. All we had when I reached Level 50 were the Borg TFOs, Defera, Nukara, Fleet Actions and the Borg/Nukara Red Alerts. They did expand on things prior to Delta Rising by adding 3 new battlezones, new story missions and additional TFOs. Since then, they have moved the endgame goal post by expanding the level cap to 60, and again to level 65, but continued to rely on utilizing story missions, battlezones and TFOs as endgame content, while also introducing new progression systems that are designed to help players continue to feel like they're doing something worthwhile in the game.
For me personally, my endgame is what I choose to make of it. If I reach a point that I am getting bored of playing one character, I simply move onto another character. I still have my Temporal Recruit and my Jem'hadar unfinished as far as progression and I return to them from time to time usually while doing the new Featured TFOs. I also take breaks from the game when possible so I don't burn out from overplaying.
Comments
But months for EACH mission is pure BS.
The foundry missions, by design, consist of nothing more than database entries (there is no custom coding involved, because none is possible beyond the very limited selection of "stock" behaviors available through the foundry UI).
Thus, you have to make a translator for each type of table, and that could take some amount of labor (although it's hard to believe the very simple options in the foundry aren't already supported by Cryptic's "real" tools - and worst case, there is a prototype implementation of any new code required available in whatever the foundry itself does with the data).
But once you have that, it should take milliseconds to convert each individual mission, not "months".
I wasn't blaming Kael. He's obviously doing the best he can. What used to be called "being between a rock and a hard place". Previous CMs didn't have it any easier, being the go-between a vocal forum community and the powers-that-be. I just wanted to know if there was anything that could've been added, that hadn't been said before. More detail that could be shared (if so, that's great; if not, I guess that's how it had to be).
Because I used to work for a company for 6 1/2 years (1993-2000) where there would be occasional meetings (mostly to deal with rumors), but we kept getting told by the new owners (the final ones that the company had) that everything was okay. We would survive. Until the Monday morning I came to work and discovered that the new owners had deep-sixed 60% of the employees ... without any previous warning. And anyone who wasn't willing to relocate to the new owners' state was basically out of a job (I was offered the chance to train a replacement in the new owners' state, after which I wouldn't be needed any longer; I turned it down).
Please understand me: I *want* STO to survive. I *want* STO to expand, not shrink. I *want* the Foundry back by whatever means are humanly possible. I *want* Cryptic to be able to have more money coming in, be able to keep hiring more people. I *don't* want to wake up one morning and suddenly find that there isn't any STO to log into anymore.
The big question is what is PWE/Cryptic doing to work on a new engine/architecture, that would be able to move the platform for the future?
Ten years is an eternity for technology based products.
> whamhammer1 wrote: »
>
> The big question is what is PWE/Cryptic doing to work on a new engine/architecture, that would be able to move the platform for the future?
>
>
>
> They have already said they aren't going to switch engines, or anything like that. Doing so would require remaking the entire game.
>
> We have however seen them make several changes over the years to major aspects of the game engine like the lighting system, and the animation system.
>
> Back during Agents of Yesterday they also did a rather large back end change to how items were stored in the game data. Originally every single different MK version of a weapon was its own separate item in the game's database, now, every item is stored as a base level, and has different MK ranks and modifiers attached to it. So instead of having MK 1, MK2, MK3, etc. etc. phaser rifles each being their own item in the game code, there is now just a stock phaser rifle that gets the MKs and mods added onto it. This cut down a lot of database bloat the game had.
>
> It was also around this time that they went through and changed most of the powers/skills in the game to alter how they made calls to the server to reduce the rather large lag problems that were common during that time. The skills/powers themselves didn't change, except the "Command" ships, since that was the biggest source of the lag, just the way they made calls to the server was.
Sooner or later, the engine itself is going to be the bottleneck, its just a question of when, and if the company is either beleiving its worth it, or capable of a new system before they have to turn off the lights on it, having to make an all new game or not.
Your car won't shift gears. Turns out a previous owner tried to "fix" a leaky transmission with epoxy just before dumping the car in a used-car lot. Problem is, automatic transmission fluid dissolves epoxy, so now you've got clumps of the stuff where it shouldn't be and massive leaks where it should. Are you going to sit there and complain about how much the repairs cost and how long they take because it's such a "simple, easy" fix?
(Full disclosure: The vehicle involved was a 1986 Mercury Sable station wagon, purchased in 1992 for $300. It cost more than that to fix the transmission. When it failed again, I wound up just abandoning the damned thing. In its way, not unlike what's happening here...)
