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Star Trek Discovery Season 02, Episode 07: "Light and Shadows" (Spoiler Warning)
mustrumridcully0
Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
Finally we get to see Spock! And I kinda expected a more impressive entrance. A bit of a disappointment, but maybe in the end the right thing to do, because can you really top expectations here?
But I really liked the episode. Even if Spock is here but not here.
Looks like Airam might get us into trouble int the future.
It's interesting to see another facet of the Sarek/Amanda relationship.
Interesting idea to give Spock a human disease that made his childhood harder. I wasn't familiar with Dysmetropsia. Fascinating.
And going back to Talos IV - I suppose this is where Spock builds a stronger rapport with the Talosians so they will help him with the injured Pike later? Wonder what the purpose of his visit is - does he think they are connected, or does he think they can heal him?
I wonder where Georgiou has her information about Leeland? Is she relying on the Defiant database, or is she just good at digging up information? Or is it a combination of both?
Earth probes should probably be designed with a kill switch that activates itself after a century or so. First the shuttle's probe, than Nomad, than V'Ger? The future really does strange things to them.
I wonder if we saw some connections to Calypso here - does the Discovery gain an AI through this episode, or a temporal effect similar to this?
@angrytarg et all: The camera is well behaved in this episode!
But I really liked the episode. Even if Spock is here but not here.
Looks like Airam might get us into trouble int the future.
It's interesting to see another facet of the Sarek/Amanda relationship.
Interesting idea to give Spock a human disease that made his childhood harder. I wasn't familiar with Dysmetropsia. Fascinating.
And going back to Talos IV - I suppose this is where Spock builds a stronger rapport with the Talosians so they will help him with the injured Pike later? Wonder what the purpose of his visit is - does he think they are connected, or does he think they can heal him?
I wonder where Georgiou has her information about Leeland? Is she relying on the Defiant database, or is she just good at digging up information? Or is it a combination of both?
Earth probes should probably be designed with a kill switch that activates itself after a century or so. First the shuttle's probe, than Nomad, than V'Ger? The future really does strange things to them.
I wonder if we saw some connections to Calypso here - does the Discovery gain an AI through this episode, or a temporal effect similar to this?
@angrytarg et all: The camera is well behaved in this episode!
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That's a good bet. The Defiant is from a decade into DSCs future, though I don't know how much attention the Emperor would have paid to it.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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REMEMBER SINGING PLANTS?
REMEMBER VINA?
REMEMBER THE POWER OF ILLUSION?
They should just start using this convention for titling their episodes since almost every episode of the show insists upon inserting a call-back of some sort. I'll say it again; It's like they are trying to remind us why we like Star Trek when they should just write good Star Trek. To be fair, Season 2 is a step up from Season 1.
SPOILERS AHEAD
They also missed a great opportunity with this episode by not casting a woman to play The Keeper. That was a brilliant bit of work in the original, cast women with slight builds to play males in a society that emphasized the development of mind almost exclusively over development of body.
It's also too bad they had to leave a planet of telepaths to find a planet of telepaths to do the telepathic thing. I'm willing to grant some leeway here, though, because Spock was in a bit of a state and couldn't properly communicate his needs. If only there were some family member, whose telepathic prowess could span light years, were close enough to probe the obviously-mentally-troubled Spock's mind... It would be even better is such a family member possessed considerable rank and repute among Vulcans.
So if Spock and Mike have been estranged why is she the solution to putting his mind back in "chronological order?" Indeed, how could anyone serve such a purpose for another without significant gaps in the data?
It's bad story telling that the incredibly powerful Talosians (and Organians and so on) from TOS were just ignored by TNG and it's good storytelling that DSC is picking them up.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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I don't know. It's one thing to set the stage with the death of Jennifer Sisko at the outset of Deep Space Nine then make the occasional reference to that event because it was a major life event for Ben Sisko, but it's quite another to work story and plot point from prior series into nearly every episode of an existing series. Hell, REMEMBER SPOCK!? is one of the foundations of Mike Burnham's character for farting out loud!
As far as not going back to Talos IV after The Original Series, it was established that to return there was a criminal act and the Talosians generally considered humanity too violent for their purposes.
I also seem to recall that, during a recent re-watch of The Original Series, it was mentioned that the Organians had disappeared. I may be wrong about that, but I'll try to source that and get back to you.
Trelaines parent wouldn't let him have anymore "pets" since he couldn't take care of them (this was more implicit than explicit).
The Metrons didn't think that the Federation would be ready for relations for another 1000 years after meeting Jim Kirk.
Apollo claimed to be the last of his kind.
Charlie Evans was taken away by his adopted parents for misuse ho the power they taught him.
There are logical reasons for these godlike beings to never return.
Sure The Next Generation, Deep Space Nine, Voyager, and Enterprise made references to that which aired before, but those series did not exhibit the level of reliance that Discovery does.
