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Forums > Home› Star Trek Online General Discussion

Upgrades: Quality

villainvilevillainvile Member Posts: 64 Arc User
edited September 2023 in Star Trek Online General Discussion
Jolan'tru!

I'm sure, that most of the STO players, or all of them, have been upset about the upgrade system. The quality improvement is a random gambling, where you can sink your Dilithium. Sure, the smarter of use know, that upgrading from MK 2 very rare (purple), with Omega or experimental upgrades and quality improvement boosters, will increase the chance to get an epic (golden) item.

I discussed about it with some others players (thx @flyingyara for input) and we found a possibility to upgrade items with a 100% chance for quality improvements. And, that Cryptic can use it as a black hole for Dilithium again. The idea is, that every upgrade level get a quality improvement and the needed XP can be increased as compensation.


How it will work?
With every MK Level, an item will get a new quality. But the qualities a are now different in itself.

Icon_Common0.png MK I

To get from a common white item to an uncommon green item, you only need one upgrade.

Icon_Uncommon0.png MK II
Icon_Uncommon1.png MK III

To get a rare item, now you need two upgrades.
MK 2 is now uncommon and MK 3 is an uncommon uncommon Item.

Icon_Rare0.png MK IV
Icon_Rare1.png MK V
Icon_Rare2.png MK VI

Within the others qualities it is the same. But if higher you want to upgrade, you have more levels within a qualitiy.
For example, we have an MK 4 item, that is rare. MK 5 will be an uncommon rare item and with MK 6 you get an rare rare item.

Icon_VeryRare0.png MK VII
Icon_VeryRare1.png MK VIII
Icon_VeryRare2.png MK IX
Icon_VeryRare3.png MK X

The modifiers doesn't change between the same quality. New modifiers come with the last upgrade of the same quality. So you will use the modifiers of the previous quality. As an incentive to upgrade them fully. But with every MK level the stats of an item will change.

Icon_UltraRare0.png MK XI
Icon_UltraRare1.png MK XII
Icon_UltraRare2.png MK XIII
Icon_UltraRare3.png MK XIV
Icon_UltraRare4.png MK XV

With this system, we have an excess.
The epic items will be get from MK 16 to MK 21.

Icon_Epic0.png MK XVI
Icon_Epic1.png MK XVII
Icon_Epic2.png MK XVIII
Icon_Epic3.png MK XIX
Icon_Epic4.png MK XX
Icon_Epic5.png MK XXI


Qapla'! from Bavaria :smile:
Hope, my post is understandable. :wink:
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on

Comments

  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,919 Arc User
    While I admire the thought you have put into this, I find this system to be more convoluted then the current method.

    To be honest, the system we have right now is pretty good. It used to really suck out loud, but now with Phoenix Kits, Omega Kits, and the re-engineering system.. it's pretty easy and fairly cheap to get exactly what you want.

    I used to trash things when they didn't go Epic from Mark II, but honestly.. taking things from UR to Epic using Phoenix Kits isn't that expensive, and I usually have hundreds of them in my inventory.

    The idea of taking things to Mark 21 isn't a solution that I personally like.

    I might be in the minority (I honestly don't know) but I like the current system. I have no problem outfitting all my characters with Mark XV Epics.
    Insert witty signature line here.
  • villainvilevillainvile Member Posts: 64 Arc User
    seaofsorrows wrote: »
    using Phoenix Kits isn't that expensive, and I usually have hundreds of them in my inventory.

    That's you. But what about other players? What about beginners? STO is not friendly to newbies. Do you think new players know, where to get enough Dilithium for all their concerns? And do you believe, they are collecting it for Phoenix packs? There are reputation, fleet, ...
    Okay, but this is not a discussion about beginner-friendliness ... erm, beginner-xenophobia.
    seaofsorrows wrote: »
    The idea of taking things to Mark 21 isn't a solution that I personally like.

    In the other way, we can use the MK 15 DPS for MK 21 and nerf lower levels.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,919 Arc User
    edited February 2019
    Do I expect new players to know?

    No, I do not.

    Are there places for them to learn?

    Yes, there are. I tutor people in the upgrade system all the time and I am happy to do it.

    I am not disrespecting you or your idea, but in my personal opinion I simply don't like it. Any system is going to have a 'learning curve' and there is always going to be a most as well as a least efficient method of achieving the objective. I simply find the current system a little less convoluted then this alternative.

    I also acknowledge and accept that I might be in the minority as far as being satisfied with the current system.
    Insert witty signature line here.
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    What? I don't upgrade past Mark 12....you want to Nerf my TRIBBLE?? LOL!

    I don't take up my playtime to sit around messing with upgrading systems because somebody else decided that was necessary. LOL!
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited February 2019
    seaofsorrows wrote: »
    Do I expect new players to know?

    No, I do not.