After this, they realized that having or not having UGC has no effect on the bottom line.
In my posts i have not in any way called this easy to do i remember me saying some thing along the lines of a code wizard to wave a wand to fix problems. And that it is not what happens. And in the case of your busted car that was screwed from the start by some underhanded person intent on patching something to pass off a faulty product. The used car you mention in this case is not the best reference possible.
To translate that over to this game would indicate some one did a sorry patch to jury rig the code to sell it off on some one else knowing it was TRIBBLE. If that is the case now then it is not a good place to be in for the company to say the least on this.
At least indicating a flat tire something that is a random problem is no indication of some malice plot by any one. To me that is a better outlook of what we face here. TRIBBLE happens, no one likes a repair bill.
Staff retention of coders, and its not a outlandish ideal to contract employment with a clause of requiring the training of a person upon termination, or mutual parting of the ways i should think may have kept us from landing where we are. How ever i have no insider information to say one way or the other if they have in fact taken this form of staff training and retention. This is just my view on it in any case.
TLDR Life happens, no one likes everything, the foundry is going, lack of code understanding and how to fix old code brings to question the future as having the ability maintain this game, Time will tell.
And last but not least i have spent to much time posting in this topic as it is so see every one in game or not depending on there choice.
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Great.. since you obviously have it all figured out, why don't you just head on over to Cryptic's Careers page and dazzle them with your skills. I'm sure with your vast and in depth knowledge of the coding behind the game, you'll have things fixed in no time!
We're saved!
It's sweet because a certain number of Foundry authors who through the years thought to tell the more 'mainstream' players what to play and more importantly how to play with the Foundry are getting their due .
I hope that the extra few dozen or few hundred playthroughs their own missions got thanks to this busybodie type of behavior (that decidedly turned off other segments of the playerbase to the Foundry) , was in the end well worth it .
Yet like I said, it's also a bitter moment ... , both personally as someone who enjoyed solo & team content in the Foundry , and in terms of the 'piece in the bigger picture' as it were .
The 'bigger picture' as some posts here have partially eluded to has been a sordid one .
From the initial & enthusiastic "go make your own stories guys! " , we went to "yeah, we're moving the folks working on the Foundry over to develop the Foundry for Neverwinter ..." , to "yeah, STO's Foundry was a Beta for Neverwinter (to see if we could do it), but don't worry guys, 'cuz things are gonna trickle back to the STO Foundry as we move to the next 'branch' of code" , to "Yes, Maria is a big proponent of the Foundry, and in her spare time she tags new(er) in game assets to be usable in the Foundry" .
I'll skip the rest, but those are a few examples of STO devs keeping us in the loop as to the ongoing's in Foundry land , through interviews, podcasts and posts on the old forums.
Now look in contrast to the Q/A that is presented in the OP .
That Q/A gives us a song & dance about the Foundry sunset that goes back as far as a year .
Yet not a peep about said 'sunsetting' in that year .
Not to generate interest in the Foundry .
Not to let this dedicated part of the community (one that at one time had two dedicated podcasts and several segments in general STO podcasts) get their affairs and missions in order .
And still in the 'big picture' mode :
In the past, STO lost devs to the development of Neverwinter .
Cryptic is now developing a new MMO (Magic the Gathering) , one to which we already lost two devs (afaik) , and one that I expect to see talent move to from the devs of Neverwinter as well .
In other words, I think / suppose / speculate & conspire theory -- that just like the Champions dev team took a hit for STO (we got Taco from there), and then STO team took a hit for Neverwinter, now STO & Neverwinter will (or have taken) a hit for the ongoing development of Magic the Gathering .
This is how Cryptic works .
One way to 'take a hit' is to transfer/move devs .
Another way is to tighten the belt ... , and this is where the Foundry comes in .
Considering that it's getting shut down both in STO and in Neverwinter -- that taken together points to an unsuccessful venture ... , despite Neverwinter having gotten a better Foundry user interface (or so I'm told) and in general a better user experience .
In short, this has less (or equally) to do with "we no longer have 'legacy coders' " and more to do with "yeah, we needed to trim the budget and we knew about it a year ago, so we did what we could" .
The 'heroic efforts' described in the Q/A could be real, and they could be a "we really don't want to come off as the bad guys here" .
In this age of 'fake news' from "official sources", both are equally possible ... , and I point to a different era that I described previously, when bad things were happening but we were kept in the loop (somewhat) , unlike the current : 'yeah, the Foundry has been on the chopping block for a year now, but we're just getting around to tell you guys ... so here, have a badge & stuff" .