REMEMBER HARRY MUDD?!
Rainn Wilson could have been named Skeevy Skeeverson and the Stella character and references changed to Pesty Vanderpest and nothing else in those episodes would have to change. That makes the use of Harry Mudd utterly pointless.
For now I cannot guarantee the accuracy of my statement about the Organians in the above post.
According to Memory Alpha, there is no mention of Organians after Errand of Mercy in TOS. However, the Observer Effect in Enterprise features Organians where they temporarily possess members of the crew while watching how the Enterprise deals with a silicon-based virus.
There is a few comics and novels that deal with Organians, but they are too contradictory. So it is possible that the Organians leaving is based on a comic that you have previously read.
All of that came up in my research, but all of my engagement, at this point, is with the various television series and I recall it being a throw away line.
Again, that doesn't mean it happened, just that my brain is convinced that it did happen. I may have to re-watch just to know for certain.
You could try this website. It has the transcript for every Star Trek episode and movie up to the series finale of Enterprise. Just search for Organia and you don't need to bother with re-watching each episode. There might be a few mentions of Organia due to the Treaty of Organia being referenced in other episodes of TOS.
I'll give it a shot.
Thanks!
My brain must have injected the line while I was falling asleep with Star Trek on.
Estranged, yes. To the point where one would believe Sarek would allow his son to wallow in a state of mental anarchy? I doubt their rift was that extreme.
I did indeed. I even saw the part where Sarek showed up in that very same location after following Amanda and Mike. Did you know that finding someone and trying to save someone are different things? Please do not fall into the trap of trying to re-frame another persons argument.
Sarek choosing to turn his son over to an arm of the body he didn't want his son to join in the first place is an interesting choice. For a Vulcan it practically screams of petty vindictiveness. I'll even grant that while Sareks logic was "uncertain where his son is concerned" (Star Trek III: The Search for Spock), his disagreement with Spock never came off as petty or vindictive. Until now.
Edited to fix spelling and add a missing word.
There is the DS9 comic, Blood and Honor, that had the last Organian leave this plane of existence after bringing about peace between Federations and Romulans. This seems to be the only instance of Organians leaving. The comic seems contradictory to how Organians are in the TV series. The Organians didn't bother with the Klingons and Federation until it became a problem in their backyard.
I never disputed that it's been established that Spock and Sarek never shared a mind meld. What was written in this episode makes no sense. It seems like all the nonsense that takes place is just there to propel Spock and Mike to Talos IV when the same, if not better, solution could be had on Vulcan.
I don't mind a trip to Talos IV if it makes sense to go there. In this case it does not.
EDITED TO ADD:
As for the reason for that rift, it was already established; Spock entered Starfleet when Sarek wanted him to join the Vulcan Science Academy. In time their relationship, though it may have smoothed out somewhat, was largely based upon argument and disagreement.
What they've added in this episode is just dickish behavior and flawed logic to justify what amount to a road trip.
EDIT:
Clearly that didn't work as I intended...
It's not that large a part in her story. In series 2 maybe (because, again, Pike) but in S1 it was Sarek and the war that where her plot points.
So the Klingons, Romulans, Dominion, Cardassians, Breen, or Borg never sought them out?
And his parents?
Like the Organians, the Metrons could have been very important in the Dominion War. They pitch up a fuss when some primitive 23rd C Klingons and Feds show up but when the Dominion are steamrollering through the neighbourhood they do sod all?
Yes, that's one loose end they've tied up.
And his parents?
No there isn't. Being grounded by god-parents is why those individuals never show up, not why all the gods never show up.
DSC is set 10 years before TOS in the same region of space as most of TOS.
Not having characters from TOS would diminish the show because it would fail at its potential to expand that era. TNG really dropped the ball by not tying into DS9 more. Hell, the one time they visit the station it's only manned by Quark apparently. The TNG films demanded the DS9 characters (especially the second and third ones) and diminished themselves by standing apart.
DSC is not VGR, it's not set in a different quadrant to DS9 and it needs to use TOS characters and plots or they become more glaring by their absence.
This is not reliance, it's making a three dimensional universe where consequences of actions resonate beyond their original sphere of influence and where bit players in one persons lives are major parts of another person's life. Where events that came out of nowhere now have context and you can drop characters once they move away in the assurance that their fates play out somewhere else.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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I have this crazy notion that an individual show should have an individual identity that is not dependent on that which came before. As you've indicated some overlap makes sense. When overlap becomes the tool of choice to tell your story, however, it all becomes trite and boring.
EDIT:
I responded to each point, but I fouled up the formatting so most of those responses are in the area that looks like a quote. TRIBBLE.
Coloring your responses or using a different quote for each of the other person's responses are popular formats for responding to a bunch of another person's responses.
Indeed, I have a rabid case of the sucks at some things.