    Are there places for them to learn?

    Yes, there are. I tutor people in the upgrade system all the time and I am happy to do it.

    I am not disrespecting you or your idea, but in my personal opinion I simply don't like it. Any system is going to have a 'learning curve' and there is always going to be a most as well as a least efficient method of achieving the objective. I simply find the current system a little less convoluted then this alternative.

    I also acknowledge and accept that I might be in the minority as far as being satisfied with the current system.

    It is funny, I hated upgrades in the beginning as well but after they integrated the options you mentioned down the road I don’t feel the upgrade system is that much of an issue anymore.

    “New” players are expected to log in daily for the next two years in light of the new endeavor system if they have interest in developing their characters to their maximum potential. I do not believe upgrades are a problem within such a timeframe. It only was back at the day when it was introduced and we had to cope with it simultaneously on the many chars we already had.
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  • villainvilevillainvile Member Posts: 64 Arc User
    seaofsorrows wrote: »
    Any system is going to have a 'learning curve'

    I think we need good tutorials ingame. NPCs in the academy. Each for every mechanic (Reputations, Doffs, Boffs, Admiralty, Traits, Mastery, ...). But it's only my opinon ...
  • wideningxgyrewideningxgyre Member Posts: 710 Arc User
    villainvile wrote: »
    seaofsorrows wrote: »
    Any system is going to have a 'learning curve'

    I think we need good tutorials ingame. NPCs in the academy. Each for every mechanic (Reputations, Doffs, Boffs, Admiralty, Traits, Mastery, ...). But it's only my opinon ...

    The tutorials in the game do what they need - they provide sufficient information on the mechanics of HOW to perform tasks for most things. What isn't in-game, and I'd argue shouldn't be, are strategies to optimize these mechanics. These strategies for doing things like upgrading from MK II, rather than MK XII, are a matter of opinion.

    While the game has to balance new players and ensure that they are not discouraged from playing, the idea that they ought to be competitive immediately with long-term players is false - whether it's acquisition of equipment (event or upgraded) or resources like EC or dil.

    The game provides Normal difficulty to complete missions and participate in queues. Mission reward quality equipment (MK XII very rare purple) is more than sufficient to complete all missions and most ADV queues.

    While I personally would prefer that RNG not be a part of the upgrade system, I don't necessarily see it as a problem that inhibits players, only an irritant (when you hit 50% probability and it still doesn't upgrade - which has happened to me numerous times). But, upgrade weekends, combined with Omega and Phoenix upgrades, more than makes up for it.

    Now, what I would suggest is that the game make clearer the EXISTENCE of things like Omegas, phoenix, and upgrade weekends (not when they will be, but that they even exist). When I first started playing, I was upset when I blew a ton of resources on upgrades just before an upgrade weekend - that, if I had known such things existed, I would have waited.
  • postagepaidpostagepaid Member Posts: 2,899 Arc User
    Why do we need more upgrade levels when there's not content currently in game (outside the elites and elitists) that requires you to upgrade at all.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,572 Arc User
    Leave it as is but when you get to Max Level (XV) by the second complete filling of the bar it is an automatic upgrade in Quality. So, for example, a VR at Level XV would get to Epic in four passes of the bar at maximum, but could be less depending on your luck.

    If the max an Item can get is UR then two passes only are required. Similarly, if less than VR, then two per Quality Level extra (Rare - 6, Uncommon - 8).
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • UnknownUnknown
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  • zerokillcf2011zerokillcf2011 Member Posts: 545 Arc User
    Nah. Generally, most players I think don't even really do much if any upgrading. Unless you are chasing DPS, I have no issues playing end game missions on any ship using Mk XII VR or rare. Heck, if I want to try something new and don't want to dump EC I often just buy Uncommon or Rare and consoles to match, and still have no issues on end game. For the number of players that CARE about having Mk XV Epic everything....they usually have enough resources to support that habit. OR like me, just spend the EC on someone else's work. I agree with other comments, if it isn't broke, why fix it? It WAS primarily designed to be a dilithium sink, NOT actually a way to help players. And for that, they achieved their goal AND helped out players. And now being able to re engineer stuff, you can buy Epic and not care about the mods, bc you can fix those cheaply enough.
  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,693 Arc User
    > I'm sure, that most of the STO players, or all of them, have been upset about the upgrade system.

    Nope, you're wrong.

    The upgrade system is fine and is more generous to players than many other MMOs.
  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 5,514 Arc User
    davefenestrator wrote: »
    > I'm sure, that most of the STO players, or all of them, have been upset about the upgrade system.

    Nope, you're wrong.

    The upgrade system is fine and is more generous to players than many other MMOs.

    I don't think I've met anyone that was 'upset' about the upgrade system to be honest. And yes, this game is very newbie friendly and generous. Dunno where OP got his opinions from.
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    If I hit Epic or Ultrarare, yahoo! If not, Purple is fine.
    I usually am buying from the exchange, though.