(and no, I'm not mocking the awards that are given -- just pointing to the way it comes off in terms of PR)
And since it's a custom in this thread, I too offer my thanks to the Foundry authors, podcasters, devs & supporters .
You have all added a layer to STO that will be missed either in short term or in long term .
And speaking of long term -- if any STO dev happends to read this -- since you guys are saving the missions, I hope you're doing that in a way to re-instate them somehow once STO reaches 'maintenance mode' (see CO for reference) .
Because the last time you guys tried to roll out one of your past builds (as an April's Fools joke if I remember correctly ) -- well that didn't go too well as I recall .
... and if anyone reading this has an affinity to the old Borg STF's , then crank the mission difficulty level up to Elite and give the Foundry mission 'Perfection' a try. I didn't write it, but for me it was the best Borg pew-pew I could find on the Foundry , and I tried nearly all I could find ...
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
My character Tsin'xing
I snipped out some of your post because I want to once again offer my 2 cents on most of your points that, while Somtaawkhar pointed out, the point needs to be stated from another point of view.
First off, let's talk about ESO vs. STO and for fun, let's throw Neverwinter in here, since Neverwinter to me is more in line with an example of a fantasy game than STO is (as it is a Sci fi game).
Unlike you, I have played other MMORPGs besides STO, though I cannot comment about ESO in my own opinion other than what I heard for the most part and what I know about ESO. From what I understand, ESO had a longer development time than STO, which is reflected in the fact that Zenimax is a larger company than Cryptic. ESO launched as a game that not only required to be bought in order to play, but also required a monthly subscription, similar to World of Warcraft. the subscription model to play barely lasted a year before they dropped it to the buy once & play unlimited model with an optional subscription attached, which gained more favorable reviews than when the game was purely subscription based.
Okay, now for Neverwinter. Neverwinter did not receive as large of a development time as ESO, but compared to STO, Neverwinter had nearly double the time, after being announced in August of 2010, under Atari. As we know, Neverwinter never started as a subscription based game since Cryptic was purchased by Perfect World. Compared to STO's originally subscription based model, the fact that Neverwinter was still in development meant that they could bring the game out free 2 play. The game came out offering many different playable races, as well as classes, and many different areas that people could spend time leveling their characters in while experiencing a narrative in each area. Since release, the game has had 15 major game updates that they call Modules (which is similar to the concept of STO's season updates).
Like STO, Neverwinter is also having its foundry shut down, which of course you have commented on. However, compared to this thread, there's fewer pages there. What is the same though is how much of an asset that the Foundry was to them as it was to STO, but in a different way. Neverwinter is a game that takes inspiration from Dungeons & Dragons, which is a table top RPG famous for its ability for players to formulate their own campaigns/stories and have friends embark on the adventure they came up with. A game like Neverwinter losing that essentially makes it lose a fundamental identity of what defines it as a D&D game.
Now, to move on to the other points:
- New Romulus looking the same as when it was first introduced, it's what Som described. It's meant to be an adventure zone for players whom would just be arriving to it for the first time. Now, I would like to have it have some development myself, but I think any development should probably be saved for when they feel we should revisit the planet.
- Lack of Faction specific missions: As a whole, I want to point out that it was Cryptic themselves that stated in Priority One Podcast that to offer faction specific content that only a portion of the playerbase could access is something they want to avoid. Yeah, I know you cited that they did it with TOS Feds back in 2016, but that was 3 years ago. As far as the groups:
One thing that I can agree with you though is that endgame in STO is something that cryptic has been struggling with for years, going back as far as I can remember when I started. All we had when I reached Level 50 were the Borg TFOs, Defera, Nukara, Fleet Actions and the Borg/Nukara Red Alerts. They did expand on things prior to Delta Rising by adding 3 new battlezones, new story missions and additional TFOs. Since then, they have moved the endgame goal post by expanding the level cap to 60, and again to level 65, but continued to rely on utilizing story missions, battlezones and TFOs as endgame content, while also introducing new progression systems that are designed to help players continue to feel like they're doing something worthwhile in the game.
For me personally, my endgame is what I choose to make of it. If I reach a point that I am getting bored of playing one character, I simply move onto another character. I still have my Temporal Recruit and my Jem'hadar unfinished as far as progression and I return to them from time to time usually while doing the new Featured TFOs. I also take breaks from the game when possible so I don't burn out from overplaying.