    Mark 12 is OK.

    I mean, even when Mark 12 Purple was top of the line, I could not afford to BUY it from players on the Exchange. So, I was playing with Mark 10 to Mark 11 to Mark 12 Blues and greens.

    Now with crafting, upgrading added to the game, players do not have to depend on the Ferengis on the Exchange. Unless you want to....because I can't stand crafting. LOL! I am only doing crafting with Omegas to get everything to Purple Omega Fragments. (Because I play a Ferengi once in a while, too)
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • gaevsmangaevsman Member Posts: 3,190 Arc User
    I agree with a crafting and upgrade tutorial.. as it was when memory alpha still existed... An R&D, Upgrade and Re-Ing. Tutorial would do wonders for new players..
    The forces of darkness are upon us!
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,919 Arc User
    leemwatson wrote: »
    davefenestrator wrote: »
    > I'm sure, that most of the STO players, or all of them, have been upset about the upgrade system.

    Nope, you're wrong.

    The upgrade system is fine and is more generous to players than many other MMOs.

    I don't think I've met anyone that was 'upset' about the upgrade system to be honest. And yes, this game is very newbie friendly and generous. Dunno where OP got his opinions from.

    I am not sure either, but perhaps the OP is just using old information.

    There used to be many more issues with the upgrade system, issues that over time.. were addressed. Before re-engineering, getting the mods you wanted was a real pain. The entire upgrade system just consisted of making items over and over and over hoping to get a good combination of mods.. and it was really frustrating.

    Then when you did get what you wanted, even on upgrade weekends.. it took so many superior kits that it was just massively expensive to upgrade. Phoenix kits cut that cost by 75%.

    If you're trying to get an Mark II up to Epic, the best kits are Omegas. While only available once per year, they're completely free if you're willing to go out and spend the time to get the shards.

    The introduction of Phoenix Kits and re-engineering have made the entire system much more friendly to the player. Yes, re-engineering is still a random roll, but it's no where near as tedious as crafting new items over and over due to 'bad mods.' I honestly think that the upgrade system right now is in a really good place.

    Personally, I am happy with it. The statement that 'most of the STO Player or all of them HAVE been upset about the upgrade system' is technically true. I was, at one point, unhappy with the system but I feel that over time the system has been fixed.
    Insert witty signature line here.
  • gaevsmangaevsman Member Posts: 3,190 Arc User
    > @seaofsorrows said:
    > leemwatson wrote: »
    >
    > davefenestrator wrote: »
    >
    > > I'm sure, that most of the STO players, or all of them, have been upset about the upgrade system.
    >
    > Nope, you're wrong.
    >
    > The upgrade system is fine and is more generous to players than many other MMOs.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > I don't think I've met anyone that was 'upset' about the upgrade system to be honest. And yes, this game is very newbie friendly and generous. Dunno where OP got his opinions from.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > I am not sure either, but perhaps the OP is just using old information.
    >
    > There used to be many more issues with the upgrade system, issues that over time.. were addressed. Before re-engineering, getting the mods you wanted was a real pain. The entire upgrade system just consisted of making items over and over and over hoping to get a good combination of mods.. and it was really frustrating.
    >
    > Then when you did get what you wanted, even on upgrade weekends.. it took so many superior kits that it was just massively expensive to upgrade. Phoenix kits cut that cost by 75%.
    >
    > If you're trying to get an Mark II up to Epic, the best kits are Omegas. While only available once per year, they're completely free if you're willing to go out and spend the time to get the shards.
    >
    > The introduction of Phoenix Kits and re-engineering have made the entire system much more friendly to the player. Yes, re-engineering is still a random roll, but it's no where near as tedious as crafting new items over and over due to 'bad mods.' I honestly think that the upgrade system right now is in a really good place.
    >
    > Personally, I am happy with it. The statement that 'most of the STO Player or all of them HAVE been upset about the upgrade system' is technically true. I was, at one point, unhappy with the system but I feel that over time the system has been fixed.

    Thats true, i don't even bother anymore, i craft what i want, then re-ing. The mods and once ready, i just upgrade Quality...
    The forces of darkness are upon us!
  • aeieaeie Member Posts: 57 Arc User
    I found the current system to be just fine, time consuming at times, but fine.
    No need to reinvent the wheel on this one IMO.
  • trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,839 Arc User
    where2r1 wrote: »
    What? I don't upgrade past Mark 12....you want to Nerf my TRIBBLE?? LOL!

    I don't take up my playtime to sit around messing with upgrading systems because somebody else decided that was necessary. LOL!

    Just do so on upgrade weekend,, build up stuff until then.
    Mm5NeXy.gif
This discussion has been closed.